Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[OniluapL]

I don't really want to get into this debate, but I'll give my two cents and drop it. Emma being the way she is in the type of series she's in is part of what makes the character great. Ignoring context and just saying "oh she's idealistic and naive" is a completely misguided way of looking at things.

By the way, I think you guys are spoiling things, though.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Veteran Jump Readers: "Why are all the modern series so edgy. Bring back light-hearted adventure manga and gag series."

Those Same People: "Why is the 14 year old protagonist unwilling to participate in literal genocide."

 

[Halloween]

By the way, I think you guys are spoiling things, though.

Indeed. Everyone, spoiler tag your stuff and save me the effort of manually doing it for you.

 

[Blink22]

Dont disrespect medaka like that. Medaka box is an masterpiece

I mean pulling a genre shift to battle early on and being near the bottom

 

[Stivie]

Yozakura has gained a twitter fanpage as well as Tokyo shinobi squad.

Mission: Yozakura Family (@YozakuraFamily) on Twitter

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Unless something changed in these bunch of last chapters of Neverland that i didn't read yet, i can't take the "but this is genocide!" argument any seriously when the author never even cared about trying to make demons look any good besides Mujika, why i should care?

 

[ChocoBar9]

Isn’t Deku consistently in second place in character polls, behind Bakugou?

Character polls have no basis on anything or how a character is precieved especially nowadays when the presence of spamming is out and the open. Yusuke never won a poll yet he's considered one of the best protagonist to come from Jump. Suguru ranked 7th in the Kinikuman poll yet he's considered the grandfather of the modern shounen protagonist.

Neverland and Stone are not traditional battle shounen so it’s not surprising that their main characters are different from the norm. In fact, the premises of those two series absolutely require intelligent MCs

Emma's intelligence is never really utilized in story that it defines her character or is a key to anything since things just work out for her for being special despite the fact that its the opposite of intelligence more so contrivance. Senkuu's intelligence is also just a plot device and is mostly just to explain how a substance work or to create something rather than ingenious problem solving or being a mediator hence why the extended cast exists to do his bidding or to handle things he would be unable to do.

He mostly resembles osamu & tsuna, I wouldnt say hes unique because he isnt the first "introvert/polite guy" in shonen thrope. it's just that we dont see it that often cuz it was overshadowed by the typical dumbass loud mc thropes

Tsuna was never intelligent and his whimpy nature was more or less treated like a joke than a serious flaw in his character its why his development was stunted. The whole point of Osamu is that he doesn't excel at anything he's just good a teamwork and doesn't back down since there's never really a point where he's unsure of himself or he gets downridden.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Unless something changed in these bunch of last chapters of Neverland that i didn't read yet, i can't take the "but this is genocide!" argument any seriously when the author never even cared about trying to make demons look any good besides Mujika, why i should care?

The problem is that there is no argument, you spend over 100 chapters showcasing that your adversaries are unfeeling monsters and because you met one who wasn't so bad it means they're all the same? Obviously what shaped Emma's views was seeing demons in the village but we as the reader never got to see it so there's no reason to care about them or their plight.

 

[Kaizoku_82]

I just hope this discussion doesn't go out of control like some here that start fine and end up on 8 paragraph posts per person, because it definitely sounds like it can get to that.

Spoiler: Neverland

I was 100% on Emma's side since the beginning, The demons showed that they can be civilized, and that they eat humans mostly out of need than of will (except for the aristocracy), the whole Mujika factor creates the possibility for demons to live without needing humans, that said, if you get rid of the aristocrats (I'm fine with killing those) who rule the world of demons by hunger and share Mujika's blood with the population, you can have a peaceful demon world where they don't need humans, thus, all the farm children can just go to the human side of the world, and both species can live separated and happy forever, without no one ever needing to interfere with the others, it's a logical, coherent and effective plan, much much better than genocide, I guess most people prefer Norman's plan because of a "it's cruel and gory, so it's more realistic" type of thing, or because they just imagine the demons as monsters or parasites with no chance of redemption (something that was proven wrong many times in this current arc).

Ok, I only read the first few chapters of World Trigger, but isn't Yuma supposed to be the main character, did the author change that or am I just getting it wrong??

 

[ShenGao]

You think being able to remember things is a superpower?

I'd say he's a whole lot more realistic than your average fiction scientist, considering most of them are creating time machines and stuff.

Counting every second for 3000+ years to know how much time passed is superhuman. In less than 1 year the numbers he'd have to remember would take longer to say than the second they are worth. 12.222.223 seconds, 12.222.224 seconds, 12.222.225 seconds etc.

 

[ChocoBar9]

something that was proven wrong many times in this current arc

No that's not the case at all.

Spoiler

Also good job forgetting that the demons use the distribution of cattle kids for their own economy so its not so much that they need it to sustain their being but also to turn a profit. The demons we've seen that are "good" generally don't see humans as anything but meat no difference with how humans see cattle and the only sympathetic demon shown in the story is Ashe's adoptive father who is just an obvious strawman so that's literally one example in 100+ chapters that demons can be good and it was used in a throwaway chapter the rest either don't care about how humans feel about being eaten or want to experience the thrill of the hunt again.

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Again, openly discussing spoilers is prohibited. There's a lot of that happening with TPN currently. I ask that you all please use spoiler tags when openly discussing a series plot.~ Buranchi

 

[El Jacco]

Ok, I only read the first few chapters of World Trigger, but isn't Yuma supposed to be the main character, did the author change that or am I just getting it wrong??

Yuma is a main character but it's Osamu that it's the protagonist of the story.

 

[Leoat12]

Some people already explained very well Emma's bad decisions, way too well sometimes. XD
Anyway, I will try be as broad and enigmatic as possible.
Why I think Norman is right? Simply because he knows more about the world and how terrible the demons are than Emma. Emma had a good life (within the limitation of the world, of course), good food most of the time, she was more pursued by humans than demons the entire story. Norman is hiding a lot, like, A LOT of things from her, we know more about the world they are than her. She met with good demons (the only ones it seems) and thinks all of them are manageable like them. It is crazy.

Spoiler

I bet Norman plan will go smoothly until she meddles in and makes someone (from the human side) die because of her, write that.

 

[LuckyJim]

Ok, I only read the first few chapters of World Trigger, but isn't Yuma supposed to be the main character, did the author change that or am I just getting it wrong??

They're both main character, but Osamu is the one who gets the most focus and his goals are basically what drive the plot. Yuma's mostly going along with him because for a while he had basically given up on life and is now looking for a purpose, and he respects Osamu enough to want to help him succeed..

 

[Rain Spectre]

No that's not the case at all.

Spoiler

Also good job forgetting that the demons use the distribution of cattle kids for their own economy so its not so much that they need it to sustain their being but also to turn a profit. The demons we've seen that are "good" generally don't see humans as anything but meat no difference with how humans see cattle and the only sympathetic demon shown in the story is Ashe's adoptive father who is just an obvious strawman so that's literally one example in 100+ chapters that demons can be good and it was used in a throwaway chapter the rest either don't care about how humans feel about being eaten or want to experience the thrill of the hunt again.

Spoiler

You're forgetting that it was explicitly confirmed all the hunters from the Goldy Pond Arc were members of the royal families running the whole operation, and the only other one whose wanted to return to the hunt was Son-Ju, who was around when the Promise was made. There's zero evidence that demon society is anything but normal outside of the ruling class.

Some people already explained very well Emma's bad decisions, way too well sometimes. XD
Anyway, I will try be as broad and enigmatic as possible.
Why I think Norman is right? Simply because he knows more about the world and how terrible the demons are than Emma. Emma had a good life (within the limitation of the world, of course), good food most of the time, she was more pursued by humans than demons the entire story. Norman is hiding a lot, like, A LOT of things from her, we know more about the world they are than her. She met with good demons (the only ones it seems) and thinks all of them are manageable like them. It is crazy.

Spoiler

I bet Norman plan will go smoothly until she meddles in and makes someone (from the human side) die because of her, write that.

Spoiler

Norman doesn't think what he's doing is right. This is half the point of his character post-return! He understands fully that what he's doing is wrong and will kill countless innocents, but feels he can't turn back after the things he's done.

 

[Leoat12]

Spoiler

Norman doesn't think what he's doing is right. This is half the point of his character post-return! He understands fully that what he's doing is wrong and will kill countless innocents, but feels he can't turn back after the things he's done.

Spoiler

That's what war is about, making tough decisions, most of them time choosing between what is least bad. It doesn't make his decision on going forward with his plan wrong given the context. He is doing what is necessary for the well being of his people like any other war.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Spoiler

That's what war is about, making tough decisions, most of them time choosing between what is least bad. It doesn't make his decision on going forward with his plan wrong given the context. He is doing what is necessary for the well being of his people like any other war.

Spoiler

I dunno, going forward with your plans for genocide when you know there's a more peaceful and considerably less bloody option purely because you can't see yourself going back isn't exactly a moral high-ground. Norman's actions are understandable from the perspective of his character, but they're hardly objectively right.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Spoiler

I dunno, going forward with your plans for genocide when you know there's a more peaceful and considerably less bloody option purely because you can't see yourself going back isn't exactly a moral high-ground. Norman's actions are understandable from the perspective of his character, but they're hardly objectively right.

Spoiler

Yeah except demons actually like eating humans its not just to keep their form so the only option is to essentially mindwash them and I guess their economy will just have to collapse now.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 10, 2019 ---

Spoiler

You're forgetting that it was explicitly confirmed all the hunters from the Goldy Pond Arc were members of the royal families running the whole operation, and the only other one whose wanted to return to the hunt was Son-Ju, who was around when the Promise was made. There's zero evidence that demon society is anything but normal outside of the ruling class.

Spoiler

We've seen nothing of the demon society that wasn't focused on the ruling class. What a pointless post.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Spoiler

Yeah except demons actually like eating humans its not just to keep their form so the only option is to essentially mindwash them and I guess their economy will just have to collapse now.

Spoiler

Again, exclusively regarding the ruling class. You realize there's meant to be a class discrepancy, right? Or do you think the entirety of demon society is just them? (There's a sociopolitical joke to be made)

Spoiler

We've seen nothing of the demon society that wasn't focused on the ruling class. What a pointless post.

Spoiler

We know and have seen that demon society isn't just them, though, which is enough to validate Emma's stance entirely. You can argue the pacing was tad rushed in places, but this stance portrays an incredibly narrow-minded view of the world.

 

[Mammo]

these last couple of posts, lol
if y'all this passionate about Neverland, just take you discussion to Neverland thread and spoil away

Someone noticed the translator/editor of Spy x Family was changed this chapter to those working on Double Taisei which I guess confirms Viz licensed it. Interesting they'd replace the translators as well as do that before announcing the license or even hosting it on their own site

this is unrelated but...
man, the fact that SPYxFAMILY being a webcomics that get immediate translation is amusing to me
there's no way for leaks to exist
and there's no way for speed scan group can hop on the hype

Still enjoying Yozakura, first chapter is still my favorite thus far tho its going very solid, crossing my fingers for this one. Really seems that Gondaira found his streak, would love to see other GFC winners that got axed in their first serialization to also come back and managing to make it.

don't count your chickens before they hatch
they haven't found success yet, look at double taisei

inb4 Yozakura gets the axe and Mitama becomes the next Jump mega hit.

if this does happen, i really hope we don't get Mitama vs Yozakura fan wars
we don't really need another Japan vs David or KnY vs Yuuna situation
theses titles are not competing with each other just because they started in the same round, there's enough space for everyone to succeed

Mitama is for me a poor man's Mieruko-chan and not even half as cute.

tbf, it's not aiming to be cute

Two writers? Lmao

a reminder Food Wars has "2" writers

This would be a cool thing to do each week! I will go with

1. Black Clover
2. Yozakura-san Chi no Daisakusen
3. Chainsaw Man

Honorable mentions: Samurai 8 and Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san

please don't

snip

welcome back ChocoBar9