Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

M3J

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I forgot who said this, but I kinda wanna continue the debate that strength isn't what makes one pirate king. The story has made that clear, but it's also made it clear strength would be important due to powerful enemies that will stand in the way.
 

Freid

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He still recruited and both were interested. Likely so was Whitebeard, lol.



Well, Sherlock approves of stating the obvious.

And only 4 are needed to head to Raftel. Road Poneglyphs.

We don't know if he had any, you're assuming.



Wrong again.

Kaido never said he was interested in being Pirate King, and neither did Big Mom for a time, but it's obvious and implied the Yonko are in it for the Poneglyphs.

Kaido tried to extrapolte the information for Raftel by interrogating Oden because he knows the secret. Kaido is literally saying if he can't get to Wano or acquire all Road Poneglyphs, he'll just get it from someone who has been there. It's implied, reading between the lines as it were.

And it doesn't contradict it, that's a fallacy, lol. Wanting a family doesn't impede on wanting to become Pirate King.



Lol, what contradictions?

The wanting of candy stops one from becoming Pirate King, good joke mate.
We know Roger and Whitebeard had Oden on their ship. However Roger knew how to read poneglyphs himself so we can assume he didn't need Oden for that, so Oden's benefit to him is unknown.

Apparently 9 poneglyphs have crucial information relating to Raftel but I'm fine only counting the 4 road ones. We still don't know the poneglyphs Whitebeard had since he apparently used Oden to read them. You were also the one that said whitebeard needed Oden to translate poneglyphs and now you're saying I'm assuming he had poneglyphs. But I'll go with that, if Whitebeard didn't have any poneglyphs then we don't know why Oden was on his ship and how it relates to him wanting to find Raftel. Just an example of your contradiction and how you argue yourself in circles to the point you almost debate yourself.

Oda made it a point to have Big Mom say she wanted to be pirate king. Kaidou will also have his own opportunity while Whitebeard died never having shown a desire to be pirate king. In all Whitebeard's opportunities to express wanting to pirate king, the only things he said he wanted was a family and wasn't interested in finding Raftel.

Not wanting to find Raftel contradicts a want to be pirate king but again nice strawman.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I forgot who said this, but I kinda wanna continue the debate that strength isn't what makes one pirate king. The story has made that clear, but it's also made it clear strength would be important due to powerful enemies that will stand in the way.
I think strength and finding Raftel are part and parcel but the latter is probably more important since Whitebeard wasn't considered Pirate King even though he was the strongest after Roger died.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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We know Roger and Whitebeard had Oden on their ship. However Roger knew how to read poneglyphs himself so we can assume he didn't need Oden for that, so Oden's benefit to him is unknown.
Oden was interested in the Poneglyph nevertheless, and Roger acquiring Oden stops others from competing.

Apparently 9 poneglyphs have crucial information relating to Raftel but I'm fine only counting the 4 road ones.
Well, only the Road Poneglyphs are absolute require to get to Raftel. The Road Poneglyphs lead to the 9 Poneglyphs which reveal the history of the world.

Whitebeard had since he apparently used Oden to read them. You were also the one that said whitebeard needed Oden to translate poneglyphs and now you're saying I'm assuming he had poneglyphs.
You can acquire a translator in advance before acquiring a Poneglyph. Whitebeard may have needed Oden, but it doesn't require having a Poneglyph initially to still need Oden. Acquiring Oden with or without a Poneglyph still puts him in a good position.

But I'll go with that, if Whitebeard didn't have any poneglyphs then we don't know why Oden was on his ship and how it relates to him wanting to find Raftel. Just an example of your contradiction and how you argue yourself in circles to the point you almost debate yourself.
Eh? That's not a contradiction. Oden was on their ships because he had interest in Poneglyhs. These were people looking to get to Raftel.

Oda made it a point to have Big Mom say she wanted to be pirate king. Kaidou will also have his own opportunity
So, you're saying that the fact Yonko still Poneglyph from each other is not proof enough that they're trying to be Pirate King?

The fact Kaido tortured Oden to get the information from Raftel isn't proof? Well I can't say I'm surprised at this response at this point.

Not wanting to find Raftel contradicts a want to be pirate king but again nice strawman.
I don't know if time is a concept you understand. He did things consistent with the goal until Roger became King and he then lost interest.
 

Freid

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Oden was interested in the Poneglyph nevertheless, and Roger acquiring Oden stops others from competing.



Well, only the Road Poneglyphs are absolute require to get to Raftel. The Road Poneglyphs lead to the 9 Poneglyphs which reveal the history of the world.



You can acquire a translator in advance before acquiring a Poneglyph. Whitebeard may have needed Oden, but it doesn't require having a Poneglyph initially to still need Oden. Acquiring Oden with or without a Poneglyph still puts him in a good position.



Eh? That's not a contradiction. Oden was on their ships because he had interest in Poneglyhs. These were people looking to get to Raftel.



So, you're saying that the fact Yonko still Poneglyph from each other is not proof enough that they're trying to be Pirate King?

The fact Kaido tortured Oden to get the information from Raftel isn't proof? Well I can't say I'm surprised at this response at this point.



I don't know if time is a concept you understand. He did things consistent with the goal until Roger became King and he then lost interest.
Oden's benefit to Roger was to minimize competition? Right. I genuinely laughed out loud. Couldn't reach as far as this man if I tried.

Anyway everything else is circular. I don't feel like dumping any more time explaining something Oda's already told us explicitly through the mouth of Whitebeard himself.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Oden's benefit to Roger was to minimize competition? Right. I genuinely laughed out loud. Couldn't reach as far as this man if I tried.
Lol, laughing at the fact that it does achieve that when there aren't any people able to read the Poneglyphs? That's like saying 1+1=2, and finding that funny, lol.

Anyway everything else is circular. I don't feel like dumping any more time explaining something Oda's already told us explicitly through the mouth of Whitebeard himself.
Read between the lines, lol. Actions speak as explicit as words, just have to be able to comprehend it. Not everything needs be explicitly stated unless one is incapable of reading between the lines.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
@Freid

Lol, like I said, inability to read between the line disables being able to understand the Manga.



I stated that Marco and co. were defeated by Blackbeard despite the fact it wasn't explicitly stated because actions hinted at it.

Things do not need be explicitly stated to be true, just requires being able to deduce and make sense of things, lol.



Something I stated in 2015 explicitly, much earlier than that even, but this is the only one I can find. Proven 6 months later in 2016 in chapter 820.

Things don't need be explicitly stated buddy. :)
 

Freid

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Lol, laughing at the fact that it does achieve that when there aren't any people able to read the Poneglyphs? That's like saying 1+1=2, and finding that funny, lol.



Read between the lines, lol. Actions speak as explicit as words, just have to be able to comprehend it. Not everything needs be explicitly stated unless one is incapable of reading between the lines.
The country of Ohara were studying poneglyphs for centuries and some were actually travelling looking for them. But I've long realized you weren't too clever and argue with your fingers in your ears. Was fun for a while though.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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The country of Ohara were studying poneglyphs for centuries and some were actually travelling looking for them. But I've long realized you weren't too clever and argue with your fingers in your ears. Was fun for a while though.
Lol, and you haven't said anything clever or truthful.

Also, that's a lie lol. They weren't studying it for centuries, otherwise, they'd have been wiped out centuries ago. Good one buddy.



The people of Ohara had no idea what they were looking for was related to One Piece, thus the fact Robin is surprised that Roger had interest in them.

If the people of Ohara knew it was related to One Piece, Robin would have known too because she had all the information Ohara had regarding Poneglyphs. Again, you only use fallacies and lies.
 

Freid

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Lol, and you haven't said anything clever or truthful.

Also, that's a lie lol. They weren't studying it for centuries, otherwise, they'd have been wiped out centuries ago. Good one buddy.



The people of Ohara had no idea what they were looking for was related to One Piece, thus the fact Robin is surprised that Roger had interest in them.

If the people of Ohara knew it was related to One Piece, Robin would have known too because she had all the information Ohara had regarding Poneglyphs. Again, you only use fallacies and lies.
Then they were studying it for decades. Point is they were studying it and there were some actively looking for it, meaning this 'laughing at the fact that it does achieve that when there aren't any people able to read the Poneglyph' is wrong. But this is just an example of how you miss points because you aren't too clever. So it's usually interesting to me whenever you try super hard. But anyway I did say I was done before and if experience talking to you has taught me anything, it's that you have to get the last word as all children must so I bow out.
 
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Hannibal Psyche

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Then they were studying it for decades. Point is they were studying it and they were some were actively looking for it, meaning this 'laughing at the fact that it does achieve that when there aren't any people able to read the Poneglyph' is wrong. But this is just an example of how you miss points because you aren't too clever. So it's usually interesting to me whenever you try super hard. But anyway I did say I was done before and if experience talking to you has taught me anything, it's that you're gonna get the last word as all children must so I bow out.
Lol, so you've gone from centuries to decades, quite the jump.

Also, if they were affiliated with the Pirates, why do the Pirates now need Robin? Did the WG defeat the Yonko and steal their scholars? Lol?

But this is just an example of how you miss points because you aren't too clever.
Ah, that's why you said:
Buggy became a pirate with no intention on becoming pirate king.
stand corrected, though
One Piece didn't exist when Whitebeard became a pirate.
We've seen Shiki propose partnerships with both WB and Roger to conquer the world, and we know Roger found Raftel.
Whoever reaches the last island would probably need someone who could read poneglyphs to reveal the information.
Since Roger found Raftel, we know he was actively trying to be pirate king since it's probably not something you can stumble upon.
A lot of fallacies and inconsistent things that don't line up with the Manga. I guess you are very intelligent for spewing things that aren't true, lol.

You said "One Piece didn't exist when Whitebeard became a Pirate". You do know Poneglyphs which lead to One Piece are over 800 years old right? Whitebeard hasn't been a pirate for 800+ years.

It may not have been called One Piece then, but that's like saying that because no one had identified Mount Everest at one point and then named it, it didn't exist. Anyway, you've really been enlightening. I will strive for this intelligence you speak of.
 
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M3J

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I think strength and finding Raftel are part and parcel but the latter is probably more important since Whitebeard wasn't considered Pirate King even though he was the strongest after Roger died.
I'd disagree. Buggy is weak, but even he could become pirate king because of how strong his crew is, and if Buggy's sneaky enough to get to the Poneglyphs OR somehow learn where Raftel is and get there. Strength wouldn't be important if there weren't strong people standing in the way of pirates who want to get to Raftel, whereas Raftel is important as nearly every single character says or implies that to become pirate king, one must get there.

Again, no one challenged Usopp saying Luffy didn't need to fight Kaidou or Big Mom, he could just get a rubbing of the Poneglyphs. We don't even know if Roger fought Kaidou and Big Mom, just that he was somehow able to get close to the Poneglyphs and hear their voices. If no one stood in Luffy's way, then he wouldn't need to be strong at all to become the Pirate King, he'd just need to reach Raftel.
Then they were studying it for decades. Point is they were studying it and there were some actively looking for it, meaning this 'laughing at the fact that it does achieve that when there aren't any people able to read the Poneglyph' is wrong. But this is just an example of how you miss points because you aren't too clever. So it's usually interesting to me whenever you try super hard. But anyway I did say I was done before and if experience talking to you has taught me anything, it's that you have to get the last word as all children must so I bow out.
Didn't Robin's flashback indicate the Ohara scholars were studying Poneglyphs for decades? Or was that the Void Century? Either way, one of the scholars brought up decades, if not centuries of work being destroyed by the fire, if I recall correctly.

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-397-page-4.html
Though that's ambiguous. Haven't found anything after that, but you can start from beginning of flashback if you want, although proof likely won't make HP change his opinions.
 

Freid

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I'd disagree. Buggy is weak, but even he could become pirate king because of how strong his crew is, and if Buggy's sneaky enough to get to the Poneglyphs OR somehow learn where Raftel is and get there. Strength wouldn't be important if there weren't strong people standing in the way of pirates who want to get to Raftel, whereas Raftel is important as nearly every single character says or implies that to become pirate king, one must get there.

Again, no one challenged Usopp saying Luffy didn't need to fight Kaidou or Big Mom, he could just get a rubbing of the Poneglyphs. We don't even know if Roger fought Kaidou and Big Mom, just that he was somehow able to get close to the Poneglyphs and hear their voices. If no one stood in Luffy's way, then he wouldn't need to be strong at all to become the Pirate King, he'd just need to reach Raftel.

Didn't Robin's flashback indicate the Ohara scholars were studying Poneglyphs for decades? Or was that the Void Century? Either way, one of the scholars brought up decades, if not centuries of work being destroyed by the fire, if I recall correctly.

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-397-page-4.html
Though that's ambiguous. Haven't found anything after that, but you can start from beginning of flashback if you want, although proof likely won't make HP change his opinions.
True, Buggy gets carried by his crew pretty hard so theoretically it's possible for him to be pirate king if all the stars align in his favor. As far as we know, strength is useful but might not really be bible scripture. In the case of Luffy though, I honestly think he's gonna be the strongest to maintain the reputation of pirate king but who he fights is debatable. I think he's gonna fight Kaidou with some of the supernova and is only gonna solo BB then the WG to be pirate king.

I haven't read the Ohara incident in a while but yeah they were likely studying it for at least decades. I wonder if any of the travelling team ever met Roger cause I think they would have definitely been of some interest to him being that they could share some of their research.
 
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Hannibal Psyche

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As far as we know, strength is useful but might not really be bible scripture.


I'm not sure why you downplay strength as you're obviously so well read in One Piece. I'm sure you recall what Rayleigh said without me putting up this panel. Rayleigh puts emphasis on strength asking if he can do this because the enemies in the Grand Line will be strong when he said he wanted to be Pirate King.

Buggy's function in the story is more or less that of a gag. He could become King theoretically without being strong and by being carried, but it's not realistic. Nothing Buggy has achieved has been from strength, his purpose is to lighten the mood of the story and the seriousness of the story, thus the reason he's likely a clown in the story.
 
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M3J

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True, Buggy gets carried by his crew pretty hard so theoretically it's possible for him to be pirate king if all the stars align in his favor. As far as we know, strength is useful but might not really be bible scripture. In the case of Luffy though, I honestly think he's gonna be the strongest to maintain the reputation of pirate king but who he fights is debatable. I think he's gonna fight Kaidou with some of the supernova and is only gonna solo BB then the WG to be pirate king.

I haven't read the Ohara incident in a while but yeah they were likely studying it for at least decades. I wonder if any of the travelling team ever met Roger cause I think they would have definitely been of some interest to him being that they could share some of their research.
Yep, and his crew is likely formidable as even Whitebeard preferred to ally with Buggy, and the World Government made Buggy a shichibukai. It's not necessarily impossible for Buggy to become pirate king, and whether or not the world thinks he's strong (I doubt they will), they'd still consider him pirate king, as he's the captain.

LUffy won't be the strongest to maintain the reputation of pirate king, but he will be strong enough to deal with enemies that stand in his way. He said it himself that being the pirate king means being free, and that he can't be free if he can't deal with enemies. He can become pirate king without fighting anyone, but that's not what Luffy wants to do, and he's made it clear that he thinks he has to be strong enough.

Given OP, they most likely did meet.
 

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I have to respectfully disagree. Luffys desire to be pirate king is totally vague. So I think it's about being free to go anywhere and do what he wants, but to do that you have to be the strongest and right now he wants to go to Raftel which means he also has to be the strongest (since kaidou BM BB and supernovas want the same thing). I think of it like king of the hill, nobody even knows why they want to go to Raftel but it's been agreed that only the best can make it. Actually bege is pretty similar to luffy in this way, no reason for doing what he does. Anyways for the straw hats all roads lead to Raftel somehow
 

M3J

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How is it vague? You just said it, and he's said it as well, especially to SHakky.

And being the strongest isn't necessarily important, winning. LUffy could be weaker and still win because of his willpower and/or strategy, for example. But yeah, LUffy wants to be the strongest because of the people that would stand in his way of being free in his quest or after becoming the pirate king, like the Marines or Yonkou. That's probably one of the reasons why he wants to fight SHanks
 

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The person who wrote on the Frybell at Skypiea was Oden as Roger couldn't read or write in the language as Rayleigh stated, he could just magically understand it due to VOAT.

Had Oden not written on the Frybell, Robin wouldn't have known before hand how important it was for her to stick with the SHs in her journey to find the truth, and vice versa, Robin's importance to Luffy and his goal to be Pirate King.
  1. Yes he can understand the Poneglyph, or should be able to, Robin being in his crew gives him a monopoly on finding Raftel and One Piece. Anyone who acquires Robin (or Oden) would increase the threat of the competition.
  2. Also, with her intelligence, Luffy might not understand the importance unless someone with an understanding of history simplifies it all for him.

This should drive home how important the Poneglyph are regarding the goal to find Raftel and obtain the One Piece truly is (aka become Pirate King). The Poneglyph are so important the Emperors would do anything to acquire them and we see Kaido go as far as torture Oden for the information on the Poneglyph as he's one of those who went to Raftel; Kaido more or less aimed to become Pirate King by not even getting to Raftel.
 

M3J

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I hope we find out soon if Roger ever fought Big Mom and Kaidou. All Big Mom ever said was that Roger somehow learned what the Poneglyphs said thanks to his Voice of All Things ability, but she never implied losing to him in a fight. Same could be said when it came to Kaidou - Roger didn't fight him. If he didn't fight either or both, then that would prove that strength or beating the Yonkou aren't prerequisites to becoming the Pirate King.
 

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Pirate King is the one with most freedom on the seas. And you cant have most freedom on the seas unless you are the most powerful on the seas.That's it.
 
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