Character Will Yukimura leave??

[-Ken-]

Niou can copy anyone. He doesn't need skills. He just imitates it.

No, he need to have enough skill.

He can't use ZSS back in National. He also can't use Saiki+Hyakuren at the same in the National or even at his latest G10 matxh. The perfect illusion he have done so far are Shiraishi and Kabaji. Never Tezuka.

He's also limited by his illusion. He can only use Kabaji strength when he's in Kabaji illusion. He can't mix and match at will.

 

[Kaoz]

How the hell he copied Kabaji's strength then?

How do you want to know that his strength isn't simply on that level and he tones it down when copying other players? Konomi himself said in PP4 that the illusion is only an optical thing, so centering any explanations around that makes more sense in my opinion.

 

[Phantron]

How do you want to know that his strength isn't simply on that level and he tones it down when copying other players? Konomi himself said in PP4 that the illusion is only an optical thing, so centering any explanations around that makes more sense in my opinion.

By all accounts illusionless Niou is a very weak player. I don't see why there's any reason to believe he was holding back his base strength when base Niou is pretty much no threat to anyone that matters. They even said Niou was only able to have the resolve to continously use Tezuka Phantom because he copied Tezuka, including his willpower. That is, normal Niou lacks the willpower to be willing to sacrifice his arm just for a victory (which is probably the smart thing to do). Now he probably won't get the complete stats of someone he copies, but as far as we know Irie is the person with the best mental stats so far, not counting any TnK tier characters who he can't copy anyway (his copy of Tezuka sure doesn't come with TnK), so that'd have to be his best bet if he was going to play Yukimura, a person who you clearly need strong mental stats to deal with.

 

[floman]

By all accounts illusionless Niou is a very weak player. I don't see why there's any reason to believe he was holding back his base strength when base Niou is pretty much no threat to anyone that matters. They even said Niou was only able to have the resolve to continously use Tezuka Phantom because he copied Tezuka, including his willpower. That is, normal Niou lacks the willpower to be willing to sacrifice his arm just for a victory (which is probably the smart thing to do). Now he probably won't get the complete stats of someone he copies, but as far as we know Irie is the person with the best mental stats so far, not counting any TnK tier characters who he can't copy anyway (his copy of Tezuka sure doesn't come with TnK), so that'd have to be his best bet if he was going to play Yukimura, a person who you clearly need strong mental stats to deal with.

For Kabaji it could have been the change in power that overwhelmed the G10 players. He could have been holding back strength as Tezuka and as Kaoz mentioned in a different thread converted his technique into power. I think Irie would be a good match for Yukimura, just like Tanegamishima.

I had a question that I wanted to post in a thread about Yukimura. Would Atobe Kingdom work against Yukimura? Would Yukimura be able to find a counter against Atobe Kingdom? If this has already been answered please direct me to the thread. Thanks.

 

[jimtors]

Yukimura is the probably the strongest player in the series.. why take him out? IF i write for his character, there so many things i can do with it.. ^__^

He's my favorite character too.. Who i'm going to watch now??? This like killing Itachi in Naruto.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Phantron]

For Kabaji it could have been the change in power that overwhelmed the G10 players. He could have been holding back strength as Tezuka and as Kaoz mentioned in a different thread converted his technique into power. I think Irie would be a good match for Yukimura, just like Tanegamishima.

I had a question that I wanted to post in a thread about Yukimura. Would Atobe Kingdom work against Yukimura? Would Yukimura be able to find a counter against Atobe Kingdom? If this has already been answered please direct me to the thread. Thanks.

Based on the description Atobe Kingdom cannot be defended. The only way to stop it is to move the ball somehow (Zone, Phantom) so it can't hit the blind spot. Or if you're Oni and Byodouin who cannot be seen in the first place. That said, the ability to move the ball is really trivial in POT for the tier of players you'd expect to use AK on. It is the ability to move the ball in a meaningful way (Tezuka Zone) that is hard. But against AK you have to do is move the ball a little bit and then it'll stop it from hitting the blind spot. Of course in that case you're hitting a pretty weak shot for Atobe to return so you'll have other problems but it's still better than outright giving up a point.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

Thought about this some more. It's clear Atobe can use his vision on the court or on the ball, but not both at at the same time. Otherwise in the game against Ryoma he could've used his vision on the ball (to neutralize the spin) and then use WoI again to hit it to the blind spot and then he can't lose. This clearly didn't happen.

So when you see Atobe starts using AK you got to put some kind of spin on the ball that'd cause it to move when returned (which shouldn't be hard for a high tier player). Now, the spin you put is unlikely to be anything useful unless you've previous experience doing Tezuka Zone type technique, but it should prevent AK from hitting your blind spot. Hopefully you can drag the game out until Atobe can't continue using AK for whatever reason, since you're pretty much in a purely defensive mode until AK runs out.

 

[Ninomiya]

For some reason, Konomi has handed drastic improvement to Atobe and well... Little improvement to Yukimura.
So realistically, Atobe VS Yukimura will go either way. Its no longer guaranteed Atobe will lose.
Due to them having equal Technique, Yukimura won't be able to just out-rally him anymore.

So Atobe is probably going to take Yukimura's service game.
But Atobe hasn't been able to hit AK on his serve, nor could he do it on his serve with WoI.
So Yukimura due to having a higher Mental can begin to breakdown Atobe's senses with long rallies on Atobe's serve.
For some reason, having slightly higher Power is irrelevant when facing Yukimura so Atobe's +0.5 in Power which is what separates the two in total stats won't make a big difference.

Atobe is at the level of Yukimura and Sanada now though. That 6 in Technique really can't be overlooked.

 

[Bowser]

Yukimura says Niou can copy him back in POT

When did he ever say that? O_O

 

[Ninomiya]

When did he ever say that? O_O

"He told me he can copy either you or me" --Yukimura to Sanada
(during Singles 2 at the Nationals Final)

 

[Phantron]

Atobe can use AK for an entire set in the doubles match, so if we're talking about a standard 1 set match there's no limitation to the amount of times Atobe can use AK. It doesn't matter even if Yukimura's slightly better at rallying. As long as he doesn't score winners every time it wouldn't mater because we know hitting the ball to a specific spot is pretty darn trivial for guys of their level, so Atobe can still hit the ball to the spot he sees with AK even while out-rallied and then he'd score by definition. Although Yukimura can attempt to also put Zone like spin on the ball, the fact that he also has no previous experience with these techniques means it'd be for purely defensive purposes only and it's hard to see him outlasting Atobe either.

The only uncertainty is can Yukimura's mental techs work on Atobe before he gets totally destroyed by AK. Since Atobe recently overcome Mental Assassin, I don't think that's likely. If we go by the original premise that Yukimura needs a mental edge over the opponent, then this is impossible because he can't have any mental edge while at best fighting to stay alive against AK.

 

[Kaoz]

"He told me he can copy either you or me" --Yukimura to Sanada
(during Singles 2 at the Nationals Final)

Link to the page, please.

 

[Ninomiya]

Atobe can use AK for an entire set in the doubles match, so if we're talking about a standard 1 set match there's no limitation to the amount of times Atobe can use AK.

This is based on what btw?

It doesn't matter even if Yukimura's slightly better at rallying. As long as he doesn't score winners every time it wouldn't mater because we know hitting the ball to a specific spot is pretty darn trivial for guys of their level, so Atobe can still hit the ball to the spot he sees with AK even while out-rallied and then he'd score by definition.

When underpressure, Atobe's AK didn't work against Irie.
Unless Atobe can get a good foothold or get himself stuck into the rally, he can't spam AK any longer.
Since Atobe damaged his foot, he couldn't use AK. Now the foot has ZERO to do with your eye-sight, however it meant Irie was able to completely out-rally him.
Which means, just like WoI, if Atobe is being completely out-rallied, he can't hit AK.

Although Yukimura can attempt to also put Zone like spin on the ball, the fact that he also has no previous experience with these techniques means it'd be for purely defensive purposes only and it's hard to see him outlasting Atobe either.

Why would Yuki be able to hit TZ? TZ had nothing to do with stats, its just one of Tezuka's logic defying moves.

The only uncertainty is can Yukimura's mental techs work on Atobe before he gets totally destroyed by AK. Since Atobe recently overcome Mental Assassin, I don't think that's likely. If we go by the original premise that Yukimura needs a mental edge over the opponent, then this is impossible because he can't have any mental edge while at best fighting to stay alive against AK.

This isn't based off much again.
Yukimura and Atobe have equal Technique so I doubt the rally is going to be out of Yukimura's hands.
The premise that Yukimura needs a mental edge over the opponent is now irrelevant, since Fuwa who had equal stats to him in Mental got raped by Yips.
Yukimura's Mental is just totally superior Atobe's anyway.

I'm pretty certain that Atobe isn't able to just spam AK at all given moments. Otherwise 10ballstrike is irrelevant against him since he can hit a shot where Byoudouin and Oni are frozen.
So its stupid to think he can just spam it for an entire set.
Also, AK seems to only be used when Atobe gets into great positions and not just ANY position.
Lastly, there's no requirement for winning or losing against Yukimura to be yipped. There are various ways to get caught in yips.

This match is 50/50.

Link to the page, please.

My bad, I'm thinking of the anime in OVA Episode 23.

 

[Phantron]

Atobe won a set against Mouri and Ochi while Niou was crawling on the floor. I assume that meant he just spammed AK in that match. If he didn't, it's actually more incredible as that means he just flat out rallied two high tier players by himself without the usage of any special moves. Consider Yukimura probably cannot outrally Fuwa, there's no way he'd outrally Atobe who managed to win a set while playing 1on2. Yes he had Niou helping out with the vision, but I'm guessing that's because you need two sets of eyes to see two people's blindspots. In a 1on1 Atobe would be fine with just his own eyes against Yukimura. AK probably had some kind of limitation on its usage early on, but at its current stage we know Atobe can at least win a set with AK (or without, which would be even crazier) in a 1on2.

Now of course Yukimura has a killer mental tech on his side, but Atobe recently overcome a mental tech so I don't see it can be certain whether Yukimura's mental tech works on him. What is certain is that if yips/dream didn't work, Yukimura has no answer to AK.

AK won't work on Oni or Byodouin because both of them plays with a cloud of smoke as shown in their flashback. One would assume this cloud of smoke would obstruct Atobe's vision and prevent him from seeing their blind spots. Konomi is reasonably thorough when it comes to his uber characters, as without the vision impairing effect, it's indeed quite possible for Atobe to beat those two guys. In fact, without this effect both of them could lose to just plain old World of Ice.

 

[Kaoz]

Niou gathered Ochi's and Mouri's data while lying behind the net, then Atobe used that data to score.

 

[Phantron]

Niou gathered Ochi's and Mouri's data while lying behind the net, then Atobe used that data to score.

But that's because he had two opponents and it stands to reason he can't see both opponent's blindspot at the same time so he needed an extra pair of eyes feeding him information. He was able to see through Mach Serve with AK, so I think he'll be fine in any 1on1 situation unless the opponent has some kind of supernatural aura to obstruct vision.

 

[jimtors]

I think Yukimura will always beat Atobe regardless of the AK or not.. ^__^

 

[LetalHawk]

Atobe won a set against Mouri and Ochi while Niou was crawling on the floor. I assume that meant he just spammed AK in that match. If he didn't, it's actually more incredible as that means he just flat out rallied two high tier players by himself without the usage of any special moves. Consider Yukimura probably cannot outrally Fuwa, there's no way he'd outrally Atobe who managed to win a set while playing 1on2. Yes he had Niou helping out with the vision, but I'm guessing that's because you need two sets of eyes to see two people's blindspots. In a 1on1 Atobe would be fine with just his own eyes against Yukimura. AK probably had some kind of limitation on its usage early on, but at its current stage we know Atobe can at least win a set with AK (or without, which would be even crazier) in a 1on2.

Now of course Yukimura has a killer mental tech on his side, but Atobe recently overcome a mental tech so I don't see it can be certain whether Yukimura's mental tech works on him. What is certain is that if yips/dream didn't work, Yukimura has no answer to AK.

AK won't work on Oni or Byodouin because both of them plays with a cloud of smoke as shown in their flashback. One would assume this cloud of smoke would obstruct Atobe's vision and prevent him from seeing their blind spots. Konomi is reasonably thorough when it comes to his uber characters, as without the vision impairing effect, it's indeed quite possible for Atobe to beat those two guys. In fact, without this effect both of them could lose to just plain old World of Ice.

Oni and Byodouin have unmesureable stats. Atobe has measurable stats. They don't just need to create that cloud of smoke to win. Altough it will always be if they play all out. They just have to score winners on Atobe and Atobe has no chance of getting to Kijin!Oni and Byodouin shots. Eventually, he'd be out of stamina due to being overwhelmed by their power. If he could see, he'd be to slow to reach their shots, and bad positioning doesn't even allow him to hit AK because it requires huge focus on the ball to be able to use it.

Eventually, Oni and Byodouin will overwhelm Atobe after scoring constant winners on him. If he can see, it doesn't matter because he doesn't have neither skill or speed to get to their shots. And we're talking about two guys who are the top of the U-17 and one of them has inter-dimensional powers.

Atobe would be their little bitch. Regardless he could see or not.

 

[Ninomiya]

Atobe won a set against Mouri and Ochi while Niou was crawling on the floor. I assume that meant he just spammed AK in that match.

He won a set did you say?
*FACEPALM*.
Atobe was in Synchro, the added boost from being in Synchro means all your weaknesses and blindspots on the court become nearly entirely minimized.
And you share vision so you can see everything another guy on the court can see.
Did you seriously think Atobe naturally beat Ochi/Mouri in the last set by himself? Do you not understand how crucial a part of the story you missed Phantron?
Like... You missed an entirely plot twist.

If he didn't, it's actually more incredible as that means he just flat out rallied two high tier players by himself without the usage of any special moves. Consider Yukimura probably cannot outrally Fuwa, there's no way he'd outrally Atobe who managed to win a set while playing 1on2. Yes he had Niou helping out with the vision, but I'm guessing that's because you need two sets of eyes to see two people's blindspots. In a 1on1 Atobe would be fine with just his own eyes against Yukimura. AK probably had some kind of limitation on its usage early on, but at its current stage we know Atobe can at least win a set with AK (or without, which would be even crazier) in a 1on2.

Irrelevant. The boost from Synchro is too large to account for Atobe out-rallying two guys with higher stats than him.
It was entirely due to Synchro considering Ochi/Mouri ate Atobe alive in the 2VS1 without Synchro.
Its illogical to think Atobe could do it naturally.

ALSO, there has never been a Technique used in Synchro in the series thus far. Atobe left Synchro to hit AK+WoI at the end since you can see the aura is removed from him.

AK won't work on Oni or Byodouin because both of them plays with a cloud of smoke as shown in their flashback. One would assume this cloud of smoke would obstruct Atobe's vision and prevent him from seeing their blind spots. Konomi is reasonably thorough when it comes to his uber characters, as without the vision impairing effect, it's indeed quite possible for Atobe to beat those two guys. In fact, without this effect both of them could lose to just plain old World of Ice.

No. X-Ray's can still be conducted in smoke, so Atobe's illogical AK shouldn't stop because Oni and Byoudouin cause smoke/steam
.
They would just out-rally Atobe. I already proved to you that if Atobe is out-rallied like against Irie, he can't spam AK at all.
A hurt foot, does NOT affect your vision in PoT.
It meant Atobe couldn't rally as well as he was before, so he couldn't rally as well.

Also, considering Atobe wasn't the MSer chosen to face the Top20 but Yuki was, it means in the Shuffles he didn't do aswell as Yukimura.
By a good margin.
If AK can be spammed like you believe based on nothing,
why didn't Atobe spam it at the start of the 1st Set on his serve?
Since if he can spam it, then he may aswell use it in Doubles as its a spammable move.
Its clearly not spammable though. He has to focus to hit it.

 

[Sai]

No. X-Ray's can still be conducted in smoke, so Atobe's illogical AK shouldn't stop because Oni and Byoudouin cause smoke/steam.

The literal translation of the kanji that was used for Insight back then was Vision Power. The idea is that Atobe can see his opponents and analyze their weakness. Since AK is an evolution of Insight, it's pretty much the same thing, just at a higher level. In other words, it's not literally x-ray vision, but rather the x-ray is a visualization of his powers, he still has to be able to see his opponent in order to use it, just like before.

 

[Phantron]

Synchro improves coordination but it does not improve your indiivdual skill. When the Golden Pair first used it, Kikumaru stopped the game when Oishi can no longer hit the ball. That means they'd have still lost the game even in synchro because one of the two players can no longer play. Note that Synchro does not allow either of them to return a serve neither of them can return normally in the same game. In Atobe's his case, his synchro partner cannot physically play the game. He can feed him vision/weakness info but ultimately it's still 1on2. Atobe at the very least have to be able to return all the shots by himself in a 1on2 because Niou sure isn't going to be able to help him there.

Oni and Byodouin are strong but they're not going to be able to hit winners on every rally against any arbitary opponent. At the very least we know Oni can't do that to Tanegashima (otherwise the notion he can't beat Tanegashima is absurd). Now Oni seems to be able to hit winners on every rally against pre TnK Kintaro, but I think Atobe's stat is a bit higher than pre TnK Kintaro. The point is somewhere between Kintaro and Tanegashima's stat you'd definitely be able to stop either of those two from hitting instant winners. Now, of course both of them are still going to win a rally in the long run, but AK doesn't have any predictable cue, because people don't know where their own blind spot is so what appaers to be a weak shot can actually be AK, or not at all. So far when AK is used, the opponent can only realize it's been used by the fact that he cannot reach a seemingly easy to hit shot. Assuming Oni and Byodouin doesn't specialize in vision they'd be no different there.

I do think Atobe actually has x-ray powers (says he can see people's skeletons) but the smoke covering around Oni and Byodouin is likewise reality defying and since they're stronger players, it'd be reasonable to assume their anti-vision properties at least can cancel out Atobe's supernatural vision if not outright obscure it. I'm sure both of them can hit a powerful shot that just kills Atobe outright and wins the game, but if you're talking about rallying, you can't beat Atobe Kingdom unless you've something that blocks Atobe's vision.