-Hours? Says who? I could say Wahl overwhelming Minerva happened "hours" after he was enchanted too lol.
-No, he said that about Historia. God Serena has no living magic in him, so he's weaker. The other two were similarly noted not to have living magic.
-So? Ajeel matched Erza's strength too. On top of that Wahl absorbs his lightning, so any damage from physical strength would be more than made up for.
-Kagura doesn't have better endurance than Elfman, she's tiers below. Even if she did, she didn't endure Yagdo, she no-sold it, it was pure durability.
-No, she was playing with Lucy, that's why she went dominatrix on Loke lol. It was all a joke to her.
-Kyoka is weak compared to Elfman, yes. That aside, it simply shows that Minerva's abilities, teleportation, etc, are pointless, you just a punch to beat her.
-No, Elfman isn't Erza, he is far above her Tartaros self. And beating a significantly weaker Wahl, a character who's pretty much nothing to Laxus in the first place without nerfs, is pretty much worthless compared to Elfman beating an actual spriggan. Fodder like Kagura, who got oneshot by Larcade, effortlessly tanked Minerva's attacks. Minerva has no method to harming Elfman. Even if she can land 100 strikes for every 1 Elfman lands(she can't, Elfman is faster than her), Elfman would still tank it all and low diff her. Right now, Lucy herself being stronger than Minerva is on the table, and Elfman no-sold her strongest attack too. That's how weak Minerva is, she's bordering on Lucy tier. This isn't a win for Elfman, it's a stomp.
- I put ‘’hours’’ between quotation marks. The narrative time indicates that a lot of time passes, and other battles happened after Neinhart’s defeat. Natsu passed out, woke up, fought Gray, etc. And the main point is that a lot of people travel to another area, and since anyone was teleported, relevant time passed.
- Gildarts said it about God Serena, any other person refers to another Historia as weakened. Some of them are actually stronger (Ikaruga, Azuma, Ur). But, again:
1) Being a small fry to Gildarts doesn’t mean that the H-GS is really weak, since Gildarts is the strongest rank S from FT, above any other.
Laxus was portrayed to be able to one-shot Ajeel (an average Spriggan), so Gildarts, who is stronger than Laxus, could defeat a Spriggan more easily than Laxus.
2) Gildarts is strong enough to fight August and even hurt the Spriggan leader.
(August’s nose and mouth have blood traces
An average Spriggan cannot stand against August in a fight. It was stated a lot of times during the arc (Brandish said it / when August and Irene is with an avegare Spriggan, the average Spriggan power is ‘’ignored’’ because the power of both is so high that eclipsed a regular Spriggan mp, as we can see when Mirajane only commenting about Irene and August’s mp even when Brandish was with them, and Mavis stressing only Irene, August and Larcade’s mp/magic, etc.). So Gildarts’ actual level is already above original God Serena by feats. Gildarts never fought God Serena before, he presumed that alive GS would be strong enough to rival him but the manga put Gildarts level higher than GS by putting him against August. Thus, due to God Serena’s fame (because he is known as the strongest wizard from Ishgal), Gildarts could assume that he should be stronger and enough to rival the latter's own strength, but it’s not what the narrative showed.
3) The “small fry” Historia feats:
A) He can compete with Gildarts in a physical crash. So his physical strength is strong as Gildarts (the strongest rank S from FT)
If H-GS was significantly below Gildarts in strength, he would be sent flying by the physical collision, as when Elfman punched Loki and sent him flying with his strength and pressure:
The same happened when Natsu and Demon Jienma crashed, Natsu lost to the enemies strength and was sent flying away:
There are plenty of times that something like that happens: the weaker wizard cannot compete with the strong in strength and is thrown away with the collision. This didn’t happen with H-GS because he is as strong as Gildarts physically. Small fry, huh?
B) Gildarts spammed crash to break H-GS’s magic. Gildarts didn’t tank spells, he broke it spamming his own magic, and Gildarts even used a finalization attack to defeat him. He used
Crushing Evil, Spreading the Truth: Empyrean (the same attack that he used to defeat Bluenote), if Erza needs to fight against a small fry, she will not use Nakagami, if Gray needs to fight a small fry, he will not use a Devil Slayer finisher spell, so why Gildarts used one of his finishers spells against a ‘’small fry’’? Why didn't he defeat him more easily?
Gildarts mouth was bleeding in a fight against a ‘’small fry’’:
Conclusion: Either God Serena is quite stronger than Ajeel - once the latter would be one-shotted or very damaged by one attack cast by Laxus while GS can rival with Gildarts (who is stronger than Laxus), which makes a weakened version from GS not be far from Ajeel’s level - or Ajeel and God Serena is at the same level, the average Spriggan’s level and Gildarts was overhyping GS because of the Spriggan’s fame in Ishigal - maybe they were equal in strength in the past, but this past year made Gildarts surpass him a lot - and H-GS wasn’t so weakened, once he can match physical strength with Gildarts.
Anyway, considering
feats and
narrative information about God Serena, H-God Serena, Ajeel, and their opponents, it’s clear that the H-versions are still strong opponents (and I’m not counting Neinhart’s mp upgrade until here).
- Ajeel matched Erza's strength with his magic. Neinhart did the same with Erza while keeping all the Hargeon Port occupied. I’m talking about measuring forces physically (because Elfman fights with body techniques, basically punching and relying on his brute strength).
Wahl crashed punches with Laxus and they were even:
Wahl punches thrown Laxus way two times:
Wahl endured a kick that destroyed 3 floors of one building. Being immune to thunder doesn't change the strength of the kick and Wahl durability to tank it.
Making a direct comparison with Ajeel: when Ajeel kicked Erza, Erza managed to defend the kick perfectly, she wasn’t thrown away with his strength or something like that:
Ajeel isn’t weak, he can endure some of Erza’s cuts, but you can’t ignore the context: he is a counter to Erza's fight style. He didn’t prove to really endure physical attacks. If we switch the opponents and put Laxus against Ajeel, the latter didn’t show feats that prove that he will endure Laxus’s strength that destroyed 3 floors and keeps fighting normally.
- Kagura has better endurance feats. Elfman didn’t stand up after the opponent ripped off part of his body/ opened a hole in his body.
I don’t care if you didn’t like Kagura's character or if she isn’t a character with a lot of spotlights, but she has shown feats. And better than Elfman’s.
Again: Kagura tanked YG effortlessly because she is a monster of endurance, Elfman’s endurance needs to be as strong as hers to do the same. And by feats, it isn’t SO he will be more damaged by it than Kagura. Minerva's mp’s improved after GMG too, so her spells are stronger than they were by that time.
- Mirajane “You won’t be forgiven, Lucy’’ after Lucy defeated Lisanna. Source: manga
- No, Kyouka etherious would clean the floor with Elfman. Even Alvarez Erza was very damaged by Kyouka’s pain curse. You’re overhyping Elfman. Someone who endured against H-Wahl will not be defeated by one punch from Elfman. Minerva didn’t get knocked out by one punch from Erza, could challenge a weakened Wahl, a foe that, in his prime, can even rival Laxus in physical strength. Minerva was actually dominating H-Whal in taijutsu:
So there’s no evidence that someone who is slower than Lisanna in speed can hit her
Plus, Minerva can defend herself against Elfman’s punch with a barrier (something that she frequently uses), can use
territory to change positions with him, or can restrain his movements.
Minerva will hit 100 times before he hits her 1.
Elfman isn’t faster than Minerva, you can’t go against what manga says. Evan Alvarez Elfman is slower than Lisanna.
About Lucy being above Minerva’s:
I really think that it is possible for Lucy to defeat “stronger mages” than her overall level, after all Uranometria is a strong spell (and could defeat Jackals). So I see that Lucy can defeat, with difficulty, even Spriggans like Jacob and Neinhart (because they didn’t show durability to overcome Uranometria), maybe Lucy can defeat even Minerva, Rogue, Elfman, and others (separately) with Uranometria, but we need to see how strong is Uranometria by now first and I’m 100% sure that Lucy isn’t above any of them without using Uranometria and that her Spirits, even the strongest one like Loki, isn’t superior to any of them in endurance. So if Loki can tank some of Mirajane and Elfman punches, Minerva can too easily. And even Lucy's own body and physical fight skills aren't above any of them. I didn’t see Lucy winning against H-Wahl and H-Bloodman because of their magic. I only see her defeating Jacob because she can counter all of his magic and against Neinhart if she attacks him (the summoner body) because if she fought against Historias, she would lose. Thus, putting Lucy above Minervas is precocious because, even if the Uranometria is strong enough to defeat Minerva, Uranometria is a spell that covers an area and Lucy needs to verbalize an enchantment, so Minerva can dodge it.
