Round of 16 Zeref vs Invel

[Tirl]

Uf debating is useless here.People are so biased against Zeref for obvious reasons.


Do you see the panel where Zeref is surprised by the immense magic power coming from Natsu that he comments "What Magic power is this" just the same way people reacted to August's or Irene's Magic power.

No, not the same. Zeref confirm it as strange power. While others mages have just huge MP and people said actually that.

Read again. Zeref never said that Igneel's power was strange. Those are your words, not Zeref's. The ball covered the distance from Zeref to Natsu before Natsu recovered his balance from that punch. It's not slow.

You don't think Igneel's power was a greater power-up than etherion during ToH?

Who is to say that Acnologia couldn't kill Zeref? Zeref didn't think Natsu could beat him either, and yet here we are. Let's assume that Igneel can't kill Zeref. Igneel's magical power is still a significant power-up no matter how you spin it. Igneel was much stronger than Natsu himself.

Zeref never said that IgPower was huge or bigger than his or Natsu's or any thing comparable to it.

Natsu stand still and see that ball in front of him and able to move hand like just it was turtle, not Zeref's attack. It's too slow.

Igneel's power is just not power up, it is ability to kill immortal. We can't compare ability and power source.

Spoiler

 

[Axiomus]

Zeref never said that IgPower was huge or bigger than his or Natsu's or any thing comparable to it.

Natsu stand still and see that ball in front of him and able to move hand like just it was turtle, not Zeref's attack. It's too slow.

Igneel's power is just not power up, it is ability to kill immortal. We can't compare ability and power source.

Spoiler

Natsu's power + Igneel's power > Natsu's power. Even if Igneel was only just as strong as Natsu, having his magical power would have doubled Natsu's. In reality, Igneel was likely several times stronger than Natsu. Here was Zeref's reaction to Igneel's power. If all it took was for someone to use the power of a dead person to kill Zeref, then Keith should have had to power to kill Zeref. Obviously there's more to that.

The part of about the power of the dead being capable of killing an immortal was Zeref's speculation. Zeref isn't actually an expert on what Igneel's power is, nor does he actually have a solid idea of what it would take to kill him. Up until a while ago, he thought END could kill him. Besides, it's highly unlikely that Natsu knew anything about the power of the dead being a weakness for immortals. He probably just assumed that Igneel's power was just that strong, which is just as valid as Zeref's speculation.

Zeref's blast covered the distance between Zeref and Natsu before Natsu was able to recover his balance from throwing that punch. If Natsu had been standing half the distance, then obviously Natsu would have had less time to react. We actually know what happens when Zeref throws attacks at Natsu at close range. Natsu gets hit.

Spoiler

 

[CaptainTorch]

Wow... just wow.
I knew people were salty after the last chapter, but this is just being stupidly bias. Did everyone forget that Natsu managed to defeat Zeref only after an attack that burned his own hand to a crisp and "burned time"? Base Natsu without this attack can't do much - he'll get one-shotted like in chapter 533.
And yet someone says Zeref is Neinhart tier?
Jeez, the Zeref anti-bias is strong. And here I thought people wouldn't be as bias as in the lat tournament....

 

[Seven777]

Zeref is strong, but people are overrating him.
In terms of MP he isnt much better than average spriggans, if at all.
CQC skills? Much weaker than Jacob.
Offensive power? Fairly impressive, but he isnt oneshotting anyone.

Zeref's real strength comes from his immortality and his magical knowledge, thats why whenever anyone talks about how formidable Zeref is they only ever talk about how he is a genius or how he is immortal. No one ever talks about how much magic power he has, or what a great warrior he is, or how dangerous his "death magic" is. The only thing anyone ever has to worry about when facing Zeref is his immortal body, something that is of no concern to Invel
Would Zeref win? Yeah probably, I voted for him. Invel isnt on the same tier after all. But Invel has a big advantage in that he can ignore Zeref's only exceptional quality.
So people can whine about how salty and unreasonable all the Invel supporters are, but imo voting for him is perfectly reasonable when you consider the disadvantage Zeref is at, and i have yet to see a good argument for why not voting for Zeref is as stupid as people are making it out to be, other than "he just oneshots Invel" which doesnt cut it for me.

Before people start calling me a hater i'd like to request they remember that i hate Invel too.

 

[Nemispelled]

After reading the comments on this thread, the points that I mostly agree with are the ones made by: @Tirl, @Laxus pwns natsu, and @Invel > Zeref

I also agree with @Am Shegar's and @Jean Grey's post about Invel winning.


Honestly, I really don't know why people are putting so much emphasis on Zeref vs. Natsu... It really doesn't matter.

Here's the deal: Natsu doesn't use hax magic. Invel does.


That's the entire difference here..

Raiment Armor's Divine Ice? Base Zeref instantly loses.

Insta-freeze? Base Zeref instantly loses.


Zeref's immortality is pointless in this tournament. The rules state that "immobilization" counts as a victory.

FH Zeref lost to an exhausted Natsu even after gaining infinite magic power.

How do you expect Zeref to beat a full-powered hax-magic Spriggan when he loses his "infinite power" and "immortality"?


Don't underestimate Invel's ice.

Gray, who never faltered in the presence of cold temperatures, openly admitted to shivering from Invel's sheer winter blast.

Zeref isn't even an ice wizard. He has no special tolerance for cold temperatures, let alone surviving a touch from Raiment's Divine Ice properties.

Invel's ice was responsible for insta-freezing Natsu.. the very person who slaughtered FH Zeref last chapter.


One second of being frozen is enough for Invel to make their statues shatter and crumble to dust.

 

[Boomburst]

One second of being frozen is enough for Invel to make their statues shatter and crumble to dust.

That isn't how it works, is it? I was under the impression that freezing someone only encases their exterior with ice; it's not as if their body literally BECOMES ice. Shattering the ice wouldn't result in shattering the bodies inside, it would only end up freeing whoever was frozen.

 

[Nemispelled]

That isn't how it works, is it? I was under the impression that freezing someone only encases their exterior with ice; it's not as if their body literally BECOMES ice. Shattering the ice wouldn't result in shattering the bodies inside, it would only end up freeing whoever was frozen.

Well, that hardly makes a difference.

We can assume that what you said is true, but Invel would still have a free swing at the statue's neck/head.

Or to be sure, Invel can just touch the statue with his Divine Ice after it is frozen.

Once they're encased in Divine Ice, they're immobile for good, in which case, I would consider that Invel takes the victory.

 

[Valhalla]

Although Zeref is my favorite character, I have to admit, he was really downplayed by Mashima and shown weak, almost to the point where it looked like he wasn't that much stronger than his spriggan guards. That said I will still vote for Zeref. Despite Mashima's bullshit I consider Zeref to be stronger than any combatant in this tournament bar August and Natsu. I dont think he's stronger than August .... And Natsu, well we all saw how that went down. I'm predicting a August v Natsu finale --> that's a match (but considering Natsu's flames burn even logic, i think I know what the result will be)

Here's the deal: Natsu doesn't use hax magic. Invel does.

Natsu doesn't use hax, but his magic can burn hax. Natsu's magic can now burn time, infinity and even logic itself. I bet you, it burned even Mashimas pencil when he drew that abysmal chapter lol. That guild emotion fire magic nonsense would drop anyone in the series, even Acnologia, ... and Ankhseram himself.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Going Zeref.

He may have had a bad performance in 536 but that doesn't really affect where he is power wise in my eyes

 

[LaGOAT]

U guys are funny ignatsu is irrelevant base natsu>ignatsu FH zeref got destroyed by a no name casual punch by base natsu. Invel insta freeze base natsu who is above any form of natsu in this series. U guys have no found counter argument to base on that. First of TS is restricted and if it is wasn't TS didn't work on Tartarus natsu and if U can he want to then it's either PIS or he can can no diff most dragons with that power but dragons>humans right? Anyways zeref oneshotting makarov?? Ya ooook.. anyways invel can perform the same feat so that's irrelevant @CaptainTorch give me a feat that is above sand world???​

 

[CaptainTorch]

U guys are funny ignatsu is irrelevant base natsu>ignatsu FH zeref got destroyed by a no name casual punch by base natsu. Invel insta freeze base natsu who is above any form of natsu in this series. U guys have no found counter argument to base on that. First of TS is restricted and if it is wasn't TS didn't work on Tartarus natsu and if U can he want to then it's either PIS or he can can no diff most dragons with that power but dragons>humans right? Anyways zeref oneshotting makarov?? Ya ooook.. anyways invel can perform the same feat so that's irrelevant @CaptainTorch give me a feat that is above sand world???​

Sand World isn't even an attacking spell...
And you know that a person can still be top tier even without good feats? Because going by your logic, the Parent Dragons excluding Igneel are weaklings, because they didn't show feats :/
But since you wanted feats, here you go:

Spoiler

Zeref tanked this:

Managed to do this:

Survived this:

Give me feats of Invel survining against IgNatsu

 

[Gaggen]

if i were to use natsu as a power scale, i would say invel>zeref. Why?? he wasnt oneshotted by base natsu, instead he oneshotted base natsu, which is stronger than df and fh zeref. so basically invel> fh zeref. laugh as hard as you all want, after this week's chapter everything is a joke now, including this tournament. Reality bites...

 

[Invel > Zeref]

if i were to use natsu as a power scale, i would say invel>zeref. Why?? he wasnt oneshotted by base natsu, instead he oneshotted base natsu, which is stronger than df and fh zeref. so basically invel> fh zeref. laugh as hard as you all want, after this week's chapter everything is a joke now, including this tournament. Reality bites...

Can't we also say that Acnologia is weaker than Wahl because Acno got outpaced and pushed around by a ship that Wahl easily destroyed lol

 

[Valhalla]

Can't we also say that Acnologia is weaker than Wahl because Acno got outpaced and pushed around by a ship that Wahl easily destroyed lol

Haha that's Mashima's logic for you.

 

[Gaggen]

How so? Because some are siding with Invel? I could respect other people's opinions but it really doesn't sit well with me when people brush off my opinion as stupid without actually debating or refuting my logic and points.

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2017, Original Post Date: May 22, 2017 ---

Can't we also say that Acnologia is weaker than Wahl because Acno got outpaced and pushed around by a ship that Wahl easily destroyed lol

depends on you. you see fairy tail is all about imagination. after this week's feats anything is possible.

 

[Axiomus]

Zeref has decent attack power. More than enough power to put in hole in Larcade. Zeref's "Black Exploding Flame Blade" is arguably stronger than any of Natsu's attacks except the finisher last chapter that burned Natsu's own arm, and maybe demolition fist in dragon force. Both attacks would erase Invel to be honest, and are way above something like Ice Devil's Broken Fist in terms of attack power. Zeref has attacks that can put holes in Invel, and he can tank attacks that would erase Invel from the face of the earth, and he can keep up in close quarters combat with Natsu tiers. Gray can kick around Invel without just hand to hand combat, and Gray isn't as strong as DF Natsu nor the version of Natsu in 536.

The divine railment was shattered by Gray's brute strength. Also, Gray can actually imitate the ice of the true ice kamui, so the ice isn't actually unique to Invel. It's demonic ice, and as a devil slayer Gray should have demonic as as well. We've actually seen Gray's attempts to instant freeze END Natsu, and the power necessary to break free of it. Don't you think Zeref could recreate the power behind END Natsu's fire if he can keep up with Natsu? Now factor in the fact that Gray still resorted to using lost ice shell in order to trap Zeref. If Gray could imitate Invel's ice, and can obviously instant freeze, why do you think he resorted to giving up his life to trap Zeref?

Spoiler: Gray can imitate the ice

Spoiler: Gray's instant freeze

People are acting as if the version of Natsu that "fought" Invel was anywhere close to the version of Natsu that fought Zeref. Natsu and Invel never really had a proper fight. The roar that Invel froze was intended to be used against the Alvarez Troops. It took way less effort for Natsu to break out of Invel's ice than it did to escape Zeref's black magic. Both spells kept Natsu trapped for around 1 chapter, the only difference is Zeref's spell actually did a fair bit of damage in the process whereas Natsu was basically completely unharmed by the ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Invel's ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Zeref's magic

 

[EmberSpirit]

Zeref has decent attack power. More than enough power to put in hole in Larcade. Zeref's black exploding flame blade is arguably stronger than any of Natsu's attacks except the finisher last chapter that burned Natsu's own arm, and maybe demolition fist in dragon force. Both attacks would erase Invel to be honest, and are way above something like Ice Devil's Broken Fist. Zeref has attacks that can put holes in Invel, and he can tank attacks that would erase Invel from the face of the earth, and he can keep up in close quarters combat with Natsu tiers. Gray can kick around Invel without just hand to hand combat, and Gray isn't as strong as DF Natsu nor the version of Natsu in 536.

The divine railment was shattered by Gray's brute strength. Also, Gray can actually imitate the ice of the true ice kamui so the ice that Invel isn't actually unique to Invel. It's demonic ice, and as a devil slayer Gray should have demonic as as well. We've actually seen Gray's attempts to instant freeze END Natsu, and the power necessary to break free of it. Don't you think Zeref could recreate the power behind END Natsu's fire if he can keep up with Natsu? Now factor in the fact that Gray still resorted to using lost ice shell in order to trap Zeref. If Gray could imitate Invel's ice, and can obviously instant freeze, why do you think he resorted to giving up his life to trap Zeref?

Spoiler: Gray can imitate the ice of the divine railment with his ice make magic

Spoiler: Gray's instant freeze

People are acting as if the version of Natsu that "fought" Invel was anywhere close to the version of Natsu that fought Zeref. Natsu and Invel never really had a proper fight. The roar that Invel froze was intended to be used against the Alvarez Troops. It took way less effort for Natsu to break out of Invel's ice than it did to escape Zeref's black magic. Both spells kept Natsu trapped for around 1 chapter, the only difference is Zeref's spell actually did a fair bit of damage in the process whereas Natsu was basically completely unharmed by the ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Invel's ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Zeref's magic

Someone who makes sense in this thread

 

[Tirl]

But since you wanted feats, here you go:

Spoiler

Zeref tanked this:

Managed to do this:

Survived this:

Give me feats of Invel survining against IgNatsu

And Jacob survived full powered attack from Natsu which vaporised lake like nothing without many scratch on his face. So Zeref feats on it doesn't make any sense.

 

[CaptainTorch]

And Jacob survived full powered attack from Natsu which vaporised lake like nothing without many scratch on his face. So Zeref feats on it doesn't make any sense.

Axiomus just explained everything perfectly, so if you disagree read his post.
I don't feel like arguing about something which should be fairly obvious.

 

[LaGOAT]

@Axiomus @CaptainTorch ur missing the point those feats are irrelevant because base natsu>iG natsu. Ur logic is debunk becuase u can say the same about Wendy. i can say we saw that got no diff bluenote isn't the same Wendy that fought Irene so therefore Wendy is around spriggan lvl or erza is high tier sprrigan lvl because she wasn't the same person she was vs ajeel?. @CaptainTorch no the parent dragons have feats and their feats are to erase human memory's and to able to destroy faces around the continents in seconds. Also when using hype and protrayal u have to have a decent feat which zeref doesn't. No diff powerless/exchausted characters is hardly an impressive feat. In my eyes

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2017, Original Post Date: May 22, 2017 ---

Zeref has decent attack power. More than enough power to put in hole in Larcade. Zeref's "Black Exploding Flame Blade" is arguably stronger than any of Natsu's attacks except the finisher last chapter that burned Natsu's own arm, and maybe demolition fist in dragon force. Both attacks would erase Invel to be honest, and are way above something like Ice Devil's Broken Fist in terms of attack power. Zeref has attacks that can put holes in Invel, and he can tank attacks that would erase Invel from the face of the earth, and he can keep up in close quarters combat with Natsu tiers. Gray can kick around Invel without just hand to hand combat, and Gray isn't as strong as DF Natsu nor the version of Natsu in 536.

The divine railment was shattered by Gray's brute strength. Also, Gray can actually imitate the ice of the true ice kamui, so the ice isn't actually unique to Invel. It's demonic ice, and as a devil slayer Gray should have demonic as as well. We've actually seen Gray's attempts to instant freeze END Natsu, and the power necessary to break free of it. Don't you think Zeref could recreate the power behind END Natsu's fire if he can keep up with Natsu? Now factor in the fact that Gray still resorted to using lost ice shell in order to trap Zeref. If Gray could imitate Invel's ice, and can obviously instant freeze, why do you think he resorted to giving up his life to trap Zeref?

Spoiler: Gray can imitate the ice

Spoiler: Gray's instant freeze

People are acting as if the version of Natsu that "fought" Invel was anywhere close to the version of Natsu that fought Zeref. Natsu and Invel never really had a proper fight. The roar that Invel froze was intended to be used against the Alvarez Troops. It took way less effort for Natsu to break out of Invel's ice than it did to escape Zeref's black magic. Both spells kept Natsu trapped for around 1 chapter, the only difference is Zeref's spell actually did a fair bit of damage in the process whereas Natsu was basically completely unharmed by the ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Invel's ice

Spoiler: Natsu breaking out of Zeref's magic

Also invel didn't use ice lock on POF Gray. Those panel I can say that natsu using a weaker power to brake out of which means that DF natsu is league below base natsu give gray the pof and he is on the same league as pof natsu