Discussion Zoro and Sanji

[Fox666]

I'm find it quite strange that too many people seem to believe that Zoro is stronger than Sanji, when everything in the story points out to them being near equal.

I'm going to say that while Zoro would still be "stronger", the author think of them like Kaku and Jabura, and Zoro is literally only 1% stronger than Sanji.

Anyway, here's a list:

Hunting competition

Zoro and Sanji had a competition to whom could hunt a bigger animal for dinner, and they both got a dinosaur of similar sizes

Spoiler

Daz Bones vs Bentham

Daz Bones and Bentham had a short fight when they first meet.

While Daz Bones has the lower number and should be the strongest of the two, the fight show they are somewhat very close in terms of strength, similar to Kaku and Jabra.

Spoiler

They actually fought against each other in the Davy Back Fight

Zoro and Sanji attacked each other during the Davy Back Fight. While it was a joke, it still show that they are evenly matched.

Spoiler

Kaku and Jabra Dourki levels

Kaku and Jabra have a Douriki level of 2,200 and 2,180 respectively, meaning the difference in their strength is that of 1%.

Spoiler

Their zombies fought to a standstill

Zoro and Sanji zombies were clearly evenly matched.

Spoiler

They were the only ones still standing after Kuma's attack

After Kuma used the Ursus Shock, only Zoro and Sanji were still conscious, and both were willing to exchange their lives for their captain.

It was Zoro who knocked Sanji, so Kuma would pick him.

Spoiler

They took down a Pacifista together

While Luffy destroyed a PX-5 on his own, Zoro and Sanji combined their forces to destroy PX-7

They argued about which one actually did it, but it seems both delivered critical blows (Zoro cut its body in half, while Sanji broke its neck).

Spoiler

Their entrance against the New Fishman Pirates

Both Zoro and Sanji acted as Luffy protectors when Luffy walked towards Hody Jones.

Spoiler

Cover pages

The cover page of chapter 672 shows Zoro and Sanji fighting during a race, while carrying a rabbit and a turtle on their backs.

Spoiler

If there's any doubt that Zoro and Sanji were equals, and still are after the time skip, the cover page from chapter 920 shows both of passed out after a fight.

In Zoro's dream, Chopper if cheering him up for defeating Sanji. In Sanji's dream, Nami is hugging him for defeating Zoro.

Spoiler

While a lot of weird things can happen in a cover page, it doesn't change that this is how the author sees the result of a fight between them.

Armament Haki vs Observation Haki

Some people seems to think that Zoro should be the strongest, since the author said he's better with Armament Haki.

But the author also said Sanji is better with Observation Haki.

Since when is Armament Haki the only thing that matters in a battle? Katakuri was an undefeated monster, and it was because of his Observation Haki.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You make very valid points and because of that I'm going to enjoy the resulting explosion of Zoro/Sanji fans blow this way out of proportion lol

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Zoro has the stamina edge as demonstrated vs Kuma. Also Brook and Robin didn't properly feint either.

Zoro can CoA better too post-ts. And his Ashura hasn't been watered down like Diable Jambe.

That said, I probably won't post more about this for obvious reasons.

*goes to make popcorn*

 

[nik87]

I think you couldnt be more wrong.
Just switch their opponents and watch Sanji lose every single fight...

 

[XXGenesis]

No Zoro is stronger. Doesn't matter to me by how much, but he is stronger and the more capable fighter. Zoro & Sanji are meant to be Rivals. Rivals don't always have matching strength levels. Zoro isn't league stronger than Sanjo, or a mile a head of him. The dude is just simply stronger.

Sanji vs Daz Bones..Sanji loses
Sanji vs Kaku..Sanji loses

He's not stronger, just a good rival.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Oh my. That Thread will be pure gold.

Some of your points are: Their opponents were the same level, but Zoros were always considered better. (Kaku, Mr.1...) So it goes naturally: Zoro > Sanji even if it is small.

 

[Shasha23]

I'm find it quite strange that too many people seem to believe that Zoro is stronger than Sanji, when everything in the story points out to them being near equal.

I'm going to say that while Zoro would still be "stronger", the author think of them like Kaku and Jabura, and Zoro is literally only 1% stronger than Sanji.

What is the point of this thread and why did you even make it when your logic is clearly overwriting your trolling?

 

[XXGenesis]

Oh my. That Thread will be pure gold.

Some of your points are: Their opponents were the same level, but Zoros were always considered better. (Kaku, Mr.1...) So it goes naturally: Zoro > Sanji even if it is small.

It's a simple please equation. Hardcore Sanji fans refuse to admit to.

To their credit, I would defend my fav character to. But they do too much when they ignore how much Oda has not written him last few arcs to be ass kicking as much as Zoro. Or has comparable opponents and feats to be close rivals anymore

 

[TitaniumOxide]

I agree they are both equals too for the different properties they individually possess. One's strength...doesn't just come from brute strength unless it is all you have. Zoro somewhat fit in this category. But that is one of the reason why he is my favorite character actually. Badass mofo lol. However Sanji is smart af. He doesn't just use CoO. He been using "CoO" since probably alabasta but only shown during Alabasta. When I put CoO in quotes I mean he is just observant. No need to use haki, just his observations and inferences to help get his crew from Crocodile's cage or whatever it was. That is why Sanji's focus is CoO. He just have a better head when it comes to shit like that. They are equal because they are unique in thwir own way and the benefits they bring to the table makes them equal. That all being said...I need to comment on the original post and disagree not that Sanji And Zoro aren't equals because they are, but I cannot agree with some of the reasons and examples provided. They are always shown to excel in their individual ways. One can take his captain's pain and lose like half his body's blood and still survive because he is a fucking barbarian with the willpower to survive. The other can bake a cake to get a Yonko so high she might as well be overdosing on heroine, coke, and psilocybins at the same time all because he likes to feed people who are hungry (oh right, also to save his crew and escape). But seriously, Sanji just want to feed people and make them happy.

I'm find it quite strange that too many people seem to believe that Zoro is stronger than Sanji, when everything in the story points out to them being near equal.

I'm going to say that while Zoro would still be "stronger", the author think of them like Kaku and Jabura, and Zoro is literally only 1% stronger than Sanji.

Anyway, here's a list:

Hunting competition

Zoro and Sanji had a competition to whom could hunt a bigger animal for dinner, and they both got a dinosaur of similar sizes

Spoiler

Daz Bones vs Bentham

Daz Bones and Bentham had a short fight when they first meet.

While Daz Bones has the lower number and should be the strongest of the two, the fight show they are somewhat very close in terms of strength, similar to Kaku and Jabra.

Spoiler

They actually fought against each other in the Davy Back Fight

Zoro and Sanji attacked each other during the Davy Back Fight. While it was a joke, it still show that they are evenly matched.

Spoiler

Kaku and Jabra Dourki levels

Kaku and Jabra have a Douriki level of 2,200 and 2,180 respectively, meaning the difference in their strength is that of 1%.

Spoiler

Their zombies fought to a standstill

Zoro and Sanji zombies were clearly evenly matched.

Spoiler

They were the only ones still standing after Kuma's attack

After Kuma used the Ursus Shock, only Zoro and Sanji were still conscious, and both were willing to exchange their lives for their captain.

It was Zoro who knocked Sanji, so Kuma would pick him.

Spoiler

They took down a Pacifista together

While Luffy destroyed a PX-5 on his own, Zoro and Sanji combined their forces to destroy PX-7

They argued about which one actually did it, but it seems both delivered critical blows (Zoro cut its body in half, while Sanji broke its neck).

Spoiler

Their entrance against the New Fishman Pirates

Both Zoro and Sanji acted as Luffy protectors when Luffy walked towards Hody Jones.

Spoiler

Chapter 920 cover page

If there's any doubt that Zoro and Sanji were equals, and still are after the time skip, the cover page from chapter 920 shows both of passed out after a fight.

In Zoro's dream, Chopper if cheering him up for defeating Sanji. In Sanji's dream, Nami is hugging him for defeating Zoro.

Spoiler

While a lot of weird things can happen in a cover page, it doesn't change that this is how the author sees the result of a fight between them.

Armament Haki vs Observation Haki

Some people seems to think that Zoro should be the strongest, since the author said he's better with Armament Haki.

But the author also said Sanji is better with Observation Haki.

Since when is Armament Haki the only thing that matters in a battle? Katakuri was an undefeated monster, and it was because of his Observation Haki.

A lot of these examples just show case their individual toughness and what they do together. But another strawhat can pull similar feats. I bet Jinbe would be able to be okay with a Ursus shock but can we say he is equal to Zoro or Sanji? No he is just simply tough. Same with Kaku or Jabra. Jinbe can defeat either probably but that doesn't make him stronger. I'd much rather celebrate their individualness to understand why they are equals because the weight of their feats matter more than something menial like if they can both catch similar size game. What if all the biggest fish or dinosaur or whatever it may be in that spot are of the same size? Then naturally no matter what, they will catch similar size animals because of availability. If they were bigger, they would have hunted those. These examples have too many what if factors, they are not black and white that shows for sure what Zoro or Sanji is capable of. Going back to baking the cake, that is something only Sanji can do best. Going back to Zoro taking the ursus pain bubble, at the time probably only his body is tough enough to take that and survive. These examples are not concrete for the argument to me...but I am still gonna agree that these two are equals.

I think you couldnt be more wrong.
Just switch their opponents and watch Sanji lose every single fight...

A easy rebuttal is that they just need to swap opponents and you can see Zoro is stronger. Sanji vs Kaku. Blahblahblah. This is bs. They fight the opponent that they fight. Sanji couldn't even fight Kalifa and her douriki level was by all means, shit. And let's pit Zoro against big mom. These arguments just plain doesn't work because the characters are given their specific opponents because they are the ones to handle these baddies, not someone else because that job is unique to them. Zoro right now can never hope to knock out Big Mom and stop her rampage but Sanji would never be able to defeat Monet because he is weak...against female type pokemans. The best he can do for them is cook them shit and food coma them. But if they fight he will need to retreat. Again, I think their equalness comes from their core characters, not who they can win against. We learned this in 1996 when the first pokemon games came out. Maybe I got the date wrong but shit it makes sense that grass beats water and water beats fire and fire burns grass And somehow bug types are super effective against flying psychics hahahahahaha. Man those were the days.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

been using "CoO" since probably alabasta but only shown during Alabasta.

Did I miss that? Where was it?

 

[Fox666]

Did I miss that? Where was it?

There are a few cases in the early arcs where fans think the Strawhats used Haki for this or for that... but it's probably not the case.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Did I miss that? Where was it?

I literally put "CoO" in quotes in my post to show then that I wasn't really talking about CoO. I am merely stating that Sanji used his observant skills to save his crew the same way anyone is more observant while using CoO. He didn't have haki then but his observation skills were really spot on.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I think you are confusing observation with intelligence(which he has). First Observationskills showcased(ironically enough) Zoro against Mr. 1, when he knew exactly where rocks will gonna fall down and where his sword was.

 

[King Moe]

Zoro has the stamina edge as demonstrated vs Kuma. Also Brook and Robin didn't properly feint either.

Zoro can CoA better too post-ts. And his Ashura hasn't been watered down like Diable Jambe.

That said, I probably won't post more about this for obvious reasons.

*goes to make popcorn*

Stamina and durability doesn't exist. Ever since Kamazou fight, many see Zoro down a lot if he can't tank same anymore in the end.

Asura doesn't exist PT. No hints or he can use it. He wouldn't get Enma if he has another power up.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2019 ---

I think you couldnt be more wrong.
Just switch their opponents and watch Sanji lose every single fight...

And Zoro get his body beat by Sanji's opponents the same. They change here and there on who has strong enemy.

 

[Shasha23]

Stamina and durability doesn't exist. Ever since Kamazou fight, many see Zoro down a lot if he can't tank same anymore in the end.

I dont know about the "a lot" part by yeah, that fight dint put him in a good light

Asura doesn't exist PT. No hints or he can use it. He wouldn't get Enma if he has another power up.

Can you please explain what you mean, i dont understand what your trying to say since he already has Enma!!!!!!!

And Zoro get his body beat by Sanji's opponents the same. They change here and there on who has strong enemy.

Like when, the only time he faced a Sanji's opponent it was Jabra and he was a none factor and was scared of Kaku and Zoro, there has never been a change Zoro's opponents have always been stronger than Sanji's opponents, that is why Zoro is the right-hand man and Sanji is not.

 

[HereNThere]

I don't think they are fully equal, but, in my opinion, they will always be "comparable". Zoro doesn't completely dominate Sanji in a fight, but he'll walk away with the win 6 times out of 10.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't think they are fully equal, but, in my opinion, they will always be "comparable". Zoro doesn't completely dominate Sanji in a fight, but he'll walk away with the win 6 times out of 10.

Pretty fair assessment.

I put them in the same tier, but I do consider Zoro>Sanji... it's just that the difference is so minor that I can definitely see a win from Sanji. I would say 7 outta 10 times in favor of Zoro.

I dont see either of them wrecking eachother.

 

[nik87]

The difference is so small that one will at least scar if not kill the world's strongest creature while the other will dream about doing the same.

 

[Pirate Queen]

We arent dealing with what MAY happen but with what HAS happened.

And Sanji may very well prove capable of fighting Admirals or Yonko by the End of the story. We just done know yet.

As more feats are shown the clearer the picture gets, but I'm not dealing in hypotheticals here.

*troll begins*After all. Sanji may get Oden's shoes and it is revealed that Oden actually have kicked Kaido and hurt him and those kicks were worse then the slash he received *troll ends*

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2019 ---

I think it needs to be said that if one of the main arguements for one side is that we need to "Wait till the end of Wano" it just isnt much of an arguement to put Zoro miles above Sanji.

 

[nik87]

If you want things that have happened, I'll show you the dimension that exists between Kaku and Jabra, Mr 1 and Mr 2, Ryuma and Absalom...
When I wake up, that is.