Discussion CP0

[Fox666]

Since Jabra said he never heard of a Doriki is high as 4,000, doesn't that mean none of the CP0 is stronger than Lucci individually?

 

[Asarii]

Here's my take on the difference between CP9 and CP0:

CP9: This is a secret organization of the Cipher Pol whose members are trained in Rokushiki since childhood to carry out assassinations later on. (It won't make the WG look good if they were carrying out assassinations.) They may also engage in undercover operations as seen when some members worked at Galley-La.

CP0: It's unknown if the public is aware of them, but it seems as if those who are connected to the WG/Marines (Law, Caesar and Robin who was being chased by them for decades) are knowledgeable about this faction. While the CP9's main job is assassination, it seems to me that CP0 is more about intelligence gathering; if they were in a situation where they have to fight, however, I'm sure they would very well be capable of combat. Since they are easily recognizable by sight and wear masks that make them stand out, they might be a public figure for the entirety of the Cipher Pol organization. No one will know who they are when they take off their masks and slip into an inconspicuous attire.

As an aside note: the connection between one CP0 member and the WG official whom Doflamingo talked to was discussed elsewhere, and I'd like to point out that apart from the bowler hat, the WG official's face was never properly shown.

 

[kkck]

As far as we know the existence of CP9 and CP0 is actually confidential and unofficial at large. CP0 does seem to have the higher standing and it should be strong enough to work in the new world... The public at large should not be aware of the existence of either though. Law is a shichibukai so it is not that strange that he knows and robin has been 2 years with the revolutionaries and has been on the run from the world government all her life, it makes sense she knows such organizations. At least the revolutionaries are bound to have met them a number of times.

 

[matzik1212]

I think those guys are not for gathering information only , they look really strong . I'm thinking CP9 is crap in front of this one

Let's not forget their are in the NW , you can't be weak and be called CP in the most dangerous sea in OP ...

 

[danzouismadara]

CPO is basically similar to zero guard from bleach. I think they are fewer in number, but stronger and take Special missions. I think they are all vice-admiral level, but even law and robin looked terrified, so maybe they are admiral level.

 

[RezzieThaRapper]

I don't think Law looked terrified and Robin's behavior is quite understandable... But I'm estimating about 5 or 6 of them including the Lady with Sanji and at least 1 contestant in the Colosseum (Ricky looks promising)...

I think CP9 was specifically for information gathering and assassinations and spying... The only really promising fighter was Rob Lucci & Kaku was passable...

While CP0 is for world government cover-ups, and help save face for the Gorosei and Nobles...

 

[sarutobi_sensei]

It makes sense for a CP0 to exist, but I really didn't think of it xD

They are the shield of the WG so they must be extremely powerful.

Regarding Rokushiki, they are techniques. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Rokushiki

 

[RezzieThaRapper]

Also just because Lucci mastered Rokushiki doesn't mean he was the strongest user, he just knew all the techniques you could use... Heck he didn't have haki either, and CoA breaks Tekkai any day in my book... lol but because he mastered it he was VA level in my opinion.. (I wrote that kind of convolutedly lol)

 

[Mr. Arashi]

CP0 is an investing organization, CP9 is a murdering organization.

Oda said it, pull it from his ass to put some tension to the arc, they will not be a thread, they will connect to something that it will be a thread.

 

[Schabrak]

Theat, not thread. Investing as in besieging or investigating? ^^

Robin was pretty fearful when she detected them, they are the highest ranking agents of the WG and acting in the NW, so they will probably have strength comparable to their ranks.

 

[kkck]

CP0 is an investing organization, CP9 is a murdering organization.

Oda said it, pull it from his ass to put some tension to the arc, they will not be a thread, they will connect to something that it will be a thread.

I don't think we know that. The manga has only said they are an intelligence organization however all CPs are exactly that. In regards to how strong they should be we have to consider 3 things:

1.- They are in the new world.
2.- They are an organization above CP9 which was in itself an unofficial CP to begin with.
3.- Their name, CPAEGIS0. The aegis part is IMO relevants and perhaps non intuitively to a secret secret shady organization which is supposed to work in the shadows without others even knowing what it does reveals something about their function.

An aegis is a sort of shield, in other words it is reasonable to assume the CP0 works as a sort of shield to the world government. Being the top intelligence organization in the government it is not that unreasonable to think of them as the last shield perhaps. Now, CP9, an organization beneath them can't possibly be weaker than them, it would make no sense at. CP9 would already be too weak to be relevant as it was in the new world, CP0 necessarily has to be above them 2 years ago. As an intelligence unit they would have to get involved with relevant people in the new world which means in itself that the danger they have to face would be exponential greater than anything in the first half of the grand line. At the very least anyone relevant would be surrounded by extremely powerful people. It is worth noting that the range of strength is wide though. It is entirely possible any one of them is strong enough to give CP9 the fodder treatment while at the same time they would not match up to any one in the monster trio. I would think their key members will be on the level with the likes of the monster trio though. I don't think robin would have been so concerned about them if they were merely on the level with CP9 for that matter. Robin should have grown significantly stronger over the timeskip and even then she is with law and ussop with law in particular being exceptional and without a doubt able to give the fodder treatment to the CP9 from 2 years ago.

As for their presence in dressrosa, I would think with what we know there are enough reasons for them to be there. Doflamingo is a former shichibukai who ruled the kingdom and even if he abdicated it does seem as if he is still in control. Since this involved the highest government level it makes sense an intelligence unit would be involved. Doflamingo seems to be damn powerful and his unique position would definitely warrant investigation by the world government. It wouldn't even be strange if they at least suspected of his dealings in the underworld. More importantly, something happening to a shichibukai shifts the balance of the world by default and right now the new world is exceptionally dangerous. The world government will want to be as involved as they can with what is going on.

 

[danzouismadara]

CPO is def. not on the same level as cp9 if even law is worried and robin is sweating.. lol

 

[Ninomiya]

Also just because Lucci mastered Rokushiki doesn't mean he was the strongest user, he just knew all the techniques you could use... Heck he didn't have haki either, and CoA breaks Tekkai any day in my book... lol but because he mastered it he was VA level in my opinion.. (I wrote that kind of convolutedly lol)

You thought Lucci was VA level?
I think Enel was VA level. I don't think Lucci was that strong. I just think Luffy was seriously weak at that point in comparison to the Top tier characters.
You can't be a VA without Haki btw so Lucci would be Rear Admiral level.

It is entirely possible any one of them is strong enough to give CP9 the fodder treatment while at the same time they would not match up to any one in the monster trio.

This is a bit much. You expect Oda to release enemies at this stage that can't touch Sanji? What would be the point?
I'm expecting there is somebody there who can give Sanji a proper fight.

---------
CP9 were so wack and only Lucci, Kaku, Jabra and Blueno were of notable ability individually.
The rest were no higher than what would be roughly Captain level in the Marines

(Although Marine ranks aren't fully based on strength its the best I can grade them at)

 

[PLfighter]

Enel VA Level lol
If you mean garp power by that ok
He atleast close to admiral
But if you saying he is average VA
Than all new world captain WB ally was enel level power
And if VA so godly strong buster call is just wast of ammo.
They will send just on ship with VA and work is done.
Luffy win with him only becouse his df
Many say mr. Crocodile was weaker than luffy too
and he fight on pair with dd and mihawk

 

[RezzieThaRapper]

Yes Lucci is VA level... Luffy was knocking out VA Giants before the timeskip, Lucci is at least low level VA considering some of the ones we have seen have been utterly trashed... though that wasn't the main point of my original post

 

[Ninomiya]

Enel VA Level lol
If you mean garp power by that ok

Garp was offered the position of Admiral on various occasions.
So its only common sense to assume Garp & Sengoku as Admiral level characters.

He atleast close to admiral
But if you saying he is average VA
Than all new world captain WB ally was enel level power

This is an assumption. Its true some of them most certainly were, but we don't know if they all were.

And if VA so godly strong buster call is just wast of ammo.
They will send just on ship with VA and work is done.

Considering a Vice-Admiral just got knocked out completely in this dressrosa arc in the fight to get the Flame-Flame Fruit, I don't think its that simple in the NewWorld. Maybe back in Paradise.

Luffy win with him only becouse his df
Many say mr. Crocodile was weaker than luffy too
and he fight on pair with dd and mihawk

Okay... You may have to re-read or re-watch the series.
Crocodile was not equal or on par with Mihawk the man who trained Zoro for two years, or Doflamingo.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 PM ----------

Yes Lucci is VA level... Luffy was knocking out VA Giants before the timeskip, Lucci is at least low level VA considering some of the ones we have seen have been utterly trashed... though that wasn't the main point of my original post

Yeah, like I said, its stated that all VA's have Haki. So its hard to see the likes of Momonga and Smoker struggling with Lucci.
Lucci doesn't have Haki, and how many VA Giants was Luffy "knocking out"?

I don't think there is enough to suggest Lucci was VA level. The Luffy he lost to, wasn't necessarily too strong.
He had only just begun to use Gear2nd+3rd in that arc, its likely his mastery of it improved in arcs after.

 

[kkck]

Yes Lucci is VA level... Luffy was knocking out VA Giants before the timeskip, Lucci is at least low level VA considering some of the ones we have seen have been utterly trashed... though that wasn't the main point of my original post

I don't remember that... He did knock out a giant if I recall but that giant was not a VA.

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

You thought Lucci was VA level?
I think Enel was VA level. I don't think Lucci was that strong. I just think Luffy was seriously weak at that point in comparison to the Top tier characters.
You can't be a VA without Haki btw so Lucci would be Rear Admiral level.


This is a bit much. You expect Oda to release enemies at this stage that can't touch Sanji? What would be the point?
I'm expecting there is somebody there who can give Sanji a proper fight.

---------
CP9 were so wack and only Lucci, Kaku, Jabra and Blueno were of notable ability individually.
The rest were no higher than what would be roughly Captain level in the Marines

(Although Marine ranks aren't fully based on strength its the best I can grade them at)

Enel would at most match the less relevant VAs... the VAs do seem to be numerous at large and the range of strength they have is quite something so far. They all are experienced fighters and haki users so they are definitely a force to be reckoned with. I do agree with lucci being at around the rear admiral level though. Drake was a rear admiral himself and it does seem like they can be relevant fighters. Smoker was reasonably strong himself even without the logia bit and he was not even a rear admiral, he was only a commodore.

Well, to be fair those are exactly the sort of enemies oda has introduced right now. Hodi was cannon fodder to the point where he was defeated underwater by zoro. Even after his transformation he was not a proper opponent for luffy. Luffy defeated him even though he was the worst choice to actually fight him. Imagine how he would do in an underwater fight against sanji under similar circumstances.... Sanji has his blue walk, he would have clobbered him. Easily at that. Ceasar was weak too. He was at most in a similar situation to enel, not much physical capacity to speak of but in turn had an exceptionally hard fruit to deal with. Well, the moment CP0 are capable of giving the likes of sanji a true fight we are talking about people with a huge amount of power on their hands. Some people are against CP0 even being relevant so far although I do think they will be relevant against the monster trio.

We have to consider that as far as the VAs go oda has actually made a point of not showing how strong they are. I guess it makes sense, it helped to avoid showing us just how weak luffy was before the timeskip and it keeps some mystery now as to the true strength of the marines. Eventually luffy and co will have to fight VAs with true power and it is definitely going to be tough on them.

 

[Ninomiya]

Considering CP9's current abilities, if you put them in the New World they would die extremely fast.
If your strongest member is Rear Admiral level in your team, and your second strongest is Commodore at best, then it doesn't look too good for you in New World.
I'm just expecting the Government to have Sanji level fighters hidden away.
They must have some VA level guys. You look at the Gorosei and they almost confirm people in the Government get involved in combat.
Considering CP7 had Wanze and CP6 had Jerry it absolutely means that Cipher Pol have fighters.
Whilst Jerry was seriously weak, Wanze made Sanji get a tiny bit serious for an enjoyable fight (Better in the anime tbh).
It infers to me that, Jerry in CP6 was weaker than Wanze in CP7 and that all units have members capable of serious combat.
Though at that time, those guys could be no stronger than the rank between Captain and Lt. in the Marines they were pretty wack.

I'd be really surprised if CP0 were an overall fodder unit, and I expect them to be able to give good fights going by Law's reaction.

 

[Fox666]

Considering CP9's current abilities, if you put them in the New World they would die extremely fast.
If your strongest member is Rear Admiral level in your team, and your second strongest is Commodore at best, then it doesn't look too good for you in New World.

I think you are underestimating CP9 way too much. Fisher Tiger, who had a bounty of 230 million, defeated a Rear Admiral with a kick. And the Vice-Admirals of the Buster Call seemed to have a great admiration for Rob Lucci. And didn't some of the men under Arlong to easily managed to get rid of Commodore Pudding Pudding?

 

[Ninomiya]

I think you are underestimating CP9 way too much. Fisher Tiger, who had a bounty of 230 million, defeated a Rear Admiral with a kick. And the Vice-Admirals of the Buster Call seemed to have a great admiration for Rob Lucci. And didn't some of the men under Arlong to easily managed to get rid of Commodore Pudding Pudding?

The Luffy at Marineford, would've been able to defeat Lucci more convincingly than at Enies Lobby I believe.
However in the war, Momonga and Dalmatian completely outclassed Luffy when they met him in the war. Onigumo managed to catch Marco like a bitch, and thanks to his Spider fruit can use a Hachitoryuu sword style.
Look at Vergo, the current Smoker, and more importantly the fact that all VA's have Haki.
Something which Lucci doesn't have. Lucci cannot compete with those mentioned.
Rear Admiral for him.
Lucci was awesome, but if he bumps into Marco or a Logia, he's dead due to no Haki. Easily dead.

You have to remember, Bounties don't reflect strength entirely, but reflect the danger that individual poses to the government.
I'm talking about Kaku, who once Zoro got serious, was finished instantly .
When Zoro brought out his Asura, Kaku was put to sleep.
So Rear Admiral/Commodore for him. Since he has no Haki too. I guess same for Jabra he wasn't weak either.

I expect Pre-Timeskip X Drake to have beaten Kaku and he was a RearAdmiral but I'll accept I'm underestimating Kaku and Jabra too much. Not the rest though.

Regarding Commodore Pudding, did you forget what happened? A group of fishmen created whirlpools. Nothing to do with combat.