It is say in the manga that the dragons only have a fraction of their original power (that is why they hide on the dragon slayer's body) but still Igneel manage to fight 1-1 with acnologia and he even cut his arm...
He did get the upper hand in the Manga as well, so I don't see a problem there we're just seeing more of the fight.
Anyways the answer is maybe acnologia could still rip igneel in half, but the same could be said for igneel. I don't think the strength the dragons lost is as big as people think either.
It is say in the manga that the dragons only have a fraction of their original power (that is why they hide on the dragon slayer's body) but still Igneel manage to fight 1-1 with acnologia and he even cut his arm...
Supposedly, yes, Igneel would have beaten Acnologia fairly easily at full power.
However, in my honest opinion according to logic, it makes sense for Acnologia to kick Igneel's ass because Acnologia is a hybrid. He is a Dragon and a Dragon Slayer. The slaying properties that he possesses should give him an upper hand against Igneel and prove to be a counter.
But then, Igneel is the father figure of Natsu and both of them are awarded fame in the series, so I doubt there are any facts to say Acnologia is stronger than Igneel.
It is say in the manga that the dragons only have a fraction of their original power (that is why they hide on the dragon slayer's body) but still Igneel manage to fight 1-1 with acnologia and he even cut his arm...
In my opinion, it would be a close match but Igneel would probably win at full power. Being a natural dragon will give you an advantage as opposed to a dragon slayer taking the form of a dragon. This is because dragons taught humans dragon slaying magic. I'm not stating this as a fact but the person who originally possesses a certain type of magic will usually be more powerful because they had the knowledge about it for a longer period of time. In other words, dragons already had an immense amount of natural power to start out with whereas humans acquired it later and did not have the innate ability of a dragon during birth.
Judging from the Igneel vs Acnologia fight, it seems that Igneel had quite a feat over Acnologia considering the differences in magic power before the fight. Also, humans are portrayed to be on a weaker level than dragons as Acnologia is the only dragon slayer who can defeat a dragon.
I think the main confusion here is that most people think the term "dragon slaying magic" means that they were "born" or "meant" to defeat a dragon regardless of their magical power. Yes, I know Natsu quoted that but I'm doubting his knowledge on his own power. It seems he hasn't truly found out about his identity or self in general. When he said it during the incident with Acnologia on Tenrou Island, I think it was just his way of boosting his morale. However, it seems obvious that humans are no where near the dragons and are inferior instead of "superior".
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
Given that Igneel was in a half-dead state and only had a minuscule amount of what power he used to have, I'd say it'd be a fairly easy win for Igneel. Weakened and half-dead, he fought on par with Acnologia, so that says something about how immensely powerful he must've been, so for me its Igneel fairly easily.
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
Acnologia would have to show something new to truly make him seem feared and unbeatable, I'd say he has the title of strongest human but strongest dragon would have to go to Igneel, If Igneel was at full power he would of taken off more then just one arm. If the other dragons had join in Acnologia would of died or been badly wounded allowing the humans to finish him off.
But I'm also curious about what type of magic did Acnologia use to rip out dragon souls as stated by Grandeeney. If he has some Dragon soul ripping move that he's been hiding then I'd say he could beat a full power Igneel because he was the one to put him in a half dead state.
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
What I don't understand is how the dragons could miscalculate that much? Igneel's sole purpose in hiding in Natsu's body and traveling through the eclipse gate was to defeat Acnologia.
According to the chapter, Igneel and Metalicana formed a plan to attack Acnologia when the time was "right", which was Tartaros. So when Acnologia appeared, why was Igneel the only one fighting Acnologia.
Surely Grandeeney, Skiadrum, and Weisslogia were enough to wipe out the Faces. And if they weren't, Metalicana could have helped Igneel kill Acnologia afterwards. But they didn't.
Instead, Igneel was killed, the other dragons disappeared, and Acnologia only lost 1 arm. Wasn't it the dragons' plan to ultimately defeat Acnolgoia after all.
How could they afford such a failure when it was their one and only goal?
Personally, I believe the dragons f*cked up somewhere and miscalculated so badly. Unless Igneel had some sort of weird pride that he thought he could defeat Acnolgoia single handedly at such a pitiful and weak state.
Either way, the dragons didn't prove to me that they could live up to their standards or what they were hyped up to be. Until they show me it, I call the dragons' bluff.
I mean, we know with Igneel's power, it takes 2 hits to kill Zeref. Acnologia would wipe Zeref's face off the map, so was Igneel actually that strong or was he bluffing the whole time to give humans hope and courage?
It is say in the manga that the dragons only have a fraction of their original power (that is why they hide on the dragon slayer's body) but still Igneel manage to fight 1-1 with acnologia and he even cut his arm...
nope we only saw Acnologia playing around he didnt even try to use his dragon slaying magic against Egneel, he only used his roar in that fight, i have a very suspicious feeling that when Acnologia is in his human form he is better suited at fighting dragons than when he isnt, if Egneel was in his full power Acnologia would use his DS magic and still reap out his soul and still win!
nope we only saw Acnologia playing around he didnt even try to use his dragon slaying magic against Egneel, he only used his roar in that fight, i have a very suspicious feeling that when Acnologia is in his human form he is better suited at fighting dragons than when he isnt, if Egneel was in his full power Acnologia would use his DS magic and still reap out his soul and still win!
I think you are misunderstanding something. DS=everything a dragon does to fight. So if Acnologia uses his claws then he is using DS techniques, if he uses his fangs then he is using his DS technqiues and so on.
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
Acnologia seems like the strongest based on how Igneel and the dragons made a plan to beat him.
However I do feel that Acnologia used a dragon slayers ability to reap the souls of dragons which made Igneel and the others weaker, and that's how he defeated them in the past without actually being more powerful. Acnologia then absorbed the souls and got more powerful thru reaping dragons. This ability would be something like dragon subjugation that future rogue used, as in it's a dragon slayer magic that doesn't mimic an ability of a dragon.
nope we only saw Acnologia playing around he didnt even try to use his dragon slaying magic against Egneel, he only used his roar in that fight, i have a very suspicious feeling that when Acnologia is in his human form he is better suited at fighting dragons than when he isnt, if Egneel was in his full power Acnologia would use his DS magic and still reap out his soul and still win!
I think you are misunderstanding something. DS=everything a dragon does to fight. So if Acnologia uses his claws then he is using DS techniques, if he uses his fangs then he is using his DS technqiues and so on.
Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, in that fight Egneel was using all his attacks and Acnologia wasn't he only used a roar and a headbutt, he didn't use his or should I say his DS abilities, I'm not confused about anything I just didn't explain myself properly
---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
What I don't understand is how the dragons could miscalculate that much? Igneel's sole purpose in hiding in Natsu's body and traveling through the eclipse gate was to defeat Acnologia.
According to the chapter, Igneel and Metalicana formed a plan to attack Acnologia when the time was "right", which was Tartaros. So when Acnologia appeared, why was Igneel the only one fighting Acnologia.
Surely Grandeeney, Skiadrum, and Weisslogia were enough to wipe out the Faces. And if they weren't, Metalicana could have helped Igneel kill Acnologia afterwards. But they didn't.
Instead, Igneel was killed, the other dragons disappeared, and Acnologia only lost 1 arm. Wasn't it the dragons' plan to ultimately defeat Acnolgoia after all.
How could they afford such a failure when it was their one and only goal?
Personally, I believe the dragons f*cked up somewhere and miscalculated so badly. Unless Igneel had some sort of weird pride that he thought he could defeat Acnolgoia single handedly at such a pitiful and weak state.
Either way, the dragons didn't prove to me that they could live up to their standards or what they were hyped up to be. Until they show me it, I call the dragons' bluff.
I mean, we know with Igneel's power, it takes 2 hits to kill Zeref. Acnologia would wipe Zeref's face off the map, so was Igneel actually that strong or was he bluffing the whole time to give humans hope and courage?
Let's not underestimate Igneel. Tearing off an arm is a crippling and permanent injury, and it's more than anyone else can do. I don't think Igneel was bluffing or anything. He probably genuinely believed he could defeat Acnologia. The other dragons obviously placed their faith in Igneel as well. He did, after all, knock out Acnologia after 20 minutes of fighting. He probably figured that he had Acnologia beaten at that point, and didn't think that Acnologia had enough power to get back up and keep fighting.
We also know that he was weakened when Acnologia stole his soul. Now, do I believe Igneel at full power would own Acnologia? No. However, given that they were almost equal in Tartarus, I can definitely believe Igneel at full power would have been able to push Acnologia to his limits. Maybe he would not beat Acnologia, but he should end up killing him at the cost of his life.
Re: In normal conditions would Igneel beat Acnologia?
nope we only saw Acnologia playing around he didnt even try to use his dragon slaying magic against Egneel, he only used his roar in that fight, i have a very suspicious feeling that when Acnologia is in his human form he is better suited at fighting dragons than when he isnt, if Egneel was in his full power Acnologia would use his DS magic and still reap out his soul and still win!
Acnologia needs to use Dragon Slayer magic to turn into a dragon. His dragon form is likely his dragon force. Even if you don't believe its his dragon force, turning into a dragon is still something you can only achieve by overusing dragon slayer magic. Since Acnologia's default form is his human form, he has to use magic to turn into a dragon. There's also nothing stopping a dragon from using dragon slayer magic.
Let's not underestimate Igneel. Tearing off an arm is a crippling and permanent injury, and it's more than anyone else can do. I don't think Igneel was bluffing or anything. He probably genuinely believed he could defeat Acnologia. The other dragons obviously placed their faith in Igneel as well. He did, after all, knock out Acnologia after 20 minutes of fighting. He probably figured that he had Acnologia beaten at that point, and didn't think that Acnologia had enough power to get back up and keep fighting.
We also know that he was weakened when Acnologia stole his soul. Now, do I believe Igneel at full power would own Acnologia? No. However, given that they were almost equal in Tartarus, I can definitely believe Igneel at full power would have been able to push Acnologia to his limits. Maybe he would not beat Acnologia, but he should end up killing him at the cost of his life.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Acnologia needs to use Dragon Slayer magic to turn into a dragon. His dragon form is likely his dragon force. Even if you don't believe its his dragon force, turning into a dragon is still something you can only achieve by overusing dragon slayer magic. Since Acnologia's default form is his human form, he has to use magic to turn into a dragon. There's also nothing stopping a dragon from using dragon slayer magic.
Tearing an arm off would normally be quite a feat. But we're talking Acnologia here. Acno doesn't need two arms to snap a person like a twig in 3 seconds. The dragons basically utterly failed their one and only mission.
IGNEEL, YOU ONLY HAD ONE JOB THERE, MAN!!!!!!
And Igneel had a lot of time to plan for it too....
If Igneel genuinely thought he could beat Acnologia, he must've f*cked up bad somewhere along the line, cuz his performance was pitiful. The other dragons are also at fault for putting ALL of their faith in Igneel.
You see, when you are dealing with such a high stake situation, you always have to have backup in case something goes wrong. The dragons were talking about how Acnologia was a big deal and how the situation was dire, but if that was the case, they should have seen Acnologia coming.
Cmon, Acnolgoia slayed thousands of dragons, what makes you think he can't slay 1 more? You see? The dragons failed terribly the moment they underestimated Acnologia, it was entirely their fault and there are no excuses.
As for your second paragraph, that was ANOTHER REASON for the dragons to keep their guard up, but no, they took it to lightly and miscalculated.
Also, it's true that Igneel was weakened and not at full power, but do we know if Acnologia was giving it his all?
For all we know, Acnologia could have also been toying around with Igneel, using the same amount of power Igneel was using cuz Acnologia believed he didn't need that much power to slay Igneel.
So yeah, at this point, it's fair to say that Igneel never stood a chance against Acnologia. The logic behind that stands that Acnologia was practically trained to kill a dragon. Not to mention, Acnologia was gifted with mastering that talent? How do you expect a dragon like Igneel to win?
All of you guys are saying Gray >>>>> Mard Geer cuz of Ice Devil Slaying Magic.
You are essentially saying the same thing about Acnologia and Igneel, except in this case, you forgot about it.
Igneel was never trained to slay a human LET ALONE a dragon. Dragons are supposed to be on par with dragons.
Honestly, Acnologia beating Igneel doesn't surprise me one bit.. I should've seen the expected coming...
Given all of this, anybody want to change their opinion on Acnologia vs. Igneel??
I think you're being way too harsh on Igneel and the dragons. Sure, could they have played it better? Yes. However, it's not like anyone else could step up to the plate if not for them. Given what Igneel was up against, he did pretty good. In a hand to hand combat, missing an arm is a serious disadvantage. It's a wound that others that come after him can potential exploit.
Why would Igneel have to train to slay a human? I don't get it. You need dragon slayer magic to be on the level of dragons. Acnologia was the best there is, and Igneel still gave him a run for his money. It's likely that no human dragon slayer was capable of matching Igneel. Also, Igneel was around during a time where the dragons fought civil wars with each other. Why wouldn't he know how to fight dragons? He can TEACH dragon slayer magic. Why would he not be able to use it against a dragon?
Acnologia would always win against Igneel if he could steal his soul and weaken him. However, the thread is interested in what would happen if Igneel had the ability to fight in his prime. Given the fact that he could knock out Acnologia once, and can tear off an arm...He should be able to put up even more of a fight at full power. Acnologia's rematch would only be harder, not easier.
I think you're being way too harsh on Igneel and the dragons. Sure, could they have played it better? Yes. However, it's not like anyone else could step up to the plate if not for them. Given what Igneel was up against, he did pretty good. In a hand to hand combat, missing an arm is a serious disadvantage. It's a wound that others that come after him can potential exploit.
Why would Igneel have to train to slay a human? I don't get it. You need dragon slayer magic to be on the level of dragons. Acnologia was the best there is, and Igneel still gave him a run for his money. It's likely that no human dragon slayer was capable of matching Igneel. Also, Igneel was around during a time where the dragons fought civil wars with each other. Why wouldn't he know how to fight dragons? He can TEACH dragon slayer magic. Why would he not be able to use it against a dragon?
Acnologia would always win against Igneel if he could steal his soul and weaken him. However, the thread is interested in what would happen if Igneel had the ability to fight in his prime. Given the fact that he could knock out Acnologia once, and can tear off an arm...He should be able to put up even more of a fight at full power. Acnologia's rematch would only be harder, not easier.
Don't get me wrong, I never asked Igneel or expected him to beat Acnologia. That's like me asking Gray to kill Gildartz. I'm just giving fair judgement. But you can't deny that Igneel really f*cked up bad.
You would think that Igneel would perform better in a situation that the had been seriously planning for such a long time. His performance was just pitiful.
2nd paragraph:
When we are taking Slaying into account, I'm not only talking about magic being super effective. With the slaying properties comes with exploiting your enemy's weaknesses. Dragons by mere power can potentially crush humans. But can they outsmart them?
No guarantee, the basics when fighting your opponent is identifying and gaining advantages through your opponent's weaknesses. Dragon slayers should know dragons' weaknesses like Future Rogue learning to manipulate and control dragons.
Igneel doesn't have any advantage slaying a human except that he is much bigger with a lot more magical energy.
Igneel COULD use dragon slaying magic on a dragon like Acnologia, but Acnologia also KNOWS dragon slaying magic. Which is why if you read above, I said that dragons are on par with dragons, no significant advantage.
The problem is that Igneel is only dragon while Acnologia is half dragon and half human.
3rd paragraph:
That's exactly my point. Igneel COULD NOT fight in his prime, but WAS Acnologia?
For all we know, if Igneel's prime could be a lot weaker than Acnologia in his prime.
Letting Igneel go full power does not solve the problem in this case cuz we never saw Acnologia at full power.
Don't get me wrong, I never asked Igneel or expected him to beat Acnologia. That's like me asking Gray to kill Gildartz. I'm just giving fair judgement. But you can't deny that Igneel really f*cked up bad.
You would think that Igneel would perform better in a situation that the had been seriously planning for such a long time. His performance was just pitiful.
2nd paragraph:
When we are taking Slaying into account, I'm not only talking about magic being super effective. With the slaying properties comes with exploiting your enemy's weaknesses. Dragons by mere power can potentially crush humans. But can they outsmart them?
No guarantee, the basics when fighting your opponent is identifying and gaining advantages through your opponent's weaknesses. Dragon slayers should know dragons' weaknesses like Future Rogue learning to manipulate and control dragons.
Igneel doesn't have any advantage slaying a human except that he is much bigger with a lot more magical energy.
Igneel COULD use dragon slaying magic on a dragon like Acnologia, but Acnologia also KNOWS dragon slaying magic. Which is why if you read above, I said that dragons are on par with dragons, no significant advantage.
The problem is that Igneel is only dragon while Acnologia is half dragon and half human.
3rd paragraph:
That's exactly my point. Igneel COULD NOT fight in his prime, but WAS Acnologia?
For all we know, if Igneel's prime could be a lot weaker than Acnologia in his prime.
Letting Igneel go full power does not solve the problem in this case cuz we never saw Acnologia at full power.
Honestly, he gave it his best shot. Could he have done better if the other dragons backed him up? Maybe. Or maybe they would have just gotten in his way. I don't imagine Natsu being very helpful in a fight between Tenrou Gildarts and Bluenote. Maybe the difference between dragons like Acnologia and Igneel, and the others were simply that large. Either way, out of all the enemies Acnologia has fought, Igneel did by far the most amount of damage. So, credit where credit is due to Igneel's combat skills. This thread isn't really about whether or not the dragons should have been more careful with Acnologia anyways.
Dragons are, in general, on a completely difference level than humans. What easily exploitable weakness does Acnologia have? Or for that matter, what easily exploitable weakness does Igneel have? When you're as strong as Igneel or Acnologia, you just come in like a tank and blow stuff up. You don't need fancy tricks to kill off your opponent. When Natsu was using Igneel's power, he was able to punching Zeref through a mountain and incinerating his magic. It doesn't take any special tactics to do stuff like that. It's not like Acnologia used any tricks to beat Igneel. He simply overpowered him physically. It's not like being a half human gave Acnologia a significant advantage against Igneel. He didn't use special knowledge of dragon anatomy to jujutsu him or anything. Acnologia won because he...well, he was stronger.
You can argue that some dragon slayers can develop some rather hax abilities like Dragon Supremacy Magic. Or even Acnologia's dragon soul stealing magic. However, that's not what this thread is about. The OP is asking the question if Igneel was in his prime how would he do against Acnologia in pure combat. You can argue that Acnologia wasn't going all out, but at the end of the day he still got knocked down and lost an arm. Even if Acnologia wasn't 100% serious, I doubt that he was treating the fight like a walk in the park. Any fight in which you lose a limb deserves a high-difficulty rating at the very least.
Honestly, I think Acnologia would have come out unscratched if he didn't toy with Igneel. The way I understand it, Dragon Slayer Magic can be strengthened by contact with dragon blood, and the Slayer takes some of the slain's power into themself. Acnologia's seems to take this further, by taking their souls into him as well as their power, and he more or less wiped out dragons by his lonesome, think how many souls and how much dragon blood that is, thousands of both. By the fact that killing dragons makes a Dragon Slayer stronger alone, he would far outstrip Igneel in terms of raw power, even though the guy is an Elemental Dragon King. Not to mention Acnologia had stolen his soul. Personally, I'm willing to bet some of the scars Igneel had came from Acnologia himself in a previous battle in which he truly realised the threat Acnologia represented.
Later, Acnologia goes after the remaining traces of the dragons, a year after they finally disappeared, i.e the Dragon Slayers. The ease with which he found and cut down God Serena is disturbing, which makes me think he's done that kind of thing before. In my opinion, he probably killed off all the other Dragon Slayers except for Irene, given he appeared to be unaware she was one when he fought her, as well as the dragons he caused the extinction of. That totals up to about at least a 100 other Dragon Slayers' power he's absorbed too, given it's stated that there was an army of Dragon Slayers.
Overall, I think Acnologia's cataclysmic power is the dominating factor, and if he hadn't toyed around with Igneel, he would have stomped the guy into the ground, killed him once and for all, then gone after Grandeeney, Metalicana, Weisslogia and Skiadrum to do the same to them.
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