Fantasy Gajeel Redfox vs. Gray Fullbuster

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

With Midnight, he had real weaknesses that Erza had to exploit in order to hit him. Once you got past the refraction, Midnight was easy to take out because he didn't really have high durability. Midnight also wasn't very skilled with hand to hand combat. With Gajeel, it's a whole different game. Gajeel is not interested in using hax-like abilities to shut you down. He'll brawl with you if he needs to. Gajeel's ISD provides the distinct advantage of being intangible. That provides a real advantage against physical attacks. He can hide in his opponents shadows, and launch more sneak attacks. There's also a speed advantage on top of that. Gajeel's specialty is close quarters combat, and with shadow's speed and intangibility, he can pretty much guarantee to be able to close the gap. Although stuff like intangibility or being able to hide in your opponents shadows are as important important as the basics (power, speed, and durability), they are still real physical advantages.

Unless you have an insane advantage on speed, getting hit is pretty much an inevitability of combat. With or without shadow mode, Gajeel is landing hits on Gray, and vice-versa. For example, Gajeel landed hits against Laxus when they fought. To suggest that Gray can go about the entire fight against Gajeel without getting hit once is silly. The same is true for the reverse. Shadow body isn't going to magically allow Gajeel to dodge all of Gray's attacks. It might help against some of the more telegraphed ice-make: spells, but in hand to hand combat punches are going to slip through. The only scenario in which no shots can be landed due to speed are in situations where one guy vastly outpaces the other, like with Natsu and Jellal. Gray and Gajeel? Not so much.

There's no guarantee that Fairy Law would even work on Acnologia or Zeref. And that's just it! Nobody is saying that they even can. It's a pretty silly assumption to make. Similarly, there's no guarantee that Gray's instant-freeze would work against a fully resistant opponent on the level of Gajeel. Sure, it's not an impossibility, but that's all we have to have to go on. One obvious objection to the instant-freeze is that...can Gray freeze Gajeel whilst in his shadow form?

I'm actually very split on this fight. 90% of the time I will put my cards with the side that demonstrates superior power, speed, and durability. Those are pretty much the basic factors that are essential to a fight. The other 10% of the times are with seriously haxed abilities (think Franmalth's magic absorption) or other special conditions. Stuff like shadows or instant-freeze doesn't do it for me, and neither side have really persuaded me on the basic 3.

Fair enough. Although many of you don't believe in insta-freeze, Silver did use it to freeze a flame with high magic energy which was presumably Atlas Flame's soul. This may have some disputes in itself like whether we think Gray is on Silver's level. We have no reason to believe otherwise and because Gray had one full year to master it, I don't see how he would be below Silver in this respect.

Gray probably wouldn't be able to freeze Gajeel in shadow form but for just how long will he be able to stay in it? Eventually he'll have to start attacking, meaning he has to appear in his human form again.

It's true that there is no guarantee that Gray can use insta-freeze on Gajeel but I can say the same thing. There is no guarantee that Gajeel can stay in his shadow form for long either. After all, it may require a lot of energy as we saw Gajeel use it for only a short period of time during his fight against Rogue. Also, many people tend to overhype Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Roar. It was used against Rogue who is known to have quite low durability which is based purely off of Natsu's final attack knocking the twin dragons. Sure, it looked strong but looks are deceiving which is seen in enemies like Keyes. He seemed to be top-tier as first but ended up like a fodder.

Anyways, I don't play the "if" game. My point still stands, Intelligence > Speed. Until someone can prove me wrong, I still believe Gray would win this.

So we don't give him the benefit of the doubt? Do you know how ridiculous it sounds going around saying "Gray has the same damage output on humans as he does on demons"?

Do you know how overpowered he'd be?



People always seem to use this argument, but it doesn't work.

Silver =/= Gray. Silver transferred his magic to Gray, not his feats.

Franmalth absorbed Hades' soul and got his powers. Now does that mean Franmalth = Hades? Nah.



The 7 DS couldn't even tickle the GMG dragons. Meanwhile you had Gray being super effective on demons. See the inconsistency? Judging off that, both magics clearly don't have the same properties.



Gajeel is faster, more durable, has more endurance and has intangibility. Yeaaaaaah.



>Using Tenrou Gajeel.

Gray was struggling against fodder dragon hatch-lings? Point?



Silver > Torafusa only because Silver has an advantage over Torafusa with his magic. Take that away and Silver is losing hard.



Not that great of an accomplishment since Silver was holding back. You realize Silver could've one-shotted Gray whenever it tickled his fancy?



Hmm. When's the last time you read FT?



Torafusa didn't even need air.

Just because the way Gajeel won was somewhat lucky, doesn't mean his feats all of a sudden disappear.

I don't understand your first statement. He does have the same damage output when comparing humans to demons. The amount of energy in each attack is the same. It's the attack penetration that is different. It makes sense because attack penetration essentially pierces the opponents durability which makes them more susceptible to attacks directed towards them. How would that be overpowered? Unless you meant just "damage", then I see where you're getting at. The output is the same. The outcome is different. Of course DeS magic is more effective on demons but to say that it would have no effect on humans is just absurd.

Yes, Silver transferred his power to Gray. But it eventually disappeared which is why Gray developed DeS on his own. Like I keep asking others, is there any reason to believe Gray's DeS magic is weaker than Silver's? No. So to say it is would mean you are unfairly assessing Gray's capabilities. Same for me. I wouldn't say it's stronger.

You're misunderstanding Vasgoko here. In fact, he is right. Slayer magic do have the same properties. Dragon, God, and demon slayer magics are just sub-groups. Slayer magic is one type of magic and therefore, it is the same across the board. Using the dragon and demon examples are just not comparable. You're not the only one, trust me. But you and many others fail to understand that the dragon race is superior to the demon race. This means that humans are at the level in which their powers can rival a demon's power whereas a dragon's power far exceeds a human's power. Dragon Slayers have no effect on Dragons because their raw powers don't match. Demon Slayers has an effect on Demons because their power gap is not too far away. This is why people also misunderstand Mard Geer's situation. Gray cannot beat Mard Geer. But to say he ONLY defeated him because of DeS magic is nonsense. He is clearly somewhat able to rival Mard Geer or his effect on him would be comparable to a Dragon Slayer's damage on a Dragon.

Given what events, battles, or feats has Gajeel shown to overpower Gray in durability? Sure, I can see speed but Gray has intelligence which trumps it. Intangibility is overly hyped.

Not sure about Gray struggling against dragon hatchling fodders... He died because he saved Juvia who was unaware of what was happening. Was he really shown to be overpowered by those little dragons with sweat and blood dripping? Not really... Unless we're arguing about two separate mangas/animes.

I can't say who would win between Silver and Torafusa but I see Silver having the upper hand. Besides Mard Geer, Kyōka seems to be one of the next strongest of the Nine Demon Gates and she seems to have high respects for Silver while she treats the rest like slaves. Of course this doesn't prove anything, so I'll let you argue about it.

You're right. Just because Gajeel is lucky, it does not mean his feats prove useless; however, when one becomes lucky in battle in which the outcome tips in their favor, it means the battle could have ended either way. So winning it would be classified as Extreme Difficulty which does not necessarily mean you are stronger than that opponent although you won the battle.

 

[Brandish μ]

ISD and LFD modes never last long. Gajeel would use the mode mainly so he can deal out a ISD roar and ISD offense, the intangibility is a bonus. Maybe he might use it to dodge something big.

Gray insta-freeze is a large move, can freeze attacks with ease, but not people with ease. I can't remember it stopping person at Gajeel level, it would be awesome against a demon though but not a human. Secret arts are better than insta freeze, insta freeze is probably like a roar.

ISD Gajeel > Base Gajeel >= DeS Gray > Normal Gray is how I think it is until I can tell it's different just going to use this. I am of the opinion that DeS gets inflated a lot, more than DS slaying magic sometimes. I see DS > DeS as a magic type. So I think DeS gives Gray a shot at being near the power of base Gajeel because slayer magic is to me better than non-slayer element magic; but don't think it's a reason to put Gray on par. I don't know how all the magics work just my guess. Plus I think MP/durability/endurance wise Gajeel is slightly better than Gray.

 

[BluePegasus]

Gajeel wins mid diff.

I think that Gajeel has the upper hand in a fight with Gray. It's true that Gray's Ice Devil Slayer Magic is incredible strong. But once Gajeel uses his Iron Shadow Dragon Mode, I don't think that Gray could have a chance to hit him with his spells. It wouldn't have much effect on a shadow, neither on a skin entirely made of iron.

It may be true that Gray's magic is stronger than Gajeel's. But in a fight between these two, Gray would be in a disadvantage.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

ISD and LFD modes never last long. Gajeel would use the mode mainly so he can deal out a ISD roar and ISD offense, the intangibility is a bonus. Maybe he might use it to dodge something big.

Gray insta-freeze is a large move, can freeze attacks with ease, but not people with ease. I can't remember it stopping person at Gajeel level, it would be awesome against a demon though but not a human. Secret arts are better than insta freeze, insta freeze is probably like a roar.

ISD Gajeel > Base Gajeel >= DeS Gray > Normal Gray is how I think it is until I can tell it's different just going to use this. I am of the opinion that DeS gets inflated a lot, more than DS slaying magic sometimes. I see DS > DeS as a magic type. So I think DeS gives Gray a shot at being near the power of base Gajeel because slayer magic is to me better than non-slayer element magic; but don't think it's a reason to put Gray on par. I don't know how all the magics work just my guess. Plus I think MP/durability/endurance wise Gajeel is slightly better than Gray.

I know it's your opinion, but I still fail to see Gajeel better in durability or MP. I will need more proof of this. I guess most people would think someone with a lot metal on their body would seem durable, but Gray has tanked many attacks too. I don't see Gajeel having any advantage here. Neither do I see it in MP.

Gajeel wins mid diff.

I think that Gajeel has the upper hand in a fight with Gray. It's true that Gray's Ice Devil Slayer Magic is incredible strong. But once Gajeel uses his Iron Shadow Dragon Mode, I don't think that Gray could have a chance to hit him with his spells. It wouldn't have much effect on a shadow, neither on a skin entirely made of iron.

It may be true that Gray's magic is stronger than Gajeel's. But in a fight between these two, Gray would be in a disadvantage.

Gray would be in a disadvantage on what stats? Like I said, I don't see major differences between the two unless you can point out such feats.

 

[Brandish μ]

It's just how I feel about it. Basically Gajeel and Natsu have very similar physical stats during Tartarus, and at other arcs pre-skip (Natsu slightly above). I view Gray a tier below. I will grant Gray got endurance/durability/speed feats against Silver and Mard Geer but even so I still give Gajeel the edge.

Right now in Alvarez it is a mystery who knows Gray might be stronger but going to stick with the null hypothesis that Gajeel>Gray because that's the way it has been for the series to me would need feats/evidence to support a different hypothesis like Gray = Gajeel or Gray > Gajeel.

 

[BluePegasus]

Gray would be in a disadvantage on what stats? Like I said, I don't see major differences between the two unless you can point out such feats.

He is in a disadvantage because his magic won't have any effect on Gajeel once he turns into a shadow. Gray can't do anything once Gajeel is a shadow. He is untouchable. Gajeel could hit Gray many times and turn back into his shadow over and over again. Gray's magic just can't do a lot against Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

 

[SirSamuel016]

I think it'd be a reasonably close match, but I'd say Gajeel would beat Gray. Gray's DeS magic won't have the same effect it did on the Tartarus demons as Gajeel is not a demon, and given Gajeel has a dual mode and could quite possible have access to Dragon Force now, its safe to say he has a more overwhelming power than Gray. It wouldn't be easy for either, but Gajeel should win given his dual mode would be much stronger than Ice Devil Slaying magic.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

He is in a disadvantage because his magic won't have any effect on Gajeel once he turns into a shadow. Gray can't do anything once Gajeel is a shadow. He is untouchable. Gajeel could hit Gray many times and turn back into his shadow over and over again. Gray's magic just can't do a lot against Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

Okay. I get it that Gajeel is untouchable in his shadow form but like you said, he has to return back to his normal form to hit Gray. And this is where Gray has an upper hand. Although both magic are fairly equal, ice is more effective CQC. So aside from a few Iron Dragon or Iron Shadow Dragon Attacks, Gajeel heavily relies on physical strength. The moment Gajeel touches Gray, he can just freeze Gajeel's whole body.

I think it'd be a reasonably close match, but I'd say Gajeel would beat Gray. Gray's DeS magic won't have the same effect it did on the Tartarus demons as Gajeel is not a demon, and given Gajeel has a dual mode and could quite possible have access to Dragon Force now, its safe to say he has a more overwhelming power than Gray. It wouldn't be easy for either, but Gajeel should win given his dual mode would be much stronger than Ice Devil Slaying magic.

Sure, I agree that Gray's magic won't be nearly as effective as in Tartaros like against Mard Geer who is way above Gajeel but it definitely increases Gray's stats. Slayer magic gives the user a boost and is only super effective against the race they are meant to kill. So because Gajeel is not a demon, he won't have the super effectiveness but still has a boost. Or Natsu wouldn't need to use Dragon Force on Zero, Hades, Mard Geer as they are not dragons. DF just gives Natsu a boost in power which is applied to DeS. Anyways, Gray with DeS is probably equal to ISD but it might even match a DF until I get feats that prove otherwise. ISD can be compared to LFD. So for those who think it is on the level of DF, they need to check the manga again. We also cannot assume Gajeel with DF because hype is restricted.

 

[Brandish μ]

Why is IDeS = ISD? That is a single slayer magic vs a dual mode.

I generally believe that because dragons are stronger than demons that DS > DeS. Of course it comes down to magic power, skill and physical attributes at the end of the day if 2 slayers meet; but I'm assuming for now DS is the better magic.

As for slayer magics in general they seem to allow for eating of their element, improved senses (for DS so far only), and of course a range of spells. The only time they get boosts is if they eat MP/element or they use a transformation (like dragon force). IDeS should not be assumed to give Gray improved stats apart from offense(spells).

 

[Mirage]

Just cause he hasn't froze someone noteworthy, doesn't mean he can't... That's faulty logic. Then tell me, why doesn't Makarov and Laxus make a duo tag-team and spam Fairy Law on Zeref or Acnologia over and over again... Hiro Mashima doesn't make it that easy or we will get bored of it. But push come to shove, it does not mean Gray doesn't have the capability to do it.

Either way, like I said, even without insta-freeze, Gray seems to still have the upper hand by a little bit. See if you can counter me there.

So going by what you say, Gray can just freeze anyone and win? I don't think that's how it works. Gray hasn't even froze a Lucy level opponent yet, but for some reason he can just freeze Gajeel?

He has to show that he can at least freeze someone that's on par with Gajeel. All I'm seeing here is people giving Gray the benefit of the doubt that he can just freeze things and win.

If we're talking about someone like Silver freezing Gajeel, then I can agree to that, because he's shown us readers that he can casually insta-freeze people.

Gray on the other hand, hasn't even shown us that he can freeze people shut that aren't fodder. I'm just not giving him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Don't think I'm saying anything unreasonable here.

I don't understand your first statement. He does have the same damage output when comparing humans to demons. The amount of energy in each attack is the same. It's the attack penetration that is different. It makes sense because attack penetration essentially pierces the opponents durability which makes them more susceptible to attacks directed towards them. How would that be overpowered?

You're right here, seems my wording was off. Excuse me.

Unless you meant just "damage", then I see where you're getting at. The output is the same. The outcome is different. Of course DeS magic is more effective on demons but to say that it would have no effect on humans is just absurd.

Well, I never said that it would have no effect on humans whatsoever. I'd say it's Ice Make level effective on humans until proven otherwise. That's a reasonable assumption. Saying that it would be below Ice Make level on humans would be too much.

Yes, Silver transferred his power to Gray. But it eventually disappeared which is why Gray developed DeS on his own. Like I keep asking others, is there any reason to believe Gray's DeS magic is weaker than Silver's? No. So to say it is would mean you are unfairly assessing Gray's capabilities. Same for me. I wouldn't say it's stronger.

And this is why I don't give any character the benefit of the doubt until proven with solid feats.

You're misunderstanding Vasgoko here. In fact, he is right. Slayer magic do have the same properties. Dragon, God, and demon slayer magics are just sub-groups. Slayer magic is one type of magic and therefore, it is the same across the board. Using the dragon and demon examples are just not comparable. You're not the only one, trust me. But you and many others fail to understand that the dragon race is superior to the demon race. This means that humans are at the level in which their powers can rival a demon's power whereas a dragon's power far exceeds a human's power. Dragon Slayers have no effect on Dragons because their raw powers don't match. Demon Slayers has an effect on Demons because their power gap is not too far away. This is why people also misunderstand Mard Geer's situation. Gray cannot beat Mard Geer. But to say he ONLY defeated him because of DeS magic is nonsense. He is clearly somewhat able to rival Mard Geer or his effect on him would be comparable to a Dragon Slayer's damage on a Dragon.

At the end of the day, it's still an inconsistency though.

DS magic works fine on humans and couldn't tickle dragons.

DeS magic was super effective on demons and for all we know, could be piss weak against humans.

See? One magic did its job and the other didn't. The only time we see DS magic being consistent to what it's supposed to do is when Acno slayed a bunch of dragons and bathed in their blood.

Given what events, battles, or feats has Gajeel shown to overpower Gray in durability? Sure, I can see speed but Gray has intelligence which trumps it. Intangibility is overly hyped.

I don't see one stat where Gray surpasses Gajeel in except for maybe intelligence, which ultimately won't win you a fight by itself. I could understand if Gajeel was just plain stupid, but that's not the case.

It's like saying Gray wins against Natsu solely because he's smarter.

As long as you're combat smart, you're ready to go.

Not sure about Gray struggling against dragon hatchling fodders... He died because he saved Juvia who was unaware of what was happening. Was he really shown to be overpowered by those little dragons with sweat and blood dripping? Not really... Unless we're arguing about two separate mangas/animes.

He was fighting them the whole time, meanwhile Gajeel was fighting a dragon.

I brought that up because Vasgoko was trying to downplay Gajeel and say " Gajeel was struggling against fodder who are Yomazu and Kawazu" when clearly they weren't fodder if they were damaging Gajeel.

Well, Kawazu was fodder but not Yomazu.

I can't say who would win between Silver and Torafusa but I see Silver having the upper hand. Besides Mard Geer, Kyōka seems to be one of the next strongest of the Nine Demon Gates and she seems to have high respects for Silver while she treats the rest like slaves. Of course this doesn't prove anything, so I'll let you argue about it.

Silver would win most of the time in different scenarios because of his advantageous magic.

You're right. Just because Gajeel is lucky, it does not mean his feats prove useless; however, when one becomes lucky in battle in which the outcome tips in their favor, it means the battle could have ended either way. So winning it would be classified as Extreme Difficulty which does not necessarily mean you are stronger than that opponent although you won the battle.

ISD Gajeel was slapping Torafusa around, so it wasn't really all that lucky. It still portrayed that ISD Gajeel had the power to beat Torafusa even though he got some air from Levy. He only turned Steel mode at the end when he slashed Torafusa with Steel Dragon's sword.

 

[Vasgoko]

Alright, first, I'll point out a few things.

1) None of you have convinced me yet as your arguments are one sided and biased. I have given you countless proofs to your question, but you refuse them and instead, you give me nothing but biased opinions. (not mad..)

2) It doesn't seem like I can convince you guys either as you are dead set. My only way to prove it is to wait and hope for future battle that will prove Gray > Gajeel. I hope Alvarez Arc does justice to the IDSM bullshit theories you guys are coming up with. (not mad..)




@Holt:

No, Im sorry dude, but what you dont seem to understand is that it has nothing to do with effectiveness to begin with. I didnt bring that up and I didn't like it, but I had to prove my point. IDSM is no difference to humans than it is with other regular magic. It's not about effectiveness. ALL the other slayers magic have done extremely well against humans INCLUDING SILVER.


@everybody else

LISTEN GUYS. Go back to your post. Look at what you typed. You guys said "HOW IS IDSM ON HUMANS". Gray had nothing to do with that post.

SO, I gave your guys my proof. Silver's IDSM was EFFECTIVE ON HUMANS aka on GRAY.

So, IDSM DOES CAUSE SEVERE DAMAGE ON HUMANS.

It's freakin bullshit to say Gray is newer to the magic cuz if you compare Igneel to Natsu, then Natsu is a freakin little bud that just sprouted from the ground.

Magic effectiveness has nothing to do with the user. EFFECTIVENESS by definition is how well it works against something. Not who is using it.

So enough with this IDSM effectiveness bullshit. I don't see you guys winning on any of these evidence.


@Chaos @Coné


Alright, both of you, enough with the NLF bullshit and how you scale your BS.

IDSM instafreezing has proven to be effective to many other forms that ARE NOT DEMONS. Im going to give you a list that you cant argue back.


List of people/forms (including humans) that IDSM instafreezing has been effective on:


- Natsu
- Ajeel's sand creations
- Goummon or whatever that Avatar fodder was
- Sun Village Titans
- Atlas Flame


So yes, it has been effective time and time again. It has nothing to do with Gray and Silver. None of you have proof of how long Silver has been an IDeS. Gray has already had it for well over one whole year.

Silver never had black marks on his body. Gray has HAD them an learned to CONTROL them. Imho, Gray has well surpassed his dead old man since 1 year ago.


As for Chaos, when you mentioned instafreezing Acnologia and Zeref.....

IS GAJEEL ON ACNOLOGIA'S AND ZEREF'S LEVEL?

NO!

Why can't Makarov use Fairy Law on Acnologia and Zeref? HUH? Fairy Law has proven to work.

You see what Im talking about? You are asking illogical situations. Otherwise this manga only lasts 2 chapters.

Gajeel is nowhere near Acnologia and Zeref.

And for the last time, Gray doesn't need instafreezing to kill Gajeel.






Gajeel's ISD Roar has only shown to be effective on Rogue, who is pretty damn weak compared to everyone else. We know Gray >>>Rogue.

So, @Coné tell me, using your NLF BS, how do you know ISD Roar is effective against Gray?

 

[Mirage]

I can't believe you call me biased.

Looks like you didn't read what I wrote. I provided enough statements to debunk everything you said.

Proof? What proof? All your proof is giving the benefit of the doubt to your favorite character.

 

[Coné]

This man doesn't know what NLF is NLF only applies to hax. ISD roar is a DC move.

I'll reply to that later, but at least check OBD wiki or something because NLF is a basic notion in cross verse battles and versus threads in general.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Why is IDeS = ISD? That is a single slayer magic vs a dual mode.

I'm not saying for certain that DeS = ISD but you have no proof to say that it is stronger either. Just because it is a dual mode, it does not mean it loses to a single mode. Sure, it has more properties but I don't see metal or shadow countering ice. As for single mode, it might be beneficial as the user has only one element to focus his/her power on. You are not making a valid comparison. Let me explain myself.

You are able to say Gajeel's dual mode is stronger than his single mode. That is valid because you are comparing him as the same character. Just like LFD Natsu > Base Natsu, etc. Now the problem with saying that dual mode are usually stronger than single mode is that it may not be true. There aren't that many characters with dual modes so this will be difficult to compare. However, dual mode essentially means that the user is combining two elements of magic. Am I right? If you disagree, please explain to me what you think of it as.

I can say that Gray DeS magic is stronger than LFD Natsu but I know this idea will be rejected immediately. Therefore, I will use examples of magic combining instead of actual dual modes in which there is a lack of characters who have it. Let's use Sting and Rogue's Unison Raid which is better known as Holy Shadow Dragon's Flash Fang. Is it stronger than Gray's lce Devil Slaying Magic? Can't say for sure but I wouldn't say it is definitely stronger. Next is Rufus' Memory-Make: Sword of Frozen Black Lightning. It sure did look strong but would it match Gray's Ice Devil Slaying Magic? Probably not, considering that Gray > Rufus. If you disagree, this will be a whole separate topic. Lastly, would Juvia and Gray's Unison Raid be stronger than if Gray just used his Ice Devil Slaying Magic? Probably not, but again, this is subjective. In the end, I am not saying that DeS > ISD but saying ISD < DeS has no evidence to back it up either. Now going back to my point earlier.

I generally believe that because dragons are stronger than demons that DS > DeS. Of course it comes down to magic power, skill and physical attributes at the end of the day if 2 slayers meet; but I'm assuming for now DS is the better magic.

This is also not necessarily true. Yes, dragons are stronger than demons. Slayer magic just gives the user an improved effectiveness on the race they are meant to kill. We saw DS have really no effect on Dragons. Then we saw that DeS had quite an effect on Demons. This just tells us that Dragons > Demons and that the raw power to match a dragon far exceeds the raw power to match a demon. It does not imply that DS is greater than DeS. If it did, then it would backfire and we can jokingly say that dragon slayers are overrated because they possess the strongest type of slayer magic, yet they can't scratch a dragon.

As for slayer magics in general they seem to allow for eating of their element, improved senses (for DS so far only), and of course a range of spells. The only time they get boosts is if they eat MP/element or they use a transformation (like dragon force). IDeS should not be assumed to give Gray improved stats apart from offense(spells).

**EDIT: Misinterpreted Silver's Words.

 

[Mirage]

IDSM instafreezing has proven to be effective to many other forms that ARE NOT DEMONS. Im going to give you a list that you cant argue back.

The thing you don't understand is, is that Gray freezing characters isn't out of the question. I'm just not giving Gray the benefit of the doubt that he can freeze anyone and win.

When Gray FREEZES someone that's on Gajeel's calibur, then we can say Gray can freeze Gajeel and win. Has Gray done something like that yet? No. Please read through this carefully.

List of people/forms (including humans) that IDSM instafreezing has been effective on:

Let's do this. I'll keep you in check.

- Natsu

Last time I checked, Silver froze Natsu.

Now before you say something like "Gray has Silver's powers so he can do the same things Silver did".

Silver transferred his MAGIC to Gray, not his feats. I can't tell how many times I've debunked this statement.

- Ajeel's sand creations

Gajeel >>> some random fodder sand creations. And either way, they weren't even frozen solid. They broke out of it 2 seconds later. Gray's ice doesn't seem that potent so far.

- Goummon or whatever that Avatar fodder was

Again, Gajeel >>>>> some fodder in avatar.

- Sun Village Titans

Again, Silver's feat.

- Atlas Flame

Silver's feat again.

All you're doing is giving Silver's feats to Gray, it doesn't work like that.

I've said multiple times that Gray has only frozen fodder. That doesn't mean he's freezing Gajeel.

So yes, it has been effective time and time again. It has nothing to do with Gray and Silver. None of you have proof of how long Silver has been an IDeS. Gray has already had it for well over one whole year.

If you would read what I'm typing, then you see that I have enough proof.

Silver never had black marks on his body. Gray has HAD them an learned to CONTROL them. Imho, Gray has well surpassed his dead old man since 1 year ago.

Sure, but he still doesn't have feats that surpass his father's. Your entire argument is revolved around hype and giving Silver's feats to Gray.

As for Chaos, when you mentioned instafreezing Acnologia and Zeref.....

IS GAJEEL ON ACNOLOGIA'S AND ZEREF'S LEVEL?

NO!

What's your point? Gray still can't freeze anyone until proven otherwise. Freezing fodders ain't going to cut it.

Why can't Makarov use Fairy Law on Acnologia and Zeref? HUH? Fairy Law has proven to work.

What on Earth are you talking about?

What does FL have to do with DeS? Whatever point you were trying to make, FL >> DeS.

You see what Im talking about? You are asking illogical situations. Otherwise this manga only lasts 2 chapters.

I don't see what you mean. All you do is just give Gray feats he doesn't have. While I'm sitting here patiently, waiting for Gray to get feats on humans so we can actually judge how strong DeS is.

Gajeel is nowhere near Acnologia and Zeref.

I never stated such a thing.

And for the last time, Gray doesn't need instafreezing to kill Gajeel.

Lol yes he does. He's not winning without it.

Gajeel > Gray in all other stats.

Gajeel's ISD Roar has only shown to be effective on Rogue, who is pretty damn weak compared to everyone else. We know Gray >>>Rogue.

Possessed Rogue > Gray. He stomped Base Gajeel with no effort.

ISD Roar is still > anything Gray has in his arsenal.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

So going by what you say, Gray can just freeze anyone and win? I don't think that's how it works. Gray hasn't even froze a Lucy level opponent yet, but for some reason he can just freeze Gajeel?

He has to show that he can at least freeze someone that's on par with Gajeel. All I'm seeing here is people giving Gray the benefit of the doubt that he can just freeze things and win.

If we're talking about someone like Silver freezing Gajeel, then I can agree to that, because he's shown us readers that he can casually insta-freeze people.

Gray on the other hand, hasn't even shown us that he can freeze people shut that aren't fodder. I'm just not giving him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Don't think I'm saying anything unreasonable here.

Now don't be too quick in your assumptions. I already said that if you guys don't like insta-freezing, Gray doesn't have to use it. He can freeze during close quarters combat which Gajeel heavily relies on. Proof that he can? Well did I ever say full body freezing? No. So use Gray vs. Ultear during Tenrou Island. Gray froze Ultear in the water. Maybe not her whole body but enough to immobilize her. I know you guys are so persistent so you'll just say that Ultear is weak and start underrating her to win the argument. Just know that she is arguably the strongest out of the 7 Kin of Purgatory. Azuma is overhyped in my eyes.

Well, I never said that it would have no effect on humans whatsoever. I'd say it's Ice Make level effective on humans until proven otherwise. That's a reasonable assumption. Saying that it would be below Ice Make level on humans would be too much.



And this is why I don't give any character the benefit of the doubt until proven with solid feats.

Okay, it did not happen so we can't say anything about it. It is a mute point then but if I can't say it has an effect, you can't say it has no effect. If you use logic though, tell me what makes different sub-groups of slayer magic different. They are still the same type of magic. Just like wind magic for example. We have god slaying and dragon slaying wind magic. Both are still magic though. The properties don't change. Therefore, why does Natsu use Dragon Force on enemies that are not dragons? Because it boosts his stats. Because he is a dragon slayer, a dragon force would boost his dragon slaying attacks by a fair bit in power. This is logically the same as DeS except that I get a feeling that bias is present. Note that I am not talking about you specifically. Don't take offense here. There are at least 5 others in the same boat as you.

At the end of the day, it's still an inconsistency though.

DS magic works fine on humans and couldn't tickle dragons.

DeS magic was super effective on demons and for all we know, could be piss weak against humans.

See? One magic did its job and the other didn't. The only time we see DS magic being consistent to what it's supposed to do is when Acno slayed a bunch of dragons and bathed in their blood.

You're still failing to understand the essence and logic of slaying magic. Yes, DS magic works on humans and dragons. Dragons just have a far higher gap in raw power than humans. Same with DeS magic. It works on demons, yet we can say that it is neutral to humans, although, using the analogy of Dragon Slaying Magic and God Slaying Magic, it should be the same, unless we are using bias to win the argument.

Many people are also not understanding this. Slaying magic gives the user a boost in stats and super effectiveness the race they are meant to kill. Sorry if this is redundant but it is still not getting through people's brains. Now how can I be so sure that slayer magic gives the user a boost in stats? Its simple.

Because what types of magic do slayer mages use? Slayer magic... Pretty obvious right? Why do God Slayers and Dragon Slayers use magic boosts like DF on opponents that are not Gods or Dragons respectively? If their opponents are neither gods or dragons, DF shouldn't really help right? But they somehow seem stronger. Maybe boost in stats? Maybe not??? There, counter my argument here because I think the answer is obvious...

I don't see one stat where Gray surpasses Gajeel in except for maybe intelligence, which ultimately won't win you a fight by itself. I could understand if Gajeel was just plain stupid, but that's not the case.

Yeah, intelligence won't win you a fight or Freed/Levy would be owning everyone by now. The reason is because Freed and Levy lose to most top-class Fairy Tail mages in speed, durability, and power. Now like I said, Gajeel has the upper hand in speed but that doesn't do anything when he ties with Gray in every other characteristic besides intelligence.

It's like saying Gray wins against Natsu solely because he's smarter.

As long as you're combat smart, you're ready to go.

Difference here is that Natsu most likely outclasses him in power. I'd say they are the same in speed and durability but don't argue with me on this because this is not the right thread to discuss it. If you really want to say something, you can have the last word as I don't like going into Natsu vs. Gray threads because the conditions and feats/hype vary a lot here. Just know I probably won't reply to Natsu vs. Gray topics.

Yes, Gajeel might be combat smart not nearly as much as Gray whom we saw counter Ultear while she used OP magic in which she can nullify any non-living element which is essentially Gray's magic. But we saw Gray outsmart her in which I believe because metal has many counters, Gray will most likely be able to counter him.

He was fighting them the whole time, meanwhile Gajeel was fighting a dragon.

He was fighting them the whole time and killed them... But did Gajeel do damage to the real dragon? Nope. Therefore, we can say nothing about that except that they are probably the same in power.

I brought that up because Vasgoko was trying to downplay Gajeel and say " Gajeel was struggling against fodder who are Yomazu and Kawazu" when clearly they weren't fodder if they were damaging Gajeel.

Well, Kawazu was fodder but not Yomazu.

I still agree with Vasgoko here. Once again, this is not to you only. I truly am only saying this on your post because you replied to me but this is hopefully for everyone that reads this. Yomazu and Kawazu are both portrayed to be fodders whether you like it or not. Grimoire Heart sent them in to scout which tells us of their strength. You can defend Gajeel here but you would be bias as he lost fair and square just like when Gray lost to Bickslow. Does that mean they are both weak? No, but it does not tell us who is stronger because this was most likely used for plot reasons just like Gray losing to Bickslow which I don't deny happening by the way. Like I said, I'm fair when assessing these situations but we shouldn't really count this for either of them as they each had their own fair share of losses.

Silver would win most of the time in different scenarios because of his advantageous magic.



ISD Gajeel was slapping Torafusa around, so it wasn't really all that lucky. It still portrayed that ISD Gajeel had the power to beat Torafusa even though he got some air from Levy. He only turned Steel mode at the end when he slashed Torafusa with Steel Dragon's sword.

These are they same types of comments that I see and disagree with strongly. Advantageous magic does affect the outcome but should not give us the implication that the user is lucky and solely relying on the power to defeat an enemy. I already said this a lot but I'm quickly going to say it again. If the wizard who is using slaying magic is definitely outclassed, by their opponent, the magic would be useless.

I'm not going to argue about Silver vs. Torafusa, so if others want to argue about this, I'll stay out of it as we can't really say who the victor would be. I do have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself. We can't deny, however, that Silver is a noteworthy mage and looking at the character cards provided by Hiro Mashima, they both seem to be pretty strong.

 

[Brandish μ]

I'm not saying for certain that DeS = ISD but you have no proof to say that it is stronger either. Just because it is a dual mode, it does not mean it loses to a signle mode. Sure, it has more properties but I don't see metal or shadow countering ice. As for single mode, it might be beneficial as the user has only one element to focus his/her power on. You are not making a valid comparison. Let me explain myself.

You are able to say Gajeel's dual mode is stronger than his single mode. That is valid because you are comparing him as the same character. Just like LFD Natsu > Base Natsu, etc. Now the problem with saying that dual mode are usually stronger than single mode is that it may not be true. There aren't that many characters with dual modes so this will be difficult to compare. However, dual mode essentially means that the user is combining two types of magic. Am I right? If you disagree, please explain to me what you think of it as.

I can say that Gray DeS magic is stronger than LFD Natsu but I know this idea will be rejected immediately. Therefore, I will use examples of magic combining instead of actual dual modes in which there is a lack of characters who have it. Let's use Sting and Rogue's Unison Raid which is better known as Holy Shadow Dragon's Flash Fang. Is it stronger than Gray's lce Devil Slaying Magic? Can't say for sure but I wouldn't say it is definitely stronger. Next is Rufus' Memory-Make: Sword of Frozen Black Lightning. It sure did look strong but would it match Gray's Ice Devil Slaying Magic? Probably not, considering that Gray > Rufus. If you disagree, this will be a whole separate topic. Lastly, would Juvia and Gray's Unison Raid be stronger than if Gray just used his Ice Devil Slaying Magic? Probably not, but again, this is subjective. In the end, I am not saying that DeS > ISD but saying ISD < DeS has no evidence to back it up either. Now going back to my point earlier.

As a magic type we've see dual modes have greater damage output then single modes for Natsu/Gajeel. You stated that you think ISD = IDSM, but have not given an explanation as to why. Please note I am referring to this as a magic type, or set of spells if you will (assume Gray and Gajeel have equal MP/stats for argument sake). The only way I see IDSM being on par is if devil slaying magic is better than single mode DS, because we've seen dual mode as superior so far.

Of course I'm talking about magic type here, but if you're referring to Gray vs Gajeel and assuming Gray is stronger magically then that's fine. For instance a single mode user like Laxus would beat Gajeel's dual mode, coz Laxus is stronger in every way.

I see dual mode as allowing the user to use two magics at once. This allows for more power output (more MP use as well) and therefore generating greater offense. For example LFD secret techs are above FD secret techs. To me IDSM has no greater capacity to put out power than Iron DS magic. So like I said previously ISD > ID >= IDSM > IM and I've give reasons why I believe this to be the case. We don't get evidence until Mashima provides, so I have provided my reasons.

That unison raid paragraph... no matter what magic is used (DeS, ISD, Heavenly Body magic, Unison Raid etc etc) the spells power is drawn from the caster(s) and it comes down to how much MP is put in, and what the spell can actually do. That whole paragraph really doesn't do anything for the discussion of magic types (ISD vs IDSM). If any one of those unison raids you mentioned has greater power in it than a DeS spell that Gray uses, I will run with the unison raid winning. Similarly if Grays DeS spell has more MP it will win. Spells at the end of the day are about power output and input.

This is also not necessarily true. Yes, dragons are stronger than demons. Slayer magic just gives the user an improved effectiveness on the race they are meant to kill. We saw DS have really no effect on Dragons. Then we saw that DeS had quite an effect on Demons. This just tells us that Dragons > Demons and that the raw power to match a dragon far exceeds the raw power to match a demon. It does not imply that DS is greater than DeS. If it did, then it would backfire and we can jokingly say that dragon slayers are overrated because they possess the strongest type of slayer magic, yet they can't scratch a dragon.

DS and DeS magic don't have to work the same. The anti-demon abilities of DeS could be greater than the anti-dragon abilities of DS magic, but this is not a factor of power output this is a quality of their magic; OR how it would work on humans for example (a standard for argument sake). We have the notion that Dragon Slaying Magic gives the user a power of a dragon. This would be achieved through dragon force. Natsu shows his power improvement through DF. Acnologia shows it to a greater extent. By using this DS magic is supreme because dragons are superior. So far the extent of DeS magic is that it is super effective against demons, but no indications that it is on par with dragon slayer magic against humans. I've given my reasons to why I think DS > DeS.

See, eating their own element would actualy be more of an advantage for Gray than Gajeel which further proves our point that Gray can defeat Gajeel. Gajeel can only eat metal surrounding him, not the one he provides himself. Eventually that will run out because if you specifically look at the location, it is the Ruins of the Tartaros Battlefield. Therefore, it is like a non-renewable resource in a sense. On the contrary, Gray can eat his own element that is made from his own hands. This is essentially a perpetual resource or renewable resource. Hence, Gray can keep eating it to resupply his energy. Honestly, I think Vasgoko was a little clever in deciding these conditions. This battle definitely favors Gray. I don't ever use bias in my opinions and it seems that I see that a lot here.

- Has Laxus ever re-supplied himself with his lightning magic? (he uses lightning magic as well as LDS). Don't tell me you're going to say 'is it proven that he can't?' OR maybe 'DS might not be able to but DeS can'. Perpetual re-fueling of magic is an extraordinary proposition, one that would need evidence or very sound reasoning to support if we're being reasonable in discussion. As far as perpetual magic goes there is only one and that is Fairy Heart. Or maybe Gray/Laxus could solo Alvarez/Acnologia as they could be infinitely powerful? Are Gray/Laxus going to be back-ups for Fairy Heart if Zeref cannot get his former love back?
- To add to the above, if Gray has xMP inside him and then casts yMP of Ice Make, and then eats the Ice Make, shouldn't the transaction be 0? (ie xMP - yMP + yMP = xMP)
- A 'clever' condition would be in an icy climate
- Battle favors Gray if his power/stats are superior, which determines most battles.

 

[Coné]

Now don't be too quick in your assumptions. I already said that if you guys don't like insta-freezing, Gray doesn't have to use it. He can freeze during close quarters combat which Gajeel heavily relies on. Proof that he can? Well did I ever say full body freezing? No. So use Gray vs. Ultear during Tenrou Island. Gray froze Ultear in the water. Maybe not her whole body but enough to immobilize her. I know you guys are so persistent so you'll just say that Ultear is weak and start underrating her to win the argument. Just know that she is arguably the strongest out of the 7 Kin of Purgatory. Azuma is overhyped in my eyes.

> Comparing Tenrou Ultear with Tartaros Gajeel who beat one of the strongest 9DG
> Missing the point that Ultear is a mid-ranged fighter and Gajeel is a physical monster.

Okay, it did not happen so we can't say anything about it. It is a mute point then but if I can't say it has an effect, you can't say it has no effect. If you use logic though, tell me what makes different sub-groups of slayer magic different. They are still the same type of magic. Just like wind magic for example. We have god slaying and dragon slaying wind magic. Both are still magic though. The properties don't change. Therefore, why does Natsu use Dragon Force on enemies that are not dragons? Because it boosts his stats. Because he is a dragon slayer, a dragon force would boost his dragon slaying attacks by a fair bit in power. This is logically the same as DeS except that I get a feeling that bias is present. Note that I am not talking about you specifically. Don't take offense here. There are at least 5 others in the same boat as you.

> Trying to compare Gray obtaining DeS with Natsu getting Dragon Force.
> Gray only boosted attack potency with DeS.

You're still failing to understand the essence and logic of slaying magic. Yes, DS magic works on humans and dragons. Dragons just have a far higher gap in raw power than humans. Same with DeS magic. It works on demons, yet we can say that it is neutral to humans, although, using the analogy of Dragon Slaying Magic and God Slaying Magic, it should be the same, unless we are using bias to win the argument.

> Then again, how are we going to know how effective DeS is against humans? We can't, so we don't use DeS feats against demons, because it's safer to not give the benefit of doubt.

Many people are also not understanding this. Slaying magic gives the user a boost in stats and super effectiveness the race they are meant to kill. Sorry if this is redundant but it is still not getting through people's brains. Now how can I be so sure that slayer magic gives the user a boost in stats? Its simple.

> When was it stated that it gave a boost in stats? Did Gray get any faster or more durable after obtaining DeS?

Because what types of magic do slayer mages use? Slayer magic... Pretty obvious right? Why do God Slayers and Dragon Slayers use magic boosts like DF on opponents that are not Gods or Dragons respectively? If their opponents are neither gods or dragons, DF shouldn't really help right? But they somehow seem stronger. Maybe boost in stats? Maybe not??? There, counter my argument here because I think the answer is obvious...

> Dragon Force is a power boost the Dragon Slayers have access to, so that's the characteristic of the magic itself and it can't be compared to DeS until shown that it can.

Yeah, intelligence won't win you a fight or Freed/Levy would be owning everyone by now. The reason is because Freed and Levy lose to most top-class Fairy Tail mages in speed, durability, and power. Now like I said, Gajeel has the upper hand in speed but that doesn't do anything when he ties with Gray in every other characteristic besides intelligence.

> How does Gajeel tie with Gray on other stats?

Difference here is that Natsu most likely outclasses him in power. I'd say they are the same in speed and durability but don't argue with me on this because this is not the right thread to discuss it. If you really want to say something, you can have the last word as I don't like going into Natsu vs. Gray threads because the conditions and feats/hype vary a lot here. Just know I probably won't reply to Natsu vs. Gray topics.

> So does ISD Gajeel in speed, defense, DC, durability, etc.

Yes, Gajeel might be combat smart not nearly as much as Gray whom we saw counter Ultear while she used OP magic in which she can nullify any non-living element which is essentially Gray's magic. But we saw Gray outsmart her in which I believe because metal has many counters, Gray will most likely be able to counter him.

> Speculating that he'll be able to counter it without giving further reasoning.

He was fighting them the whole time and killed them... But did Gajeel do damage to the real dragon? Nope. Therefore, we can say nothing about that except that they are probably the same in power.

> Non-factor to the match-up because those were GMG versions of these characters.

I still agree with @Vasgoko here. Once again, this is not to you only. I truly am only saying this on your post because you replied to me but this is hopefully for everyone that reads this. Yomazu and Kawazu are both portrayed to be fodders whether you like it or not. Grimoire Heart sent them in to scout which tells us of their strength. You can defend Gajeel here but you would be bias as he lost fair and square just like when Gray lost to Bickslow. Does that mean they are both weak? No, but it does not tell us who is stronger because this was most likely used for plot reasons just like Gray losing to Bickslow which I don't deny happening by the way. Like I said, I'm fair when assessing these situations but we shouldn't really count this for either of them as they each had their own fair share of losses.

> Tenrou Gajeel =/= Tartaros Gajeel

These are they same types of comments that I see and disagree with strongly. Advantageous magic does affect the outcome but should not give us the implication that the user is lucky and solely relying on the power to defeat an enemy. I already said this a lot but I'm quickly going to say it again. If the wizard who is using slaying magic is definitely outclassed, by their opponent, the magic would be useless.

I'm not going to argue about Silver vs. Torafusa, so if others want to argue about this, I'll stay out of it as we can't really say who the victor would be. I do have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself. We can't deny, however, that Silver is a noteworthy mage and looking at the character cards provided by Hiro Mashima, they both seem to be pretty strong.

> They're around the same level of power and I've already explained why A > B > C doesn't work

 

[Mirage]

Now don't be too quick in your assumptions. I already said that if you guys don't like insta-freezing, Gray doesn't have to use it. He can freeze during close quarters combat which Gajeel heavily relies on. Proof that he can? Well did I ever say full body freezing? No. So use Gray vs. Ultear during Tenrou Island. Gray froze Ultear in the water. Maybe not her whole body but enough to immobilize her. I know you guys are so persistent so you'll just say that Ultear is weak and start underrating her to win the argument. Just know that she is arguably the strongest out of the 7 Kin of Purgatory. Azuma is overhyped in my eyes.

Key words: Gray froze Ultear in the water.

What are the chances of Gray and Gajeel happening to be by water in their battle? This is getting ridiculous.

Bottom line is, Gray can't freeze anyone that's not fodder, because that's all Gray's been doing. Unless you think Gajeel = fodder in avatar and fodder sand creations.

Okay, it did not happen so we can't say anything about it. It is a mute point then but if I can't say it has an effect, you can't say it has no effect. If you use logic though, tell me what makes different sub-groups of slayer magic different. They are still the same type of magic. Just like wind magic for example. We have god slaying and dragon slaying wind magic. Both are still magic though. The properties don't change. Therefore, why does Natsu use Dragon Force on enemies that are not dragons? Because it boosts his stats. Because he is a dragon slayer, a dragon force would boost his dragon slaying attacks by a fair bit in power. This is logically the same as DeS except that I get a feeling that bias is present. Note that I am not talking about you specifically. Don't take offense here. There are at least 5 others in the same boat as you.

I don't even understand your point here since it doesn't even relate to my quote saying how DeS is Ice Make level on humans until proven otherwise with feats. Where's the bias? That's reasonable.

You're still failing to understand the essence and logic of slaying magic. Yes, DS magic works on humans and dragons. Dragons just have a far higher gap in raw power than humans. Same with DeS magic. It works on demons, yet we can say that it is neutral to humans, although, using the analogy of Dragon Slaying Magic and God Slaying Magic, it should be the same, unless we are using bias to win the argument.

How is it bias? You're throwing around this word too much now and it frankly doesn't make sense with what you're saying.

It's just not giving anything the benefit of the doubt using the inconsistency the Slayer magics displayed as a basis. All magics should be the same, as you said, but that's not proven.

I don't understand why we simply can't wait a couple chapters and see some DeS feats for ourselves instead of using inaccurate hype and other ridiculous things. Right now, nothing is conclusive and set in stone.

Many people are also not understanding this. Slaying magic gives the user a boost in stats and super effectiveness the race they are meant to kill. Sorry if this is redundant but it is still not getting through people's brains. Now how can I be so sure that slayer magic gives the user a boost in stats? Its simple.

Because what types of magic do slayer mages use? Slayer magic... Pretty obvious right? Why do God Slayers and Dragon Slayers use magic boosts like DF on opponents that are not Gods or Dragons respectively? If their opponents are neither gods or dragons, DF shouldn't really help right? But they somehow seem stronger. Maybe boost in stats? Maybe not??? There, counter my argument here because I think the answer is obvious...

Don't know if you're talking to me here, but I never denied this.

Yeah, intelligence won't win you a fight or Freed/Levy would be owning everyone by now. The reason is because Freed and Levy lose to most top-class Fairy Tail mages in speed, durability, and power. Now like I said, Gajeel has the upper hand in speed but that doesn't do anything when he ties with Gray in every other characteristic besides intelligence.

Gajeel absolutely does not tie with Gray in every other stat. Gajeel has nearly all stats over Gray except for "intelligence" as you said, which doesn't mean much in a battle.

Difference here is that Natsu most likely outclasses him in power. I'd say they are the same in speed and durability but don't argue with me on this because this is not the right thread to discuss it. If you really want to say something, you can have the last word as I don't like going into Natsu vs. Gray threads because the conditions and feats/hype vary a lot here. Just know I probably won't reply to Natsu vs. Gray topics.

Gajeel has power over Gray too. He doesn't outclass him like Natsu does, but he still has power over him.

Yes, Gajeel might be combat smart not nearly as much as Gray whom we saw counter Ultear while she used OP magic in which she can nullify any non-living element which is essentially Gray's magic. But we saw Gray outsmart her in which I believe because metal has many counters, Gray will most likely be able to counter him.

Are you seriously trying to say that Gray can win solely because of intelligence? I'm sorry but this is too much. What is his intelligence going to do to make him come out on top of battle? I don't see intelligence doing anything when Gray is hit with an ISD Roar, I don't see intelligence doing anything when intangibility is in play. You guys are holding on to the smallest things that won't change anything in battle.

What decides a battle?

DC
Speed
Endurance
Durability

Not intelligence. Again, I'd understand if Gajeel was just plain stupid like say, Asuka, who's just a kid. Fortunately, this isn't the case.

He was fighting them the whole time and killed them... But did Gajeel do damage to the real dragon? Nope. Therefore, we can say nothing about that except that they are probably the same in power.

Dragons >>>>>>>>>>> Dragon hatchlings. Nice try though.

You had Gray dealing with fodder while Gajeel dealing with an actual threat, a dragon.

Hmmmmm...

I still agree with @Vasgoko here. Once again, this is not to you only. I truly am only saying this on your post because you replied to me but this is hopefully for everyone that reads this. Yomazu and Kawazu are both portrayed to be fodders whether you like it or not. Grimoire Heart sent them in to scout which tells us of their strength. You can defend Gajeel here but you would be bias as he lost fair and square just like when Gray lost to Bickslow. Does that mean they are both weak? No, but it does not tell us who is stronger because this was most likely used for plot reasons just like Gray losing to Bickslow which I don't deny happening by the way. Like I said, I'm fair when assessing these situations but we shouldn't really count this for either of them as they each had their own fair share of losses.

They're both portrayed to be fodder but they weren't by feats. At least Yomazu wasn't.

I can use the exact same logic and say Erza > Natsu by portrayal, not by feats though.

These are they same types of comments that I see and disagree with strongly. Advantageous magic does affect the outcome but should not give us the implication that the user is lucky and solely relying on the power to defeat an enemy. I already said this a lot but I'm quickly going to say it again. If the wizard who is using slaying magic is definitely outclassed, by their opponent, the magic would be useless.

It's not exactly absurd to think that Silver could beat someone who outranks him and is a demon. That's kind of the point of advantageous magic. That's what having an advantage is.

Besides, we've seen how deadly DeS magic is on demons.

I'm not going to argue about Silver vs. Torafusa, so if others want to argue about this, I'll stay out of it as we can't really say who the victor would be. I do have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself. We can't deny, however, that Silver is a noteworthy mage and looking at the character cards provided by Hiro Mashima, they both seem to be pretty strong.

Never denied it.

 

[Brandish μ]

Gray can't win coz he won't be able to use steel ball on Gazille