Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Jko]

Jellal was literally drowning, nice try bud. I want to see you sprint after being underwater for a minute, I mean drowning.

The fudge? Are you serious? This is literally an entire chapter after he drowned KOed. Get real, the guy was sweating bullets from the exhaustion of his spell not drowning.

 

[Woodenstool]

Jellal had already received CPR.

That doesn't mean jack, people don't heal instantly. August got a 18 inch blade through his chest and didn't heal it instantly. Lol nice try bud.

 

[Boomburst]

Jellal was literally drowning, nice try bud. I want to see you sprint after being underwater for a minute, I mean drowning.

A minute underwater is nothing, especially if you had a shit ton of time afterwards to rest before having to use a spell like Jellal did.

That doesn't mean jack, people don't heal instantly. August got a 18 inch blade through his chest and didn't heal it instantly. Lol nice try bud.

Did you actually just compare spending a minute underwater with getting stabbed in the fking chest?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Dragon force is an emotional trigger. I don't buy it, Natsu can't evaporate a lake that is literally miles upon miles wide. Nope just not today.

Thats a display of his strength. IT F&^<N SAID IT IN THE MANGA!!! lol thats like me saying

"Ancologia didnt one shot God Serena, nope. I dont buy it!"

Thats ridiculous....

And the rules clearly stat there is no emotional barrier in the fights. So ANY magic the combatant have already displayed are fair game. How is that not making sense to you. The rules were set to explain to people like you who refuse to give credit where its due.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

CR translated that Natsu did infact vaporize the entire lake and it was shown on panel, the other side of the shore had no water.

Spoiler

I'll admit that I don't read Crunchyroll's translation so I will concede here if you can post me the CR translation that said Natsu vaporized the whole lake.

That panel doesn't mean anything though. When you evaporate that much water out of the lake like Natsu did, it is natural for the water level to decrease. I just need some sort of statement or evidence that proves you guys are right before I believe it.

 

[Jko]

Did you actually just compare spending a minute underwater with getting stabbed in the fking chest?

And he tank that sh!t like a boss and wasn't even sweating afterwards

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

I'll admit that I don't read Crunchyroll's translation so I will concede here if you can post me the CR translation that said Natsu vaporized the whole lake.

That panel doesn't mean anything though. When you evaporate that much water out of the lake like Natsu did, it is natural for the water level to decrease. I just need some sort of statement or evidence that proves you guys are right before I believe it.

I read it on the free CR version so unfortunately I can't post the scan. I'm pretty sure another user on here has a Crunchy account and their willing to verify this.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And he tank that sh!t like a boss and wasn't even sweating afterwards

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

I read it on the free CR version so unfortunately I can't post the scan. I'm pretty sure another user on here has a Crunchy account and their willing to verify this.

Its says exactly that he evaporated the lake. People are just trolling at this point. It said it very clearly

 

[Rain Cloud]

Sorry I don't quite remember the outcome of ToH, I thought DF Natsu pretty much owned Jellal but I'm beginning to recall it wasn't so one-sided.

DF is 3x base, FDKM should be 2x or less. The gap between FDKM and DF is going to be massive.

Alright. Go ahead and back up those claims. I'm waiting. I don't know if FDKM is 2.5x, but we know that's it's powerful. It's unreasonably difficult to figure out how strong DF is in comparison to FDKM with such little information in the story.

I do not think that the multiplier of current DF Natsu is 3!!! Imho, it's more. You just need to take a look at Acnologia. Acno's dragon form is the result of mastering DF and his power up is huge when he's transformed. In dragon form Acnologia only needed to use sheer force and perhaps sometimes roar attacks to defeat his opponents but we never saw him trully going all out!!!
This basically means that stronger dragon-slayers who activate DF get even a bigger increase in power than weaker ones because they dragonize more and this kinda sounds logic, to me!!!

You too, give me your evidence that DF specifically related to Natsu is way stronger than 3x.

We can't use Acnologia as a comparison. Why? Because if another character has done it or has an ability, it doesn't apply to the character we're looking at unless they've specifically done it or have the specific ability, according to tournament rules.

I don't think there is a set multiplier for dragon force. Dragon Force is magic that lets you wield the power of a dragon, not magic that multiplies your power. How strong you are in dragon force should be proportional to how dragonized you become.

Natsu said dragon force felt like his powers were doubling or maybe even tripling because at that time he received all of Jellal's power. We can interpret that as Jellal being almost twice as strong as Natsu at that point. The sum total of Natsu's power at that time was "all of Natsu's remaining power + all of Jellal's remaining power". If Natsu felt like he was at 3x of his power, and 1x of that power was his own - then 2x of that power would have been Jellal's. If Oracion-arc Jellal gave current Natsu all of his magical power, it would no longer double Natsu's mp.

I wouldn't say that Jellal has twice as much power as Natsu. For example, tenrou laxus gave Natsu his lightning but does that make Natsu one "Laxus-unit" stronger? Magic doesn't appear to be that additive. Even BoS Natsu had a lot more magic power than most people give him credit for.

Looking at the fight again, Mard Geer says "This is Dragon Force?!" amidst the blitz from Natsu, and Natsu replies "I learnt it from Igneel himself!" Given he said that, its clearly a technique the dragons have taught the slayers. Here is the page from Crunchyroll for reference

Spoiler: Natsu in DF v Mard Geer

Its clear that he's doing it with his own power as its something he himself has said he was taught to use. The fact that he also activated Dragon Force without ingesting anything should make it crystal clear he is capable of willing it.

Thank you! I will 100% concede that Natsu can definitely use Dragon Force at will. Not that I was opposed to having it allowed for this fight.

However we still have zero post time skip feats. All we know of DF that can be applied to Jellal is that Natsu can keep up with meteor. There's nothing to say he gains moves that he didn't already have from FDKM to match Sema, Abyss Break (which doesn't count), and maybe even altairis. Other than the move (at pre-skip level) that he's about to use in images you just posted, and that did not look very frightening to us or Mard Geer's endurance.

People refusing to accept Natsu having access to DF still? Lol okay... its not fair? It doesnt make sense? People just trying to nerf Natsu to give Jellal the with, hahaha. Im going with Natsu, the only person that could legite beat him in this tournament was Laxus. And Natsu did evaporate the lake, people are just ignoring manga facts at this point. Its pretty funny

The problem isn't whether Natsu can access DF, as the tournament accepts he can. What makes it difficult is that there's no legitimate non-speculatory way to see a difference between FDKM and DF. There's no reason we have to believe that DF (3x) isn't just a notch more than FDKM (possibly 2.5x).

I personally think the end of ToH Natsu vs Jellal where Jellal was about to use Abyss Break was kinda dumb. I mean, yea sure Abyss Break might have taken out Natsu, but he monologued for a shit ton of time while setting it up while Natsu just stood there staring at him like an idiot. Natsu theoretically should have easily been able to beat Jellal in DF, it's only because of PiS that Natsu couldn't stop Jellal from setting up Abyss Break.

If you re-watch the video (it's the last 30 seconds, I guess), you'll notice Jellal had Abyss break set up to cast instantaneously. But again that battle shouldn't matter too much since Natsu's gotten a lot stronger since.

Natsu's FDKM heat evaporated the lake at Magnolia, so it's got a larger AoE than the GMG stadium. It will give Jellal discomfort, though I'm not sure it's unbearable or anything like that.

So we're bringing in AoE, huh? Well in that case!

Notice the curvature of the Earth in the background with this PRE-SKIP Sema. Now show me your "god-tier" lake & GMG stadium!

 

[Jko]

@XXEliteXXAceXX
So I searched for it and thank god @SirSamuel016 took a screenshot of the page so here it is

Spoiler

 

[Woodenstool]

Alright. Go ahead and back up those claims. I'm waiting. I don't know if FDKM is 2.5x, but we know that's it's powerful. It's unreasonably difficult to figure out how strong DF is in comparison to FDKM with such little information in the story.



You too, give me your evidence that DF specifically related to Natsu is way stronger than 3x.

We can't use Acnologia as a comparison. Why? Because if another character has done it or has an ability, it doesn't apply to the character we're looking at unless they've specifically done it or have the specific ability, according to tournament rules.




I wouldn't say that Jellal has twice as much power as Natsu. For example, tenrou laxus gave Natsu his lightning but does that make Natsu one "Laxus-unit" stronger? Magic doesn't appear to be that additive.


Thank you! I will 100% concede that Natsu can definitely use Dragon Force at will. Not that I was opposed to having it allowed for this fight.

However we still have zero post time skip feats. All we know of DF that can be applied to Jellal is that Natsu can keep up with meteor. There's nothing to say he gains moves that he didn't already have from FDKM to match Sema, Abyss Break (which doesn't count), and maybe even altairis. Other than the move (at pre-skip level) that he's about to use in images you just posted, and that did not look very frightening to us or Mard Geer's endurance.




The problem isn't whether Natsu can access DF, as the tournament accepts he can. What makes it difficult is that there's no legitimate non-speculatory way to see a difference between FDKM and DF. There's no reason we have to believe that DF (3x) isn't just a notch more than FDKM (possibly 2.5x).



If you re-watch the video (it's the last 30 seconds, I guess), you'll notice Jellal had Abyss break set up to cast instantaneously. But again that battle shouldn't matter too much since Natsu's gotten a lot stronger since.


So we're bringing in AoE, huh? Well in that case!

Notice the curvature of the Earth in the background with this PRE-SKIP Sema. Now show me your "god-tier" lake & GMG stadium!

Alright. Go ahead and back up those claims. I'm waiting. I don't know if FDKM is 2.5x, but we know that's it's powerful. It's unreasonably difficult to figure out how strong DF is in comparison to FDKM with such little information in the story.



You too, give me your evidence that DF specifically related to Natsu is way stronger than 3x.

We can't use Acnologia as a comparison. Why? Because if another character has done it or has an ability, it doesn't apply to the character we're looking at unless they've specifically done it or have the specific ability, according to tournament rules.




I wouldn't say that Jellal has twice as much power as Natsu. For example, tenrou laxus gave Natsu his lightning but does that make Natsu one "Laxus-unit" stronger? Magic doesn't appear to be that additive.


Thank you! I will 100% concede that Natsu can definitely use Dragon Force at will. Not that I was opposed to having it allowed for this fight.

However we still have zero post time skip feats. All we know of DF that can be applied to Jellal is that Natsu can keep up with meteor. There's nothing to say he gains moves that he didn't already have from FDKM to match Sema, Abyss Break (which doesn't count), and maybe even altairis. Other than the move (at pre-skip level) that he's about to use in images you just posted, and that did not look very frightening to us or Mard Geer's endurance.




The problem isn't whether Natsu can access DF, as the tournament accepts he can. What makes it difficult is that there's no legitimate non-speculatory way to see a difference between FDKM and DF. There's no reason we have to believe that DF (3x) isn't just a notch more than FDKM (possibly 2.5x).



If you re-watch the video (it's the last 30 seconds, I guess), you'll notice Jellal had Abyss break set up to cast instantaneously. But again that battle shouldn't matter too much since Natsu's gotten a lot stronger since.


So we're bringing in AoE, huh? Well in that case!

Notice the curvature of the Earth in the background with this PRE-SKIP Sema. Now show me your "god-tier" lake & GMG stadium!

If Jellal drops Cema it's over. Natsu couldn't even negate August spell which is much smaller compared to Cema and the force of the impact would flatten Natsu.

Jellal wins.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

@XXEliteXXAceXX
So I searched for it and thank god @SirSamuel016 took a screenshot of the page so here it is

Spoiler

I'm sorry. Thank you for taking the time to post this though. I still don't see how that means he evaporated the whole or entire lake. Both of those words were omitted. The phrase, "The water in the lake just evaporated!" is essentially the same as "The lakewater... It's evaporating...". All this means is that the water (in the lake) evaporated which still holds true in the panels even if it wasn't the entirety of it.

Not saying you guys are 100% wrong, but I will stick to my analysis until proven otherwise (like a statement from Hiro Mashima or further clarification).

 

[Demon Hunter]

tbh, Sema's best feat is defeating Oracion Seis who were hit by Grand Chariot beforehand. they were still conscious after those. you can say that Jellal didn't wanna killed them but his Sema could have easily been his limit during that point and him "not wanting to kill them" was most likely after he defeated them when Midnight said "kill us".

I still say Jellal wins though. AoE means shit if it doesn't have an effect on people.

 

[Boomburst]

If Jellal drops Cema it's over. Natsu couldn't even negate August spell which is much smaller compared to Cema and the force of the impact would flatten Natsu.

Jellal wins.

Lol what does Natsu not being able to negate Jellal's spell have anything to do with anything? Are you telling me that Jellal can negate Natsu's FDK attacks?

 

[Jko]

I'm sorry. Thank you for taking the time to post this though. I still don't see how that means he evaporated the whole or entire lake. Both of those words were omitted. The phrase, "The water in the lake just evaporated!" is essentially the same as "The lakewater... It's evaporating...". All this means is that the water (in the lake) evaporated which still holds true in the panels even if it wasn't the entirety of it.

Not saying you guys are 100% wrong, but I will stick to my analysis until proven otherwise (like a statement from Hiro Mashima or further clarification).

The lake water was fully evaporated when by Natsu just entering the mode. If you look under when he punched Jacob you'd see the see floor with zero water in the area.

If Jellal drops Cema it's over. Natsu couldn't even negate August spell which is much smaller compared to Cema and the force of the impact would flatten Natsu.

Are you seriously comparing Cema that only took out fodder seis w/the help of GC and canyon to August that attack that was literally seen over hundreds of miles away

Spoiler

And you really shoudn't try to compare durability when Jellal got KOed by this

Spoiler

 

[SirSamuel016]

If Jellal drops Cema it's over. Natsu couldn't even negate August spell which is much smaller compared to Cema and the force of the impact would flatten Natsu.

Jellal wins.

I'm sorry, but Natsu literally said in Chapter 490 that he negated August's attack. Here is the page from Crunchyroll:

Spoiler: Natsu says he cancelled out August's attack (CR)

And, I'd argue the size of August's attack was greater than Jellal's Sema as it could be seen from a magnolia which was a fair distance away. I'd also argue that Natsu could destroy the Sema with a FDK's Demolition Fist.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

The lake water was fully evaporated when by Natsu just entering the mode. If you look under when he punched Jacob you'd see the see floor with zero water in the area.

At that point, yes, there was no water. But that was because Natsu's presence was still there. From what I understood, he only evaporated these parts.

Spoiler

Though they may not look exactly the same, the area is quite similar. The water flooded the gap after he was gone. I mean if Natsu really evaporated the whole lake, I'd imagine that it would be so significant that we'd get a quote from somebody saying he actually evaporated the whole lake. Or at least a panel of it...

We'll just disagree here. Anyways, AoE doesn't really matter as his attack potency hasn't been proven to be that high. The fodders surrounding him when he entered the GMG as "The Challenger" were able to survive. Even Lucy was closer to Natsu and didn't burn up (only her clothes)...

 

[Rain Cloud]

I'm sorry, but Natsu literally said in Chapter 490 that he negated August's attack. Here is the page from Crunchyroll:

Spoiler: Natsu says he cancelled out August's attack (CR)

And, I'd argue the size of August's attack was greater than Jellal's Sema as it could be seen from a magnolia which was a fair distance away. I'd also argue that Natsu could destroy the Sema with a FDK's Demolition Fist.

Well, whether or not he negated August's attack (which he obviously did), it doesn't matter since "Melt(?)" is heat-based whereas Cema likely isn't.

The same way people argue for "attack" and "endurance" it's time to argue "intelligence". Jellal would not cast Sema if Natsu was in a healthy state to retaliate it. If anything, he's smart enough to use it when Natsu can't use those attacks towards the end as a finisher, like with OS. I completely agree, in that Natsu's demolition fist (or better choice, his Roar) could completely block Sema as it falls. But Jellal isn't the type to just spam and overpower with spells whenever.

*This is assuming Jellal can overcome Jura's defense in GMG with Sema, which was not shown.

 

[Woodenstool]

I'm sorry, but Natsu literally said in Chapter 490 that he negated August's attack. Here is the page from Crunchyroll:

Spoiler: Natsu says he cancelled out August's attack (CR)

And, I'd argue the size of August's attack was greater than Jellal's Sema as it could be seen from a magnolia which was a fair distance away. I'd also argue that Natsu could destroy the Sema with a FDK's Demolition Fist.

You're joking right?

It could be seen from the city because it was on a mountain. Get out of here with that logic "it was the size of the Cema. Lol.
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/489/6

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/489/7

That spell wasn't even on mountain level. And nice try using that panel of Natsu, manga stream said Natsu only negated some of it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You're joking right?

It could be seen from the city because it was on a mountain. Get out of here with that logic "it was the size of the Cema. Lol.
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/489/6

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/489/7

That spell wasn't even on mountain level. And nice try using that panel of Natsu, manga stream said Natsu only negated some of it.

Crunchy rolls are a exact translation where as mangastream has translating mistakes. Natsu officially negated the attack.

 

[SirSamuel016]

At that point, yes, there was no water. But that was because Natsu's presence was still there. From what I understood, he only evaporated these parts.

Spoiler

Though they may not look exactly the same, the area is quite similar. The water flooded the gap after he was gone. I mean if Natsu really evaporated the whole lake, I'd imagine that it would be so significant that we'd get a quote from somebody saying he actually evaporated the whole lake. Or at least a panel of it...

We'll just disagree here. Anyways, AoE doesn't really matter as his attack potency hasn't been proven to be that high. The fodders surrounding him when he entered the GMG as "The Challenger" was able to survive. Even Lucy...

If Natsu didn't evaporate the entire lake then we would've still seen water after the attack. Logically, the water would've still been present in some areas if it wasn't fully evaporated, but we've seen no water whatsoever since Natsu got serious over the lake. And, as has been previously provided, Jet and Droy literally commented that the water in the lake was evaporating. Did they really need to say the entire lake was evaporating amidst their disbelief of it evaporating? Its heavily implied the entire lake did evaporate so I don't really see why people are actually trying to argue the entire lake didn't evaporate.