Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tamil

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,125
Reaction score
5,841
Country
Winterfell
Yeah a lot of big titles. CANCELED. Accept that. This is a market, not a friends meeting. And wrong again it's not a one shot, it's a serialization in an irrelevant magazine. The difference is that shimabu CAN serialize it there, we already establish in a different conversation that he is rich.

Good ranking... You mean the irrelevant part of toc where the dance manga, saiki, samon etc stays right? One color page every year (if likely) and selling less than 40k (which is less than spin off manga sell on V JUMP, Saikyou or even JUMP+).

Big fan of the mangaka you are. Expeting them to stay irrelevant for their rest of their mangaka lives. Way to go champs.

I repeat. I hope (not only the 4 series I've mentioned before) ALL irrelevant manga DIES. Why? Because we're manga lovers. We're always expecting the next big thing... And I'm sorry to tell you this: HZ is not that.

Accept it.
We don't know why they all got cancelled for sure. Sales were dropping for all series and I don't think it was so much of a sales factor but rather change of times. It is a one shot...other articles stated it was a one shot and even Shimabu himself at the end of Toriko's serialization said it was a ONE SHOT, (yes ANN did originally announce it as a one shot). I don't care if he can or cannot serialize there; point is that it's a one shot.

Even by the off chance that it's a serialization then it won't last that long. It'll prob. be just as short if not shorter than RING. This was announced once Toriko ended so I doubt it'll be long.

No it is relevant. I said it could be big if it got an anime...I never said HZ will be the next big thing. It's impossible but it could sell a lot if it got an anime.
 
Last edited:

Swavey

Registered User
下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
97
Reaction score
99
Country
The Wall
I repeat. I hope (not only the 4 series I've mentioned before) ALL irrelevant manga DIES. Why? Because we're manga lovers. We're always expecting the next big thing... And I'm sorry to tell you this: HZ is not that.
Don't know what a manga lover is but that sounds like a wave rider to me. You love a manga for its content not its success that is basically supporting a manga just because you know it will be successful that as worse as acting like you enjoy a manga because it is critically acclaimed. Relevance is good for a manga but it shouldn't alter your opinion on it that is just weak.

And wrong again it's not a one shot, it's a serialization in an irrelevant magazine.
Toriko has been irrelevant for years what is the big deal with him continuing to be irellevant in a smaller magazine.

Good ranking... You mean the irrelevant part of toc where the dance manga, saiki, samon etc stays right? One color page every year (if likely) and selling less than 40k (which is less than spin off manga sell on V JUMP, Saikyou or even JUMP+).
Top table 16 times and 12 color pages last year and 2 color pages so far this year. Editors are pushing it even if it sells less than some "irrelevant" manga how about contacting them to warn them about your great prophecy.
 
Last edited:

Scruffy8642

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
1,057
Age
29
Country
Australia
Good ranking... You mean the irrelevant part of toc where the dance manga, saiki, samon etc stays right? One color page every year (if likely) and selling less than 40k (which is less than spin off manga sell on V JUMP, Saikyou or even JUMP+).
To be fair HZ gets colour pages every 5 or so chapters and has some of the most of any series in the magazine... at least it did in 2016.
 

Swavey

Registered User
下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
97
Reaction score
99
Country
The Wall
To be fair HZ gets colour pages every 5 or so chapters and has some of the most of any series in the magazine... at least it did in 2016.
Excluding covers it had the most in 2016 it got 2 covers in 2015 but maybe 5 center color pages
 

James Rye

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
2,019
Reaction score
6,506
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Quirkless Deku doesn't stand a chance to some like Todoroki who can make an Iceberg/Flamethrower in an instant. Quirkless Deku doesn't stand a change to someone like Kachan who have a bomb on its palm. Deku is not even rich to became some like Batman. If Horikoshi made Deku quirkless the manga is going to became a series of asspull after asspull and if that's happen i pretty sure the manga is not even going to last by chapter 50. I don't another MxO and that series is full of asspull.
The only way Deku could have been a quirkless hero is if he and that Gadget Girl had been childhoodfriends and she tried to help him with her quirk to create gadgets to stand up to bullies like Kacchan. And because of said Gadgets Deku had to train from a young age to be able to use all those gadgets (and to survive the failure ones) she would bring him to school or at home. And she would want to make him a popular hero to prove how awesome her gadgets are. Plus this would make her a heroine without the hero cannot win which would be something new compared to all the damsel in distress or side-kicks or just love interests we got in most shounen heroines. Also it would be interesting to see both applying to the academy yet be separated in class A and B with her being secretly worried that Deku might start to like a real Superheroine more than just her with her crazy inventions.

Hm, this could make for a good fanfic if done right.
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Don't know what a manga lover is but that sounds like a wave rider to me. You love a manga for its content not its success that is basically supporting a manga just because you know it will be successful that as worse as acting like you enjoy a manga because it is critically acclaimed. Relevance is good for a manga but it shouldn't alter your opinion on it that is just weak.


Toriko has been irrelevant for years what is the big deal with him continuing to be irellevant in a smaller magazine.


Top table 16 times and 12 color pages last year and 2 color pages so far this year. Editors are pushing it even if it sells less than some "irrelevant" manga how about contacting them to warn them about your great prophecy.
Yeah... A 300k copies seller is irrelevant... But zumou that sells 10x less is not? Riiiight.

Thank you guys for the information about the color pages... It makes HZ even more IRRELEVANT. Even with the "push" it's unable to sell more or even maitain a top 5 toc rank.

Let it die already. Put it out of it's misery.
 

Scruffy8642

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
1,057
Age
29
Country
Australia
Big fan of the mangaka you are. Expeting them to stay irrelevant for their rest of their mangaka lives. Way to go champs.

I repeat. I hope (not only the 4 series I've mentioned before) ALL irrelevant manga DIES. Why? Because we're manga lovers. We're always expecting the next big thing... And I'm sorry to tell you this: HZ is not that.
Honestly, by this logic you're saying that almost all non-Jump manga just shouldn't exist because so few mangakas manage to sell well elsewhere. A series sales doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good it is which is what you're implying. Outside of Jump there are maybe 50 series, probably considerably less that sell to your standards, so the rest should just disappear right? So "As "a fan of manga" you effectively want to put all mangaka out of a job and destroy the industry? You do realise not every mangaka is out there to make a fortune? Just like any other profession, people do it for different reasons. Many of them are probably just satisfied by being able to work in their dream job and make a living out of it. The difference between a 30k seller and a 200k+ seller is the difference between an liveable wage and an fairly high wage. It's not like they can't survive, they're just not rich... Granted they probably have less stress to live up to expectations too as well.

As a "manga lover", I am always expecting good manga. I couldn't care less if it's the next big thing. A series doesn't have to be a big hit to satisfy the mangaka creating it. You make it sound like all mangaka should just be put out of their misery, when in reality most of them probably aren't in misery... As long as they're satisfied, what is the issue? Black Clover is the second biggest hit out of Jump in almost 4 years. If we have to sacrifice amazing series like Sesuji and HZ for "hits" like that, I don't want them. I know this is Jump and all, but the industry isn't what it used to be. You can't expect Jump to find a full lineup of 200k+ sellers...

Out of interest, what series do you translate?
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Honestly, by this logic you're saying that almost all non-Jump manga just shouldn't exist because so few mangakas manage to sell well elsewhere. A series sales doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good it is which is what you're implying. Outside of Jump there are maybe 50 series, probably considerably less that sell to your standards, so the rest should just disappear right? So "As "a fan of manga" you effectively want to put all mangaka out of a job and destroy the industry? You do realise not every mangaka is out there to make a fortune? Just like any other profession, people do it for different reasons. Many of them are probably just satisfied by being able to work in their dream job and make a living out of it. The difference between a 30k seller and a 200k+ seller is the difference between an liveable wage and an fairly high wage. It's not like they can't survive, they're just not rich... Granted they probably have less stress to live up to expectations too as well.

As a "manga lover", I am always expecting good manga. I couldn't care less if it's the next big thing. A series doesn't have to be a big hit to satisfy the mangaka creating it. You make it sound like all mangaka should just be put out of their misery, when in reality most of them probably aren't in misery... As long as they're satisfied, what is the issue? Black Clover is the second biggest hit out of Jump in almost 4 years. If we have to sacrifice amazing series like Sesuji and HZ for "hits" like that, I don't want them. I know this is Jump and all, but the industry isn't what it used to be. You can't expect Jump to find a full lineup of 200k+ sellers...

Out of interest, what series do you translate?
I never said bad. I said irrelevant. Manga is a market... (Hell I loved some series that were canceled with less than 24 chapters...) If the series don't sell, they don't stand and consequently they will be canceled, it's just a matter of time (at least, in shonen jump, excepting the ultra irrelevant series like Isobee that are present for education purposes, or wtv). And about the "magazine" stuff, this is not true. One thing is to compare the sales of Shonen Jump titles (that are blockbusters and worldwide famous). Another thing is to compare JUMP`+ or any other minor magazine (even within them we have successes that can/could sell a lot)

A "good" manga is subjective to our own choices and preferences, and this possibly means jack for the company behind it. They want to profit, they don't care necessarily about what you think.

Also, it's almost impossible for something plain "bad" to sell like crazy. Why? Because the majority of people likes it. That's the thing.

Just because you consider certain series a "godo manga" does not mean it is (The same values to me, of course).

So (and to end this pointless debate once and for all [I hope])... If a JUMP title (the biggest and most sold magazine), with good marketing (color pages, all kinds of merchan, games, etc) with a good mangaka drawing and writing it (hene providing a good story), is UNABLE to sell or to maintain consistent position in toc...

WHY DA HELL IT SHOULD STAY IN THE MAGAZINE. Really, why?! Because some of us likes it?

The answer is pretty simple to me. It not only should, it MUST die. I'm sorry to tell you guys that (again).

The next time I'll talk about it will be when HZ is canceled (and only if)
 
Last edited:

Scruffy8642

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
1,057
Age
29
Country
Australia
So (and to end this pointless debate once and for all [I hope])... If a JUMP title (the biggest and most sold magazine), with good marketing (color pages, all kinds of merchan, games, etc) with a good mangaka drawing and writing it (hene providing a good story), is UNABLE to sell or to maintain consistent position in toc...

WHY DA HELL IT SHOULD STAY IN THE MAGAZINE. Really, why?! Because some of us likes it?

The answer is pretty simple to me. It not only should, it MUST die. I'm sorry to tell you guys that (again).
Okay, I can be satisfied with that.

It should only stay in the magazine if they cannot find better, and well, they haven't been able to for a while which is why they're there in the first place. Compared to most of the series that have been going through Jump lately, 20k sales for a first volume is a lot. Out of the 10 series that started in 2016, 5 sold abysmally, and DP and OG will probably end up the same = 70% of series can't even make it to that level... At the end of the day, I guess Shueisha prefers 20k over 0. Once they get better series that outclass the low sellers, then sure get rid of them.
 

vampire killer

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
802
Reaction score
465
Gender
Male
Country
Bulgaria
The manga about sumo is in jump only cos the editor in chief likes it. It dosent matter how well it sell or how many people like it. Only one guy need to like it and thats the editor of jump. He is the god of jump. Everybody else is just trash.
 

Bigivelfhq

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
846
Reaction score
501
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Portugal
The manga about sumo is in jump only cos the editor in chief likes it. It dosent matter how well it sell or how many people like it. Only one guy need to like it and thats the editor of jump. He is the god of jump. Everybody else is just trash.
Again, the magazine brings more money than the volume sales! The Zumo manga is in there because is popular in the magazine!
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Honestly, by this logic you're saying that almost all non-Jump manga just shouldn't exist because so few mangakas manage to sell well elsewhere. A series sales doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good it is which is what you're implying. Outside of Jump there are maybe 50 series, probably considerably less that sell to your standards, so the rest should just disappear right? So "As "a fan of manga" you effectively want to put all mangaka out of a job and destroy the industry? You do realise not every mangaka is out there to make a fortune? Just like any other profession, people do it for different reasons. Many of them are probably just satisfied by being able to work in their dream job and make a living out of it. The difference between a 30k seller and a 200k+ seller is the difference between an liveable wage and an fairly high wage. It's not like they can't survive, they're just not rich... Granted they probably have less stress to live up to expectations too as well.

As a "manga lover", I am always expecting good manga. I couldn't care less if it's the next big thing. A series doesn't have to be a big hit to satisfy the mangaka creating it. You make it sound like all mangaka should just be put out of their misery, when in reality most of them probably aren't in misery... As long as they're satisfied, what is the issue? Black Clover is the second biggest hit out of Jump in almost 4 years. If we have to sacrifice amazing series like Sesuji and HZ for "hits" like that, I don't want them. I know this is Jump and all, but the industry isn't what it used to be. You can't expect Jump to find a full lineup of 200k+ sellers...

Out of interest, what series do you translate?
From jump: to my Manga Editor: One Piece, MHA, BC, Souma, HQ, Boruto. We shall do the 3 new veteran mangaka series.
from young jump: Tokyo Ghoul re, Uratarou
From weekly magazine: Fire Force, FT, Nanatsu, Ippo
From SQ: PE
from shonen sunday/urasunday: magi/sinbad
From other magazines: Yowamushi Pedal, Smokin' Parade, Shingeki no Kyojin, Origin, and some clamp series

I also helped other groups providing raws or editing: TF, Kingdom, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Samon-kun, Yuragisou no Yuuna-san, Saiki, HZ!, and some others.

We also do old series (cause they are not licensed in brasil or never were released by any good Manga Editor) but there's too many to mention.

I help in Jaiminisbox as well.

I also were part of Dattebayo back in 2006. I used to do analogic fansubbing back in the day when VHS was still a "thing" (I remember the very first episode that kaizoku released for instance).

Pretty much I translated anime and manga for the last 15 years. I will be 30 this year (yeah, I'm old)

Okay, I can be satisfied with that.

It should only stay in the magazine if they cannot find better, and well, they haven't been able to for a while which is why they're there in the first place. Compared to most of the series that have been going through Jump lately, 20k sales for a first volume is a lot. Out of the 10 series that started in 2016, 5 sold abysmally, and DP and OG will probably end up the same = 70% of series can't even make it to that level... At the end of the day, I guess Shueisha prefers 20k over 0. Once they get better series that outclass the low sellers, then sure get rid of them.
Yes, it's that. Even so, it's weird to prefer 30k over 300 or more (For toriko, Reborn or other obviusly canceled series). But we probably we'll never know the truth.

The manga about sumo is in jump only cos the editor in chief likes it. It dosent matter how well it sell or how many people like it. Only one guy need to like it and thats the editor of jump. He is the god of jump. Everybody else is just trash.
Somebody likes it. But the majority does not and this is pretty much obvious and everything that should matter... But...

Again, the magazine brings more money than the volume sales! The Zumo manga is in there because is popular in the magazine!
It's pretty much that. Just let's see how long it will continue that way. Remember that the printed version numbers are gradatively degrating. In the future, sales will be pretty much everything that matters unless they give some huge discount so that people can read an entire magazine (even skipping the manga they don't like) over some series. Not sure if this will be financially viable though.
 
Last edited:

Tamil

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
4,125
Reaction score
5,841
Country
Winterfell
Toriko has been irrelevant for years what is the big deal with him continuing to be irellevant in a smaller magazine.
Toriko by no means was irrelevant and definitely the mangaka wasn't. What are you on about?



Why are people thinking he's serializing a manga in that magazine? It's a one shot.
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Toriko by no means was irrelevant and definitely the mangaka wasn't. What are you on about?



Why are people thinking he's serializing a manga in that magazine? It's a one shot.
Not sure if you noted but his comments are pretty much trying to bash mine haha. I gave up on him already.
 

Bigivelfhq

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
846
Reaction score
501
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Portugal
It's pretty much that. Just let's see how long it will continue that way. Remember that the printed version numbers are gradatively degrating. In the future, sales will be pretty much everything that matters unless they give some huge discount so that people can read an entire magazine (even skipping the manga they don't like) over some series. Not sure if this will be financially viable though.
If the constants between Magazine and Volumes continue:
- Magazine has adverts, Volume doesn't.
- Magazine is weekly, Volume comes each 2 or 3 or 4 months.
- Magazine is less costly to produce than Volume(paper quality)
- Magazine doesn't pay authors royalties, Volume do.
- Magazines are also bought to be placed for reading by the public, for free.Meaning that is the perfect advert for the Volumes. Because of that Weekly Shonen Jump has am estimation of 10 Million readers per issue.

Than is almost impossible for the sales(I assume you're talking of Volume sales) to be pretty much everything that matters.

And to all that you add the fact that the magazine print more copies than any other series prints their volume, with the only exception being One Piece. And yep, nor Naruto(1.63M) nor HxH(1.73M) were able in their peak to ever reach 2.1 Million copies in print.

People underestimate the power of the Magazine because there is little concrete and frequent data about it.
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
If the constants between Magazine and Volumes continue:
- Magazine has adverts, Volume doesn't.
- Magazine is weekly, Volume comes each 2 or 3 or 4 months.
- Magazine is less costly to produce than Volume(paper quality)
- Magazine doesn't pay authors royalties, Volume do.
- Magazines are also bought to be placed for reading by the public, for free.Meaning that is the perfect advert for the Volumes. Because of that Weekly Shonen Jump has am estimation of 10 Million readers per issue.

Than is almost impossible for the sales(I assume you're talking of Volume sales) to be pretty much everything that matters.

And to all that you add the fact that the magazine print more copies than any other series prints their volume, with the only exception being One Piece. And yep, nor Naruto(1.63M) nor HxH(1.73M) were able in their peak to ever reach 2.1 Million copies in print.

People underestimate the power of the Magazine because there is little concrete and frequent data about it.
Yeah, volume sales. And you're completely correct. We don't have enough information to even talk about that.
Still, there's one thing that you did not mention though... The reason people are buying the magazine. Could be just a random, completely off guess but... I think that the vaaast majority of jump readers buy the magazine to read one piece... The numbers are way to similar to not be looking into account.

Edit: This is completely off topic and it's not shonen jump related but.. Since it's from Ohba and Tabata I think it's ok...

Platinum End chapter 16 colorspread is AMAZING:

 
Last edited:

Bigivelfhq

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
846
Reaction score
501
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Portugal
Yeah, volume sales. And you're completely correct. We don't have enough information to even talk about that.
Still, there's one thing that you did not mention though... The reason people are buying the magazine. Could be just a random, completely off guess but... I think that the vaaast majority of jump readers buy the magazine to read one piece... The numbers are way to similar to not be looking into account.
What do you mean with "We don't have enough information to even talk about that", I've been talking here for sometime about this, and we do have data, accurate data about majorly of it. We have the print of the magazine, we have the magazine price, we have the percentage of magazine returns, we have the cost of each type of advertisement, we have how much the authors earn for issue(an estimate). And the same for the Volumes.

What we don't have is a frequent source of information for the magazines, while for the volume we have Oricon that every week tells how much each volume sells.

If people only read One Piece than they wouldn't be buying the magazine. As I said above, the magazine is found in various places throughout the country for free.
What are you talking about the numbers being to similar? How is Magazine's 2.1 Million copies in print(and Magazine's10 Million estimate readers) to similar to Volume 2.8-3 Million copie sold? isn't that basically a difference of 700-900 thousand people? O_o
 

G_I_A

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
401
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Yeah I meant the source, I'm sorry.

Well isn't there people that collect the magazine issues as well or "only" them?

And by similar I mean the proportion... The same way you said that HZ majority of readers follows the series weekly instead of buying the volumes, the same happens with one piece readers. And we know that are millions of them. It's also important to note that, since One Piece (and Gintama...) are the only long running series still in publication right now. With Kochikame, Naruto, Bleach and Toriko ending, I mean. Pretty much the majority of people that buy jump is to read these old series since they grow up with it and taking into account that the new series has no fanbase whatsoever (excepting maybe neverland) as we can see in the TOC and comparing with volume sales.

I don' think it's an exaggeration to imagine that people buys jump to read One Piece or old and more sucessfull series (again taking the toc balance into account and NOT volume sales)... But if we compare both informations (TOC + volume sales) it should be pretty much consistent the "relevant" series for jump:

One Piece, Haikyuu, MHA, etc.

I'm not saying people that buys the magazine weekly don't read other manga, though. But I think you got what I meant.
 
Last edited:

TyVip

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
2,721
Reaction score
2,814
Gender
Male
Country
Mariejoa
Yeah I meant the source, I'm sorry.

Well isn't there people that collect the magazine issues as well or "only" them?

And by similar I mean the proportion... The same way you said that HZ majority of readers follows the series weekly instead of buying the volumes, the same happens with one piece readers. And we know that are millions of them. It's also important to note that, since One Piece (and Gintama...) are the only long running series still in publication right now. With Kochikame, Naruto, Bleach and Toriko ending, I mean. Pretty much the majority of people that buy jump is to read these old series since they grow up with it and taking into account that the new series has no fanbase whatsoever (excepting maybe neverland) as we can see in the TOC and comparing with volume sales.

I don' think it's an exaggeration to imagine that people buys jump to read One Piece or old and more sucessfull series (again taking the toc balance into account and NOT volume sales)...

I'm not saying they don't read other manga, though.
There was a decrease of ~200,000 magazines right after Naruto ended (Naruto sold 5-6x time that).
and around ~50,000 when Bleach ended.

can't find sources, will edit when I do. There was a chart somewhere in here.

Here http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...ine-circulation-drops-below-1-million/.108408

Naruto ended on November 2014. January - March 2015 the magazine see a decline.

Keep in mind the companies are trying to go toward digital publication so that number might not reflect it.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top