So I've been thinking and I would add and try out the following roles in my next game: Mafia Gambler, Apprentice, Martyr and Prosecutor. They all got my approval and of some other hosts. With lawlett-kun and gnut giving me their support these roles can at least be tested if nothing else.
Also calling @James Rye for final confirmation on the role descriptions so the descriptions are completely clear and not confusing anyone.
Maybe we should rewrite the part about "use the won vote" so it's clear he's like a "mafia politician" if he wins?
Both apprentice versions in one, or make it two versions with Sane/Insane for the suicide/mafia endings? He gets notified if his role changes?
Pretty clear and simple daytime bodyguard. Though we should add that you can't claim it, right?
Lynched is a weird word to describe it. Does it mean that this death is the day's townie-lynch and the day ends afterwards? If not then simply calling it "dies" is less confusing. Also we should add that you can't claim this role.
Prosecutor is an interesting cross between vigilante and badass cowboy.
If someone has any objections to these roles, now would be a good time to raise them.
So I've been thinking and I would add and try out the following roles in my next game: Mafia Gambler, Apprentice, Martyr and Prosecutor. They all got my approval and of some other hosts. With lawlett-kun and gnut giving me their support these roles can at least be tested if nothing else.
Also calling @James Rye for final confirmation on the role descriptions so the descriptions are completely clear and not confusing anyone.
Maybe we should rewrite the part about "use the won vote" so it's clear he's like a "mafia politician" if he wins?
Both apprentice versions in one, or make it two versions with Sane/Insane for the suicide/mafia endings? He gets notified if his role changes?
Pretty clear and simple daytime bodyguard. Though we should add that you can't claim it, right?
Lynched is a weird word to describe it. Does it mean that this death is the day's townie-lynch and the day ends afterwards? If not then simply calling it "dies" is less confusing. Also we should add that you can't claim this role.
Prosecutor is an interesting cross between vigilante and badass cowboy.
If someone has any objections to these roles, now would be a good time to raise them.
Rewrite as in that the Host has to inform the loser Townie that he has to change the vote himself? I kinda liked that it is done by the host and that it gets votelocked. And I think that's how it should get done with the Politican role too, it reduces the pm mess and avoids that the politican/mafia gambler target already votelocks his vote during the time the politican/mafia gambler send the Host the pm.
I'd like a sane(takes over townie job/dies if target was a mafia) insane (takes over townie job/becomes 100%(!!) Unskilled Mafia member if target was a mafia) Apprentience maybe even a naive one who cannot level up at all but still dies if his target was a mafia. This will make apprentice want to hint at who they target and it could become a role for mafia to want to claim but with the trouble that sooner or later they will have to prove that claim with a new role so either they say they targeted a townie who saaaaaaaadly happened to die just before the third night or they say they targeted a mafia buddy who says he was townie role x. Could be interesting.
Yeah, Martyr shouldn't be a claimable role, makes sense to me. Else Mafia could claim it and keep dodging the sacrifice part because he doesn't want to die/was unsure if the lynch victim was really townie or an important townie role etc.
Yeah, Prosecutor Accusation should be an extra kill not a replacement for the lynching.
Can you add the changes yourself, Gry or should I do it?
Rewrite as in that the Host has to inform the loser Townie that he has to change the vote himself? I kinda liked that it is done by the host and that it gets votelocked. And I think that's how it should get done with the Politican role too, it reduces the pm mess and avoids that the politican/mafia gambler target already votelocks his vote during the time the politican/mafia gambler send the Host the pm.
I'd like a sane(takes over townie job/dies if target was a mafia) insane (takes over townie job/becomes 100%(!!) Unskilled Mafia member if target was a mafia) Apprentience maybe even a naive one who cannot level up at all but still dies if his target was a mafia. This will make apprentice want to hint at who they target and it could become a role for mafia to want to claim but with the trouble that sooner or later they will have to prove that claim with a new role so either they say they targeted a townie who saaaaaaaadly happened to die just before the third night or they say they targeted a mafia buddy who says he was townie role x. Could be interesting.
Yeah, Martyr shouldn't be a claimable role, makes sense to me. Else Mafia could claim it and keep dodging the sacrifice part because he doesn't want to die/was unsure if the lynch victim was really townie or an important townie role etc.
Yeah, Prosecutor Accusation should be an extra kill not a replacement for the lynching.
Can you add the changes yourself, Gry or should I do it?
I'd have liked it that way too, but since Evil stated his opinion on that I guess there's no further talking about that, politician stays the way he is. So we can either make Gambler special with the host announcing that X-player's vote was changed or the same as the politician. Which means we'd have to include the host contacting the player, the player can't associate himself with the politician/gambler and that he faces penalties if he does. This would need to be worded well and understandable.
And since the text for players that are targetted by the politician looks like "A politician used his powers on you, you must change your vote to X-person" etc., should the Gambler(if we make him work like the politician) make the same message as the politician? This is also a crucial detail so if we went with this the gambler would need quite a lot of rewording. What do you think?
Yeah sanity might be a good idea for the host to 100% use the version he wants, we don't need more % roles. So far Sane and Insane seems enough.
As for Martyr, I'll add the unclaimable part to the other rules since vigilante doesn't have it in his description either.
About the prosecutor, I see you also included in the role that the kill/death isn't instant but at the end of the day. Is it important for it to work that way or do we make it instant as with assassin, vigilante and cowboy? It could be better to fit in with the other similar day actions, but it gives the role a unique part if the results are at the end of the day. Thoughts?
I'd have liked it that way too, but since Evil stated his opinion on that I guess there's no further talking about that, politician stays the way he is. So we can either make Gambler special with the host announcing that X-player's vote was changed or the same as the politician. Which means we'd have to include the host contacting the player, the player can't associate himself with the politician/gambler and that he faces penalties if he does. This would need to be worded well and understandable.
And since the text for players that are targetted by the politician looks like "A politician used his powers on you, you must change your vote to X-person" etc., should the Gambler(if we make him work like the politician) make the same message as the politician? This is also a crucial detail so if we went with this the gambler would need quite a lot of rewording. What do you think?
Yeah sanity might be a good idea for the host to 100% use the version he wants, we don't need more % roles. So far Sane and Insane seems enough.
As for Martyr, I'll add the unclaimable part to the other rules since vigilante doesn't have it in his description either.
About the prosecutor, I see you also included in the role that the kill/death isn't instant but at the end of the day. Is it important for it to work that way or do we make it instant as with assassin, vigilante and cowboy? It could be better to fit in with the other similar day actions, but it gives the role a unique part if the results are at the end of the day. Thoughts?
In that case the MG needs to be worded like a politican. And the message needs to be less specific when somebody gets told he has to change his vote or that somebody used his/her powers on him/her to change said vote so the host will do so. like
"Somebody used his powers on you, you must change your vote to X-person" <- though I still think it would be better to just say
"Somebody used his powers on you, the Host changed your vote to X-person" that would safe SO much time and avoids confusion and unfairness in case of somebody going offline just before Politican/MG uses their power and then never comes back till the day is already over thus getting penalty votes on him the next day....
I like the Sane and Insane Apprentice. Especially since somebody with that job now can never be sure if he is sane or insane so will he die or suddenly jump teams in three nights after staying onto the same target. XD
Alright, fine with Martyr in that case.
What about the Prosecutor, how should the changed text look there?
And do you think the BH can make the cut too for this game or would that be too crazy (albeit that would fit the game's theme)?
In that case the MG needs to be worded like a politican. And the message needs to be less specific when somebody gets told he has to change his vote or that somebody used his/her powers on him/her to change said vote so the host will do so. like
"Somebody used his powers on you, you must change your vote to X-person" <- though I still think it would be better to just say
"Somebody used his powers on you, the Host changed your vote to X-person" that would safe SO much time and avoids confusion and unfairness in case of somebody going offline just before Politican/MG uses their power and then never comes back till the day is already over thus getting penalty votes on him the next day....
I like the Sane and Insane Apprentice. Especially since somebody with that job now can never be sure if he is sane or insane so will he die or suddenly jump teams in three nights after staying onto the same target. XD
Alright, fine with Martyr in that case.
What about the Prosecutor, how should the changed text look there?
And do you think the BH can make the cut too for this game or would that be too crazy (albeit that would fit the game's theme)?
Yeah I would find that much better and convenient too, but that would take out the "interesting aspect" of people pretending they're voting out of their own intentions, not like people actually do that and much rather just heavily hint at being forced to change it.. But alas. Lemme try rewriting it.
How's that?
I should probably add that the Apprentice doesn't know about his sanity.
Well, the way you described the Prosecutor role it works like this:
1. Player publicly uses his power on another player.
2. At the end of the day(when the most voted player is lynched and night starts), the targetted player dies if he was mafia/3rd party. If the targetted player was a townie, the Prosecutor dies instead.
So did you intend it to work this way or did you want the death to happen immediately like a vigilante/cowboy/assassin kill? Just wanted to clarify that.
Also, does the Traitor get killed by the Prosecutor ability? Since he is kind of a townie role, but can only win with mafia.
Another thing James. I was also planning to change the wording on some role descriptions in the Rules&Roles-thread, and I already know some which I would clarify. Do you have any roles you think have a bad or lacking description for me to change or clarify?
Yeah I would find that much better and convenient too, but that would take out the "interesting aspect" of people pretending they're voting out of their own intentions, not like people actually do that and much rather just heavily hint at being forced to change it.. But alas. Lemme try rewriting it.
How's that?
I should probably add that the Apprentice doesn't know about his sanity.
Well, the way you described the Prosecutor role it works like this:
1. Player publicly uses his power on another player.
2. At the end of the day(when the most voted player is lynched and night starts), the targetted player dies if he was mafia/3rd party. If the targetted player was a townie, the Prosecutor dies instead.
So did you intend it to work this way or did you want the death to happen immediately like a vigilante/cowboy/assassin kill? Just wanted to clarify that.
Also, does the Traitor get killed by the Prosecutor ability? Since he is kind of a townie role, but can only win with mafia.
Another thing James. I was also planning to change the wording on some role descriptions in the Rules&Roles-thread, and I already know some which I would clarify. Do you have any roles you think have a bad or lacking description for me to change or clarify?
It's good but a little thick, isn't it? Don't you think the whole politican sentence can be taken our or shorten a bit?
And yeah, Apprentice shouldn't know his sanity just like Dets and Docs.
Yeah, that's how the Prosecutor role is supposed to work like. As for the whole Traitor thing, Prosecutor can only work two ways:
-Either he kills if he targeted a mafia/third party and dies if he had targeted a Townie no matter what role the Townie had
- Or he kills if he targeted a guilty player and dies if he had targeted an innocent player meaning there are Townie roles he can accidentally kill or a certain Mafia role he cannot kill due being innocent.
Both ways have their advantages, which one do you like more?
Do you have the support of a couple other hosts for that? I dunno, I can understand most roles there. Maybe it would be good to ask the players right after this game which roles they find a bit hard to understand or are too difficult written. More people voice their opinion the better.
It's good but a little thick, isn't it? Don't you think the whole politican sentence can be taken our or shorten a bit?
And yeah, Apprentice shouldn't know his sanity just like Dets and Docs.
Yeah, that's how the Prosecutor role is supposed to work like. As for the whole Traitor thing, Prosecutor can only work two ways:
-Either he kills if he targeted a mafia/third party and dies if he had targeted a Townie no matter what role the Townie had
- Or he kills if he targeted a guilty player and dies if he had targeted an innocent player meaning there are Townie roles he can accidentally kill or a certain Mafia role he cannot kill due being innocent.
Both ways have their advantages, which one do you like more?
Do you have the support of a couple other hosts for that? I dunno, I can understand most roles there. Maybe it would be good to ask the players right after this game which roles they find a bit hard to understand or are too difficult written. More people voice their opinion the better.
Yes your one is shorter and better, I'll likely go with that one.
Due to how risky the role is maybe the 1st option is better? This way even if he dies and town loses a player at least he definitely confirmed the other player. Basing it on a sane-detective sanity test is much more simpler and no host would screw that up, but I think that would make the role really weak since iirc every game has a mafia boss in it, so that's less people he can successfully kill with his role, while traitor/deathmiller/miller aren't as common.
The role was your idea so I'll take it as you decide it, we can change it after the game if needed.
Evil did allow me to change things but to let it be known what I change and to talk with others about it. So far I was only thinking about either rewording some more confusingly written roles, add a few words/lines to make certain roles more understandable or add info about certain role interactions which aren't clear. Are you sure you understand most of them? For example I noticed in the previous game that most players didn't know how the PGO works and his role description isn't clear about it.
Then some things like whether the witch death kill at night can be protected, whether Traitor can be recruited by other means(mason/mentor), kamikaze/time bomb being extremely similar and their description could be simpler, strongman description should be much simpler etc. The role descriptions certainly aren't perfect and don't tell you all you need to know or how certain interactions work.
As for the bounty hunter I would like to test that one too, but my concern is if I include him I'll have to notify him being in the game so it'll be obvious that we have a 3rd party in the game.
Oi @James Rye wanna finish the talk by the 30th so I can add the roles?
Don't like it. Mafia being converted to town is game breaking, so I can only see it work for 3rd party roles. And that leaves like, what, 1 target to look for in 12+ players?
Don't like it. Mafia being converted to town is game breaking, so I can only see it work for 3rd party roles. And that leaves like, what, 1 target to look for in 12+ players?
