Styx said:
Yes, I saw your "reasons" for hating him and I don't recall saying you shouldn't or couldn't express yourself or your dislike of Trump. My point was to highlight how easily you and many others did the same things you condemn Trump/supporters for. And that's humorous, because you nor others seem to care that you did, which means you only care if Trump/someone you dislike did it. An action you distaste so thoroughly yet you have no qualms with exercising.
Except I haven't done what I hate Trump for. I called Trump (a bad person) bad names. Trump calls anyone who has a criticism of him bad names, bad person or not. I didn't refer to his entire race in negative connotations. He said all blacks are lazy. I didn't ban him from the country, ridicule his religion, or threaten to torture the families of terrorists.
You're trying to place name-calling on the same tier as racism and bigotry. You are reaching. Terribly.
And as I said, so what? You met Trump supporters that said something that ruffled your jimmies and you think you can lump them
altogether and insult all of them because of this instance that no one but you can authentic? And yet you hate Trump for insulting, generalizing, etc Muslims, Immigrants etc etc? You are a shallow hypocrite if you can accept unacceptable behavior so long as it is towards people you condemn it happening or from people you side with.
See, you're doing it again. I never said "ALL" Trump supporters. And I took the steps to alleviate any thoughts that I was generalizing the entire group by attempting to seek answers from multiple sources. From people I know, from the news, and from the internet. It's not my fault that all of my attempts to find a reasonable Trump supporter has fallen flat. That shit's on you guys.
Go right ahead. You can quote any point in my responses where I've said that all Trump supporters are the way the one's I've met are. I'll wait. The closest thing you'll find is me saying "Trump supporters" instead of "some Trump supporters". And I won't apologize for that, because you don't make that same distinction when referring to liberals and I'll be damned if I let you keep trying to hold me to a standard you're incapable of meeting yourself.
Especially when you consider at the very god damn beginning of my very first god damn full paragraph in this thread I state that voting for Trump doesn't make you ANY OF THE THINGS I HATE TRUMP FOR.
Me said:
So yeah. Voting for Trump doesn't make you a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic... bad person. It just means you're okay with racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia as long as you can benefit from it somehow. Because focusing on the policies you AGREE with don't erase the policies you DON'T agree with. It's a package deal. And voting for the man who's going to put both the policies you agree with, and the policies you don't agree with into power? That's promoting those bad policies.
This better be the last time I hear about some "generalizing" bullshit. I literally said not all of you are like that in my first full paragraph. You can't have missed it. You DIDN'T miss it. You just snipped it out of your argument to preserve your
own argument.
Also, stop pulling Anakin's "From my point of view it is the Jedi who are evil!" schtick. It's not my "opinion" that the Trump supporters that I've spoken to are either immoral or ignorant. One of my co-workers claimed every single Muslim was a terrorist. That's ignorance. That's not an insult either. Ignorance is lacking knowledge. He
lacked the
knowledge to make the claim he was making and thus, I'm justified in calling him ignorant.
Lastly on this particular quote, "this instance that no one but you can authentic"? I couldn't care less if you believe me. That's not passive aggression either. It's not aggression at all. It's just there's no way I can prove it, and if you're not going to take my word for it, then I'm wasting my time.
Styx said:
And don't twist my words for the sake of your hypocritical argument. I didn't say it is amusing people insult Trump for "being a shitty person". Please learn to read correctly. I said it is amusing how you people can easily do the things you hate other people for, including Trump. Example, yet again, is your initial post generalizing all of us into a hateful, racist etc group and expressing hatred not only towards Trump but us...and yet Trump/supporters are the devil incarnate for doing the same things?
If you are going to have values, at least stand by them 100%.
Sure you did. You just tried to change it in a way that makes ME the bad guy. You keep saying that I'm doing the same things as Trump and his supporters by "generalizing", all of them which isn't what I'm doing (and isn't the reason I hate Trump or the shitty part of his supporters). I'm insulting Trump and the supporters that act like the one's I've met because of his policies and who he is as a person. Only them. You're assigning an argument to me that I'm not making because this concocted version of me is easier to vilify than the real me in these actual posts. You need to make me the enemy because it let's you avoid confronting my questions (all of which you've still avoided answering, I might add. That isn't a mistake either. You're doing it on purpose.) And you find it amusing (you don't, you're just being condescending) that my criticisms are ill natured while I'm belittling Trump and the "deplorable" part of his voter base.
I'll clarify again: I'm not condemning the entirety of Trump's voter base, or Trump himself, for how he talks about people. I'm condemning Trump for actually being a racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, amoral cretin. For his
actions. Likewise, his deplorable portion of followers who don't hold him accountable for the shit he's doing, and then take up arms to protect him when he's ridiculed for being a shitty human being.
That's why your argument falls flat. Because
I'm not a hypocrite unless I'm doing the same things that I hate Trump and the indoctrinated portion of his followers for.
I literally can't explain it any better than that. And my value's are just fine. Granted, they don't meet your standards but, not everyone can be the paradigm of leadership and moral responsibility that Donald Trump is.
Styx said:
Dishonesty here, or did you really not understand a thing I said? I didn't compare you to Trump for being racist, homophobic etc. I said you are no better than the people you condemn because you do the same things you hate them for, e.i generalizing us all (thinking we all hate Muslims, gays etc), insulting us etc. Though since it was missed, you are not the only person I was referencing hypocritical behavior from.
Right, I understood. I'm just re-writing your own argument because you're re-writing mine. And what do you know! You quote (and bolded!) the exact statement I was referring to earlier about failing to put the word "some", before Trump supporters. Yet chose not to point out the instances where I
did. Tricky business, that. Some might call it cherry-picking. It's a fair mistake though so I won't attack you for it, but let's step into the bizarro world and assume that I WAS generalizing the entirety of Trump's support base. Let's say I DID say that all of you were amoral racist homophobic transphobic Islamaphobic assholes.
Would saying those things really be tantamount to actually banning people from entering the country due to their religion? Or preventing transexuals from serving in the military? Wanting to torture innocent civilians? Wanting to kill teenagers for a crime they didn't commit?
Of course not. So even if I was a shitty human being for generalizing all of Trump's supporters, I still come out as a better person than all of the people I'm generalizing because I've committed no atrocities equal to anything Trump or his supporters has done short of those generalizations. Hell I wish generalizing people was the worse thing Donald Trump has done in the 6 months he's been our president. I WISH.
And let's be realistic here: let's say you're "One of the good ones" (not quoted for sarcasm or any hidden meaning, just a faster way of saying a Trump supporter that doesn't actually agree with most of what he's doing). That you voted for Trump because of the parts of his policy you agreed with that were morally sound, and not because of the ones you disagreed with, that are inherently accepted as amoral by anyone that feels empathy for anyone that's not their same skin color. You
still gave him the power to push forth the policies that you didn't agree with, which means you, at some point, stopped and decided that you are okay with them. If you weren't okay with a Muslim ban when he mentioned it before the election, and still voted him in, then you pushed aside your moral reasoning in order to gain whatever else you thought you'd get from a Trump presidency (let's just say more jobs for example), which means you settled on hurting people to acquire what's best for you. Even if you're the nicest person in America, you just shat on millions of people with your vote, and that's not hyperbole.
And that's far more disgusting than me generalizing
anyone.
Styx said:
I'll restate it. This is the bit I am referring to (when I referenced you), where you use your (few) encounters with a few Trump supporters to vent about your hatred and disgust of Trump supporters. The humorous part, since you do not seem to understand, is how easily you do the same thing you condemn us and Trump for. Or, even worse, you think it is okay to do completely unrelated to your hatred of Trump so long as it is against people you hate (us, Trump supporters, based off the interactions of a few).
You're applying my hatred for Trump and his deplorable voter base to all of Trump supporters. You're doing that, not me. What's weird is that I never even said I hated the ones in my workplace. All of them are nice to me, and the one that used to live in West Virginia is a good friend of mine. It doesn't mean I can't use his dumb ass testimony as reasoning for my ridicule of (some) Trump supporters. I didn't even mention my cousin who voted for Trump (whom I also don't hate, yet don't have a problem calling a dumb fuck). Only reason I didn't mention him though is because I haven't confronted him about it the way I have these co-workers so I can't give any reasoning for him voting for him.
I'll say one last time in closing: I'm not doing the thing that I condemn SOME Trump supporters, and Trump himself for. Because generalizing isn't the thing that I criticize SOME Trump supporters for.
1: I criticize Trump for being a racist, sexist, trans... I'm not listing it all again. You knew what he was before you voted for him.
2: I criticize SOME Trump supporters for sharing Trump's beliefs about other races and religions; and voting for him to allow him to put these heinous beliefs into action.
3: I criticize
ALL Trump supporters for, even if they don't share his beliefs, voting for him. Because they ENABLED him to use these discriminatory beliefs they claim they don't agree with. A perfect analogy would be you not shooting me yourself, yet handing Donald Trump a loaded gun moments after he tells me he's going to shoot me. You didn't commit the act, and you claim you're not okay with it, but you both knew his intentions AND made sure he could pull it off, so your hands aren't clean.
Feel free to call this "debate" a win if you want. I won't be responding to any reply that doesn't answer the questions asked in my first post. Literally nothing you typed so far in response to me has been helpful in alleviating the pre-concieved notions I have about a good deal of the Trump support base. On the contrary it's confirming my suspicions.
