Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

[M3J]

On a side note, I think it's immature to result to defamation during an argument, arguments be it deductive or inductive are all about points on the topic and not on the person.

No mercy for those who are condescending/rude first.

During the marine ford war, luck didn't save him. Law+Shanks+white beard pirates did. The whole point of the time skip was to show that Luck can't get you everything, Luffy learnt his lesson. He's not going to make the same mistake again and leave everything to luck.

He said that Roger becoming the pirate king was surprising. Roger wasn't always strong, after he became the pirate king he was undefeatable (shiki said it himself, he refused to believe Roger was defeated) but he was weak before he became the pirate king, just like Luffy is now. If Luffy becomes the pirate king (and the strongest man alive) people will say the same thing about him


The difference is, crocodile left him alive because he thought Luffy wasn't a threat. Replace crocodile with the marines and Luffy would've died. The thing is, you're thinking that Luffy survived every fight due to Luck. Luck helped him but he didn't survive solely due to luck.

Luck did save him as well. One example would be none of Kizaru's attack hitting Law's ship when it was underwater. oh, and another is them landing on ice instead of water, I think?

whole point of timeskip was for Luffy to get stronger so he could actually stand a chance in the New World. Luffy didn't leave most things to luck though, at least when he was fighting. He was self-confident and refused to lose, it's just luck that helped him out. His second round against Crocodile Luffy believed he'd win, until he messed up. If he wasn't lucky enough for the last drop of water to land in his mouth, he'd have been dead.

Where was that said? Not in the link I gave you. Garp said despite living recklessly, Roger was lucky and survived and became the pirate king. While Roger is powerful, he also had luck on his side to help him on at least one occasion, just as Luffy does. Luffy can become a pirate king without being the strongest, as long as he has luck on his side. I haven't seen anything to counter this, so far. Even a large fleet would have been enough to overwhelm Roger if he didn't have the luck of the weather on his side. Yeah, people will, doesn't necessarily make it true. Luffy had help from Law and other gladiators in beating Doflamingo, but does that mean it's true he's stronger than Doflamingo? Nope. Blackbeard's crew killed Whitebeard, but does that mean Blackbeard is stronger than Whitebeard? Most likely not, but the world will probably think that.

No, Crocodile left Luffy alive because he didn't expect Robin to save Luffy and thought LUffy would die anyway. And I never said he survived every fight due to luck, but luck plays a huge part in most of his fights. Hell, I even repeatedly said that he had other factors too that helped him win. Weird you'd claim I said this when there's clear proof I haven't. And the Marines would have arrested Luffy, not kill him. Or actually, he'd be lucky enough not to get arrested because he's doing something that SMoker and Tashigi couldn't do, beat a shichibukai.

Lol, and you still make no valid points. Must be oblivious to how shounens work. Luffy will be Pirate King, therefore, he'd be the strongest. It's delusional to say otherwise when the opponent is the likes of Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard and Shanks. If you're not at least as strong as these guys, you expect Luffy to become Pirate King? Delusional, lol. There's only so far luck will take one.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2017 ---

He did try to become Pirate King until Roger became it. Why else do you think Roger offered him the location of Raftel if he didn't want it initially? Why do you think Roger and Whitebeard went to Wano and had Oden, someone who can read the Poneglyphs... on their ships? Whitebeard had aspiration, he just lost it after and chose to make someone else Pirate King. No one goes to the Grand line without such ambitions. Roger only told important information to his rivals, Garp and Whitebeard; Garp was the existence of his child and Whitebeard, the existence of One Piece.

One hell of an assumption. Whitebeard doesn't have to want to become a pirate king for Roger to offer him the location of Raftel. If Whitebeard cared about that, then why did he turn down Roger?

Where did you get that Whitebeard went to Wano and recruited Oden? And can you prove Whitebeard had aspirations to become a pirate king, when he himself said he cared about having a family and years later didn't care for the location of Raftel? Cuz so far, all you're doing is assuming based on nothing but your interpretations and what you wish was true.

... Roger told everyone about ONe Piece before his execution, and Whitebeard confirmed it was real.... Isn't Roger seen as a myth by some characters, or is that another manga I'm thinking of?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You want a secret? Okay it is the third time I say it but well.... this comment was a joke. Though, I would like to know from where you know from fact he knows for sure the One Piece exists or what it is. A page or SBSS maybe?

Just requires a bit of common sense.

Roger was stated as the only person to find the One Piece - this is reading comprehension.

Everything else follows, lol.

Aaaah I got it, since

Clearly do not.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2017 ---

Where did you get that Whitebeard went to Wano and recruited Oden?

Do some research.

Oden sailed with the Whitebeard Pirates. Then Roger scouted him. You think Oden would just have changed ships? It's very likely they fought over Oden knowing the secrets he held regarding the Poneglyph.

One hell of an assumption. Whitebeard doesn't have to want to become a pirate king for Roger to offer him the location of Raftel. If Whitebeard cared about that, then why did he turn down Roger?

Why do you think Roger and Whitebeard landed in Wano? A country related to the Poneglyphs. Certainly isn't just coincidence. They had agendas.

And can you prove Whitebeard had aspirations to become a pirate king, when he himself said he cared about having a family and years later didn't care for the location of Raftel? Cuz so far, all you're doing is assuming based on nothing but your interpretations and what you wish was true.

Wrong pal.

No one becomes a Yonko without intentions to be Pirate King, that much should be common sense. A desire doesn't take away the goal to be Pirate King. Big Mom never said she wanted to be Pirate King, she wants a country where all people of all races can come together, yet she wants One Piece meaning she wants to be Pirate King; Kaido wants a crew full of beasts, but wants One Piece therefore, he wants to be Pirate King despite not saying so explicitly. Anyone can have a reason no matter how absurd and still want to be Pirate King at the same time. Luffy just wants adventures, yet wants to be Pirate King. So, just because Whitebeard wants a family doesn't negate or contradict desire to be Pirate King just like Big Mom wanting a big family like Whitebeard doesn't negate the fact she wants to be Pirate King.

Whitebeard wanted a family, he didn't need to become a Pirate to do that. He could have settled on land and married, had sons and whatnot. He did aim to be Pirate King or he'd never have become a great Pirate in the New World. One doesn't need to be a Pirate to generate a family, that makes 0 sense.

Those with Conqueror's Haki are also people who have ambition to be King which requires the One Piece, so yes, at a point, he did desire it.

It's just common sense. If Whitebeard who had fought Roger all this time hadn't desired One Piece, then why would Roger offer him the location? It's common sense. It's not rocket science.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Just requires a bit of common sense.

Do you realize how s***** you make yourself? You are so full of yourself, probably not. But keep going you amuse me and probably others too.
If you were not so much full of yourself, you would stop making big claims pretending you know everything. You were showed countless times that even things were likely to be in a certain way, you could not rule out some other possibilities.

This is how we end with arguments such as "it is obvious", "it is common sense". The more you push you keep adding big claims and you do not realize it. Three times you used common sense to justify yourself only in your last post. When you say "it is common sense", translated it means "I have no clue, but I still pretend I do"

Those with Conqueror's Haki are also people who have ambition to be King

Assumption

Why do you think Roger and Whitebeard landed in Wano? A country related to the Poneglyphs. Certainly isn't just coincidence. They had agendas

Assumption.

You think Oden would just have changed ships? It's very likely they fought over Oden knowing the secrets he held regarding the Poneglyph.

Assumption. And if you think as Roger being similar to Luffy and considering WB character, it is rather unlikely.

Whitebeard wanted a family, he didn't need to become a Pirate to do that. He could have settled on land and married, had sons and whatnot. He did aim to be Pirate King or he'd never have become a great Pirate in the New World. One doesn't need to be a Pirate to generate a family, that makes 0 sense

Again, assumption. And it is not so much the fact he wanted a family but he was never interested in treasures.

Clearly do not.

And on top, you are dishonest. Well not my fault if you wrote something and do not realize the meaning of what you write. You had to pathetically cut your sentence in a quote and tried to change the meaning.

 

[Enima]

Luck did save him as well. One example would be none of Kizaru's attack hitting Law's ship when it was underwater. oh, and another is them landing on ice instead of water, I think?

Luck, alone isn't enough to save him. There were many instances during the war where Luck didn't save him.

Where was that said? Not in the link I gave you. Garp said despite living recklessly, Roger was lucky and survived and became the pirate king. While Roger is powerful, he also had luck on his side to help him on at least one occasion, just as Luffy does. Luffy can become a pirate king without being the strongest, as long as he has luck on his side. I haven't seen anything to counter this, so far. Even a large fleet would have been enough to overwhelm Roger if he didn't have the luck of the weather on his side. Yeah, people will, doesn't necessarily make it true. Luffy had help from Law and other gladiators in beating Doflamingo, but does that mean it's true he's stronger than Doflamingo? Nope. Blackbeard's crew killed Whitebeard, but does that mean Blackbeard is stronger than Whitebeard? Most likely not, but the world will probably think that.

I don't know about that. Garp was referring to the fact that Roger was kinda stupid, just like Luffy is now. Many people find it amusing when Luffy tells them he want's to become the PK because he is not that smart (they don't judge him based on his strength which is abnormal for his age). If you ask a normal person in the OP world "who's more likely to become PK Luffy or Law?" most will say Law because Luffy isn't intimidating or smart.

Like I already mentioned. He was referring to the fact that Roger survived Long enough to become pirate king. Take Luffy, we can say for sure that he'll become the pirate king, but he wasn't always strong. Normally, a weak pirate with his personality would've died long ago. That's where Luck protected Roger. After becoming the PK he was the strongest man alive (along with whitebeard)

Being the strongest doesn't mean you can't lose under any conditions. It simply means under normal conditions it would be Impossible to overwhelm you.

No, Crocodile left Luffy alive because he didn't expect Robin to save Luffy and thought LUffy would die anyway. And I never said he survived every fight due to luck, but luck plays a huge part in most of his fights. Hell, I even repeatedly said that he had other factors too that helped him win. Weird you'd claim I said this when there's clear proof I haven't. And the Marines would have arrested Luffy, not kill him. Or actually, he'd be lucky enough not to get arrested because he's doing something that SMoker and Tashigi couldn't do, beat a shichibukai.

Exactly! Nobody's going to try that with the pirate king. If somebody managed to beat the PK then they would make sure he's dead. At that time Luffy was a nobody but the PK is the most wanted man in the world.

I must've missed that.

Again, Luffy was a no name rookie. The PK is different. If they captured the pirate king they're gonna kill him.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Assumption. And if you think as Roger being similar to Luffy

Lol, this was established very early on in the Manga. Again, proof you're clueless.

You were showed countless times that even things were likely to be in a certain way, you could not rule out some other possibilities.

Lol when? Never did. You're crying over the fact that Pirate King is the strongest. You have no evidence to prove otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2017 ---

Roger was actually not a wall to WB, since WB never wanted to be Pirate King.

You unintelligent or disingenuously say the opposite of what the Manga says which makes you delusional.

Roger not a wall to Whitebeard? When Shiki himself said so? Lol?

Akainu said so.

Yet you think you're an authority on facts when the Manga is? Have to be living in some fantasy world where what you say is right despite the Canon saying otherwise.

Like I said, do your research, learn to read properly and understand the words in sentences because you're showing ability to do otherwise consistently.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Again, proof you're clueless.

You are clearly deprived of some functions. I am sorry to tell you so. You cut AGAIN the sentence, answering to something that was not said.

Lol when?

Dude, it's obvious. Common sense and an ability to read.

Roger not a wall to Whitebeard? When Shiki himself said so? Lol?

AHAAHAHA Seriously, I love you man. You can even undermine your own points.
WB answering on the same page: You spout petty nonsense.

Akainu said so

Ah, new argument: Akainu said so. So it is true.

Yet you think you're an authority on facts when the Manga is? Have to be living in some fantasy world where what you say is right despite the Canon saying otherwise

You cannot read and you cannot do proper argumentation. Mind if I ask why you keep going? I never pretend that, but glad you did not contradict me, I knew you were full of yourself. Be a good boy, listen to WB: "You spout petty nonsense". Here is your canon.

You know (ah no, you don't, sorry) from the beginning I say same things. Just to take the last exemple: Does the One Piece exist? Probably, almost 100% sure. Can it be bullshit, a trick from Roger, or somehing else? Unlikely less than 1% maybe, but yes.

Like I said, do your research, learn to read properly and understand the words in sentences because you're showing ability to do otherwise consistently.

You like repeating what I tell you, huh?

Luck, alone isn't enough to save him.

Sometimes it was, but it is part of the manga and it is normal. Hopefully Luffy canno / will not survive repeatdly only thanks to luck alone.
As for Crocodile he genuinely thought he killed him so yeah... but not the first time one survives because the other one thought he was dead, without double checking.

 

[Kuza]

That's irrelevant, that was in the past. The situation has changed. He's come to her territory and sabotaged her plans to be Pirate King. Even Jimbei said if they make Big Mom mad or if he leaves, Fishman Island would incur the wrath of Big Mom.



Again this is wrong. To stand on top of others means to be the strongest.

And it's false to claim it's a bad translation when the official says the same thing, so your argument here is just moot.

Pirate King isn't about anything other than Conquering the Grand Line and it's impossible to do so without defeating the Yonko and Admirals.

Whitebeard and Shiki got stopped by Roger, they tried to become Pirate King but failed, that's why Shiki said Roger was a wall to them. So, it's a fact, he was the strongest.

Hell, Whitebeard was never considered the strongest UNTIL Roger died. Roger was the Pirate King because he was the strongest. Without strength, you can't defeat the other Emperors, take their Poneglyphs and obtain the One Piece.

Being PK has absolutely nothing to do with conquering anything, did you pay any attention to manga? Remember Luffy and Reileigh dialogue? Luffy doesn't want to and won't conquer anything, he wants to be the most free person in the world which was the same definition for Roger as Reileigh confirmed in that dialogue. You have 0 evidence for your claim that Roger was strongest, we haven't seen a single combat of his, nothing. He was super lucky, never gave up and never abandoned his nakama, sounds familiar? It is established in manga that to become PK one has to reach Raftel and obtain One Piece whatever it is, one has to find 4 road poneglyphs to do so, SHs currently have 2/4 without defeating a single yonko,is it possible for them to reach Raftel without defeating a single yonko? Yes, do they have to be strongest? No.

Also whitebeard never intended to become PK, unlike Shiki who was rekt by pre timeskip Luffy (non canon but still)

Your arguments are invalid on so many levels, it seems we are reading different stories.

No one becomes a Yonko without intentions to be Pirate King, that much should be common sense. A desire doesn't take away the goal to be Pirate King. Big Mom never said she wanted to be Pirate King, she wants a country where all people of all races can come together, yet she wants One Piece meaning she wants to be Pirate King; Kaido wants a crew full of beasts, but wants One Piece therefore, he wants to be Pirate King despite not saying so explicitly. Anyone can have a reason no matter how absurd and still want to be Pirate King at the same time. Luffy just wants adventures, yet wants to be Pirate King. So, just because Whitebeard wants a family doesn't negate or contradict desire to be Pirate King just like Big Mom wanting a big family like Whitebeard doesn't negate the fact she wants to be Pirate King.

Whitebeard wanted a family, he didn't need to become a Pirate to do that. He could have settled on land and married, had sons and whatnot. He did aim to be Pirate King or he'd never have become a great Pirate in the New World. One doesn't need to be a Pirate to generate a family, that makes 0 sense.

Those with Conqueror's Haki are also people who have ambition to be King which requires the One Piece, so yes, at a point, he did desire it.

It's just common sense. If Whitebeard who had fought Roger all this time hadn't desired One Piece, then why would Roger offer him the location? It's common sense. It's not rocket science.

BM said she wants to become PK, Whitebeard wanted a family and didn't have anything to do with PK stuff, Kaido wants to die and destroy the world for what we know and Shanks, his agenda we don't know, but it seems he's more about chilling and helping new generations, sometimes serving justice. BB wants to be PK, so 3/5 yonkos didnt show any interest in being PK so far, 2 of them (Shanks and WB) had all means to reach Raftel. No common sense jn contradicting manga and saying that WB wanted to be PK when he didn't.

 

[Brandish μ]

Guys, no more baiting will be tolerated. Treat each other with common courtesy, as outlined in the Forum Rules. There's too much "can you read bro" in your posts.

On topic - I've said this before, the title of PK will be Luffy's when he's acknowledged by the verse as the pirate king. Finding the One Piece (ie replicating Roger's feats) is the bare minimum for that. Whether or not Luffy has to be the strongest character... Idk, you'd think he'd be that or pretty close.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Being PK has absolutely nothing to do with conquering anything, did you pay any attention to manga? Remember Luffy and Reileigh dialogue? Luffy doesn't want to and won't conquer anything, he wants to be the most free person in the world which was the same definition for Roger as Reileigh confirmed in that dialogue. You have 0 evidence for your claim that Roger was strongest, we haven't seen a single combat of his, nothing. He was super lucky, never gave up and never abandoned his nakama, sounds familiar? It is established in manga that to become PK one has to reach Raftel and obtain One Piece whatever it is, one has to find 4 road poneglyphs to do so, SHs currently have 2/4 without defeating a single yonko,is it possible for them to reach Raftel without defeating a single yonko? Yes, do they have to be strongest? No.

Also whitebeard never intended to become PK, unlike Shiki who was rekt by pre timeskip Luffy (non canon but still)

Your arguments are invalid on so many levels, it seems we are reading different stories.

Okay, there's something you're clearly oblivious to. When Luffy says Conquer, it's in the context of ruling. When Luffy says he's not going to Conquer anything, he means he's not going to rule the Grand Line or be some sort of Emperor (Big-shot). He is nonetheless going to defeat these people, or Conquer them, he has to.

The fact is he has to conquer it. Rayleigh says "there will be strong enemies", and you think Luffy defeating them doesn't mean he's conquering them? When you defeat an opponent, it means you conquered them. You think Luffy stating he's not going to Conquer the Grand line is just a vague statement? or implying he doesn't need to fight?

He's in Big Mom's territory, he's going to go to Kaido's, of course he's going to have to Conquer his enemies. The only thing he won't be doing is ruling. He doesn't intend to be a Yonko which is why when he was offered the Grand Fleet, he said he didn't want to be a big-shot.

Right now he has a fleet and an army to take down Kaido, or for better wording, CONQUER Kaido. So, how you can tell me he's not conquering anything when you're not using the right context contradicts your beliefs.

Not sure if you're aware or unaware that the CURRENT translator (VIZ Translation) re-translated earlier works of the series and because his understanding of Japanese was acknowledged, he is now the current translator, and here's his translation of what Luffy said when speaking to Rayleigh. If you read this Manga keenly and actually care about translations in attempt to make sense of the story, the name Stephen should mean something to you.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/2009071...reener.com:80/stephen/onepiece/chapter507.txt

So, when he said he's not going to Conquer, he's saying it in the context of not ruling anything. He's going to have to Conquer the Grand line in the context of defeating the Emperors in order to be Pirate King. Without defeating, one cannot become Pirate King, I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp when it's so blatant and explicitly stated.

Spoiler

Being Pirate King is about finding One Piece. Reasons for finding it do not matter. Most people want to be Pirate King to rule which is what the likes of people like Big Mom and Kaido aim to do. They want to expand territory and rule. Once you defeat all your opponents, there's only 2 ways to go:

1. To rule the their territory.
2. Or to be Free like Luffy who is the only besides Roger who doesn't want to rule and leave that territory for whatever adventure is next.
3. Obviously, when you've conquered every territory, you've conquered the Grand line and it becomes a matter of wanting to rule it or go on whatever adventure is next which is Luffy's prerogative.

Conquering it is required whether you want to believe it or not.

Your arguments are invalid on so many levels, it seems we are reading different stories.

It is established in manga that to become PK one has to reach Raftel and obtain One Piece whatever it is, one has to find 4 road poneglyphs to do so, SHs currently have 2/4 without defeating a single yonko,is it possible for them to reach Raftel without defeating a single yonko? Yes, do they have to be strongest? No.

Really?

So, beating the 4 most powerful people in the OPverse doesn't require being the strongest? That's like out-running the fastest men over a 100 meter course in the world and then claiming to not be the fastest sprinter at 100 meters. When you defeat the 4 most power Pirates and Admirals, you're without doubt the strongest.

Kaido wants to die

That's irrelevant, it's a Hobby. It's not his sole purpose in life - you mean you can't have a dream and hobby at the same time? Want to be the American President, but having a Hobby liek golf means you can't? Hobby and Dream are not really related, they're 2 rather separate concepts.

He's looking for One Piece, therefore, he aims to be Pirate King. You're now saying the opposite of what is required to become Pirate King. Somehow, to you, finding One Piece =/= Pirate King. You're contradicting yourself here. So, Kaido finds One Piece, he's not Pirate King?

Also whitebeard never intended to become PK, unlike Shiki who was rekt by pre timeskip Luffy (non canon but still)

Whitebeard was the closest to the One Piece, why? because he was the strongest as Buggy explicitly said below. Whitebeard only became the Strongest after Roger died, so I'm not sure how you can say Roger wasn't the strongest. He was a Pirate that was not once defeated. This is why Shiki couldn't believe it or remotely rationalise the idea that anyone defeated Roger. I don't think you've quite appreciated how Shiki, someone with the greatest fleet of his time sabotaged his standing as a Great Pirate and recklessly stampeded into Marineford all alone...without his crew... just because someone said Roger had been captured and he couldn't believe. Roger was just that powerful.

I cannot get my head around how you can claim being the strongest and defeating the 4 Emperors is not needed to be Pirate King, yet...

Luffy says he needs to defeat them.

Big Mom says the same, she needs to defeat Kaido, Shanks and Whitebeard (but now Blackbeard), so where exactly are you getting your information from that being the strongest isn't required? You don't just stumble into One Piece, you have to go through people for it.

I really don't know how many times the Manga has to iterate this fact, defeating the Yonko and Admirals is a NECESSITY to become Pirate King. It's not an option.

I mean just the chapter alone explicitly states the Emperors fight each other and try to steal Ponegylph from each other. There's a reason power is needed. Being Pirate King is absolutely impossible without power.

Go pre-skip, even Moriah said if he had the power of Oars, he'd have been able to defeat Kaido and get a step closer to becoming Pirate.

I'm just giving you facts, they're right there for all to see.

Food for thought though:

1. Whitebeard was the strongest Pirate after Roger, and said to be the closest to the Grand-line.
2. Yet, he to our knowledge is not interested in One Piece, but somehow the closest to the Grand-line?

Seems very much like strength has a very major role in being Pirate King. Big Mom always had a Road Poneglyph and Kaido, to our knowledge, Whitebeard doesn't, yet the closest... Can find the One Piece by luck hypothetically or just happen to steal it unnoticed which seems to be the basis of your understand, but without strength to keep it, how won't your enemies steal it?

Strength is severely underrated. Especially for a Pirate who doesn't want an entourage of fleets by him at all times, he definitely has to be, and will be the strongest by the end of the series and he'll even be so or has to be if he's going to defeat these Emperors in his way.

unlike Shiki who was rekt by pre timeskip Luffy (non canon but still)

Irrelevant because it never happened in the Canon, it's just a film. Luffy and Sanji also broke Kairoseki in films, something impossible in the Manga for at least DF users.

 

[M3J]

Do some research.

Oden sailed with the Whitebeard Pirates. Then Roger scouted him. You think Oden would just have changed ships? It's very likely they fought over Oden knowing the secrets he held regarding the Poneglyph.

Why do you think Roger and Whitebeard landed in Wano? A country related to the Poneglyphs. Certainly isn't just coincidence. They had agendas.

Wrong pal.

No one becomes a Yonko without intentions to be Pirate King, that much should be common sense. A desire doesn't take away the goal to be Pirate King. Big Mom never said she wanted to be Pirate King, she wants a country where all people of all races can come together, yet she wants One Piece meaning she wants to be Pirate King; Kaido wants a crew full of beasts, but wants One Piece therefore, he wants to be Pirate King despite not saying so explicitly. Anyone can have a reason no matter how absurd and still want to be Pirate King at the same time. Luffy just wants adventures, yet wants to be Pirate King. So, just because Whitebeard wants a family doesn't negate or contradict desire to be Pirate King just like Big Mom wanting a big family like Whitebeard doesn't negate the fact she wants to be Pirate King.

Ironic coming from you, but then again it's not as much about your lack of research as it is about you twisting manga to suit what you want.

can you prove they fought over Oden? What if Oden wanted to join Roger because Roger had different goals than Whitebeard, who might have been okay with Oden's decision?

What was Whitebeard's agenda? Can you prove it? All you're doing is giving me assumptions based on what you want and your twisting of the manga.

That's a horrible logic and conclusion. Whitebeard clearly has never had any aspiration to become a pirate king, and yet he became a Yonkou. Whitebeard has never implied he ever wanted to become a pirate king, otherwise why would he refuse to learn the location of Raftel from Roger? Why would he say he doesn't care? Why, despite being known as the strongest man in the world, he never became the pirate king and focused more on making Ace the pirate king? At this point, it feels like Oda may have to draw you a picture.

Wanting One Piece doesn't mean one wants to become a pirate king.

Whitebeard wanted a family, he didn't need to become a Pirate to do that. He could have settled on land and married, had sons and whatnot. He did aim to be Pirate King or he'd never have become a great Pirate in the New World. One doesn't need to be a Pirate to generate a family, that makes 0 sense.

Those with Conqueror's Haki are also people who have ambition to be King which requires the One Piece, so yes, at a point, he did desire it.

It's just common sense. If Whitebeard who had fought Roger all this time hadn't desired One Piece, then why would Roger offer him the location? It's common sense. It's not rocket science.

He chose to become a pirate for reasons unknown so far. Having a huge pirate crew is different from settling down and having a family. It makes more sense than claiming someone wanted to be a pirate king when he made it clear that he never wanted to become one.

What? Next thing we know, you'll tell me those who grow a mustache have ambition to become a pirate king.

Exactly, and yet you seem to think Whitebeard wanted to become a pirate king. Common sense would dictate that since Whitebeard refused to know where Raftel was and said he didn't care, he actually didn't have aspirations to become a pirate king, or much of an aspiration. Common sense says that given Whitebeard was so powerful, he should have become the pirate king and yet, he did not become a pirate king. It's not rocket science, manga tells us Whitebeard did not care to become a pirate king, and the manga backed it up.

Show me where Whitebeard himself says he wanted to become the pirate king. It's not rocket science, and yet you make it look like rocket science by arguing against what Whitebeard himself has said. And Roger offered Whitebeard the location out of friendship and respect, as we see them sharing a drink together.

Luck, alone isn't enough to save him. There were many instances during the war where Luck didn't save him.


I don't know about that. Garp was referring to the fact that Roger was kinda stupid, just like Luffy is now. Many people find it amusing when Luffy tells them he want's to become the PK because he is not that smart (they don't judge him based on his strength which is abnormal for his age). If you ask a normal person in the OP world "who's more likely to become PK Luffy or Law?" most will say Law because Luffy isn't intimidating or smart.

Like I already mentioned. He was referring to the fact that Roger survived Long enough to become pirate king. Take Luffy, we can say for sure that he'll become the pirate king, but he wasn't always strong. Normally, a weak pirate with his personality would've died long ago. That's where Luck protected Roger. After becoming the PK he was the strongest man alive (along with whitebeard)

Being the strongest doesn't mean you can't lose under any conditions. It simply means under normal conditions it would be Impossible to overwhelm you.


Exactly! Nobody's going to try that with the pirate king. If somebody managed to beat the PK then they would make sure he's dead. At that time Luffy was a nobody but the PK is the most wanted man in the world.

I must've missed that.

Again, Luffy was a no name rookie. The PK is different. If they captured the pirate king they're gonna kill him.

In those instances though, Luffy was also in control to a degree. He wasn't when the ship was falling, and when he was unconscious on Law's ship.

Garp was also saying Roger was lucky enough to survive as long as he did despite his stupidity. And most would say Luffy based on his power and accomplishments. He was intimidating enough that an impostor would have gotten away with pretending to be Luffy if it weren't for Sentomaru. Luffy is pretty feared as a son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, the person who broke into Enies Lobby and Impel Down, and survived the Marineford War. Law has not accomplished any of those, so any knowledgeable character would choose Luffy.

Even as one of the strongest men, Roger still had luck by his side, otherwise he'd have lost to Shiki. We don't know how many times luck helped him, but Garp implied luck was a big part of why Roger became a pirate king.

Would they really? All they have to do is declare and prove that they did beat the pirate king.

You did miss it, multiple times.

Still doesn't change the fact that luck saved Luffy, and that he won despite not being stronger than Crocodile.

Guys, no more baiting will be tolerated. Treat each other with common courtesy, as outlined in the Forum Rules. There's too much "can you read bro" in your posts.

On topic - I've said this before, the title of PK will be Luffy's when he's acknowledged by the verse as the pirate king. Finding the One Piece (ie replicating Roger's feats) is the bare minimum for that. Whether or not Luffy has to be the strongest character... Idk, you'd think he'd be that or pretty close.

He just has to be close to the strongest, not necessarily the strongest.

I cannot get my head around how you can claim being the strongest and defeating the 4 Emperors is not needed to be Pirate King, yet...

I's not even necessary to beat the Yonkou to become pirate king, Roger most likely never had to do that.

 

[Kuza]

@Hannibal Psyche I disagree respectfully with you on so many points its even hard to start.

First of all the concept of conquering - in my world it's claiming something that belongs to someone else through defeating that person or other means like diplomacy, applicable to lands, property, country, city or whatever, also submitting someone to your will. Luffy has no interest in any of that, he wants to be free, eat meat, have adventures and become PK.

About title PK - it's a pirate who reached Raftel and claimed One Piece, whatever it is.

About Kaido - where has it been stated that he seeks OP? In my mind he wants to fuck the world and/or die, since he is immortal and crazy.

About means to reach Raftel and therefore become PK - you've written it yourself with references, one has to gather 4 road poneglyphs and find and reach Raftel. Yes they are currently in BM territory, but believe me or not they will leave it most likely with BM undefeated or "defeated" in some comical way, WITH a copy of her road poneglyph, they just needed to steal it. So can one obtain all 4 poneglyphs without defeating yonkos? Yes, it's happening right now, copy is in Brooks head. Does this person need to be strong? Hell yes. strongest? Not necessarily.

My point is - from manga up to this point it's claer Luffy can't match yonkos in strengh, so in my opinion story will havea lot of fights but it is not conditional to Luffy to defeat all yonkos to become PK. Also you reference his words, they mean nothing for me, he is stupid and trash talks on every occasion, he can't live up to his words, it's sad but thats what Oda did in this arc. We have to face that this manga is not like others where main protagonist rekts everyone with ridiculous power ups and its end. It's a journey, a journey to become PK, more specifically to find Raftel. Next they will encounter Kaido, they might overwhelm his army but he isnt going down, even though they might be able to obtain his poneglyph this time, leading the story into finding the last road poneglyph and to final part. That's my vision, I respect yours, but I dont think this manga is about Luffy defeating each and every guy and only then becoming PK. Hell, I think he will only have 2-3 major fights from now on - Kaido, BB, WG, all related to each other involving revolutionaries and other side characters as triggers.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

First of all the concept of conquering - in my world it's claiming something that belongs to someone else through defeating that person or other means like diplomacy, applicable to lands, property, country, city or whatever, also submitting someone to your will. Luffy has no interest in any of that, he wants to be free, eat meat, have adventures and become PK.

Again, where did I even say he wanted to claim control over the Grand Line? I explicitly said he's not in it to rule. He is nonetheless going to have to defeat all his opponents, he's going to have to conquer the Yonko, that much is a fact.

About Kaido - where has it been stated that he seeks OP?

Erm... so why is he interrogating and torturing Oden to extract the details of the One Piece that Oden learnt of during his time with Roger?

1. Oden was someone who learnt what One Piece at Raftel was like Rayleigh. Kaido was trying to get that information.
2. Why do you think Kaido has a Road Poneglyph if he's not interested in One Piece?

You're ignoring key information, it's stated the Yonko attempt to steal Ponegylph from each other. Kaido is in fact trying to be Pirate King. There's no other reason to be seeking information as to what One Piece by extracting information.

About means to reach Raftel and therefore become PK - you've written it yourself with references, one has to gather 4 road poneglyphs and find and reach Raftel. Yes they are currently in BM territory, but believe me or not they will leave it most likely with BM undefeated or "defeated" in some comical way, WITH a copy of her road poneglyph, they just needed to steal it. So can one obtain all 4 poneglyphs without defeating yonkos? Yes, it's happening right now, copy is in Brooks head. Does this person need to be strong? Hell yes. strongest? Not necessarily.

Again, you're wrong.

Obtaining the Poneglyph is a power struggle, otherwise, Big Mom wouldn't need the Germa army, or try to form an alliance with the Elbaph Giants if one could easily become Pirate King.

My point is - from manga up to this point it's claer Luffy can't match yonkos in strengh, so in my opinion story will havea lot of fights but it is not conditional to Luffy to defeat all yonkos to become PK.

Also you reference his words, they mean nothing for me, he is stupid and trash talks on every occasion

News flash, that's how Shounen works. The Protagonist trash talks everyone and fulfils his promises. When the Protagonist says he'll do something, he does it. Your opinion as is anyone's is irrelevant when the Manga and the Protagonist says otherwise.

He's not the only one to say so, everyone else says so. Chinjao says if he can only match his own strength, he has no chance of becoming Pirate King. Luffy will without doubt be advancing to a level of strength that warrants him the seat of the Pirate King, and that's only possible by being the strongest.

It's absurd for you to imply Luffy won't be getting much stronger when:

1. He's not Awakened.
2. He's not even reached his full potential strength-wise.
3. His Haki is still developing.

Yet, you talk as if he's already peaked in strength? That's ridiculous.

We have to face that this manga is not like others where main protagonist rekts everyone with ridiculous power ups and its end. It's a journey, a journey to become PK, more specifically to find Raftel.

Wrong again. It's more like he doesn't defeat his opponents overwhelmingly, it's not a 1-sided event like is seen in other stories, that's where you're absolutely wrong. Irrelevant whether it's a journey, it's a power struggle that is only broken through with Power.

There's a reason Mihawk told Luffy that being Pirate King is a much more grandiose achievement than becoming the World's strongest Swordsman, it's because it requires being the strongest. Everyone who has been Pirate King or closest has more or less been the strongest Pirate in the world. So, why Luffy wouldn't be is wishful thinking as it doesn't follow the trend that's been established.

Even Whitebeard who had such a massive fleet still had to be the strongest to be considered closest to the throne. No one can become Pirate King without being the strongest. You make it sound as if anyone can just happen upon the Road Poneglyphs, get to Raftel and then become Pirate King. In order to do that if it's not been made clear to you, it's impossible without defeating the Emperors, otherwise, everyone credible but yourself won't say so.

1. Big Mom said so.
2. Chinjao said so.
3. Rayleigh said so.
4. Luffy said so.

I'd rather take their words than yours because they're credible and they're actual characters in the story.

It should have been clear from the very beginning of the story. Every Pirate is looking for it, that's why it's considered impossible. There's an unimaginable amount of contention for it, therefore, it's impossible without strength.

 

[Ketimatsu]

can you prove they fought over Oden? What if Oden wanted to join Roger because Roger had different goals than Whitebeard, who might have been okay with Oden's decision?

I can perfectly imagine Oden taking the opportunity to set sail with WhiteBeard to leave Wano. And switching because he wanted to help Roger. Hannibal you recognized Roger was like Luffy: Luffy never fought over anyone to come in his crew if it was not ultimately the person's decision. And WB and Roger, clearly it seems they have a relationship of rivals, not ennemies. Cannot picture them joking and drinking together if they had fought to death over Oden.

He just has to be close to the strongest, not necessarily the strongest.

Brilliant. You sum it up perfectly in one sentence. Though not sure, some will find something to argue again. Also could be Luffy becomes the strongest in the process, but I hardly believe it and it is certainly not THE condition to be PK.
As you mentioned, Roger probably did not defeat 4 emperors. And I mean, as soons as one is out it is replaced by another one. Luffy did not need to beat the 7 Shichibukai to be done with them, and that would be endless...

Also you reference his words, they mean nothing for me, he is stupid and trash talks on every occasion, he can't live up to his words, it's sad but thats what Oda did in this arc.

Luffy talks so much shit it is unbelievable. He was on the verge, to get killed by Big Mom, he cannot stand against her and the guys is just casually telling her, wait I am going to beat somebody even stronger and i will come back later. Good point Kuza and I feel Luffy still too immature, that is annoying. It is part of his character, but hell he should know his limits. Losing Ace was not enough apparently.

News flash, that's how Shounen works. The Protagonist trash talks everyone and fulfils his promises. When the Protagonist says he'll do something, he does it. Your opinion as is anyone's is irrelevant when the Manga and the Protagonist says otherwise.

So according to you, Luffy is going to be the 8th Shichibukai.

It's a journey, a journey to become PK, more specifically to find Raftel. Next they will encounter Kaido, they might overwhelm his army but he isnt going down, even though they might be able to obtain his poneglyph this time, leading the story into finding the last road poneglyph and to final part. That's my vision, I respect yours, but I dont think this manga is about Luffy defeating each and every guy and only then becoming PK.

That is what makes it also so interesting in my opinion. It is a journey, an adventure and it is not simply about being the strongest and there are many parameters that come to play. Luffy could just have stayed 10 years with Rayleigh on his island, until he was strong enough to wreck everything, everybody not caring about the direction, the islands or the adventure. It is like Robin who declined the offer to know the lost story, because it is more than simply knowing it.

It's absurd for you to imply Luffy won't be getting much stronger when:

1. He's not Awakened.
2. He's not even reached his full potential strength-wise.
3. His Haki is still developing.

Yet, you talk as if he's already peaked in strength? That's ridiculous.

Kuza can speak for himself, but I absolutely did not see him implying that.

Wrong again. It's more like he doesn't defeat his opponents overwhelmingly, it's not a 1-sided event like is seen in other stories, that's where you're absolutely wrong. Irrelevant whether it's a journey, it's a power struggle that is only possible with Power.

You should seriously stop speaking like you know everything, that the opinions of the others are just wrong. Especially when you systematically show your unability to prove yours to be 100% RIGHT. Hell, all this are opinions, if it was 100 % sure for fact, we would not even have discussions. We will see, but I do not think Luffy will defeat the 4 emperors.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Ironic coming from you, but then again it's not as much about your lack of research as it is about you twisting manga to suit what you want.

can you prove they fought over Oden? What if Oden wanted to join Roger because Roger had different goals than Whitebeard, who might have been okay with Oden's decision?

What was Whitebeard's agenda? Can you prove it? All you're doing is giving me assumptions based on what you want and your twisting of the manga.

That's a horrible logic and conclusion. Whitebeard clearly has never had any aspiration to become a pirate king, and yet he became a Yonkou. Whitebeard has never implied he ever wanted to become a pirate king, otherwise why would he refuse to learn the location of Raftel from Roger? Why would he say he doesn't care? Why, despite being known as the strongest man in the world, he never became the pirate king and focused more on making Ace the pirate king? At this point, it feels like Oda may have to draw you a picture.

Wanting One Piece doesn't mean one wants to become a pirate king.

Twisting? You clearly haven't done any research nor read in-between the lines.

You think Roger and Whitebeard just happened upon Oden, someone related to the Poneglyph, for no reason? You think Roger and Whitebeard and Shiki were all fighting against each other for no reason? They fought for a common goal, and the only thing that brings Pirates to the Grand Line is One Piece. That's the name of this story.

It's pretty clear he eventually lost the desire to be Pirate King, otherwise, why would Roger have offered him Raftel. He must have initially wanted it. There's absolutely no reason for Whitebeard and Roger to have fought so often had they not had a common goal.

It's just common sense, common-goals are a source for conflict. If 2 people want the same thing, they'd fight for it. When you have 100s of people wanting the same thing, of course they're all going to fight. There's a reason all these Pirates fight each other.

He chose to become a pirate for reasons unknown so far. Having a huge pirate crew is different from settling down and having a family. It makes more sense than claiming someone wanted to be a pirate king when he made it clear that he never wanted to become one.

Wrong, having a family has nothing to do with being Pirate King. He could have had a family and still aimed to be Pirate King. There's absolutely no reason to rise to such a level of power and becoming a Pirate of that status without having a goal in sight.

It'd be atrocious asinine logic to think he became a Pirate merely to form a family. If it's not dawned on you yet, the entire reason people become Pirates is to find the One Piece. It should be obvious at this point.

Show me where Whitebeard himself says he wanted to become the pirate king. It's not rocket science, and yet you make it look like rocket science by arguing against what Whitebeard himself has said. And Roger offered Whitebeard the location out of friendship and respect, as we see them sharing a drink together.

It's called implications. If it takes things to be said explicitly when it's so painstakingly implied... then... anyway.

1. Why was he fighting Roger all the time then?
2. Why was he acquainted with Oden who sailed on his Ship, and then joined Roger's?
3. Oden was scouted by Roger on Whitebeard's. Hell, the fact that Oden was even interested in the Poneglyph hints that he initially sailed with Whitebeard because he also aimed to find the One Piece. It makes sense that Roger and Whitebeard fought, and the winner of that battle most likely won the right to recruit Oden permanently and continue on with their journey.

Yes, drinking after Roger had already become Pirate King and were no longer in competition. Shiki also drank with Whitebeard, it doesn't mean they weren't at a point aiming to be Pirate King. It's not like Whitebeard couldn't have decided not to become King after losing to Roger.

Implications

And regarding needing things to be explicitly said and spelt out when they've been implied, you're not the first person I've come across that reads the Manga with such a level of insightfulness.

People blindly believed that Raftel was the Island at the end of the Log-pose until "One Piece 820 : Dog and Cat Have a History 03/16/2016". It should have been obvious that only the Poneglyph led to Raftel, otherwise, getting to it wouldn't have been such a big deal if all one had to do was follow the Logpose- I'd speculated this over and over again that the Log-pose doesn't lead to Raftel, but you know, for some, if it isn't spelt-out explicitly despite heavy implications, no amount of sound logic would function on such persons.

Spoiler: December 1st 2015

People read that Jimbei stated that Blackbeard had become an Emperor in "One Piece 650 : Two changes you need to know. 12/14/2011" and the Marco Pirates were being hunted down "One Piece 802 : Zou 10/01/2015"; it wasn't until "One Piece 820 : Dog and Cat Have a History 03/16/2016" they realised what really happened despite the implications and hints. Anyone who read in between the lines could easily have deduced that.

Spoiler: October 5th 2015

If something isn't explicitly said, but implied, chances are it's correct. So just because Whitebeard never said she wanted to be Pirate King doesn't mean he didn't want to at a point; fact he was 1 of the Yonko, acquainted with Oden and fought with Roger who was contending to be Pirate King heavily implies so. Hell, people had been saying that Big Mom didn't want to be Pirate King until now. Oda tends to hint a lot at things before saying so, but, I guess spoon-feeding is required for some.

I guess some people either know how to deduce things or don't.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Next they will encounter Kaido, they might overwhelm his army but he isnt going down,

Oda was interviewed this year and this what he said:

Oda: "When Kaidou appeared for the first time, I said that Luffy can't defeat such a strong character yet. And I'm yet to know how Luffy would defeat Kaidou. Probably my audience will not be satisfied if the reason for defeating Kaidou is just because Luffy's punch is so strong. Luffy and I have to find a solution somehow."

Even Oda (The Author if you didn't know) is planning for Luffy to take down Kaido.

Source: Interview

Luffy will take down BM and BB for sure.

Personally, I think that BM won't be taken down in WCI but in Elbaf. WCI was just a introduction to BM's crew so later on no introductions will be necessary. BM is a looming threat to Luffy. She will kill anyone dear to him and his crew, e.g. Makino, Dadan, Baratie, Fishman Island, Alabasta etc.. BM is also outright evil. It is shown that BM's crew murders people just for some ingredients. If she is left alone then more lives will be lost. Right now Luffy doesn't know any of this but later on he will and will take her down.

BB is threat in the future.

Shanks is the only one I am confused about. So far in the story, Luffy hasn't taken down anyone without a good reason.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Twisting? You clearly haven't done any research nor read in-between the lines.

I guess some people either know how to deduce things or don't.

When a moderator tells you no more baiting, you do not understand either?

And you are quoting yourself for a couple of gusses you got right? How many did you get wrong?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Shanks is the only one I am confused about. So far in the story, Luffy hasn't taken down anyone without a good reason.

I think this is just to prove he's fit to be Pirate King kind of how a student has to defeat or surpass their master to show what they've learnt. A way for him to prove himself to Shanks I guess. An aspect Shanks' relation with Luffy is similar to Mihawk and Zoro's, they're not enemies, but they have mutual respect for each other and their ambitions.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2017 ---

Just to further develop on this notion that what the Protagonist says can be regarded as hot-air. I really don't understand how it's okay and widely accepted that Coby can... and will become a Navy Admiral, but the idea that Luffy becomes as strong as something Coby will attain (strength comparable to the Admirals who rival the Emperors) is less believable? So, apparently, Coby will become as powerful as an Admiral, but Luffy who is the protagonist... wouldn't gain such power.

I'm really not sure where it was implied and established that Luffy will never rival the strength of the Emperors or Admirals, but Coby will. I'm not really seeing how these beliefs make sense because they're so conflicting. Fact is just like we can expect Coby to become as powerful as a rival, it's only logical and more so that Luffy will and is on his way to rivalling that power and even surpassing it.

Even Fujitora has stated that Luffy has the power to take on the Admirals and Emperors and this was before he had a fleet; Fujitora has bore witness to the strength of Luffy in Gear 4th. So, except Fujitora is a liar or delusional, and Oda having his Protagonist make bold claims was just to fill up pages and means nothing, and the stated requirement to be Pirate King being the ability to defeat the Emperors is false... then one is implying nothing in the Manga is believable and people can choose what they want to believe and what they don't despite the Manga stating otherwise?

Truth is not determined by what we like or prefer, truth is determined by facts. Speculations and deductions that's not consistent with the facts in essence becomes in essence, invalidated.

 

[Kuza]

@Hannibal Psyche I see your point, you think Luffy will get stronger and just fight it out with every major force to stay single strongest powerhouse and that's when he becomes PK, I say I don't like this and it's boring.

What's not boring is that Luffy actually loses sometime and story is not easily predictable. I was very pissed during WCI arc when he made super retarded decisions, said stuff he couldn't deliver, couldn't even hold his ground against enemy he consistently was picking fight with, that is all disappointing, but then again it's not a black and white story, it's much more complex, so I accepted that, maybe sometime in future you'd accept it too.

It's obvious for me that you think absolutely differently from me and I don't really have much desire to change your mind, especially when you don't even want to consider other ideas, so I'm out

Oda was interviewed this year and this what he said:

Oda: "When Kaidou appeared for the first time, I said that Luffy can't defeat such a strong character yet. And I'm yet to know how Luffy would defeat Kaidou. Probably my audience will not be satisfied if the reason for defeating Kaidou is just because Luffy's punch is so strong. Luffy and I have to find a solution somehow."

Even Oda (The Author if you didn't know) is planning for Luffy to take down Kaido.

Source: Interview

Luffy will take down BM and BB for sure.

Personally, I think that BM won't be taken down in WCI but in Elbaf. WCI was just a introduction to BM's crew so later on no introductions will be necessary. BM is a looming threat to Luffy. She will kill anyone dear to him and his crew, e.g. Makino, Dadan, Baratie, Fishman Island, Alabasta etc.. BM is also outright evil. It is shown that BM's crew murders people just for some ingredients. If she is left alone then more lives will be lost. Right now Luffy doesn't know any of this but later on he will and will take her down.

BB is threat in the future.

Shanks is the only one I am confused about. So far in the story, Luffy hasn't taken down anyone without a good reason.

Oda said a lot of things he didn't deliver, for example Wano Arc this year. What you referenced is hypothetical talk of author who doesn't yet know how to deal with his story in future, hell it feels he changed his mind about finishing WCI arc like couple of weeks ago. Maybe he and Law will somehow bring down Kaido, I say if they travel from BM to Kaido as is and take him down this would be plain retarded and I will probably drop this manga. Luffy can't fight yonkos as he is now, and it doesn't feel like we can afford another timeskip for him to train on animals, that's a fact, what you are saying is hypothetical. And also I would hate to go back to another confrontation with BM, they can't beat her now, they wont have a better chance so it's fucking useless struggle, just go and find Raftel instead.

 

[hokageji]

This is shounen after all, Luffy has to keep growing the strongest....

And I don't think becoming Pirate King is enough, cos there were things Roger and the jolly folk couldn't complete inspite of it. For Luffy to achieve that, his crew will have to be amongst the strongest too....

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche I see your point, you think Luffy will get stronger and just fight it out with every major force to stay single strongest powerhouse and that's when he becomes PK, I say I don't like this and it's boring.

Nope, not saying that. He'll become Pirate King by finding One Piece, but in order to do that, he has to become the strongest or defeat the strongest Pirates which is essentially the same thing.

If the world was a 100m race and at the finish line was a trophy that made any dream or desire come true, whoever made it to that trophy is in essence, the fastest. That's no different to what One Piece is, everyone is trying to obtain it, and it's only the strongest people, therefore, the person to get it is without doubt the strongest.

I'm sure you recall what Buggy said, he said after Roger died, Whitebeard was by defaul the strongest man alive. Shiki because of this stated what? This age belongs to Whitebeard, in essence, saying he'll be Pirate King. When an age belongs to someone, it's in essence saying because they're the strongest, they're the closest to One Piece. Being the strongest is what deems one closest to the throne, not Poneglyphs. Whitebeard could easily have gone to the Territories of Big Mom and Kaido, and taken their Poneglyphs if he wanted because he was just too powerful.

Where else have we seen this stated? There's a reason Blackbeard only decided he can become Pirate King ONLY AFTER he gained the Gura Gura no Mi and Yami Yami no Mi and recognised himself the strongest. The power to eliminate the power of any ability and the most powerful ability to destroy every and anything.

It's no coincidence that due to Blackbear'ds power, Chinjao thinks he's the only one capable of making a claim to the throne.

Finally, it seems you don't understand that it's not what you like that matters, it's what the facts say. Whether you find it boring is irrelevant, Oda isn't writing it to please you or get your approval. He writes what he wants. I don't like how Gear 4th looks, but it doesn't mean I can then discredit its power. You may also find it boring, others might not, something being classed as boring is subjective. What's boring to one person might be enthralling to another.

Boring or not, that doesn't determine the direction of the story. It's the past events, and the setups that have been made in the story that determine the direction the story is heading in. The setup is quite clear, the direction is quite clear.

What's not boring is that Luffy actually loses sometime and story is not easily predictable.

That's the thing, everyone has their own idea of what is boring and what is not. Just because it's boring to you doesn't mean it isn't heading in that direction. It's not a matter of liking and disliking, it's a matter of what is implied and that's what is going to determine what happens.

I don't let my feelings and opinions cloud facts, I look at things as objectively as possible and just go where it leads. I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just telling you when you bring all the facts together, it's pretty clear what's going on and what's true.

I was very pissed during WCI arc when he made super retarded decisions, said stuff he couldn't deliver, couldn't even hold his ground against enemy he consistently was picking fight with, that is all disappointing, but then again it's not a black and white story, it's much more complex, so I accepted that, maybe sometime in future you'd accept it too.

I have nothing against WCI whatever direction Oda takes. I just appreciate what I get. I'm reading it for free. It may be a complex story, but the story is far from random. Complexity also doesn't mean the story cannot be more or less fully grasped. The conclusion is not random for the most part, but what leads up to get to that conclusion might be unpredictable because there's so many ways it can be pulled of; there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

There's things I like and dislike, but I won't be letting my likes and dislikes cloud my judgement if my aim is truly to understand the story for what it is and where it's heading.