Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

[Enima]

Sometimes it was, but it is part of the manga and it is normal. Hopefully Luffy canno / will not survive repeatdly only thanks to luck alone.
As for Crocodile he genuinely thought he killed him so yeah... but not the first time one survives because the other one thought he was dead, without double checking.

Exactly, He might survive once or twice due to luck. But he can't be the pirate king because of luck.

Think of real life. At that time Luffy was like an ordinary soldier. Crocodile isn't go out of his way to make sure Luffy was dead. PK is like the Leader of a terrorist organisation, they aren't gonna assume he's dead.

In those instances though, Luffy was also in control to a degree. He wasn't when the ship was falling, and when he was unconscious on Law's ship.

Garp was also saying Roger was lucky enough to survive as long as he did despite his stupidity. And most would say Luffy based on his power and accomplishments. He was intimidating enough that an impostor would have gotten away with pretending to be Luffy if it weren't for Sentomaru. Luffy is pretty feared as a son of Dragon, grandson of Garp, the person who broke into Enies Lobby and Impel Down, and survived the Marineford War. Law has not accomplished any of those, so any knowledgeable character would choose Luffy.

Even as one of the strongest men, Roger still had luck by his side, otherwise he'd have lost to Shiki. We don't know how many times luck helped him, but Garp implied luck was a big part of why Roger became a pirate king.

Would they really? All they have to do is declare and prove that they did beat the pirate king.

You did miss it, multiple times.

Still doesn't change the fact that luck saved Luffy, and that he won despite not being stronger than Crocodile.

Again, Luck helped him. It wasn't the reason he became the pirate king. Shiki only fought Roger because he had an army. An Innocent person who can't talk shit about other people cannot become a politician without luck. An Innocent person like Roger cannot become the Pirate king without luck. It's been stated multiple times that Roger was unstoppable. Having Luck doesn't mean he was weak. Also, I don't mean to say the pirate king would be undefeatable under any conditions. I'm just saying, the PK should be Undefeatable in a fair battle.

Nobody would believe them.

I'm saying If he was the pirate king he would've died after the first battle. Nobody is going to leave the PK without being 100% sure he's dead.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Luffy was without doubt stronger than Crocodile. The only reason Crocodile even stood a chance was because:

1. Luffy had never fought a Logia before.
2. And he didn't even know how to make contact with a Logia.

No one can beat an opponent whose power they can neither understand especially when it's a power that's unique and with a coumpound of special effects. Just look at how Caesar defeated Luffy+Smoker+Tashigi+Smoker+Robin+Franky together, it was all down to not understanding the capabilities of his ability much like Luffy didn't Crocodile's. if you don't know what to look out for even if you're winning, your opponent will catch you off-guard without a shadow of a doubt.

Was Luffy supposed to know what to do against a Logia without any previous experience:

1. And magically understand he's a Logia meaning his body can't be hit by conventional means?
2. And magically understand that his right hand absorbs moisture?
3. And understand he could just blend in with sand and disappear?

It's like people fault Luffy for not understanding something he's not experienced before. There's no protagonist who gets as much flack as Luffy does, it's comical because it's so unreasonable.

Only reason Luffy lost the 2nd fight against Crocodile was because he'd still not fully understood what Crocodile was capable of with his ability. Up until Crocodile disappeared, Crocodile was losing, something everyone conveniently seems to fail to notice. This is exactly the same thing that happened with Caesar too.

Crocodile even poisoned Luiffy, weakened him physically, yet he's pondering to himself how Luffy can still be that strong? A huge portion of the fight once Luffy understood Crocodile's ability was Crocodile on the ground bleeding and writhing in pain.

In fact, Crocodile barely landed a hit on Luffy during their entire fight. The only thing Crocodile had to his advantage was the fact Luffy didn't understand his ability. Once Luffy had a fair grasp, it was literally 1 sided. If anything, Crocodile became the underdog in that fight once Luffy knew as long as he had liquid, and knew that he could disappear and also knew he could absorb moisture, Crocodile lost. It was a 1-sided affair.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Luffy was without doubt stronger than Crocodile.

It is just pointless to talk with you. Luffy lost three times, well two times and last one was pretty much a draw...

Again you turn facts just the way you like it. Just look for the number of reasons you want, does not matter. Useless to discuss with you, i think we all pass.
Anyway no use to discuss, since Luffy is already the strongest. He beats everybody, and if he loses, it is because he does not understand, so does not count!

 

[M3J]

I can perfectly imagine Oden taking the opportunity to set sail with WhiteBeard to leave Wano. And switching because he wanted to help Roger. Hannibal you recognized Roger was like Luffy: Luffy never fought over anyone to come in his crew if it was not ultimately the person's decision. And WB and Roger, clearly it seems they have a relationship of rivals, not ennemies. Cannot picture them joking and drinking together if they had fought to death over Oden.

Well, Luffy did try to convince people to join his crew, like Franky and Sanji.

And clearly, as you said, Whitebeard and Roger were never enemies, nor was Roger the wall for Whitebeard, as far as we know. The interactions we see among the two groups are Whitebeard and Roger talking, Shanks and Whitebeard having a friendly fight, Shanks and Whitebeard talking, and Shanks' concern for Ace. None of these indicate in any way that Roger, Whitebeard, or their crews were enemies.

Brilliant. You sum it up perfectly in one sentence. Though not sure, some will find something to argue again. Also could be Luffy becomes the strongest in the process, but I hardly believe it and it is certainly not THE condition to be PK.
As you mentioned, Roger probably did not defeat 4 emperors. And I mean, as soons as one is out it is replaced by another one. Luffy did not need to beat the 7 Shichibukai to be done with them, and that would be endless...

It definitely isn't the condition, but it is important to be strong enough to beat most of the opponents, if not survive. The pirate king gets recognized by the world, but he/she has to earn the title. Roger did by showing himself to be the strongest, even if he wasn't. Luffy will by showing himself as the strongest, even if he isn't even in the top 5.

We don't even know if the Yonkou existed in Roger's time. All we know is that there were Marines, Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Shiki. We do know that Marines failed to capture Roger, Whitebeard and Roger were friends, Shiki lost to Roger thanks to luck, and Roger got to Big Mom's poneglyph somehow, though we don't know if they fought.

And they're not replaced that quickly though, they actually have to earn/deserve the title. Blackbeard had to earn shichibukai by capturing Ace, and he became a Yonkou after taking over Whitebeard's territories and/or asserting his dominance to the point that a Yonkou at best would get a Pyrrhic victory if they fought Blackbeard.

Luffy talks so much shit it is unbelievable. He was on the verge, to get killed by Big Mom, he cannot stand against her and the guys is just casually telling her, wait I am going to beat somebody even stronger and i will come back later. Good point Kuza and I feel Luffy still too immature, that is annoying. It is part of his character, but hell he should know his limits. Losing Ace was not enough apparently.

It's self-confidence though. Luffy thinks he can beat anyone, and he kinda proved that even though he usually had help. If Luffy didn't know his limits, he'd be taking on Big Mom, not threatening to beat her when pissed off. Luffy knows he can't win in time or at all, which is why he's opting to run away and focus on Kaidou for now.

I guess some people either know how to deduce things or don't.

You definitely don't.

Luffy was without doubt stronger than Crocodile. The only reason Crocodile even stood a chance was because:

Luffy lost two times to Crocodile, second time even though he knew Crocodile's weakness. If Crocodile wanted to finish the job, there'd be no more Luffy. He, if I recall, even had to go to sleep to recuperate after or around asking Tashigi where Crocodile went.

The only reasons Luffy won eventually were because:

Crocodile went easy on LUffy and was toying with him on their first fight
Robin saved him in the first fight
Luffy found Crocodile's weakness but still nearly died
For some reason, probably because of his devil fruit, a drop of water was enough to re-hydrate Luffy completely
Crocodile didn't bother to double-tap and make sure Luffy was defeated/dead
Robin saved Luffy again, but from the poison this time

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You definitely don't.

Lol, yet I've deduced things that happened years before others. You're wrong bud.

Luffy lost two times to Crocodile, second time even though he knew Crocodile's weakness. If Crocodile wanted to finish the job, there'd be no more Luffy. He, if I recall, even had to go to sleep to recuperate after or around asking Tashigi where Crocodile went.

The only reasons Luffy won eventually were because:

Crocodile went easy on LUffy and was toying with him on their first fight
Robin saved him in the first fight
Luffy found Crocodile's weakness but still nearly died
For some reason, probably because of his devil fruit, a drop of water was enough to re-hydrate Luffy completely
Crocodile didn't bother to double-tap and make sure Luffy was defeated/dead
Robin saved Luffy again, but from the poison this time

Go and re-read the fight, you clearly didin't read it properly.

He dominated the 2nd round and only got dehydrated by Crocodile because he didn't know Crocodile could blend in with sand.

His first time fighting a Logia.

No one can defeat an opponent whose ability they don't understand. That much is a fact.

 

[Ketimatsu]

No one can defeat an opponent whose ability they don't understand. That much is a fact.

It is irrelevant, put the reasons you want, a loss is a loss. Powers of DF are part of OP world and the fights. The only fact here is that Luffy lost again Crocodile, no matter the reasons. Is it that hard to swallow for you?

BTW: And he met Smoker before....

 

[M3J]

Lol, yet I've deduced things that happened years before others. You're wrong bud.



Go and re-read the fight, you clearly didin't read it properly.

He dominated the 2nd round and only got dehydrated by Crocodile because he didn't know Crocodile could blend in with sand.

His first time fighting a Logia.

No one can defeat an opponent whose ability they don't understand. That much is a fact.

Obvious things that most people can tell? Not impressive. Even I've done the same.

I read the fight properly. He lost the first round and was owned hard. In the second round he still lost to Crocodile because Crocodile managed to dehydrate him, saved only because of a drop of water. Luck, which is part of a pirate king's power, as Roger proved when it helped him avoid losing to Shiki.

Crocodile's first time fighting a rubber man who could go from 5% hydration to 100% just from a drop of water. Had Crocodile known about Luffy's ability with his devil fruit, then Crocodile would have made sure Luffy died rather than assume he'll die. If you want to apply Luffy's lack of knowledge about his opponents' powers as excuse for him losing, then same should apply for his opponents as well. Crocodile didn't expect Luffy to be re-hydrated when he thought there was no water around. If you cannot accept Luffy had this advantage, then that is called double standards.

Er, yes they can. You clearly have not read this manga if you think this. And as we saw during the Marineford War, Crocodile was superior to Luffy as he was taking on the likes of Doflamingo and willing to fight Akainu whereas Luffy was forced to fight AKainu and couldn't do anything.

And again, Roger proves that luck can play a huge part in victory. We saw it with Shiki, and Garp has even said it himself. This is a clear-cut fact, and if you can't accept it, then I can't help you or your double standards just to make Luffy look better.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I read the fight properly. He lost the first round and was owned hard. In the second round he still lost to Crocodile because Crocodile managed to dehydrate him, saved only because of a drop of water. Luck, which is part of a pirate king's power, as Roger proved when it helped him avoid losing to Shiki.

Wrong.

You can't fight an opponent whose ability you do not understand. You can't anticipate moves if you don't understand your opponent's abilities. Even Kizaru got hit by Apoo simply because he didn't understand how his abilities functioned.
You conveniently forget what happens between Caesar and the SHs, he only defeated them because they didn't understand his ability.
Hell, maybe you didn't even read Dressrosa. Luffy and Law were about to be turned into toys, why? because they didn't know Sugar was a DF user nor understood her ability. Luffy attacked Trebol with Haki and asked why his attack failed? You can't fight an opponent if you're not clear as to the capabilities of their ability, you're automatically at a disadvantage. You're clearly ignorant in regards to battle dynamics.

His first fight against a Logia. It's plain asinine to expect Luffy to comprehend an ability class he's never faced off against when he's lived on some meagre Island in East blue where not much happens.

Crocodile's first time fighting a rubber man

Irrelevant, Luffy's ability doesn't make him different to any normal person. All he can do is stretch, it doesn't change Crocodile's tactics. All he has to do is touch and dehydrate him. Crocodile's powers are far more complex.

You can't compare a Logia's power to a Parameica power that really has no special effects, it's not like Luffy's powers are similar to Law's.

If you want to apply Luffy's lack of knowledge about his opponents' powers as excuse for him losing, then same should apply for his opponents as well.

Nonsensical. Luffy's powers are nothing special or complex. All it does is stretch. What's there to figure out? It's not rocket science.

Crocodile's powers on the other hand, Luffy has never faced:
You can't just attack like you'd attack a normal person, there are prerequisites to landing a succeessful attack.

1. He can fly.
2. He can blend in with the sand.
3. He can disintegrate and appear out of no where.
4. He can dehydrate his opponent.

Luffy wouldn't know these things without being told, yet, he figured all of this out in just 2 battles and in the 3rd, defeated him which is a feat.

You're so absurdly biased you forget that up until he surprised Luffy being that Luffy didn't know Crocodile could blend in with the sand, he was thrashing Crocodile left right and centre. Crocodile didn't even land an attack until Luffy lost sight of him.

Only reason Luffy lost the 2nd fight was because he didn't know Crocodile could disappear, hell, Crocodile was in the desert, he had the advantage.

Crocodile was superior to Luffy as he was taking on the likes of Doflamingo

Lol, no, that's called bravado. He got his neck sliced off. Had Joker decided to use Haki, Crocodile would be dead. Hell, Crocodile attempted to take on Whitebeard and got stopped by Luffy, yet he was superior to Luffy? That's a mediocre assessment. Sand isn't really affected by Magma and he only attacked Akainu while he was focused.

Taking on a character is not the same thing as being equal to that character, that's absurd, lol. Hell, Luffy took on the 3 Admirals, does that mean he was a match for them? No.

Roger proves that luck can play a huge part in victory.

Again, irrelevant, luck only goes so far. Strength is a prerequisite, otherwise, Rayleigh wouldn't have trained him. Something you're seemingly struggling to grasp. What the Pirate King has is not just luck, but superior strength to complement it, that's what you don't seem to comprehend.

 

[Ketimatsu]

You conveniently forget what happens between Caesar and the SHs, he only defeated them because they didn't understand his ability

Still irrelevant, Luffy indeed lost against Caesar being careless.

Irrelevant, Luffy's ability doesn't make him different to any normal person

Ask Enel what he thinks about that

You can't fight an opponent whose ability you do not understand. You can't anticipate moves if you don't understand your opponent's abilities. Even Kizaru got hit by Apoo simply because he didn't understand how his abilities functioned.

Kizaru had no clue about Hawkins, he just trashed him...

All this is non-sense, say Luffy lost to Crocodile because of A,B,C or X,Y,Z, he just lost, period.

 

[SirJack]

What if only Luffy could become Pirate King...for some other reason?
What if Whitebeard knew he COULDN'T sit on that throne, because even as the ruler of the seas he wasn't "The man Roger was waiting for"... Yet, he wanted to make Ace the next PK.

Maybe only someone from the D Clan can achieve One Piece?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

What if only Luffy could become Pirate King...for some other reason?
What if Whitebeard knew he COULDN'T sit on that throne, because even as the ruler of the seas he wasn't "The man Roger was waiting for"... Yet, he wanted to make Ace the next PK.

Maybe only someone from the D Clan can achieve One Piece?

More or less. Whitebeard could have become Pirate King, but it seems carrying out the Will of D. has to be done by a descendant of the D. clan which is why Whitebeard tried to make Ace Pirate King as did Shanks who tried to motivate Luffy into becoming Pirate King by handing over Roger's hat to him.

Joyboy wrote to the people of Fishman Island in the Ancient Language which I believe ie the language of the D. and stated that someone will come in his stead to fulfil his promise, and that person is Luffy.

I've written a bit about this on here: https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/will-of-d-explained.3002960/

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 16, 2017 ---

There has always been the idea that Pirate King is a title issued by people.

One thing that we do indeed know for sure is, getting to Raftel which is synonymous with acquiring One Piece is what earns one the title Pirate King.

The problem is the general public in the OP world do not know what One Piece is, therefore, how can they understand the significance of reaching Raftel, and therefore, conclude that Roger was Pirate King? All people would know concerning Roger are the people he's defeated which would be the Emperors of his era, but even Whitebeard was considered the strongest, yet not branded the title Pirate King.

The only people who know the significance of reaching Raftel are the Emperors themselves.

Before I go any further, it's imperative to acknowledge that the only people who knew anything about the Poneglyphs which lead to Raftel and ultimately One Piece are the Pirates who journeyed to the end of the Log Pose were all the people who'd understand the significance of reaching Raftel.

Spoiler

If these Pirates in the know or possessed Road Poneglyphs were all defeated and then had their Road Poneglyph information stolen by Roger were aware that Roger had done this to everyone in possession of Road Poneglyphs. They'd know or have deduced that Roger had acquired the location to Raftel and therefore have been the only valid people able to nominate Roger Pirate King.

So, it'd be a combination of the general people knowing Roger had defeated the strongest pirates of his era and the Pirates who knew the significance of these defeats leading to Raftel to acquire the One Piece being the ones who ultimately branded him the Pirate King, and as a result, led to the title being perpetuated through out the world.

General people can't have been the ones to title Roger the Pirate King since they do not know what One Piece or Raftel is, or what it takes to acquire it. The only exception would be if being Pirate King simply means defeating all Emperors and proving to be the strongest, but Whitebeard was the strongest, yet not recognised as Pirate King either by the general public and more importantly, the Pirates.

 

[M3J]

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-818-page-4.html
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-818-page-8.html

Luffy's reaction implies one does not need to beat the Yonkou to become the pirate king. Instead of arguing, he just says "harumph." Getting to Raftel or the end is what makes one the pirate king, it does not include fighting the Yonkou or the Marines. The chapter even implied that Roger may not have fought Kaidou or Big Mom, though I'm not saying he didn't.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It is necessary. There's a reason Roger was known as the strongest.

 

[Freid]

Pretty obvious Luffy won't beat all the current Yonkou. Shanks foreshadowed a fight with Blackbeard which will likely end with him losing since BB's Luffy's main rival and Shanks fighting Luffy was never realistic considering their relationship, so it's likely he just won't be in the position to fight Luffy at all. Blackbeard seems like the only Yonkou who's destined to lose to Luffy alone.

It's also not unusual in manga that the main character surpasses his initial goal. So If beating all the Yonkou is what is thought to be the requirement to be Yonkou, Luffy might go a step further. Beating BB and toppling the more powerful WG would earn Luffy a bigger reputation than Pirate King and there's been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest that Luffy's predestined to do much more than 'HeRp DeRp beating all da strong gais'.

 

[Shasha23]

It is just pointless to talk with you. Luffy lost three times, well two times and last one was pretty much a draw...

Again you turn facts just the way you like it. Just look for the number of reasons you want, does not matter. Useless to discuss with you, i think we all pass.
Anyway no use to discuss, since Luffy is already the strongest. He beats everybody, and if he loses, it is because he does not understand, so does not count!

The fact he was trying to make is that Luffy physically was stronger than Crocodile, the only reason he struggled was because he couldn't hit him, but once he understood that and Crocodile started fighting him head on like an idiot he lost.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Pretty obvious Luffy won't beat all the current Yonkou. Shanks foreshadowed a fight with Blackbeard which will likely end with him losing since BB's Luffy's main rival and Shanks fighting Luffy was never realistic considering their relationship, so it's likely he just won't be in the position to fight Luffy at all. Blackbeard seems like the only Yonkou who's destined to lose to Luffy alone.

It's also not unusual in manga that the main character surpasses his initial goal. So If beating all the Yonkou is what is thought to be the requirement to be Yonkou, Luffy might go a step further. Beating BB and toppling the more powerful WG would earn Luffy a bigger reputation than Pirate King and there's been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest that Luffy's predestined to do much more than 'HeRp DeRp beating all da strong gais'.

He will defeat them, at least his crew would be pivotal in their downfall. That much isn't up for dispute. The Manga is meant to glorify Luffy and he's going to surpass all expectations.

Shanks and Luffy fighting doesn't need to be within the same context as fighting the others, would likely be to prove how strong he is like a spar. I'm sure it's akin to Mihawk and Shanks fighting to prove who was the strongest Swordsman. Doesn't have to be to death, it's just to prove a point.

There is no bigger achievement than becoming Pirate King, toppling the WG would just be the sequel to what comes after. Without knowledge of the Void Century, Luffy has no reason to topple the WG at this point. There are various reasons why Roger couldn't carry on from finding One Piece such as:

• Shirahoshi (Poseidon) not being alive while he was, so there was no one capable of moving Noah and Fishman Island to the surface. She's around when Luffy is, so he will be able to fulfil what Roger couldn't and not only in regard to Fishman, but to all races. It's a revolution in essence. Everything has been set for Luffy, he's after-all the destined one as both Whitebeard, Queen Otohime and Shanks have implied.

been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest that Luffy's predestined to do much more than 'HeRp DeRp beating all da strong gais'.

Oh wow, I thought this was obvious. Defeating the Yonko is absolutely necessary to become Pirate King, that's to do with power. While one can try to mock, it's unfortunately going to happen and is what sets the foundation for what will transpire.

 

[M3J]

There is no reason at all. If Roger did fight and beat Big Mom and Kaidou, then why hasn't that been mentioned yet? Why not take their poneglyphs as well? And if beating the Yonkou was necessary, why didn't Luffy argue that when Usopp said Luffy could become the pirate king without confronting a Yonkou?

Obviously he's going to have to as Kaidou's after him, Big Mom's after him, he has a score to settle with Blackbeard, and he wants to fight Shanks, and because he plans on fighting them anyway. However, the manga has pretty much said that to become the pirate king, one would have to reach Raftel.

If power was all that's needed, then Whitebeard would have become the pirate king as he was known as the most powerful man. Instead, he chose not to go to Raftel, and although he's hyped as the most powerful man, he's never been called the pirate king. Incidentally, Whitebeard's flashbacks indicate he never cared to get to Raftel or become the pirate king, he cared more about having a large crew to call a family. And despite Kaidou's hype, he's not the pirate king either.

 

[Core D. Roy]

There is no reason at all. If Roger did fight and beat Big Mom and Kaidou, then why hasn't that been mentioned yet? Why not take their poneglyphs as well? And if beating the Yonkou was necessary, why didn't Luffy argue that when Usopp said Luffy could become the pirate king without confronting a Yonkou?

Obviously he's going to have to as Kaidou's after him, Big Mom's after him, he has a score to settle with Blackbeard, and he wants to fight Shanks, and because he plans on fighting them anyway. However, the manga has pretty much said that to become the pirate king, one would have to reach Raftel.

If power was all that's needed, then Whitebeard would have become the pirate king as he was known as the most powerful man. Instead, he chose not to go to Raftel, and although he's hyped as the most powerful man, he's never been called the pirate king. Incidentally, Whitebeard's flashbacks indicate he never cared to get to Raftel or become the pirate king, he cared more about having a large crew to call a family. And despite Kaidou's hype, he's not the pirate king either.

Given Oda's style, it's equally possible that 'defeating all the yonkou/being the strongest' and 'finding Raftel and claiming the Onepiece' are and aren't mutually exclusive. They could be equivalent, they could not be. I err on the latter but I get why people are so adamant about the former.

I'd like to believe the series won't be solved with just punches, but I do look forward to more punching nobles. I'd really rather the yonkou all have novel defeats. BM with making food/sweets (Sanji spotlight stolen by Nami/Brook), Kaidou with consuming booze (incoming Nami steal for MVP against Zoro AGAIN), Shanks with partying (holy shit what a throwdown given every post-arc banquet we get for the SHs), and Blackbeard?

Taste. The original wedge between him and Luffy. Who is right about what is better; I foresee BB being the legendary New World Davy Back fight I've always fantasized about. These are all things the Strawhats know better than anyone. End of series? BB wants to take the SH's flag in a New World Davy Back fight. *swoon*

 

[M3J]

I'm 90% sure they're not mutually exclusive, but it seems Luffy's reason for being the pirate king and beating the Yonkou would be, as they'd be obstacles to his freedom.

what do you mean novel defeats?

 

[Freid]

Given Oda's style, it's equally possible that 'defeating all the yonkou/being the strongest' and 'finding Raftel and claiming the Onepiece' are and aren't mutually exclusive. They could be equivalent, they could not be. I err on the latter but I get why people are so adamant about the former.

I think they're equivalent in the sense that you can't realistically find Raftel without being pretty damn strong since it's supposed to be the last island in the Grand Line and everyone's looking for it. So I'm sure Luffy will be the strongest but not by climbing a ladder of emperors. I'm thinking there won't even be any emperors soon and the New World would simply be a massive battle royale.