Games Mafia Game 58 - Umineko: How to play 13 - END GAME

[Marmalade]

I thought that we had already decided who to lynch today.
Is there a reason for keeping Van alive?
Am I missing something guys?

Ah I agree with that actually. Lynching him. I just wanted to be sure of it Any information is welcome for me.

 

[Belserion]

Oh I somehow missed this post as I was posting my own ones. Fair enough, though I've looked back on the posts. You tried making a case against Empty that day, here. Right inbetween of my argument with niichan. And then you posted this soon after. Almost all mafias we killed so far had an interesting tendency to vote for xnut, who you also call one of your suspects along with Empty in that post. Not accusing you, but I find it strange is all.

No offense but you and niichan spent most of the day back and forth with your walls of arguments. Any post anyone made would have come in between you two. As for accusing empty, in my eyes she was suspicious. Turns out she was townie so sadly I was wrong, not that it matters because I still votekilled niichan. As for the second post, you questioned me and I answered. You were making it seem like my entire post was in reference to Spriggan so I showed you how it wasn't.

"Almost all mafias we killed so far...." Exactly. All mafias WE killed. WE. I voted both Spriggan and niichan. In Spriggan's case I was the first to votekill him. I have no control over who others suspect. In xnut's case I suspect him because of his quick defense of a known Mafia member. That would be suspicious to anyone.

 

[Zasz]

Ah I agree with that actually. Lynching him. I just wanted to be sure of it Any information is welcome for me.

Okay, but I want to know WHYW the others are suddenly having doubts.

 

[Vandred]

Actually, when niichan was going to get lynched yesterday I thought I would see a mafia lover revealed, that would have explained Vandred's intentions of keeping him alive a lot better. But since there was no lover stuff I am perplexed with the case.

@Vandred , why try so hard to save niichan?? That point of proving sanities on him had "some" actual logic but still very poor. I think dets investigating other targets would have gotten to the same place and without that much trouble of keeping a damn mafia alive. It would have even provided more names to the detectives looking towards D4. There was simply no real advantage of doing what you were asking for.

The fact that niichan was mafia boss doesnt help you either, it does seem like you knew niichan's role and just wanted to bait dets into a weird play.

And STILL, i cannot vote you yet. Its just impossible that you were in any way allied with niichan since you and Belserion were the ones who created the wagon on Spriggan. If you were in the same mafia as spriggan and niichan you would never have done that.

Which the other trend of thought would be to believe you are from a second mafia, I dont get how would you get advantage of protecting niichan if he was from another party. It just doesnt make sense and doesnt suit you. What the hell did you have in mind?

Seriously I dont get it, your behaviour fits perfectly with the one of a fellow mafia of niichan's but logic tells you cant be that. A second mafia wouldnt protect such a juicy lynch target like niichan either, just what are you thinking?!

I want to believe you are townie that just got in a terrible play, I really do, but wtf man...

I have some thoughts on the DN matter I want to discuss later.

Was I trying that hard to "save" him? Or was my idea of actually exploiting the fact that he had a target we were all set on lynching in order to bring more benefit to the town blown way out of proportion by Gry and anyone who trusted him as something that "must clearly be a mafia play", even though anybody is still to make any sense of it? Just think for a second and you'll realize that Gry is going out of his way, even bringing up the presence of my name in a Note, to get me killed today...

 

[xnut]

I'm confused when was he "confirmed mafia" I refused to hop on a day one train who are you buddy

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

I don't know what to say to not make it too obvious give me a minute ​

 

[Marmalade]

Okay, but I want to know WHYW the others are suddenly having doubts.

Yeah, understandable. Not many people have actually voted for him afterall, but there is still time to do so.

For me - intuition/bad feeling about it - isn't going to cut it. I want concrete evidence (I understand things like "he defended niichan" look suspicious. But a person could have a lot of reasons for doing that, being part of a mafiagroup is only an option in that case). No not defending him right now, I just want him to talk on the matter a bit more, as a check.

But even if he says "I'm this or that" the question remains: Do we believe that right? Anyone could be saying anything right now.

 

[Elusia]

Makes me wonder... what exactly do those pink lines mean?
If purple lines are the truth, in what way do pink (and blue for that matter) differ? They're all (partial) truths, in one way or another right?

"Want me to say that in pink" - Almost makes it sound like it's more definite, perhaps in a bad way. I'm getting a negative vibe from this, thats all I know for sure.


----------------


Okay, so something different right now regarding people I find suspicious, people I have a weird feeling about.
I'm currently leaning towards voting for @Vandred - Nothing personal ofcourse. Everything said yesterday and today makes me feel like something is off. . The feeling isn't as convincing as the one I had with Niichan, and I do really want to make the right vote before the end of this day. Can't base everything off intuition. That's why I do want to give you a chance to convince me - and perhaps others as well - that you aren't the one we should be killing right now.
What would be our benefit if you live to see tomorrow, or perhaps the night phase.

I do have some other players I am not trusting at all, not because of what they say, but the manner things are said.

Saying "I'm an innocent townie" isn't going to cut it for me, though

To me, it sounds like hesitation... Like they were thinking twice before saying what that they need to say before saying the "truth." I can assume that even though every truth is different, they are really important and they need to be careful about it. Also, by the last comments, I'm sort of abandoning my own belief about the two different truths xD

Anyways, It's getting really late here (almost 1 am) but I think I can able to vote. Just need to double-check.

 

[syx]

@GrySun
just came back from work and have some stuff to do. Didn't read all the posts after the last night. What exactly do you want to know?

This is what I can say about me:

• I'm a townie, which I stated via the Red Truth (yes, that counts)
• I don't like my role at all, have difficulties to utilize my role to its full potential
  
• I gave subtle hints about my role two times in my previous posts, but it's probably not easy to deduce as much

 

[xnut]

My role has been discussed and is not what I was last game, but close.

 

[desin24]

That's pretty subjective and doesn't help that much. Is it active or passive? Does it have any relation your character?

I thought that we had already decided who to lynch today.
Is there a reason for keeping Van alive?
Am I missing something guys?

Lynching Vand would end the day and we lose the time to discuss night actions, further suspicions and who Gry will lose his two death notes on.

With three deaths in our hands at the moment and the names in the death notes it might be best if people hinted more or outright came out with the roles. The remaining Detective ( if there even is any could confirm his sanity through the use of the death notes).

How about the priorities of night actions? Will a coin toss decide whether Gry does his two kills or gets killed by mafia first. We need the docs to protect him even if it's linked to the threat of an insane doc killing him. Same with a mafia prostitute blocking Gry. Can she block both death notes from being used? Does the block also mean that the notes stay with him and he gets the penalty votes?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

the first line is a rest from an earlier comment that has become irrelevant since then, sorry

 

[Arjuna]

I will go to sleep soon so

Vote Kill Vandred

Your defence of niichan is suspicious enough

 

[xnut]

Wait what, saying whether it wasn't passive or active wasn't enough earlier. and I've said just bout as much as anyone else has I thought it was pretty given I didn't literally spell it out o you

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

Who am I kidding, it's votekill vandred anyway

 

[Vandred]

Oh look, another massive bandwagon incoming. This game is turning into every second mafia's wet dream.

Lynching Vand would end the day and we lose the time to discuss night actions, further suspicions and who Gry will lose his two death notes on.

With three deaths in our hands at the moment and the names in the death notes it might be best if people hinted more or outright came out with the roles. The remaining Detective ( if there even is any could confirm his sanity through the use of the death notes).

How about the priorities of night actions? Will a coin toss decide whether Gry does his two kills or gets killed by mafia first. We need the docs to protect him even if it's linked to the threat of an insane doc killing him. Same with a mafia prostitute blocking Gry. Can she block both death notes from being used? Does the block also mean that the notes stay with him and he gets the penalty votes?

The holder getting blocked means he doesn't kill anybody, gets no penalties, and still passes on the Notes. That's all explained in the rules.

I assume a coin toss would decide priorities like with any conflicting kill, yeah. And it's still amazing how everyone is trusting Gry to be honest about having two Notes and using them for the good of the town... Gry's just asking to be investigated tonight so he can say he came up guilty because of the Notes. Doesn't that smell much more of a mafia play than my "defense"?

 

[Elusia]

Woops, I ended up falling alseep. I guess I'm really tired (currently 2 am and I'm gonna sleep after this) xD

Anyways, votekill Vandred
I really can't be patient now since that I haven't been convinced much by his posts....

 

[xnut]

Hmmm I did not see that friend I was just placing you from yesterday

 

[GrySun]

I think one would need to be blind to miss that Zimb is hinting Prostitute and Bel is a Det...

I disagree. Zimb's post can allude to many other roles. I did notice Bel's hints may be of a useless Det who's only getting innocent/guilty results(that's her crisis), but mafia just love to claim those roles so I'm wary. And it could be other stuff as well.

It's not like I don't see what you're doing here, but sure. I just think there's little point in doing it now, if we're going to get an additional chapter before the day is over like yesterday, and after a bunch of people have already analyzed what can be deduced from what we have.

What I'm doing? Now that I got both Death Notes and openly revealed all the Notes had is the best time to look into the chapters and text. What's wrong Vand, if you're really a townie you'd still put your hopes in us winning and finding the last mafias. Instead you make it sound like you're losing the game. We lost a lot of strong roles but we're still easily in this game.

Except you don't actually know that unless you killed her yourself. Her name in one of the Notes doesn't mean it was a townie who tried to kill her, just like my name being there doesn't mean it was a townie who targeted me. Or that anything of what you claim is true, despite how much everyone seems to blindly trust you.

She was killed by a Death Note, despite being still a prime suspect for us to lynch in the upcoming days. Hence why her killer has to be a townie who wanted to reveal what she was earlier than lynching her.
You think I'd be making this all up? You do know I will have to give away both notes this night after killing. I made this whole Note business public just so the Note is now a townie weapon. The people who end up with the Notes will see the same list of names I've seen, and by keeping it an open public thing(which mind you, you were against doing that when I asked how strategically sound it was yesterday) we can fully control both our kills with the Note, the one who receives the Note and even confirm in each step that nobody previously lied.

That just makes it equally extremely surprising that "my mafia" would manage to pinpoint exactly the one player who targeted me with a Note, in your scenario...

You saw it too didn't you? Zasz's posts last day were heavily hinting towards him having the Note. I can go fetch you his post, but he answered niichan "the IF of if a townie has the note may not be as unlikely as you think". Maybe I'm wrong but I understood it as him having the Note, your mafia probably did too so you blocked him with Escort.

Oh I agree, that bandwagon is pretty telling. But it speaks more about you than me. You're the one who's misleading townies with arguments that just have no ground, and I wish they realized that the more they all follow you, the easier they make it for your mafia buddies to blend in with them. You're the one who thinks they're all fools... But yeah, I have faith in them. They'll figure you out sooner or later. Just as I have.

How am I misleading anyone??? As much as niichan fought against it, he messed up and the "no ground" I had yesterday was enough for me to get him lynched. And look there, he's a mafia. Same situation with you, I don't have a lot going for you but it's definitely a lot more than with any other player in the game. Even after asking around for role hints and opinions today. Name me a person who is a better lynch today than you. But no, instead you're trying to frame me of all people as being mafia now.
And the other players are no fools, we found that out from how decisively niichan was lynched, and by how decisively you're probably gonna get lynched. You and niichan both underestimated everyone and that's your downfall.

No, no, the version where I thrown every member of my mafia under the bus makes much more sense. Especially the part where I first happily sacrifice the invaluable Mafia Det without a second thought and then do my damnedest to delay the death of the Mafia Boss

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees you're so obviously reaching...

Why "every" mafia now? Only Spriggan was killed thanks to you. Had you not jumped to niichan's defense I would never have a reason to question you, but here we are now. I don't know why you tried keeping niichan alive one more day, but I'll be looking forward to you telling me after the game is over.

That's nonsense, and you know it. The town would never had let him go no matter what had happened, and neither would you.

If I hadn't survived the night but niichan did, he would probably be able to fool people. Whip up some good role, get everyone onto Empty. Whether it would've succeeded I don't know, after all greg would still have been there. But not gonna risk that.

Nope, I "mostly went" for xnut, I barely mentioned Empty as a better target to pressure - not to lynch, nor did I ever say we should ignore niichan altogether. I clearly said that I didn't think pressuring him would make him betray any useful info, which in fact didn't happen. Not that he would have needed to when almost the whole town kept voting for him.

And don't act as if Empty wasn't one of the most suspected people yesterday, by yourself too.

True I suspected her, she did do the same thing Spriggan did but without revealing as mafia basically. I expected she'd be one of the second mafia so I openly said yesterday "kill either Empty or Van via the Death Note". But going Empty instead of going niichan is the distinguishing point.

Oh yeah, Dets with a confirmed sanity is such a bad thing. Much better to have them rely purely on luck while wasting night after night. For non-townies, it surely is.

And wasn't it you who first proposed Dets checking their sanity on a confirmed townie should have been their utmost priority in the DBZ game? Ah, well, I guess that doesn't count. You were townie that game

Stop making it sound that it confirms their sanity. It does not. If they had innocent on niichan, they would know to be either sane or naive, if they got guilty they would know to be either insane or paranoid. It's still useless without getting a seperate result, and they wouldn't be able to compare a result from a Boss to a result from a later guaranteed townie. Only if niichan had another role would it actually have been worth it somewhat.

Nice attempt at lying. In the DBZ game we lynched our Det in day 1, killed the second det in Day 2 and the last det was hostkilled. Pretty sure I said no such thing. If you mean my text from the TG game, I never said to target confirmed townies. I just gave general recommendations to how to play the role, saying things like "only reveal your results once you have both a sane and insane result". Who is reaching for what here exactly?


I must say Vand, you're proving to be more entertaining than niichan was. Though his mistake was worse than yours, and yours could still be a really awful townplay. In case you really die as townie I will write you a huge apology later, but with these posts you're giving me of incriminating me for seeing through your scheme I heavily doubt you're not one of them.

Just reveal your role already, there may still be saving for you depending on what you are.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

Actually, when niichan was going to get lynched yesterday I thought I would see a mafia lover revealed, that would have explained Vandred's intentions of keeping him alive a lot better. But since there was no lover stuff I am perplexed with the case.

@Vandred , why try so hard to save niichan?? That point of proving sanities on him had "some" actual logic but still very poor. I think dets investigating other targets would have gotten to the same place and without that much trouble of keeping a damn mafia alive. It would have even provided more names to the detectives looking towards D4. There was simply no real advantage of doing what you were asking for.

The fact that niichan was mafia boss doesnt help you either, it does seem like you knew niichan's role and just wanted to bait dets into a weird play.

And STILL, i cannot vote you yet. Its just impossible that you were in any way allied with niichan since you and Belserion were the ones who created the wagon on Spriggan. If you were in the same mafia as spriggan and niichan you would never have done that.

Which the other trend of thought would be to believe you are from a second mafia, I dont get how would you get advantage of protecting niichan if he was from another party. It just doesnt make sense and doesnt suit you. What the hell did you have in mind?

Seriously I dont get it, your behaviour fits perfectly with the one of a fellow mafia of niichan's but logic tells you cant be that. A second mafia wouldnt protect such a juicy lynch target like niichan either, just what are you thinking?!

I want to believe you are townie that just got in a terrible play, I really do, but wtf man...

I have some thoughts on the DN matter I want to discuss later.

This post right here @Vandred sums up our whole textwall conversation. Your behavior is of a mafia, but it's such a bad play you found yourself in. I really want to know how this all happened, looking forward to post-game or the dead people pad(I assume there is one?)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017 ---

Gry's just asking to be investigated tonight so he can say he came up guilty because of the Notes. Doesn't that smell much more of a mafia play than my "defense"?

Can you quote where Gry is asking to be investigated? I even wrote it in my rule summary post, people with the Note show as non-Townies. Any detective(if we still have any) wouldn't waste their investigation like that. Instead go on any other target he hasn't investigated yet, and I may just kill that person tonight.

To be honest I'm even considering "testing" Arjuna's Bulletproof by killing him and seeing if he survives it. A lot of options and a bigger burden than I'd want, since I never had any night kills prior.

 

[desin24]

Oh look, another massive bandwagon incoming. This game is turning into every second mafia's wet dream.


The holder getting blocked means he doesn't kill anybody, gets no penalties, and still passes on the Notes. That's all explained in the rules.

I assume a coin toss would decide priorities like with any conflicting kill, yeah. And it's still amazing how everyone is trusting Gry to be honest about having two Notes and using them for the good of the town... Gry's just asking to be investigated tonight so he can say he came up guilty because of the Notes. Doesn't that smell much more of a mafia play than my "defense"?

I thought about him being a mafia as well. He suggested lynching him to get rid of the death notes and it would be an interesting play. He is always a pretty trustworthy player and usually one of the most acive townies as well. Plus his walls of text seem genuine and convincing

It is another bandwagon but the last two got us two mafia. Regardless, I'm not that sure about voting for you. One reason being last night, which is why I'd prefer people talking about themselves more. If Gry is town then we should reveal as much as possible actually. I'd contemplate role reveals to be honest just to rise the chances of keeping the death notes in townies hands and coordinating everything from here on. In every game there is a point where everyone gives up their role and hints from past days are the best way to find inconsistencies.

Dets should still target Gry for sanity check because we know for sure how he will appear, no matter if he is townie or not.

You are right about the rules, I should keep them open in a tab.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

I thought about him being a mafia as well. He suggested lynching him to get rid of the death notes and it would be an interesting play. He is always a pretty trustworthy player and usually one of the most acive townies as well. Plus his walls of text seem genuine and convincing

It is another bandwagon but the last two got us two mafia. Regardless, I'm not that sure about voting for you. One reason being last night, which is why I'd prefer people talking about themselves more. If Gry is town then we should reveal as much as possible actually. I'd contemplate role reveals to be honest just to rise the chances of keeping the death notes in townies hands and coordinating everything from here on. In every game there is a point where everyone gives up their role and hints from past days are the best way to find inconsistencies.

Dets should still target Gry for sanity check because we know for sure how he will appear, no matter if he is townie or not.

You are right about the rules, I should keep them open in a tab.

I guess I misunderstood the rule. I thought that the death note holder would still be seen through the lens of someone's sanity and thus be used to check sanity

 

[syx]

Gosh, my head is spinning like hell... too much info...

Isn't it possible for someone to host a MG for beginners?

!votekill Vandred

I won't be able to sleep well without knowing the true color of Van.

 

[Lady pompom]

First of all, Votekill Vandred.
To fix a previous mistake I made.

Also, for anyone interested:

Title

xnut- claims active role. Says it's similar to his role on his previousgame.
Belserion –active role, it will be better when she overcome a “crisis” (?)
Lambu- Says their role is active and has appeared in one of the games they have played, but isn't useful at the moment
MarmaladeSky- passive, isn’t unhappy about it.
Zimbardo- It'd be silly to say I've never had it before, as I have never played this game with you guys before, but I have never played a Mafia game with this class before (though that could be said for 90% of the classes here).
Also, this role is designed for someone who has great experience in this game, I feel.
I really need to be able to predict what classes people have, to be useful. <- so any hints on how to read different classes would be nice [am looking at you GrySun; as you are one of the few people I may have a mild clue to], I mean outside of the hints people give...
Elusia - I'm really neutral about my role. I don't hate it but I don't like it either. So I'll just roll with it.
Gnut- Says he has 'old role which he hadn't had before', but not Mafia
Gry- States he is likely being memed by hosts with this role and will likely kill himself with it sooner or later. Says he holds two notes atm.
WYIS – I might as well elaborate on my role a little. It's passive in the sense that I don't actively target other players. Can affect the others permanently under the right circumstances.
Emptysoul- townie
Vandread - Says their role is similar to the insane doctor, but a lot less useful
Desin24- says their role is a new one to them – not bulletproof, plain townie, Mafia detective, hider, doctor or Mafia escort
Arjuna –claims bulletproof.
Gryffindor – says his role is useless at the moment.

@Vandred are you implying your role is naive?

I trust Lambu for now. As for the hints people gave, I think there is a bar keeper, a witch (cause it's a witches game, mys sister insisted there should be one), and at least two or more other blocking roles due to the number of death notes, and for the same reason (the 2 DNs)I suppose there's only one big mafia since two mafias would iply too many deaths at once. I believe Gry for now, his revelation about holding two notes and the fact that Vandred didn't die makes a lot of sense if I take into consideraction my latest actions, but still not sure whether Gry is or not a simple townie. I'd like we all pondered more about this before the night comes.

By the way, I have privileged information about Vand's not dying and I think it's related to my mistake (no, I'm not a doc neither a mafia buddy). I'm also not sure if I made a mistake or not on D1 too (sorry if I did @zimbardo ). Also, I need to tell you all that there's more than two death notes, cause when this day phase started I also received a death note. (yes, that's why we ave lots of blocking roles! I wouldn't doubt that there is a fourth DN, if it's possible)

Since Gry called D and O, mine would be W, cause the names written on it are:
1.WithYouInSpirit
2-Kato756

WYIS was protected by someone or the person who wrote the name was blocked. And Kato died last night probably due to the death note (or someone else targeted him if the Dn was blocked, which is unlikely). I believe who killed him was mafia (or a townied that found his playsttyle suspect, but 'm pending to the mafia option), and I'm also not sure why someone would entrust the DN to me, but I'd like we decided the target to the kill instead of focusing solely on Vand too.

 

[GrySun]

Isn't it possible for someone to host a MG for beginners?

Huh... That's actually a pretty interesting thought. There were talks of a hydra mafia game before(basically 2 players play on 1 account as 1 player with 1 role), but making a simple game again and maybe only letting beginners play is also interesting, if there's enough(at least 8) people that want to play it I'd host it.