Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[tirakai]

Twin Star had a bunch of stuff either cut out, rearranged, or rewritten slightly to make the characters dumber/angrier.

 

[Franz]

Guys, there is still a fundamental concept: no matter the quality of the product, but how much it affects the popularity of the manga.


Certainly BHA was lucky to be entrusted to Bones, but the study that drives the product does not count, advertising counts.

Now how many people have approached Naruto, Bleach or One Piece because of the anime? So many, myself, does it matter that the soul often does not live up to it?

The souls of Black Cover, regardless of quality, will attract a lot of people to the manga and already see the results on the sales side. Not that the Pierrot is bad, so many episodes of Beach and Naruto were perfectly animated.

This counts at the end, understand?

Even if the anime is not faithful manga, what do you care? As long as it is spoken and attracts people .....

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

Black clover is being so faithfully adapted it has a ton of fillers and useless padding in the first cour. .

At the moment no Black Clover filler was useless or an end in itself, and they mainly served to make the various characters better known.

Which is good, since they can also deepen and contribute to the popularity of characters like Yuno, who despite being the protéonista in the manga appears very little .....

 

[ShenGao]

Guys, there is still a fundamental concept: no matter the quality of the product, but how much it affects the popularity of the manga.


Certainly BHA was lucky to be entrusted to Bones, but the study that drives the product does not count, advertising counts.

Now how many people have approached Naruto, Bleach or One Piece because of the anime? So many, myself, does it matter that the soul often does not live up to it?

The souls of Black Cover, regardless of quality, will attract a lot of people to the manga and already see the results on the sales side. Not that the Pierrot is bad, so many episodes of Beach and Naruto were perfectly animated.

This counts at the end, understand?

Even if the anime is not faithful manga, what do you care? As long as it is spoken and attracts people .....

So far the anime didn't boost the sales in any way.

69741 (3)│128256│149552│------│------┃*,149,552 (*17)┃2017/08｜ブラッククローバー 12
100937 (5)│144506│165512│180954│194163┃*,194,163 (*33)┃2017/10｜ブラッククローバー 13
140431 (7)│------│------│------│------┃*,140,431 (**7)┃2017/12｜ブラッククローバー 14

Volume 12 sold 69.741 units in 3 days. Volume 13 sold 100.937 units in 5 days. Volume 14 sold 140.431 units in 7 days.
69.741 / 3 = 23.247 units per day
100.937 / 5 = 20.187,4 units per day
140.431 / 7 = 20.061, 5 units per day
It's been 11 episodes, almost 1 cour and there is no boost for the first week sales.

 

[TM2]

It would honestly help if you would at least define what you mean by the "soul".

Also just appearing on screen is no guarantee of characterization.

Hell, if anything, the filler could be argued that they actually take away characterization.

 

[cody]

Twin Star had a bunch of stuff either cut out, rearranged, or rewritten slightly to make the characters dumber.

What were they thinking, honestly, 50 episodes for a monthly manga that didn't even have 30 chapters released when the anime got announced. They could've saved a few million dollars and give it an awesome 12-13 episode adaptation instead. If at least the anime managed to boost the manga in a great way, but that didn't happen either.

Guys, there is still a fundamental concept: no matter the quality of the product, but how much it affects the popularity of the manga.


Certainly BHA was lucky to be entrusted to Bones, but the study that drives the product does not count, advertising counts.

Now how many people have approached Naruto, Bleach or One Piece because of the anime? So many, myself, does it matter that the soul often does not live up to it?

The souls of Black Cover, regardless of quality, will attract a lot of people to the manga and already see the results on the sales side. Not that the Pierrot is bad, so many episodes of Beach and Naruto were perfectly animated.

This counts at the end, understand?

Even if the anime is not faithful manga, what do you care? As long as it is spoken and attracts people .....

So? All anime that are adaptations are ads. Can't we desire or want a good loyal adaptation to something from the largest magazine in Japan, especially if it is a good manga? A lot of people got into Naruto, OP and Bleach because of their anime, but there sure are a lot of people that were left with a bitter taste because of their anime adaptations. Animation is an artform, I love it, it's great, it saddens me to see something with potential to get killed off by an old fashioned approach, the long-running approach, which is finally dying off, I'm glad. The new way to go is seasonal. Also, OP, Naruto and Bleach are all quite special cases, wouldn't you say?

The thing is, even if an anime is basically a big expensive ad, it doesn't mean it has to be a sloppy and shitty one, anime adaptations can be great while also spreading awareness to the manga that they're promoting. You know, promoting the manga with how greatly it adapts it so people really get an idea of what the manga is all about.

I really don't understand your whole soul thing.

So many episodes of Bleach and Naruto were decently animated, while many many others were horribly botched in one way or another. Perfectly, I wouldn't say so, Naruto especially had some great animation highlights consistently but had a lot of other problems. I have a lot of problems when half of an anime adaptations is basically useless garbage filler and a massive waste of money and to make things even worse, those filler episodes don't even promote the manga's content.

"Even if the anime is not faithful manga, what do you care? As long as it is spoken and attracts people ...."
Not this makes me mad. How can fans of a manga not care about what adaptations their favorite manga get? It's not like we're asking for that much, a faithful adaptation to see our favorite moments in color and in motion and filled with life is great. Is it a bad thing to be mad at a half-assed adaptation that doesn't really do justice to the manga? How can I not care, as someone that potentially follows a manga for years and if I'm very invested into the series, of course I'd want the best for it, when I know it's possible.

 

[Franz]

So far the anime didn't boost the sales in any way.

There was an increase, just think that before the TOP never appeared (while now the 14 is in the top 10), and recently also announced that they want to reprint the old volumes.

Volume 12 sold 69.741 units in 3 days. Volume 13 sold 100.937 units in 5 days. Volume 14 sold 140.431 units in 7 days.

It seems to me sales increases ...

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

Also just appearing on screen is no guarantee of characterization.

However, the fact remains that it gives more space and increases its popularity.

Suffice it to say that in the last BHA popularity poll a tertiary character like Shinso came tenth only to have appeared in the second season ...

 

[SharkBait]

Using "first week sales increase of new volume" to define if anime caused a sales increase is an odd marker. Did people think on episode 1, people would somehow buy the 13 volumes immediately? Clearly older volumes continuing to be on the weekly chart every week since the anime aired + reprinting is a better indicator of the anime causing an increase. You cant say the same for other anime like UQHolder.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

Twin Star had a bunch of stuff either cut out, rearranged, or rewritten slightly to make the characters dumber/angrier.

Twin Star had KENN and lol (one of the best music groups) so it was a good anime.

 

[Franz]

So? All anime that are adaptations are ads. Can't we desire or want a good loyal adaptation to something from the largest magazine in Japan, especially if it is a good manga? A lot of people got into Naruto, OP and Bleach because of their anime, but there sure are a lot of people that were left with a bitter taste because of their anime adaptations.

So ?

The fact that they have attracted people to the manga is forgotten.

Not even the anime of Hokuto no Ken was 100% loyal to the manga, yet it attracted so many people to the manga, not to mention DBZ.

For me the problem does not exist, I myself started BC only in view of the anime to say and I would never have approached MHA if I had not seen a piece of the anime.

The thing is, even if an anime is basically a big expensive ad, it doesn't mean it has to be a sloppy and shitty one.

For the most part it is so unfortunately.

Not this makes me mad. How can fans of a manga not care about what adaptations their favorite manga get?

At most we can complain about something, but I personally follow the philosophy of "Talk well, talk bad, just that you talk about it"

Did the anime of Black Clover bring attention to the main source? Good.

Are the detractors increased? Natural, but at least we talk about it more.

Have the manga readers increased? Certainly.

This counts, the anime may like it, but as long as you pay attention to the manga you do not need to be complaining. At most if someone is not happy, go to the manga and go.

 

[cody]

Some of us have standards. I don't really get what you were trying to say.

 

[Doughboy]

Yo you’re talking crazy as hell. For me seasonal is whack. Sharkbait is right that long running is the best cause it can work in the favor of characterization, fleshing out canon scenes to improve the story. It’s just how they go about it. I mean OP and DBS always rank top 10 in ratings right? It’s just companies are impatient nowadays and push the product out fast as hell, I dislike this new trend.

 

[cody]

Yo you’re talking crazy as hell. For me seasonal is whack. Sharkbait is right that long running is the best cause it can work in the favor of characterization, fleshing out canon scenes to improve the story. It’s just how they go about it. I mean OP and DBS always rank top 10 in ratings right? It’s just companies are impatient nowadays and push the product or fast as hell, I dislike this new trend.

I think you're talking crazy to think that there's anything good about long running anime, they are the worst of the worst for the most part. Long running anime were also adapted quickly, I think you're missing that. I'm really glad the the long running trend is dying.

 

[cody]

Just to throw this in for the Captain Tsubasa reboot. Back in the day, Captain Tsubasa's anime was extremely popular in the middle east (especially in the UAE) although it was renamed to Captain Majid. So many kids from there got into football because of Captain Tsubasa.
So, I'm hoping the reboot gets popular over there again.

I don't think it will, unless it will be broadcast worldwide in a ton of countries, which might be a plan of theirs. But I feel like this is just a tribute to the series, since the Olympics are approaching.

 

[101nemesis]

Just to throw this in for the Captain Tsubasa reboot. Back in the day, Captain Tsubasa's anime was extremely popular in the middle east (especially in the UAE) although it was renamed to Captain Majid. So many kids from there got into football because of Captain Tsubasa.
So, I'm hoping the reboot gets popular over there again.

I think you're talking crazy to think that there's anything good about long running anime, they are the worst of the worst for the most part. Long running anime were also adapted quickly, I think you're missing that. I'm really glad the the long running trend is dying.

I think you both need to realize that there are varying opinions on this and people can like one or the either or both. So stop arguing over this. Neither of you are actually right.

 

[ChocoBar9]

It seems to me sales increases ...

It seems to me that volume 14 was just out for more days than the previous two

 

[cody]

Just to throw this in for the Captain Tsubasa reboot. Back in the day, Captain Tsubasa's anime was extremely popular in the middle east (especially in the UAE) although it was renamed to Captain Majid. So many kids from there got into football because of Captain Tsubasa.
So, I'm hoping the reboot gets popular over there again.

I think you both need to realize that there are varying opinions on this and people can like one or the either or both. So stop arguing over this. Neither of you are actually right.

At the end of the day, long runners are dying off so I can't complain. Opinions or no opinions, the hundreds of useless filler episodes and terribly animated episodes from longer runners are still there.

 

[ShenGao]

There was an increase, just think that before the TOP never appeared (while now the 14 is in the top 10), and recently also announced that they want to reprint the old volumes.

It seems to me sales increases ...

It didn't. BC volumes are still selling ~20k units per day in their first week and that 2 months after the anime started.
For comparison BnHA volumes almost doubled their daily sales in their first week after it's first 13 episodes long season.

149444 (4)│223055│251675│272270│------┃*,650,533 (291)┃2016/02｜僕のヒーローアカデミア 7
221235 (7)│277672│313251│345582│376940┃*,616,523 (231)┃2016/04｜僕のヒーローアカデミア 8
197805 (3)│339686│390520│422690│446246┃*,584,647 (171)┃2016/06｜僕のヒーローアカデミア 9

149.444 / 4 = 37.361
221.235 / 7 = 31.605
197.805 / 3 = 65.935

Same thing with Shokugeki no Soma.

196446 (5)│271048│301950│******│335589┃*,520,416 (264)┃2015/03｜食戟のソーマ 11
144657 (3)│262627│305739│334111│355983┃*,537,647 (234)┃2015/04｜食戟のソーマ 12
237951 (4)│345630│390945│417087│------┃*,545,877 (172)┃2015/06｜食戟のソーマ 13

196.446 / 5 = 39.289,2
144.657 / 3 = 48.219
237.951 / 4 = 59.487,7

Just 2 months and BnHA & SnS got a noticeable boost, but BC didn't.

 

[Franz]

Some of us have standards. I don't really get what you were trying to say.

Even if this were the case, the market does not look at the standards. Just think of the One Piece anime.

I understand your criticism and your perplexities, but that's how it works.

Just 2 months and BnHA & SnS got a noticeable boost, but BC didn't.

No.

The increase was there, and a look at the Oricon charts.

In the last the 14th is fourth while the 13th was ninth.

And if you're saying why they're reprinting old copies? Even a few pages ago there is a graph that showed the interest in BC had risen.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

It didn't. BC volumes are still selling ~20k units per day in their first week and that 2 months after the anime started.
.

09. Black Clover #12 (69,741)
05. Black Clover #13 (100,937)
04. Black Clover #14 (139,671 / 140,431)

To me they seem increases .....

And probably in the future they will grow even more

 

[ShenGao]

Even if this were the case, the market does not look at the standards. Just think of the One Piece anime.

I understand your criticism and your perplexities, but that's how it works.

No.

The increase was there, and a look at the Oricon charts.

In the last the 14th is fourth while the 13th was ninth.

And if you're saying why they're reprinting old copies? Even a few pages ago there is a graph that showed the interest in BC had risen.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

09. Black Clover #12 (69,741)
05. Black Clover #13 (100,937)
04. Black Clover #14 (139,671 / 140,431)

To me they seem increases .....

You realize that every volume was on sale for a different amount of days, right? Volume 12 was out for 3 days, volume 13 was out for 5 days, and volume 14 was out for 7 days. Every day means more time for people to buy the volumes and because of that it's number and ranking is high, but it doesn't change the fact all 3 volumes sold ~20k units per day.
And if you mean this graph
then that's nothing. It only says volume 1 of BC sold 5 times more from september 2017 to october 2017 thanks to the anime. There are no numbers. Going from 2.000 units to 10.000 is an increase by 5 too, but it's literally nothing in terms of sales.

 

[iceemperor]

So ?

The fact that they have attracted people to the manga is forgotten.

Not even the anime of Hokuto no Ken was 100% loyal to the manga, yet it attracted so many people to the manga, not to mention DBZ.

For me the problem does not exist, I myself started BC only in view of the anime to say and I would never have approached MHA if I had not seen a piece of the anime.


For the most part it is so unfortunately.


At most we can complain about something, but I personally follow the philosophy of "Talk well, talk bad, just that you talk about it"

Did the anime of Black Clover bring attention to the main source? Good.

Are the detractors increased? Natural, but at least we talk about it more.

Have the manga readers increased? Certainly.

This counts, the anime may like it, but as long as you pay attention to the manga you do not need to be complaining. At most if someone is not happy, go to the manga and go.

That's the problem. BC is getting attention in the west especially after Heroaca just ended a season ago but moreso due to being a new Jump adaptation. The west, especially in America, specifically the DB generation and onwards pay attention to new Jump adaptations. Its also on Toonami so in the small amount of anime that air on TV, as opposed to the large streaming catalogue, it stands out because its a new Jump series. That's not the case in Japan where much more anime air on TV. BC had some attention in the beginning of this cour but now, lots of people have stopped actively watching the series. It will still be watched and move backlog sales as it airs during the day as opposed to late-night anime but the series is having a really hard time making people stay invested in the series. Every time there is a discussion on 5ch its almost always trolls who bring it in and sarcastically say its the face of jump or as an example of bad pacing or if its a serious conversation, after a few posts, the conversation turns to other series like Heroaca, Neverland, Kimetsu and Stone. It had a good start on other anime-matome sites but now its just a few people who watch it and others who just post memes or complain about the series.

Even putting aside the 5ch reaction, twitter is barely talking about the series. We don't have full TV ratings information and from what we do its not enough to say anything as that timeslot has low viewership to begin with. Its latest volume just caught up with Neverland, a series that started over a year later, with this first cour. While its a little early to fully see the boost after the first cour as we should wait a month to see how long it will chart, this is not a good sign. Just because its being reprinted doesn't necessarily indicate that sales will double because we have no idea how big the reprint is. Its defintely a good sign but for this first cour, we should wait till the end of the month.

 

[Franz]

You realize that every volume was on sale for a different amount of days, right? .

Yes.

But this is only the first week. And you must count there concurrency of other manga,,,,

Every day means more time for people to buy the volumes and because of that it's number and ranking is high, but it doesn't change the fact all 3 volumes sold ~20k units per day.

I do not understand where you want to arrive, do you mean that sales have decreased?

If with the souls BC has passed from ninth to fourth it means that an increase there was, period.

Sales for day are relatively important. What matters is the ranking.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

BC had some attention in the beginning of this cour but now, lots of people have stopped actively watching the series.

Source?

It's not necessarily a bad thing, many people may even want to switch to the manga,

Every time there is a discussion on 5ch

This the source ?

Even putting aside the 5ch reaction, twitter is barely talking about the series. .

Twitter ? Seriuoisly ?

However, they also immediately designed a video game for PS4. So they must seriously believe in the product.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017 ---

That's the problem. BC is getting attention in the west .

And this counts.

Nothing else. Attention positive, negative, as always when you bring to the masses something that was relatively little known.