Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

[Hannibal Psyche]

Unless you're in the actual crew of someone trying to be pirate king, allies and people just supporting therefore fall under the category of those not trying to be PK, which again proves the point that the majority ain't actively trying to be pirate king. Many might have set sail trying but are now settled under a Yonkous flag and aren't doing anything towards finding one piece.

Fact is most are in crews aiding their captains to be Pirate King.

Those who subordinate to the Yonko are made to either by force or by defeat. Bege is a prime example of this. Subordinated himself because he couldn't defat Big Mom.

The point is, they set sail trying, we're not talking about what they settled for.

As I said, the rise of Pirates after Roger's death is the aim to be Pirate King. You more or less admit to the point I've been making all along. The rise to Piracy was caused by desire to be King, what happened after is irrelevant.

Your statement is also somewhat atrocious to. People supporting someone trying to be Pirate King despite not being in the crew are no different. Bartolomeo is no different from Nami, they're all supporters. Not sure where or how you're defining supporter. You don't have to be in the actual crew to aid in making someone king. That is awful logic to say otherwise.

Ace was defeated by Whitebeard but he was still given an option to join him and wasn't forced. The WB pirates accommodated both him and his crew until he came to a decision and I imagine there'd be plenty like him and Squard who were given the simple option seeing as they all seem happy to be under WB. They were were happy to follow a man who wasn't trying to become PK.

Wrong, Ace believed he was trying to be Pirate King. He only gave up on being Pirate King when he deemed Whitebeard the man that deserved it.

Whitebeard Pirates were with him when he was aiming to be Pirate King, they're not going to abandon him just because he gave up that goal, he is their father after all.

Like I said before, you have 0 proof:

1. You can't contest the fact Whitebeard was fighting Roger often.
2. You can't contest the fact that only those who reach the Island end of the Log Pose learn about One Piece.
3. You can't contest the fact that going to Wano is consistent with aiming for One Piece.
4. You can't contest the fact that they both had Oden as crew members is consistent with One Piece and the aim to be Pirate King.

I have evidence to back my points, you have opinions derived from taking information out of context to contrive your conclusion.

Whitebeard wasn't talking about a traditional family. That's why he said it's something he'd always wanted as a kid and wasn't interested in treasure. His dream was to gather crew members who he could call family. A simple man with a noble dream. He also told Roger that he wasn't interested in finding Raftel before Roger said anything to him about the Will of D, even going so far as to say he wouldn't go there even if he told him where it was.

Wrong, he was looking for a family. Not being interested with gold has nothing to do with family. Not sure how you link the 2.

You're hoodwinked by an illogical fallacy. Your argument here is you can't want a family and want to find One Piece? Lol.

He lost interest only after Roger had become Pirate King, otherwise, he wouldn't have had anything to do with the Island at the end of the Log-pose, Wano and Oden.

 

[Freid]

Fact is most are in crews aiding their captains to be Pirate King.

Those who subordinate to the Yonko are made to either by force or by defeat. Bege is a prime example of this. Subordinated himself because he couldn't defat Big Mom.

The point is, they set sail trying, we're not talking about what they settled for.

As I said, the rise of Pirates after Roger's death is the aim to be Pirate King. You more or less admit to the point I've been making all along. The rise to Piracy was caused by desire to be King, what happened after is irrelevant.

Your statement is also somewhat atrocious to. People supporting someone trying to be Pirate King despite not being in the crew are no different. Bartolomeo is no different from Nami, they're all supporters. Not sure where or how you're defining supporter. You don't have to be in the actual crew to aid in making someone king. That is awful logic to say otherwise.



Wrong, Ace believed he was trying to be Pirate King. He only gave up on being Pirate King when he deemed Whitebeard the man that deserved it.

Whitebeard Pirates were with him when he was aiming to be Pirate King, they're not going to abandon him just because he gave up that goal, he is their father after all.

Like I said before, you have 0 proof:

1. You can't contest the fact Whitebeard was fighting Roger often.
2. You can't contest the fact that only those who reach the Island end of the Log Pose learn about One Piece.
3. You can't contest the fact that going to Wano is consistent with aiming for One Piece.
4. You can't contest the fact that they both had Oden as crew members is consistent with One Piece and the aim to be Pirate King.

I have evidence to back my points, you have opinions derived from taking information out of context to contrive your conclusion.



Wrong, he was looking for a family. Not being interested with gold has nothing to do with family. Not sure how you link the 2.

You're hoodwinked by an illogical fallacy. Your argument here is you can't want a family and want to find One Piece? Lol.

He lost interest only after Roger had become Pirate King, otherwise, he wouldn't have had anything to do with the Island at the end of the Log-pose, Wano and Oden.

If crews are allied with Yonkous, then they're not actively working to become PK themselves which is the majority of those in the New World. As far as we've seen in the manga, Whitebeard hasn't forced anyone to join his crew. Ace even though defeated had the choice. Squard was also invited in and WB took Fishman Island under his control as a gesture of goodwill. It's likely that other people Whitebeard defeated were given the same options Squard and Ace were and Shanks seems fairly reasonable too. BM and Kaidou might be more forceful when it comes to alliances which would mean some crews allied with them might not be trying to be pirate king out of fear.

Most people might have set sail trying to be pirate king but most who have reached the New World aren't trying anymore. Oda has made it a point to name the few who are still actively working towards it.

Whitebeard said he wasn't interested in treasure and all he wanted out of being a pirate was a family. He also said to Roger he wasn't interested in finding Raftel at all, not that he stopped after Roger found it. His and Roger's conversation reminds me of Dorry and Brogy's relationship. They fought as friendly rivals, not enemies.

 

[M3J]

Also, it doesn't look like Buggy really cares about getting One Piece either. He's barely made an effort to go after it; rather he's been trying to go after treasures here and there. So we know Whitebeard has never cared for One Piece or reaching Raftel, and Buggy, Shanks, and probably Kaidou don't care to get to Raftel or become Pirate King either. Big Mom definitely does, but it looks like she's locked in stalemate.

Looks like only the Supernovas are making moves to get to Raftel.

Whitebeard said he wasn't interested in treasure and all he wanted out of being a pirate was a family. He also said to Roger he wasn't interested in finding Raftel at all, not that he stopped after Roger found it. His and Roger's conversation reminds me of Dorry and Brogy's relationship. They fought as friendly rivals, not enemies.

I still don't understand how HP twisted that into Whitebeard giving up or not wanting to become the Pirate King anymore.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I don't know who said it, possibly Big Mom or one of the Minks on Zou, but one of the characters said she wants to become pirate king as well. What's confusing is that she's done almost nothing to get closer to becoming pirate king except for meticulous planning, like getting her daughter married to a giant royalty to acquire their battle strength.... unless the giantification of children is to get that sort of an army.

I dunno if they're the only desperate ones though. We know Luffy wants to become the pirate king because he's the main character, so we know a lot about him. Bege doesn't seem to have such aspirations, while Kidd is trying to take out Yonkou. What if most other pirates have allied with a Yonkou or each another/other strong groups to help them get closer to becoming pirate king? They can't do anything because the Yonkou are too powerful, so they have to somehow find a way to either get protection or beat the Yonkou, which could be a way of wanting to become pirate king.

Luffy is probably one of hte very few who's willing to dive into danger. if not the only one. Haven't tons of pirates, including Kidd, commented on how insane Luffy is, as well as his (and the Monster Trio sometimes) lack of awareness of danger?

Still waiting for proof, evidence, or anything that even implies Whitebeard wanted to become Pirate King or was after the One Piece when he himself has said he wanted to have a family and didn't care about getting to Raftel. He also has never even suggested having such dream to conquer the seas.

What if indeed? The little time we saw with the Kidd Alliance really seemed like Killer was just trying to support his captain's goal of PK by convincing him to ally with other Supernovae, but we have so little panel-space to extract details of. I'm just going on what we already know- Luffy, Kidd, Law, and BB are the only ones actively gunning for PK. Then again Oda can't waste but so much panel-space on a bunch of characters expositing about their goals like Luffy and the others get to so who knows? Roger's last words inspired people to become pirates and a few to become PK. Kind of makes me wonder who is revealed to have CoC next, since Luffy's the only one in that list that definitely does.

There won't be any proof. That conversation took place with WB at his young prime; I don't think he ever cared about PK. Just wanted to be free enough to adopt all the urchins.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---

Fact is majority of Pirates start off their campaigns to be Pirate King, to say otherwise is completely a lie, lol.

That is absolutely your opinion and to say otherwise is a complete lie. Most pirates start off their campaigns just wanting to do whatever they want to do. Just because many- not even all- were inspired by Roger doesn't mean they literally all started out trying to be PK.

Even most yonkou have dreams other than just getting to Raftel/OP/PK.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That is absolutely your opinion and to say otherwise is a complete lie. Most pirates start off their campaigns just wanting to do whatever they want to do. Just because many- not even all- were inspired by Roger doesn't mean they literally all started out trying to be PK.

It's not. What does it say in this panel? You can read.

 

[Core D. Roy]

It's not. What does it say in this panel? You can read.

Roger says "My treasure? Why, it's right where I left it... It's your if you can find it... But you'll have to search the whole world!"

And then the narrator says "The world... is about to witness a great era of piracy".

Yeah you're totally wrong. Not all quadrilaterals are squares. This has nothing to do with the claim that all pirates want to be PK, or the claim that all yonkou are gunning for it either. What does it say in the panels? Surely you too can read too.

Roger inspired a GREAT ERA OF PIRACY. Nowhere does it say that every pirate was transfixed with finding OP/Raftel/becoming PK. You're grasping at the tiniest of straws.

But yeah keep throwing passive aggressive shade at everyone that disagrees with you instead of having an ounce of self-awareness that you could be wrong.

 

[Freid]

This is where you're wrong. They didn't ally because they wanted to, they were forced to give up on the goals and allied. Seems you can't quite comprehend this.



Whitebeard defeated Ace, and gave him the option. How you can say no form of force was used when he took his entire crew and placed them on his ship is rather oblivious.



This is completely false, nonsensical. Where is the proof?

People try but fail whether at the start of the Grand line or the New World. Point is they became Pirates initially because of One Piece.



Lol, this is exactly what the fandom said concerning Big Mom. They said she didn't want to be Pirate King, she just wanted candy. So, your argument that just because it's not explicitly stated means not wanting to be Pirate King is poor comprehension, just shows inability to really read between the lines. Same thing was said concerning Kaido, he just wants an army of Zoans, but I stated otherwise.

Some people just need spoon-feeding I guess.

Lol no, they were enemies. Not friends. They just had respect between the other. Even Garp treats Roger with respect, doesn't mean they weren't enemies.

Again, you're just really being ignorant of facts.

Fact is majority of Pirates start off their campaigns to be Pirate King, to say otherwise is completely a lie, lol.

It's amusing how you can state:

1. Going to Wano.
2. Trying to acquire Oden.
3. and fighting Roger which is most likely because they were competing to be Pirate King is not the case, and just fighting because they just wanted to fight.

All of this steps to be Pirate King are just activities carried out to not be Pirate King? comical, lol.

Most crews in the New World are allied under a Yonkou which means they're in no position to try and become pirate king unless they cut ties with them. So for those who are allied with Big Mom that probably means the end of their dream. I assume an alliance with Kaidou is also a permanent contract, which means at least half of the New World pirates aren't trying to become pirate king and since most people allied with Whitebeard are happy with their arrangement, it proves the point that the majority of those who make it to the New World aren't actively trying to become pirate king whether they have a choice or not.

As far as we know Ace nor his crew were kept hostage and the crew were only kept because Ace was on board. Ace was pretty much left to his own devices and in the end decided to join.

Law mentioned that in order to survive in the New World, you either have to ally yourself with a Yonkou or constantly challenge them and the only ones we know to be doing the latter are some of the supernova which makes sense as Luffy's rivals. Most people aren't as reckless as the worst generation and nobody else has been mentioned to be going after the Yonkous.

Whitebeard only said he was interested in having a family when asked by his crewmates at the time. If he wanted to be pirate king, he would have said when given the opportunity and that was also reinforced when he told Roger he didn't wonna know how to get to Raftel.

Whitebeard and Roger were enemies who became friends and rivals.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Most crews in the New World are allied under a Yonkou which means they're in no position to try and become pirate king unless they cut ties with them. So for those who are allied with Big Mom that probably means the end of their dream. I assume an alliance with Kaidou is also a permanent contract, which means at least half of the New World pirates aren't trying to become pirate king and since most people allied with Whitebeard are happy with their arrangement, it proves the point that the majority of those who make it to the New World aren't actively trying to become pirate king whether they have a choice or not.

As far as we know Ace nor his crew were kept hostage and the crew were only kept because Ace was on board. Ace was pretty much left to his own devices and in the end decided to join.

Law mentioned that in order to survive in the New World, you either have to ally yourself with a Yonkou or constantly challenge them and the only ones we know to be doing the latter are some of the supernova which makes sense as Luffy's rivals. Most people aren't as reckless as the worst generation and nobody else has been mentioned to be going after the Yonkous.

Whitebeard only said he was interested in having a family when asked by his crewmates at the time. If he wanted to be pirate king, he would have said when given the opportunity and that was also reinforced when he told Roger he didn't wonna know how to get to Raftel.

Whitebeard and Roger were enemies who became friends and rivals.

Think the evidence speaks for itself.

I assume an alliance with Kaidou is also a permanent contract, which means at least half of the New World pirates aren't trying to become pirate king

Since when do Pirates really care about contracts? It's only permanent if they fear an Emperor which most do, or if they really want to aid in their goal.

Again, it's irrelevant because before they were faced with the obstacles whether Emperor or not, they aimed to be Pirate King. Says so in chapter 2.

Bege is int a so-called contract with Big Mom, and he's broken it now, so contracts are pointless. It doesn't further your argument.

Whitebeard and Roger were enemies who became friends and rivals.

Doesn't change the fact they were both aiming to be Pirate King. Again, point is One Piece is the reason people fluctuated to become Pirates.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---

Roger says "My treasure? Why, it's right where I left it... It's your if you can find it... But you'll have to search the whole world!"

And then the narrator says "The world... is about to witness a great era of piracy".

Yeah you're totally wrong. Not all quadrilaterals are squares. This has nothing to do with the claim that all pirates want to be PK, or the claim that all yonkou are gunning for it either. What does it say in the panels? Surely you too can read too.

Roger inspired a GREAT ERA OF PIRACY. Nowhere does it say that every pirate was transfixed with finding OP/Raftel/becoming PK. You're grasping at the tiniest of straws.

But yeah keep throwing passive aggressive shade at everyone that disagrees with you instead of having an ounce of self-awareness that you could be wrong.

And you're still wrong because people became Pirates because of One Piece.

"Every Pirate", think the phrase is self-explanatory.

 

[Freid]

Think the evidence speaks for itself.



Since when do Pirates really care about contracts? It's only permanent if they fear an Emperor which most do, or if they really want to aid in their goal.

Again, it's irrelevant because before they were faced with the obstacles whether Emperor or not, they aimed to be Pirate King. Says so in chapter 2.

Bege is int a so-called contract with Big Mom, and he's broken it now, so contracts are pointless. It doesn't further your argument.



Doesn't change the fact they were both aiming to be Pirate King. Again, point is One Piece is the reason people fluctuated to become Pirates.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---

And you're still wrong because people became Pirates because of One Piece.

"Every Pirate", think the phrase is self-explanatory.

For those that set sail trying to be pirate king, many don't survive to reach Shabondy and even less survive the trip down to Fishman Island which leaves the rest who either ally themselves with a Yonkou or try to overthrow them. Of all those people the only ones we know of that are currently going after the Yonkou are a few of the supernovas. The ones under Yonkou might have tried once but aren't anymore which proves the point that not all pirates are currently trying to be pirate king.

It's possible there'd be pirates trying to detach themselves from BM and Kaidou but they'd probably have a hard time considering BM's leaving policy. Forcefully trying to leave would also likely end in their deaths. Capone didn't factor Luffy into his original plan and still they're having a hard time surviving right now. Most people wouldn't be so lucky. The worst generation also stand out as the most ambitious which is why they're the only ones we know of trying to take down the Yonkou. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Drake is scheming something himself. WB Jr wants BBs head but that's for revenge.

WB was asked by members of his crew back then his goal as a pirate and his answer was to have a family after telling them he wasn't interested in treasure, so he wasn't trying to be pirate king which makes sense considering he told roger years later that he doesn't wonna find Raftel. Fighting comes with the territory as a pirate and being that WB was powerful, he would fight the only guy that rivalled him in strength. I can agree most others might have started off trying to be pirate king but it's until they hit a wall and have to face reality.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

For those that set sail trying to be pirate king, many don't survive to reach Shabondy

It doesn't mean they didn't try to be Pirate King. I'm trying to be president, just because I am not president doesn't mean I never tried. Fact is what it is One Piece that initiated the age of Piracy.

The ones under Yonkou might have tried once but aren't anymore which proves the point that not all pirates are currently trying to be pirate king.

Doesn't matter, they attempted to which is the main entire point.

It's possible there'd be pirates trying to detach themselves from BM and Kaidou but they'd probably have a hard time considering BM's leaving policy. Forcefully trying to leave would also likely end in their deaths. Capone didn't factor Luffy into his original plan and still they're having a hard time surviving right now. Most people wouldn't be so lucky. The worst generation also stand out as the most ambitious which is why they're the only ones we know of trying to take down the Yonkou. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Drake is scheming something himself. WB Jr wants BBs head but that's for revenge.

That is besides the point, the point is what started people of as Pirates? It's Roger, it's One Piece. Where they end is not the discussion.

WB was asked by members of his crew back then his goal as a pirate and his answer was to have a family after telling them he wasn't interested in treasure, so he wasn't trying to be pirate king which makes sense considering he told roger years later that he doesn't wonna find Raftel. Fighting comes with the territory as a pirate and being that WB was powerful, he would fight the only guy that rivalled him in strength. I can agree most others might have started off trying to be pirate king but it's until they hit a wall and have to face reality.

He said he wasn't interested in wealth, it doesn't mean he wasn't interested in One Piece. No one knows what it is until they find it.

Why is it that both Whitebeard and Roger both had Oden who is directly related to the Poneglyph?

 

[Freid]

It doesn't mean they didn't try to be Pirate King. I'm trying to be president, just because I am not president doesn't mean I never tried. Fact is what it is One Piece that initiated the age of Piracy.



Doesn't matter, they attempted to which is the main entire point.



That is besides the point, the point is what started people of as Pirates? It's Roger, it's One Piece. Where they end is not the discussion.



He said he wasn't interested in wealth, it doesn't mean he wasn't interested in One Piece. No one knows what it is until they find it.

Why is it that both Whitebeard and Roger both had Oden who is directly related to the Poneglyph?

One Piece didn't exist when Whitebeard became a pirate. All there was was treasure to fight for. Also when we reach the Wano Arc, we'll learn more about WB's and Oden's relationship. Right now all we know for a fact is WB didn't want to know how to get to Raftel as those were his words.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

One Piece didn't exist when Whitebeard became a pirate. All there was was treasure to fight for. Also when we reach the Wano Arc, we'll learn more about WB's and Oden's relationship. Right now all we know for a fact is WB didn't want to know how to get to Raftel as those were his words.

What?

It says "finally achieved what OTHERS had called IMPOSSIBLE".

Can't call something impossible if you don't know what it is.

1. You do know that Raftel has always existed before Roger who is merely 76 years old if he was still alive?
2. Do you know the Poneglyph have existed for 800 years?

Therefore, One Piece has existed for 800 years.

it was even confirmed in this arc, Poneglyphs lead to Raftel where the Poneglyph revealing the secret of the world resides. Whoever finds it becomes Pirate King. Therefore, One Piece existed before Roger.

The significance of the Island at the end of the Log Pose is only Pirates like Shiki and co. who became Pirates before the Pirate Age knew about it. Roger more or less hinted at this information and that's why the Pirate Age started. He gave the world a lead into pursuing something only those in the New World could know, he involved the entire world, thus the reason people head to the New World.

One Piece most definitely existed before Roger & Whitebeard and it's bigger than they are. It all began from the Void Century and even before that.

 

[M3J]

What if indeed? The little time we saw with the Kidd Alliance really seemed like Killer was just trying to support his captain's goal of PK by convincing him to ally with other Supernovae, but we have so little panel-space to extract details of. I'm just going on what we already know- Luffy, Kidd, Law, and BB are the only ones actively gunning for PK. Then again Oda can't waste but so much panel-space on a bunch of characters expositing about their goals like Luffy and the others get to so who knows? Roger's last words inspired people to become pirates and a few to become PK. Kind of makes me wonder who is revealed to have CoC next, since Luffy's the only one in that list that definitely does.

There won't be any proof. That conversation took place with WB at his young prime; I don't think he ever cared about PK. Just wanted to be free enough to adopt all the urchins.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---

That is absolutely your opinion and to say otherwise is a complete lie. Most pirates start off their campaigns just wanting to do whatever they want to do. Just because many- not even all- were inspired by Roger doesn't mean they literally all started out trying to be PK.

Even most yonkou have dreams other than just getting to Raftel/OP/PK.

But given what Kidd has said before, he does want to find One Piece, if not become the pirate king. As you said, looks like the alliance is to help them take down the Yonkou, if not just one Yonkou at least, before they go their separate ways (or betray). I don't think any of them has Color of Conqueror, or they haven't revealed it yet. So far, there's been no mention of anyone from the group having Color of Conqueror, which actually isn't indicative of anything. I don't think anyone even knew Luffy could use Conqueror, except for the people who fought in the war.

He didn't seem to be young at all. But yeah, everything we've seen about Whitebeard, nothing ever implied he wanted to become pirate king. Just another made-up assumption, tbh.

I think only Big Mom and Blackbeard have dreams of becoming pirate king. Whitebeard just wanted a family, Kaidou wants to wreak havoc, and Shanks likely just wants to have fun. Though, Big Mom does have another dream, for her land to have every race getting along peacefully.

Though, I suspect Luffy's crew will add more to Luffy's ambitions. No doubt Robin's desire to learn about the Void Century will give Luffy a new goal, before or after he becomes pirate king, given what we can infer/assume.

Most crews in the New World are allied under a Yonkou which means they're in no position to try and become pirate king unless they cut ties with them. So for those who are allied with Big Mom that probably means the end of their dream. I assume an alliance with Kaidou is also a permanent contract, which means at least half of the New World pirates aren't trying to become pirate king and since most people allied with Whitebeard are happy with their arrangement, it proves the point that the majority of those who make it to the New World aren't actively trying to become pirate king whether they have a choice or not.

Yeah, but what if some of them are allied with a Yonkou only to get intel and have a better chance of taking them out with planning, like Bege? Though I'm sure you're aware of this, judging by what you said after this paragraph.

Think the evidence speaks for itself.

Wrong. That's not a fact, that's a point of view. Shanks, Whitebeard, and Mihawk are pirates, but they have shown no desire to get One Piece or get to Raftel. You really are good at taking things literally when you want, like your "proof," and choosing not to take the literal meaning, like when Doflamingo praised Sanji more than once with a serious face.

 

[Freid]

What?

It says "finally achieved what OTHERS had called IMPOSSIBLE".

Can't call something impossible if you don't know what it is.

1. You do know that Raftel has always existed before Roger who is merely 76 years old if he was still alive?
2. Do you know the Poneglyph have existed for 800 years?

Therefore, One Piece has existed for 800 years.

it was even confirmed in this arc, Poneglyphs lead to Raftel where the Poneglyph revealing the secret of the world resides. Whoever finds it becomes Pirate King. Therefore, One Piece existed before Roger.

The significance of the Island at the end of the Log Pose is only Pirates like Shiki and co. who became Pirates before the Pirate Age knew about it. Roger more or less hinted at this information and that's why the Pirate Age started. He gave the world a lead into pursuing something only those in the New World could know, he involved the entire world, thus the reason people head to the New World.

One Piece most definitely existed before Roger & Whitebeard and it's bigger than they are. It all began from the Void Century and even before that.

One Piece didn't exist in the sense that nobody knew anything about a reward you're supposed to find after reaching the last island. Pirates before the age of Roger became pirates for the simple treasures and it was only after Roger became pirate king that the existence of One Piece was brought to light. So we know for a fact that WB didn't become a pirate to find something called One Piece like most might have in the current timeline.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2018 ---

Yeah, but what if some of them are allied with a Yonkou only to get intel and have a better chance of taking them out with planning, like Bege? Though I'm sure you're aware of this, judging by what you said after this paragraph.

Very true I can imagine there'd be some with similar plans to Capone and I think it's even possible Drake might be planning his own betrayal.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

One Piece didn't exist in the sense that nobody knew anything about a reward you're supposed to find after reaching the last island. Pirates before the age of Roger became pirates for the simple treasures and it was only after Roger became pirate king that the existence of One Piece was brought to light. So we know for a fact that WB didn't become a pirate to find something called One Piece like most might have in the current timeline.

Again, that isn't true.

Other Pirates before Roger tried and failed because the Island at the end of the Log Pose existed where they'd learn of:

1. Ancient Kingdom
2. Raftel
3. Poneglyph

As Inuarashi said.

So, no, he wasn't the only one who knew about One Piece.

And as I said before, people can't call something before unless they know about the activity or has been attempted. It says "others had called finding One Piece impossible".

One Piece as knowledge only known by successful Pirate in the New World, it only extended out of the New World when Roger announced the fact treasure and existed.

Also, that was Whitebeard in a crew, you have no idea how far that crew went. Fact at the end of the day is, he was once in competition for One Piece, otherwise, he wouldn't have been fighting Roger, won't have gone to Wano, and wouldn't have recruited Oden.

 

[Freid]

Again, that isn't true.

Other Pirates before Roger tried and failed because the Island at the end of the Log Pose existed where they'd learn of:

1. Ancient Kingdom
2. Raftel
3. Poneglyph

As Inuarashi said.

So, no, he wasn't the only one who knew about One Piece.

And as I said before, people can't call something before unless they know about the activity or has been attempted. It says "others had called finding One Piece impossible".

One Piece as knowledge only known by successful Pirate in the New World, it only extended out of the New World when Roger announced the fact treasure and existed.

Also, that was Whitebeard in a crew, you have no idea how far that crew went. Fact at the end of the day is, he was once in competition for One Piece, otherwise, he wouldn't have been fighting Roger, won't have gone to Wano, and wouldn't have recruited Oden.

One Piece wasn't public knowledge before Roger's death which is why most pirates only set sail after he announced its existence. So prospective pirates before Roger's death would mainly set sail in search of treasure and possibly fame but WB's only motivation was a family. That's why after reaching the last island on the log pose, he said he wasn't interested in going further and finding Raftel. We were given his reason for becoming a pirate and his opinion on finding Raftel on two separate occasions from his own mouth.

Fighting comes with the territory when you're a travelling pirate, so the further WB got into the new world, the stronger his competition became. Roger was the only who rivalled him in strength so they constantly fought to best each other but as far as we know, it was only Roger of the two who went looking for Raftel after reaching the last island.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That's why after reaching the last island on the log pose, he said he wasn't interested in going further and finding Raftel. We were given his reason for becoming a pirate and his opinion on finding Raftel on two separate occasions from his own mouth.

Again, false.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have been at Wano or tried to recruit Oden who could read the Poneglyph.

You're just saying without evidence, lol. All his actions are consistent with One Piece. Roger wouldn't even have offered to tell him if he wasn't interested at a point. You're missing out a lot of context misconstruing a lot of facts.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2018 ---

Fighting comes with the territory when you're a travelling pirate, so the further WB got into the new world, the stronger his competition became. Roger was the only who rivalled him in strength so they constantly fought to best each other but as far as we know, it was only Roger of the two who went looking for Raftel after reaching the last island.

Again, wrong.

Roger stood in his way to become King. None of what you said can really be backed up because the Manga contradicts everything you've said. You can want a family and still want to be Pirate King at the same time, lol.

 

[Freid]

Again, false.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have been at Wano or tried to recruit Oden who could read the Poneglyph.

You're just saying without evidence, lol. All his actions are consistent with One Piece. Roger wouldn't even have offered to tell him if he wasn't interested at a point. You're missing out a lot of context misconstruing a lot of facts.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2018 ---

Again, wrong.

Roger stood in his way to become King. None of what you said can really be backed up because the Manga contradicts everything you've said. You can want a family and still want to be Pirate King at the same time, lol.

WB reached the last island, saw the Poneglyphs and didn't know what kind of information they held which is why he had Oden help decipher it. It's probably only after reading about One Piece and Raftel he decided he wasn't interested whereas Roger was. The extent of WB's interest was probably just what was written on the stones.

We've seen Shiki propose partnerships with both WB and Roger to conquer the world, and we know Roger found Raftel. Both of these guys were actively trying to be pirate king whereas the only time we saw WB give his opinion on Raftel, he said he wasn't interested in any of that.

WB's crewmates years back asked him about his motivation to be a pirate if it wasn't treasure and his only response was to have a family. If he wanted to be pirate king, he would have said at that time.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

WB reached the last island, saw the Poneglyphs and didn't know what kind of information they held which is why he had Oden help decipher it. It's probably only after reading about One Piece and Raftel he decided he wasn't interested whereas Roger was. The extent of WB's interest was probably just what was written on the stones.

Again, this is absolutely false.

The Island at the end of the Log Pose doesn't contain Poneglyphs, it's an Island that informs about their existence; no narrator is needed. He could only have met Oden after he learnt of the information at the end of the Log Pose Island. This Island is what leads to Oden and anything related to One Piece.

You're making up things on the fly, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2018 ---

We've seen Shiki propose partnerships with both WB and Roger to conquer the world, and we know Roger found Raftel. Both of these guys were actively trying to be pirate king whereas the only time we saw WB give his opinion on Raftel, he said he wasn't interested in any of that.

Yes, after he'd been to the Island at the end of the Log Pose and acquired information like everyone else.

WB's crewmates years back asked him about his motivation to be a pirate if it wasn't treasure and his only response was to have a family. If he wanted to be pirate king, he would have said at that time.

Doesn't need to, he just said he wasn't interested in treasure, didn't see he didn't want to be Pirate King.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2018 ---

We've seen Shiki propose partnerships with both WB and Roger to conquer the world, and we know Roger found Raftel. Both of these guys were actively trying to be pirate king whereas the only time we saw WB give his opinion on Raftel, he said he wasn't interested in any of that.

Yes, after he'd been to the Island at the end of the Log Pose and acquired information like everyone else.

Roger also never found Raftel when Shiki confronted him.... he found Ancient Weapons.

Roger hadn't found Raftel when he encountered Shiki, it explicitly states so.

It's 2 years after the Ed War he got to Raftel.

If you read the earlier parts of the Big Mom arc.. Roger was shown the Road Poneglypg to get to Raftel 26 years ago, and Shiki and Roger fought 27 years ago. So, no, Roger hadn't been to Raftel at that point.

 

[M3J]

Looks like there's no point in arguing with someone who is too selective about how he interprets the manga. We don't even know why Oden joined Whitebeard, it could be because he wanted to get somewhere, and Whitebeard was strong enough to help him. For all we know, Whitebeard wanted Oden to join Roger because Roger was actually trying to get to Raftel.

We don't have enough information, and yet HP is assuming and treating it as fact. Whitebeard has clearly stated he never cared about getting to Raftel, and that he cared more about having a family, and yet HP keeps making up the fact that Whitebeard was after the title/Raftel prior to Roger's execution. Waste of time, tbh.