Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[ChocoBar9]

I'd place the fullbringer arc around the half way mark of the series, which could be argued either way but its neither here nor there, and 200K drop for a "million" seller I personally wouldn't consider that much of a sales drop something to say its unpopular. I'm not a business major but I wouldn't consider that a waning in consumer interest in the series.

The penultimate arc of the series is the halfway point?

Maybe because some reader treat it like its the second coming of BD/One piece when it is no different then Black Clover (Yes before you comment it I know it has its issues don't bother brining them up its been done to death the reason its argued be people saying its good is that the ones who dislike the series don't take the time to look at the good things in the manga which is the opposite of MHA) in terms of story telling?

Clearly people don't think that's the case given the reception of the two couldn't be worlds apart. Also aren't you just insulting your own tastes considering you actually like Black Clover over MHA?

The series I use to moderately enjoy but ever since the AFO v. OFA fight the series has in my opinion declined in quality sure I may just be one person that says, but its still an opinion in the gran scheme of things that is all pretty much opinion based. And as stated sales =/= popularity if it did then series that are considered memes wouldn't be concidered popular

Why would people continue buying something that they don't enjoy?

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

And how do you explain that Haikyuu suddenly ranked lower around the same time? Especially considering Haikyuu was in a big match during nationals at that time. However I think it continuously ranked in top spots ever since it started, so why should it suddenly rank lower in one of the biggest matches of the manga? Considering that this match was at least as well written as all the other ones prior? And then it suddenly starts ranking lower around the same time as MHA?

Haikyuu!! managed to be a bottom dweller for a while and even placed last in ToC several years ago. Let's blame EiC too.

Too long wall of text....

So, quality chapter = higher ToC position? By that logic, BC should be cancelled after 10 chapters then? Your opinion about how much quality that chapter doesn't mean Japanese readers whom send the vote agreed with it.

 

[MangAniMY]

What trap do you feel like all these canceled adventures have done that My Hero and BC avoided? I agree with what you said but I’m honestly curious. I didn’t think MHA got good until Deku arrived at UA. BC I’m unsure of when the jump of enjoyment occurred for me cause I’m not sure it occurred yet.

not the person you asked, but
They both to me are quite lucky to appear on jump at the right time, but luck is not the only factor at play here. because they are really cliche when you break their plot down tbh.

both have flawed a MC with a better rival, who (1 willingly and another unwillingly) knew the MC worth. they both have a clear goal and a figure they look up to.

both need to enroll in something in order to achieved said goal.

all of that really sounds like generic battle shounen.

what caused them to have a hook factor is the premise and pacing.

MHA have the superhero setting which thanks to the MCU is a big thing worldwide.

BC got the more cliche Magical land and item that give you power but I don't really remember the last time Jump have that.

Their pacing pacing were really fast with BC even more so than MHA.

MHA 1st chapter was amazing the including the 2nd chapter could be a whole arc to some series.

BC seems like it knew it is cliche and blaze through the early chapter


I want to write more but writing on my phone sucks


edit:ironic since this is also a long ass post

 

[Koi Kage]

The penultimate arc pf the series is the halfway point?



Clearly people don't think that's the case given the reception of the two couldn't be worlds apart. Also aren't you just insulting your own tastes considering you actually like Black Clover over MHA?

Why would people continue buying something that they don't enjoy?

I said it could be argued either way about whether it was the half way point or not I personally think it was but I could see how somone would think other wise. Taste in something is subjective depending on who you ask I hated Naruto with a white hot intensity of the sun but enjoy a series that some say is a clone, I personally don't see how its any more similar to Naruto then Bleach is to Yu Yu Hakashou but its whatever. Also both series had vastly different starts and time frames from when they first appeared in WSJ MHA, while I'd consider just as Naruto like as Black Clover is considered, didn't recieve nearly as bad a backlash from its debut as Black Clover which hindered it growth early on I know I've made this arguement before but lets say the order of when they first started in WSJ was reversed there is a sizable possibility that what happened to Black Clover would happen to MHA early on. You'd actually be suprised what some people would do heck Fairy tale was still bought even though most readers agreed that it had gotten bad so theres your *insert series example* it probably mainly has to do with people wanting to finish the collection just because they started collecting it so might as well finish it.

 

[MangAniMY]

The penultimate arc of the series is the halfway point

it starts at 424, and bleach ended at 686 (add 12 to everything) that is a 3rd of the series


side note:
If you think about it,in Naruto the entirety of the 4th Ninja war is a 3rd of the series

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Well, can't wait to see Ziga. I hope it won't flop like Bozebeats

 

[xAsum0x]

I said it could be argued either way about whether it was the half way point or not I personally think it was but I could see how somone would think other wise. Taste in something is subjective depending on who you ask I hated Naruto with a white hot intensity of the sun but enjoy a series that some say is a clone, I personally don't see how its any more similar to Naruto then Bleach is to Yu Yu Hakashou but its whatever. Also both series had vastly different starts and time frames from when they first appeared in WSJ MHA, while I'd consider just as Naruto like as Black Clover is considered, didn't recieve nearly as bad a backlash from its debut as Black Clover which hindered it growth early on I know I've made this arguement before but lets say the order of when they first started in WSJ was reversed there is a sizable possibility that what happened to Black Clover would happen to MHA early on. You'd actually be suprised what some people would do heck Fairy tale was still bought even though most readers agreed that it had gotten bad so theres your *insert series example* it probably mainly has to do with people wanting to finish the collection just because they started collecting it so might as well finish it.

They both got compared to Naruto so what's your point? When they started is irrelevant and your point makes no sense. Black Clover got backlashed because when it started it was garbage and a literal copy and paste of Naruto, not because it started after Naruto came out. It's the ol story of good execution my friend, Though MHA is nothing like Naruto

 

[MangAniMY]

Well, can't wait to see Ziga. I hope it won't flop like Bozebeats

I'm just going to hold on that Yoko conspiracy theory we had earlier this week for now just because it will increase My hype.

 

[101nemesis]

I'd place the fullbringer arc around the half way mark of the series, which could be argued either way but its neither here nor there, and 200K drop for a "million" seller I personally wouldn't consider that much of a sales drop something to say its unpopular. I'm not a business major but I wouldn't consider that a waning in consumer interest in the series.

200k for a series that sold 1 million is a HUGE drop. That's 20% of the sales that disappeared within the span of 2-4 volumes. You don't need to be a business major to know that it's a big warning sign. Also, it was around that time the ranks tanked hard and Toriko took over Ichigo's spot in the magazine joint covers. So yeah, lowering of sales do mean waning in consumer interest.
It's why moderately popular series like Beelzebub are cancelled despite selling 200k in favor of new series because it was past it's peak, with declining sales and would no longer be able to attract more people.

Even before then. The final bout with Aizen leading into Fulbring was when sales had a significant drop after reaching its peak in 2009. It was definite arc fatigue followed by a largely uninteresting arc that made it lose a bulk of its readership and with no new ones coming in it just kept going down.

The volume with aizen on the cover (Volume 48) onward was when the drop started happening. But 48's drop compared to 47 was nothing big. You can see a significant drop from 49 onwards even when you compare it to 48. The fullbring arc volume started with a 100-150k drop from the volume right before it (aka Volume 48). Kubo's mistake in not foreshadowing anything related to FB arc or even the final quincy arc is what led to all of it. He just didn't think far ahead enough.

 

[ShenGao]

I said it could be argued either way about whether it was the half way point or not I personally think it was but I could see how somone would think other wise. Taste in something is subjective depending on who you ask I hated Naruto with a white hot intensity of the sun but enjoy a series that some say is a clone, I personally don't see how its any more similar to Naruto then Bleach is to Yu Yu Hakashou but its whatever. Also both series had vastly different starts and time frames from when they first appeared in WSJ MHA, while I'd consider just as Naruto like as Black Clover is considered, didn't recieve nearly as bad a backlash from its debut as Black Clover which hindered it growth early on I know I've made this arguement before but lets say the order of when they first started in WSJ was reversed there is a sizable possibility that what happened to Black Clover would happen to MHA early on. You'd actually be suprised what some people would do heck Fairy tale was still bought even though most readers agreed that it had gotten bad so theres your *insert series example* it probably mainly has to do with people wanting to finish the collection just because they started collecting it so might as well finish it.

I didn't know that Deku is an orphan, hated by the whole world for being different, has demon powers, a Sasuke boyfriend who betrays everyone (inb4 that also happens in the next chapter of BC), a Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself for the village against a giant demon and a new Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself against Obito.
Alos I'd actually be surprised if BC survived for more than 10 chapters in this scenario. Who would read Naruto 2.0 while Naruto is still running?

 

[Koi Kage]

I didn't know that Deku is an orphan, hated by the whole world for being different, has demon powers, a Sasuke boyfriend who betrays everyone (inb4 that also happens in the next chapter of BC), a Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself for the village against a giant demon and a new Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself against Obito.
Alos I'd actually be surprised if BC survived for more than 10 chapters in this scenario. Who would read Naruto 2.0 while Naruto is still running?

A MC who was believed to never amount to anything just like Asta proves people wrong by gaining series breaking power, because plot, and joins *insert* group to help people again like Asta has seen magic shadows related to the power, think Bijuu, same as Asta, and to cap it off teacher for lack of a better wording is dead again just like Asta now doesn't that sound like naruto? Also Asta himself doesn't have demon powers he cannot use them on his own the powers come from his grimoire take that away and he's got nothing unlike Naruto who can still preform jutsu even without Kurama

 

[Doughboy]

Personally I did like Fullbringer but it kinda hits you once Rukia stabbed Ichigo of how pointless it was. Also did dungeon arc give bc another boost with latest volume? This arc I admit I haven’t enjoyed it much other from golden’s dawn appearance.

 

[TheEnhancedExe]

Haikyuu!! managed to be a bottom dweller for a while and even placed last in ToC several years ago. Let's blame EiC too.



So, quality chapter = higher ToC position? By that logic, BC should be cancelled after 10 chapters then? Your opinion about how much quality that chapter doesn't mean Japanese readers whom send the vote agreed with it.

So I just went through all TOCs since Haikyuu was first ranked until August last year when they started ranking it lower. It was last place one single time back in 2013. And it only placed worse than 10th place two times including the one time it was last, both were back to back in 2013, I think around the 1 year anniversary. Doesn't look to me like it ever was a bottom dweller tbh.

From 2015 to August 2017, it usually ranked top 5 probably 70-80% of the time. Around August 2017, both MHA and Haikyuu suddenly started ranking lower. What happened in August 2017? Shounen Jump got a new editor-in-chief. Problem solved.

About what you labeled as "quality chapter". I said "the more well a new series does, the higher it ranks". That has got nothing to do with how good the quality of the chapter itself is since that's subjective. If a chapter of a new manga gets a certain amount of votes, they try to push it. As BC survived, it obviously must've had a good amount of votes, otherwise it would've been cancelled by now.

I think Togashi stated recently in an interview that if your manga doesn't get a certain amount of votes, they decide to cancel it.

 

[101nemesis]

I said it could be argued either way about whether it was the half way point or not I personally think it was but I could see how somone would think other wise. Taste in something is subjective depending on who you ask I hated Naruto with a white hot intensity of the sun but enjoy a series that some say is a clone, I personally don't see how its any more similar to Naruto then Bleach is to Yu Yu Hakashou but its whatever. Also both series had vastly different starts and time frames from when they first appeared in WSJ MHA, while I'd consider just as Naruto like as Black Clover is considered, didn't recieve nearly as bad a backlash from its debut as Black Clover which hindered it growth early on I know I've made this arguement before but lets say the order of when they first started in WSJ was reversed there is a sizable possibility that what happened to Black Clover would happen to MHA early on. You'd actually be suprised what some people would do heck Fairy tale was still bought even though most readers agreed that it had gotten bad so theres your *insert series example* it probably mainly has to do with people wanting to finish the collection just because they started collecting it so might as well finish it.

This makes no sense. MHA was not criticized because it's first chapter had fantastic art that really complimented the setting of the story, great non-cringy characters in All Might, Deku and Bakugou with each distinctive characterization (which is something so many new series that try to succeed lack) and most importantly was emotionally relatable to readers who've been told they cannot aspire to be something (even by their own parents) no matter how much they work for it if they don't have the natural talent.
Not one person considered this similar to Naruto in any form or manner at that point. It's when future school training arcs came in that people brought up the naruto comparison.

BC on the other hand was cringy for those who criticized it, used cliche plot elements, uninteresting main characters and legit seemed like a rehash of Naruto's origin story. I don't think many had an issue with the art though so that was a plus.

 

[Franz]

I didn't know that Deku is an orphan, hated by the whole world for being different, has demon powers, a Sasuke boyfriend who betrays everyone (inb4 that also happens in the next chapter of BC), a Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself for the village against a giant demon and a new Magic Emperor Hokage who sacrificed himself against Obito.

Nothing, but you can not block a discussion by talking about a particular manga, eh?

For the last time, if you want to complain or talk badly about Black Clover, you have a special section. In addition, many of the things you said are also spoilers (and also clearly inaccurate but it is not appropriate to talk about it here)....

Alos I'd actually be surprised if BC survived for more than 10 chapters in this scenario.

Not so absurd is survived just because the Jump was in the lean period and allowed him to build a fan base. I was debuting today I doubt he would have broken through.

Who would read Naruto 2.0 while Naruto is still running?

What ? Did I miss something ? I tought that Naruto ended 4 years ago...

 

[nonowa]

Rankings are slightly less relevant until every new series starts being ranked; with Hunter X Hunter, Juju, Noah's and Ziga this week we had 4 extra series without a ranking.

 

[ShenGao]

Nothing, but you can not block a discussion by talking about a particular manga, eh?

For the last time, and you want to complain or talk badly about Black Clover, you have a special section. In addition, many of the things you said are also spoilers
(and also clearly inaccurate but it is not appropriate to talk about it here)....

Not so absurd is survived just because the Jump was in the lean period and allowed him to build a fan base. I was debuting today I doubt he would have broken through.


What ? Did I miss something ?

I can block a "discussion" with you, because I don't want to "discuss" with you, because you don't know how to "discuss" something. I gave up on that after I showed you how BC's sales weren't getting a boost as fast as WT, SnS, MHA and other manga, but all you said was "No." That's not how a discussion goes.
And you are the prime candidate who gets triggered everytime anybody just mentions BC.

 

[101nemesis]

Oh shit, Ice is here.
I'm out of this discussion. xD

 

[xAsum0x]

A MC who was believed to never amount to anything just like Asta proves people wrong by gaining series breaking power, because plot, and joins *insert* group to help people again like Asta has seen magic shadows related to the power, think Bijuu, same as Asta, and to cap it off teacher for lack of a better wording is dead again just like Asta now doesn't that sound like naruto? Also Asta himself doesn't have demon powers he cannot use them on his own the powers come from his grimoire take that away and he's got nothing unlike Naruto who can still preform jutsu even without Kurama

If Asta can willingly use a demons power and transform he has a demon power. It is what it is

 

[Franz]

I can block a "discussion" with you, because I don't want to "discuss" with you, because you don't know how to "discuss" something. I gave up on that after I showed you how BC's sales weren't getting a boost as fast as WT, SnS, MHA and other manga, but all you said was "No." That's not how a discussion goes.
And you are the prime candidate who gets triggered everytime anybody just mentions BC.

What are you talking about ?

It was established pages and pages ago that:

1) It is useless to waste pages talking about a specific manga because there are special sections (and your post just talks about the manga, so if you want to complain about doing it)

2) Above all had established no spoilers, and you have made two beautiful big, congratulations

I do not understand why you mention the sales when the speech does not suit us anything.

And they are not "triggered" by the fact that you speak badly about Black Clover, but by the fact that your post:

1) It has nothing to do with the topic

2) Is full of inaccuracies.

3) Does free and unnecessary spoiler.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

Oh shit, Ice is here.
I'm out of this discussion. xD

Why ?

As long as you discuss civilly you can stay. I do not understand your attitude and if you think you're having fun, well you're not at all.