Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Konja9]

One question, when we see the Daily Shoseki ranking for day 2?

I think we can really know more about the reception of Samurai 8 after we see that.

 

[Kolbe]

@Buranchi hey, what about giving a prize for the people that are right about S8 sale on the first week poll. Makes the discussion but more fun/comedic rather than serious judging, especially whens about S8..

What kind of prize? Idk if that's viable at all

Does anyone know if there have been any reactions on that speech on homosexuality in Platinum End? Or is that just the mainstream opinion in Japan right now?

What happened in the manga, if you mind explaining?

Quite fuk'd up how "supposed fans"....enjoy lots of great moments,heartfelt emotions and great relationships in a story only to disregard it all because said writer "let you down".

I personally think writers need a break...cause you cant please everyone.

Question is....are there any perfect stories from cover to end?

There are a lot of stories that are perfect from cover to end, but not that much in Jump I guess.

Is this not art?
Does one create art from/for all to enjoy but most importantly to fulfill oneself?


True artist does not worry about such things...otherwise I believe he wouldn't try again"to create"

No fella who wants to make "art" just for the sake of art would go to Shonen Jump, the most mainstream and commercial magazine in Japan

Also, it's just a impression of mine or some new users joined the thread because of the S8 talk? Welcome

 

[savethecat]

S8 seems have been already axed lol since it's scans of the latest chapters ain't coming till now when it should be here 2 days earlier.

The amount of time fan Edited Manga groups decide to translate a chapter has no correlation to when itll get axed though.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

Also if you want to create real "art" that are not constraint with pleasing readers for commercial success, then weekly shounen jump is not the place for you. Weekly schedule demands constant content every week, and got instance feedbacks from readers. Those responses force authors to alter their vision in order to make their work be as appealing as possible to the broadest general populace. Jump is not the place for rebellious authors who dare to clash with the audience to keep their artistic integrity. The fact that Kishi went back to jump show that's he is not looking forward to those high art things.
Hell, when he decided to go along with his editors with that bombastic pr, he definitely struct for the broad Jump readers. Thus, I don't know how can any of you think Kishi shouldn't/won't compromise and pander towards general low-attention span Jump readers.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

Dude, not sure if it's your intention but are you implying Japaneses are all hivemind who buy stuff because businessmen told them to. They are no different from you or me, just a random person looking for interesting stuffs to read. It's their personal freedom to choose what to read, to purchase and directly make it a bestseller.

Not speaking on S8 or anime/manga specifically. But Hiveminds legitimately do exist in media

 

[Brandish μ]

Actually, regarding your first point, it seems to the opposite, if my discussions with JP fans along with going through Jump Matome say anything. The first couple of chapters had a largely mixed reception, but around Ata's introduction reception started getting steadily worse before it eventually became "That manga 5ch likes to mock".

Do you have sources for this? Not sure I'm following, but it's just a few fans and you talking about it? And from which group was S8 received as 'mixed'; and is there a source for this?

There are new rules which generally cover the expectation of sources. It does not explicitly include 'hearsay', but the additional 'etc' allows some agility for staff around dealing with citation. And for this thread such claims with minimal backing can derail discussion.

 

[Tamil]

Though remember that comment from him? I always got the sense that it was meant to be a short-term thing, with him just having fun with a mishmash of ideas before starting up a more mainstream serialization. Especially since it was a monthly series in Jump. And I wanna say it did 1 million copies over the 3 volumes? But I'm most likely misremembering (if that info even exists lol).

2.2 million*

 

[Rain Spectre]

Do you have sources for this? Not sure I'm following, but it's just a few fans and you talking about it? And from which group was S8 received as 'mixed'; and is there a source for this?

There are new rules which generally cover the expectation of sources. It does not explicitly include 'hearsay', but the additional 'etc' allows some agility for staff around dealing with citation. And for this thread such claims with minimal backing can derail discussion.

Here's how Jump Matome users voted on their feelings for each chapter.

Spoiler

Chapter 2 (1 doesn't have a voter, for some reason):

Chapter 5:

Chapter 7 (Introduction of Ata):

Chapter 10 (Ata attacks):

Chapter 12 (Series got an LCP):

Chapter 14 (Hachimaru's father dies):

Chapter 16 (end of prologue):

Numbers continue to teeter out from there. While obviously I can't call it an 100% accurate representation, it is demonstrative of online opinion I think.

 

[TJQ15]

Here's how Jump Matome users voted on their feelings for each chapter.

Spoiler

Chapter 2 (1 doesn't have a voter, for some reason):

Chapter 5:

Chapter 7 (Introduction of Ata):

Chapter 10 (Ata attacks):

Chapter 12 (Series got an LCP):

Chapter 14 (Hachimaru's father dies):

Chapter 16 (end of prologue):

Numbers continue to teeter out from there. While obviously I can't call it an 100% accurate representation, it is demonstrative of online opinion I think.

Do they just list percentages or do they also list how many people voted?

 

[Rain Spectre]

Do they just list percentages or do they also list how many people voted?

Just the percentages, unfortunately. That's part of why I can't call it 100% accurate. The comments sections are quite active though with 100s of comments every chapter, so I'd assume it's not tiny, though.

 

[Aeneas]

2.2 million*

Damn, even better.

 

[Franz]

The major reasons for S8 being a failure lies mostly with the readers.

Failure?

 

[Rain Spectre]

It is just me, or is it almost tradition since the Modern Era begun for every three hits in Jump that we get a series which is pushed as one for months only to not stick for one reason or another?

Think of it, we had Black Clover, Yuuna and Kimetsu alongside Samon, then Neverland, WNL and Stone alongside Robot x Laserbeam, and now Act-Age, Jujutsu and Chainsaw alongside Samurai 8.

It's a weird coincidence, if anything.

 

[savethecat]

Most the series listed aside from RxL actually were/are successful series in their own right though.
And we still don’t know what S8’s ultimate fate will be

 

[pamuchi]

One question, when we see the Daily Shoseki ranking for day 2?

I think we can really know more about the reception of Samurai 8 after we see that.

I think tomorrow

 

[tirakai]

There's a few different reasons returning veterans might fail.

- could be that they've planned things out long term but don't give much consideration on how to make it fun at the beginning, since they assume their name will get them past the shaky early period either way (like how Kishi filled the first two volumes of Samurai 8 with infodumps without putting much effort into making it a fun start figuring people will give enough support anyway to get to the later parts he actually cares about)

- could be they wanted to return with something but already did their dream series, so are just lumping some unused or previously rejected ideas together (Hungry Marie feels that way to me, it's a collection of random side ideas that aren't really linked together well and have no real core focus)

- hype backlash of course is a thing too, it's hard to live up to expectations of a former face of the magazine

- editors reining them in less is probably part of it too, from what someone posted a few pages ago it sounds like Naruto was a very heavily editor-driven series early on, so I wonder if Samurai 8 is what happens if Kishi's allowed to just do whatever (perhaps we'll find out later)

- could be their ideas for what people will enjoy are now dated or cliche and not suited to current readers

- or they just plain got lucky the first time, making the right series at the right time, JK Rowling for example I think is the #1 most successful author of all time but nothing she's done past Harry Potter has had any impact at all

 

[Rain Spectre]

Most the series listed aside from RxL actually were/are successful series in their own right though.
And we still don’t know what S8’s ultimate fate will be

No, you didn't get what I said correctly. I meant that, for every three hits we got (as in the successful series I listed), we got one Jump pushed as a success only for it to fail.

And Samon absolutely was pushed by Jump to be a new comedy hit after it became clear it had a fanbase, it just didn't work out due to weak sales (20k range).

Sesuji wo Pin?

Was Straighten Up ever pushed as a series like Samon was? Samon if I recall correctly even got merch, while Straighten Up seems like a cult hit which Jump couldn't quite figure out due to the situation in the magazine at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

 

[Nemesis]

There's a few different reasons returning veterans might fail.

- could be that they've planned things out long term but don't give much consideration on how to make it fun at the beginning, since they assume their name will get them past the shaky early period either way (like how Kishi filled the first two volumes of Samurai 8 with infodumps without putting much effort into making it a fun start figuring people will give enough support anyway to get to the later parts he actually cares about)

- could be they wanted to return with something but already did their dream series, so are just lumping some unused or previously rejected ideas together (Hungry Marie feels that way to me, it's a collection of random side ideas that aren't really linked together well and have no real core focus)

- hype backlash of course is a thing too, it's hard to live up to expectations of a former face of the magazine

- editors reining them in less is probably part of it too, from what someone posted a few pages ago it sounds like Naruto was a very heavily editor-driven series early on, so I wonder if Samurai 8 is what happens if Kishi's allowed to just do whatever (perhaps we'll find out later)

- could be their ideas for what people will enjoy are now dated or cliche and not suited to current readers

- or they just plain got lucky the first time, making the right series at the right time, JK Rowling for example I think is the #1 most successful author of all time but nothing she's done past Harry Potter has had any impact at all

From the interview we got on Samurai 8 editor on Mangaplus, he was only credited with the manga so I really think he's a newbie. If not as editor, at least on Jump.

 

[Rain Spectre]

From the interview we got on Samurai 8 editor on Mangaplus, he was only credited with the manga so I really think he's a newbie. If not as editor, at least on Jump.

Looked through that interview and wow did this answer not age well...

 

[supercow297]

Looked through that interview and wow did this answer not age well...

Damn... I feel really bad for this guy

 

[savethecat]

No, you didn't get what I said correctly. I meant that, for every three hits we got (as in the successful series I listed), we got one Jump pushed as a success only for it to fail.

And Samon absolutely was pushed by Jump to be a new comedy hit after it became clear it had a fanbase, it just didn't work out due to weak sales (20k range).



Was Straighten Up ever pushed as a series like Samon was? Samon if I recall correctly even got merch, while Straighten Up seems like a cult hit which Jump couldn't quite figure out due to the situation in the magazine at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Samon lasted a year+ and we have no clue how the series did in polls, nor do we know Jump’s expectations for the series. For all we know it could have been a comedy hit for a period

 

[Rain Spectre]

The Taguchi interview is actually an interesting read if you look between the lines. Taguchi spends practically the whole interview talking about how genius Kishimoto and Ohkubo are and how daring Kishi in particular is due to taking on such a project, but he gives zero details about his own creative input as editor and gets ultra-vague when asked about himself, giving general comments about the editorial and then changing the subject back to Kishimoto and Naruto when he can. It's pretty clear that the guy gives very little if any input into the actual series, meaning that S8 is basically completely unedited. He even outright says that no one at Jump can tell him no, which suggests to me no one has the courage to actually object to what he's doing (which makes sense, virtually all of editorial would've been people who grew up with Naruto).