One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

Roger vs Whitebeard is similar to Kaido vs Big Mama is some ways. two top tier pirates fight it to but end up partying...

I like how Oda has kept it vague regarding Roger and whitebeard in terms of strength. Its hard to argue that one is stronger than the other.

Wasn't it stated they were equals right from the start?

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

We getting off topic, so can't continue if gets deleted later. Do it in another thread or just walk away from this debate you not helping yourself in. Sanji is great swimmer and show it in past arcs. Show me panel of Zoro fighting top tier threat under water that isn't Hody or Kraken. Do it in appropriate thread. Not here.

Nah he never did. Just cheated to win and address about it.

He then preceded to blackmail about Zeff and gave up the fight because of it. Your using headcannons, not facts.

• I dont need to walk away from debate. You might like to do that, but i enjoy discussions, hence why i become a user here anyway....to discuss one piece things.
• Fighting top tier or fodder underwater doesnt affect speed. Fact is zoro moved faster than a fishman. If you want to argue this, then u also need to give proof that sanji wins against top tier fighters underwater. Burden of proof is still on you
• Niji was holding sanji so that gives sanji more time. Niji actually could just kick sanji instantly, niji even said that sanji is slow
• Back on topic, judge easily bested sanji so judge is quite strong, near vergo level

 

[Luke Beifong]

Back on topic, judge easily bested sanji so judge is quite strong, near vergo level

Near Vergo level? Are you putting a guy that didn’t even have Haki in pair with Vergo? Man, you go very far now.

Judge uses gadgets and tricks to fight, if he fights Sanji in a fair match, he won’t last long for sure. All attacks of Judge barely hurt Sanji, he block Judge spear with no problem...

Judge is far away from beginning a opponent to Sanji, he only poses as a “treat” for Sanji for all the emotional burden the two of them have. In truth, any of Sanji brothers is a worth opponent in NW standards... At Max they’re in the same level of the gladiators in Dressrosa and Judge is even weaker.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Near Vergo level? Are you putting a guy that didn’t even have Haki in pair with Vergo? Man, you go very far now.

Judge uses gadgets and tricks to fight, if he fights Sanji in a fair match, he won’t last long for sure. All attacks of Judge barely hurt Sanji, he block Judge spear with no problem...

Judge is far away from beginning a opponent to Sanji, he only poses as a “treat” for Sanji for all the emotional burden the two of them have. In truth, any of Sanji brothers is a worth opponent in NW standards... At Max they’re in the same level of the gladiators in Dressrosa and Judge is even weaker.

Raid suit gives stat boost on judge.
Haki is not absolute power, luffy beat the boa sisters who have advanced CoA and CoO
Judge manages to still hit sanji with diable jambe.....
Sanji brothers is on par with sanji, ichiji probably even stronger than sanji

 

[hokageji]

Wasn't it stated they were equals right from the start?

was it? i wasn't aware. but my point is that Whitebeard's strongest pirate wasn't only because Roger is dead.

 

[Fox666]

was it? i wasn't aware. but my point is that Whitebeard's strongest pirate wasn't only because Roger is dead.

Buggy said Whitebeard was the only man to fight equally to Roger

Where are people getting the idea Whitebeard was called the strongest man/pirate when Roger was still alive? Is it from the Vivre Card databook?

That seems to contradict the manga itself, which implies the title is also because Whitebeard was equal to the Pirate King

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

@nik87 Told you the ability to destroy the world is the Gura Gura no mi and not something strength related.
QED, Blackbeard is the man with the ability to destroy the world.

Also you seem to ignore the part where it's said that WSM does not mean being the actual strongest in power level terms. It's just a stupid title. Kaido has a better one and he's still weaker than Roger AFAIK. Mihawk has an even less impressive title since all it tells us is that he's (currently) the most skilled character with a sword.

Here's a better guage for the strongest. Since Roger pulled off death before WB, he is the stronger of the 2. Also WB pulled off death before Kaido, hence, WB is the stronger one. Whoever dies first in this arc between Kaido and Big Mom gets the claim to who is stronger.
Terrible Logic right?

Guess it's that time of the year

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2020 ---

Wasn't it stated they were equals right from the start?

Here's what was stated from the start:

WEALTH, FAME, POWER. The man who had it all!

Guess who?
It's no longer a secret. His name: GolD Roger

 

[hokageji]

Where are people getting the idea Whitebeard was called the strongest man/pirate when Roger was still alive? Is it from the Vivre Card databook?

That seems to contradict the manga itself, which implies the title is also because Whitebeard was equal to the Pirate King

I didn't mean WB had the title when Roger was alive.... we know he was surely after Roger's death and was it that Roger's death gave him the title of strongest man alive? You see what i mean?
Buggy's words prove that Whitebeard is the only person strong enough to fight Roger, and i guess he is referring to the time they fought for 3 days. So atleast in terms of one on one, they were equals.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Not really. Screaming in pain is not what I call ignoring attack back to back and Sanji was using Base Kicks at that. If he was using more power, PO would probably die or out for a long time.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2020 ---

Magellan situation was different case and he fights unique style compare to Zoro. Wrong example man.

No he doesn't he faints man. That is fact. His Haki isn't unstoppable if you faint from one stab.

Sanji was head-on attack and Sanji while nerf block it unlike Zoro who take one hit and he is down. Don't screw things up out of insecurities as shown man.

You cant prove that sanji wasnt using CoA, he probably used haki on page1 since zoan has strong body...we know sanji base kick is not enough for steel body like CP9 so sanji need to use haki against page 1 who is stronger than blueno

I never said zoro has unstoppable haki. In fact, i didnt mention zoro at all in my previous post. Smh you are so obsessed and insecure against zoro, funny to see you get so worked up about a fictional character

Sanji broke his legs to block vergo attacks, thats not nerf block, that means barely able to block. This is another example of your biased argument

 

[King Moe]

You cant prove that sanji wasnt using CoA, he probably used haki on page1 since zoan has strong body...we know sanji base kick is not enough for steel body like CP9 so sanji need to use haki against page 1 who is stronger than blueno

I never said zoro has unstoppable haki. In fact, i didnt mention zoro at all in my previous post. Smh you are so obsessed and insecure against zoro, funny to see you get so worked up about a fictional character

Sanji broke his legs to block vergo attacks, thats not nerf block, that means barely able to block. This is another example of your biased argument

Yes he has in many occasions as shown with Daifuku, blocking bullets from Orochi, able to damage DF users, etc.. He has COA already stated and can go next lvl.

Sanji was able to beat Jabra later in arc though, so that takes away your point he can't kick steel as he surpassed it.

Nope, Zoro fainted last time I check. His Haki isn't unstoppable. He isn't flexible with his Haki like Luffy and Sanji are and that's why he was hype tool in past 4 Wano fights he was in.

Sanji was nerf and still made Vergo run away and can't do his mission. Idk what you mean there as he stop him. You get your biased out and stop making Z vs S when someone critic's Zoro and praise Sanji.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Yes he has in many occasions as shown with Daifuku, blocking bullets from Orochi, able to damage DF users, etc.. He has COA already stated and can go next lvl.

Sanji was able to beat Jabra later in arc though, so that takes away your point he can't kick steel as he surpassed it.

Nope, Zoro fainted last time I check. His Haki isn't unstoppable. He isn't flexible with his Haki like Luffy and Sanji are and that's why he was hype tool in past 4 Wano fights he was in.

Sanji was nerf and still made Vergo run away and can't do his mission. Idk what you mean there as he stop him. You get your biased out and stop making Z vs S when someone critic's Zoro and praise Sanji.

No offence but is english your secondary language? You always seemed to fail to understand even simple points from my post. I am just curious, not even trying to insult here.

Now i will address your points,
I never said sanji cant bypass steel defence, but he needs diable jambe to do that, base kick sanji is weak, which explains why sanji uses diable jambe a lot. Page 1 is an ancient zoan, he definitely can take heavy attacks

Dont get why you keep bringing the faint thing, killer is a supernova and use a huge scythe, you literally can kill a person with 1 hit of that, and zoro was stabbed deep. Actually it was crazy strong for zoro to survive that. You also forget how zoro still managed to beat killer even after being heavily wounded like that

Vergo ran coz he pursued law, he was winning against sanji. Vergo was not even serious since he didnt use his baton.
The irony owns you sadly. I wasnt talking about zoro, you did, and now you get angry and bash at me for making arguments based from facts. No need to get so worked out for every critics on sanji, just discuss in a good manner like the other users.

 

[nik87]

@nik87 Told you the ability to destroy the world is the Gura Gura no mi and not something strength related.
QED, Blackbeard is the man with the ability to destroy the world.

Also you seem to ignore the part where it's said that WSM does not mean being the actual strongest in power level terms. It's just a stupid title. Kaido has a better one and he's still weaker than Roger AFAIK. Mihawk has an even less impressive title since all it tells us is that he's (currently) the most skilled character with a sword.

Here's a better guage for the strongest. Since Roger pulled off death before WB, he is the stronger of the 2. Also WB pulled off death before Kaido, hence, WB is the stronger one. Whoever dies first in this arc between Kaido and Big Mom gets the claim to who is stronger.
Terrible Logic right?

Guess it's that time of the year

Well, it was never stated that Blackbeard had such power. Makino eating Gura Gura No Mi would certainly not have the power to destroy the world.
Blackbeard isnt WSM like Whitebeard was, which is part of the power to destroy the world. WSM is strength related, it literally has the word Strongest.
It isnt a stupid title, Oda never backed that up. "Strongest doesnt mean actually strongest in power lvl terms"... What does it mean then, enlighten me?
Whether prime Kaido is weaker than Roger, we will never know, he is the current strongest and his and Roger's prime never overlapped so...

No, Mihawk's title isn't any less impressive. That is headcanon. The Japanese kanji says nothing about skill but about strength. The only mystery here is who is stronger, WSC or WSS but it leans towards Kaido since 1vs1 portrayal.

 

[jaymizzo]

Well, it was never stated that Blackbeard had such power. Makino eating Gura Gura No Mi would certainly not have the power to destroy the world.
Blackbeard isnt WSM like Whitebeard was, which is part of the power to destroy the world. WSM is strength related, it literally has the word Strongest.
It isnt a stupid title, Oda never backed that up. "Strongest doesnt mean actually strongest in power lvl terms"... What does it mean then, enlighten me?
Whether prime Kaido is weaker than Roger, we will never know, he is the current strongest and his and Roger's prime never overlapped so...

No, Mihawk's title isn't any less impressive. That is headcanon. The Japanese kanji says nothing about skill but about strength. The only mystery here is who is stronger, WSC or WSS but it leans towards Kaido since 1vs1 portrayal.

Worlds strongest swordsman, as the title clearly states, is someone who is the most skilled with a sword. Your headcannon is that WSC, WSM, PK are equal titles to that of what Mihawk has... Its not. Mihawk wanted to test himself against a Yonko, not that he knew he could take on a Yonko and win because he is the strongest swordsman. You can go on to present as much word salad as you want, doesn't change the title

About the vivre card you posted, you should have actually read what it said. Don't pick out things that only further your argument and ignore the glaring disclaimer added after.

You still haven't answered this burning question that's been asked, how can you be the strongest yet have an equal you have never bested?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Makino eating Gura Gura No Mi would certainly not have the power to destroy the world.

Wrong bud. Anyone with the Gura Gura no mi automatically has the power to destroy the world. Be it Makino, Momo, Orochi, Usopp, Spandam, or any weakling u can think of.
If u've witnessed an earthquake or Tsunami IRL then u'd know what it does to places and how terrifying it is whenever it strikes.

WB is a very strong man with a cheat of a DF which a coward in Blackbeard now possesses - making him a bigger cheat when we factor his already sufficiently destructive Yami Yami no mi.

PS: Read the Data book u posted. The answers are staring glaringly in your own eyes.

 

[nik87]

Wrong bud. Anyone with the Gura Gura no mi automatically has the power to destroy the world. Be it Makino, Momo, Orochi, Usopp, Spandam, or any weakling u can think of.
If u've witnessed an earthquake or Tsunami IRL then u'd know what it does to places and how terrifying it is whenever it strikes.

WB is a very strong man with a cheat of a DF which a coward in Blackbeard now possesses - making him a bigger cheat when we factor his already sufficiently destructive Yami Yami no mi.

PS: Read the Data book u posted. The answers are staring glaringly in your own eyes.

So you think Makino has the same performance with Gura as the Whitebeard?
Let Makino eat the Gum fruit and lets see her pull off G2 or G4...
We know very well that the fruit is only as good as the user that wields it.

Worlds strongest swordsman, as the title clearly states, is someone who is the most skilled with a sword. Your headcannon is that WSC, WSM, PK are equal titles to that of what Mihawk has... Its not. Mihawk wanted to test himself against a Yonko, not that he knew he could take on a Yonko and win because he is the strongest swordsman. You can go on to present as much word salad as you want, doesn't change the title

About the vivre card you posted, you should have actually read what it said. Don't pick out things that only further your argument and ignore the glaring disclaimer added after.

You still haven't answered this burning question that's been asked, how can you be the strongest yet have an equal you have never bested?

I will get back to you as soon as I get the required info that proves your wrong about that "skilled" claim.
And I already answered the "burning question" - the same way Mihawk can have WSS while having Shanks as a rival. Having a rival in no way says that you are equal to them.

 

[jaymizzo]

So you think Makino has the same performance with Gura as the Whitebeard?
Let Makino eat the Gum fruit and lets see her pull off G2 or G4...
We know very well that the fruit is only as good as the user that wields it.


I will get back to you as soon as I get the required info that proves your wrong about that "skilled" claim.
And I already answered the "burning question" - the same way Mihawk can have WSS while having Shanks as a rival. Having a rival in no way says that you are equal to them.

Mihawk is not Shanks rival, GTFOH.

The guy is competing with the likes of WB, Kaidou and BM and commands so much more respect and fear. No one significant bat an eye at Mihawk, the whole Marineford shat itself at the sight of the RHP.

You forget that Mihawk wanted to test himself, no confidence in taking him on, but test himself against WB who is a Yonko, someone Shanks had absolutely no fear of.

Nik-chan, The question is, how can you be the strongest yet never ever have been able to beat your rival, are you implying that Mihawk has never won against Shanks?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

So you think Makino has the same performance with Gura as the Whitebeard?
Let Makino eat the Gum fruit and lets see her pull off G2 or G4...
We know very well that the fruit is only as good as the user that wields it.

Say that to Blackbeard who had 0 training with the Gura Gura no mi on his first acquisition of the fruit yet the first thing he did was cause a Tsunami, almost endangering Sabaody archipelago.

Flaunting a DF is not the same as mastering it hence why Blackbeard required time to train his newly acquired fruit when challenged by Shanks.
He (when he first ate it) may not be able to perform wonders with it like WB but that does not change the fact that he possesses the ability to destroy the world.

By your logic Sabo shouldn't be able to make a fire when he first ate the Mera Mera no mi.
Again wrong! Sabo (at the time of acquiring the fruit) may not have the same mastery as the previous wielder Ace, but he'll still burn you since that's what the Mera Mera no mi does. And guess what? He burned Burgess and would've burned Fujitora as well - if the Admiral wasn't so damn strong.
Creating flames or quakes has got nothing to do with df mastery unlike gears of the Gomu Gomu (it's called "gears" for a reason mate).
And last I remember, creating a quake is quite simple. All you need do is;
- put out your hand
- make a pose and voila: "You've just shattered the air and caused a quake".

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2020 ---

Mihawk is not Shanks rival, GTFOH.

The guy is competing with the likes of WB, Kaidou and BM and commands so much more respect and fear. No one significant bat an eye at Mihawk, the whole Marineford shat itself at the sight of the RHP.

You forget that Mihawk wanted to test himself, no confidence in taking him on, but test himself against WB who is a Yonko, someone Shanks had absolutely no fear of.

Nik-chan, The question is, how can you be the strongest yet never ever have been able to beat your rival, are you implying that Mihawk has never won against Shanks?

I think Nik is holding on to the past far too much.

Mihawk was Shanks' rival.

Old Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido are Shanks' rivals. By extension, Shanks is also Luffy's rival - once he defeats Kaido. (This is where Yonkos and PKs belong).

Mihawk is Vista's rival and will soon be Zoro's. (This is where swordsmen belong and all those vying for WSS).

 

[nik87]

Mihawk is not Shanks rival, GTFOH.
The guy is competing with the likes of WB, Kaidou and BM and commands so much more respect and fear. No one significant bat an eye at Mihawk, the whole Marineford shat itself at the sight of the RHP.
You forget that Mihawk wanted to test himself, no confidence in taking him on, but test himself against WB who is a Yonko, someone Shanks had absolutely no fear of.
Nik-chan, The question is, how can you be the strongest yet never ever have been able to beat your rival, are you implying that Mihawk has never won against Shanks?

You are right. Mihawk is not Shanks' rival, Shanks is Mihawk's rival.
What is he competing at with them? How many decades they will not see each other?
Marineford shat itself at sight of RHP? Tell that to Kizaru and Aokiji who ignored them, lol.

Mihawk is one person. Of course you cant compare the threat of a single person to entire Yonko crew... No matter how strong one man is, two top tiers will deal with him. Dealing with the entire Yonko crew requires a lot more than two top tiers, especially crew which is said to have big names among commanders.
Mihawk didnt want to test himself, he is the only one who noticed that WB's strength has gotten weaker , he wanted to test Whitebeard, lol.
Simply, because Oda give you the title of the strongest. Whether he ever won against Shanks or not, Oda gave Mihawk the title. No need for mental gymnastics but instead accept the information Oda has provided.

Say that to Blackbeard who had 0 training with the Gura Gura no mi on his first acquisition of the fruit yet the first thing he did was cause a Tsunami, almost endangering Sabaody archipelago.
Flaunting a DF is not the same as mastering it hence why Blackbeard required time to train his newly acquired fruit when challenged by Shanks.
He may not be able to perform wonders with it like WB when he first ate it but that does not change the fact that he possesses the ability to destroy the world.
By your logic Sabo shouldn't be able to make a fire when he first ate the Mera Mera no mi.
Again wrong! Sabo (at the time of acquiring the fruit) may not have the same mastery as the previous wielder Ace, but he'll still burn you since that's what the Mera Mera no mi does. And guess what? He burned Burgess and would've burned Fujitora as well - if the Admiral wasn't so damn strong.
Creating flames or quakes has got nothing to do with df mastery unlike gears of the Gomu Gomu (it's called "gears" for a reason mate).
And last I remember, creating a quake is quite simple. All you need do is;
- put out your hand
- make a pose and voila: "You've just shattered the air and caused a quake".

Blackbeard is incomparably stronger than Makino, lmao.
Without physical power behind the user, Gura is as weak as it gets, like any other fruit on a weak opponent.
I didnt say that Sabo shouldnt be able to make fire, that's your assumption, Sabo is physically superior to Ace.
Creating flame and quakes has nothing to do with strength but how big the effect of those flames and quakes will be has everything to do with how strong the user is. Gomu pistol on baby Luffy isnt as powerful as Gomu pistol on adult Luffy just like quakes behind Makino and Blackbeard arent as powerful as they were on Whitebeard.

 

[Fox666]

Without physical power behind the user, Gura is as weak as it gets, like any other fruit on a weak opponent.
I didnt say that Sabo shouldnt be able to make fire, that's your assumption, Sabo is physically superior to Ace.
Creating flame and quakes has nothing to do with strength but how big the effect of those flames and quakes will be has everything to do with how strong the user is. Gomu pistol on baby Luffy isnt as powerful as Gomu pistol on adult Luffy just like quakes behind Makino and Blackbeard arent as powerful as they were on Whitebeard.

Some fruits grant god-like powers. I.e. the guy on Dressrosa said if he could eat the Mera Mera no Mi, it would change his life. The Gura Gura no Mi would make anyone capable of destroying an island.

Of course, an weakling could easily be taken down by surprise by any bounty hunter with a gun...

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Without physical power behind the user, Gura is as weak as it gets, like any other fruit on a weak opponent.

Back this up!

Caesar is as weak as they come yet he's a very capable df user.
Physical strength plays no role in the ability to utilise a DF. Come on! everone knows this.

Sugar is weak af yet her DF may as well be tagged OP.
Sugar's sister is physically weak as well yet she could have won against the future PK by her DF alone.

Gura Gura no mi will remain the most destructive DF regardless of its user stop grabbing at straws.

Sabo is physically superior to Ace.

So? Does that make him a better Mera user?
Physical strength is physical strength. DF powers are DF powers.
They don't work in tandem mate.
A character's combat ability depends on multiple factors of which includes physical strength, DF ability, Haki, intelligence/IQ, waepons, etc.
One may lack in some and have others.

Bottom line - physical strength plays no role in utilising a DF ability.

Creating flame and quakes has nothing to do with strength but how big the effect of those flames and quakes will be has everything to do with how strong the user is.

Nope.
I can tell you that Sabo in his fight with the Marines at Dressrosa created more flames than Ace (with years of experience with the same fruit) did in Marineford.
Meanwhile, Ace in his fight with Blackbeard created the hugest fires we have ever seen from a Mera user.
It's all down to experience, not strength.

Again strength means nothing where df is concerned.

What matters is experience with the fruit. Ace flew with Luffy in his flames and made sure his fire didn't hurt Luffy.
Sabo at Dressrosa cannot do the same. He would most likely burn Luffy in the same circumstance due to inexperience with the fruit.

Blackbeard caused more damage than WB in the few seconds he showed-off the Gura. Yet it was his inexperience with the fruit, not physical strength, that led to that.

An inexperienced Gura user could sink the world and themselves along with it if they are not careful of how they use it. This is what almost happened with Blackbeard in Marineford.
View media item 23166
View media item 23167

Bottom line: Experience is what separates a good DF user from a bad one. Not strength.