One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Web_Pirate]

Yeah.

Pirate empress comes in 4th IMO when it comes to strongest female pirates we've seen.

You seem quite confident about it, however, I disagree. I think Boa is stronger. In any case, I bet we will see these two clash. Afterall, Boa's beauty is legendary and I doubt Devon would pass on an opportunity like that. Hancock will support the Grandfleet at some point anyway.

I don't think Katarina is that strong. I dont think she is top 3 of the BB pirates. I think shiiryu, burgess and wolf/pizzaro is end game top 3.

Well how do you rate the shichibukai strenth overall? I rate like this:

Say a character is at YC1 level (marco, beckman, king, shiiryu, katakuri), . That means that if the character fought all YC1 all out (one at a time) - the character would win 1, draw 3 and loose 1 fight. This is without the character getting stronger each fight ofc. Like luffy would.

1. Mihawk (Low admiral level - He would win 4 or 5 fight vs. the YC1 and fight even or loose vs. the admirals)
2. Wevil (low YC1 level. He would loose 2-3 fight against YC1 -> he is not prime WB level, but only "a young WB")
3. Hancock (YC2 level - could win a close fight against smoothie and thus is the 2nd strongest women in series)
4. Conscious Kuma (YC3 level)
5. Jinbei (Just below YC3 level - loose 2-4 and maybe win 1 vs YC3).
6. Doflamingo (Just below YC3 level - loose 2-4 and maybe win 1 vs YC3).
7. Crocoboy (Veteran level (Snack/Perospero/Owen/Daifuki) - i think his fight with luffy is a wrong estimate of his real strength from what we saw at MF)
8. Moria (Low veteran level. Would loose to Snack/Perospero)
9. Buggy (No level. Has a gigantic potential if he learn haki and awakens DF).

Law is rising in strengh but he did loose bad to doflamingo, so that puts him around croco for now. BB is also rising in strengh and is the strongest old and current shichibukai now.

Anyway - what do you guys think?

I would put Kuma a level above Boa, at least if we were to pit them against each other. Her devil fruit probably wouldnt work on him.

Also, I would put Moria above Crocodile. He may be lacking in skill, but he's smart and strategic. So is Croc, dont get me wrong, but Moriah is rarely alone and is stupidly tough. I dont see him losing to Perospero, due to doppelman switch. Snack we know nothing about aside that his a sword?

 

[Silvers Horse]

You seem quite confident about it, however, I disagree. I think Boa is stronger. In any case, I bet we will see these two clash. Afterall, Boa's beauty is legendary and I doubt Devon would pass on an opportunity like that. Hancock will support the Grandfleet at some point anyway.



I would put Kuma a level above Boa, at least if we were to pit them against each other. Her devil fruit probably wouldnt work on him.

Also, I would put Moria above Crocodile. He may be lacking in skill, but he's smart and strategic. So is Croc, dont get me wrong, but Moriah is rarely alone and is stupidly tough. I dont see him losing to Perospero, due to doppelman switch. Snack we know nothing about aside that his a sword?

Perospero then

I do love Moriah like you (i think we are few in numbers). Its hard to know his level really. He was powerfull once, but now he completely lack motivation. He has a strong DF and could perhabs rise to YC3 level with the right motivation. If he fight with dobbelman like Zed from league of legend he would be very strong, but if he only use dobbelman to run i count it as a loss.

 

[Shasha23]

1. Mihawk (Low admiral level - He would win 4 or 5 fight vs. the YC1 and fight even or loose vs. the admirals)

You do know Mihawk is stronger than Fujitora(an admiral) Shanks (a yonko) but then you go on to say he loses vs YC1 and admirals????
Can you elaborate on this to help us understand

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

You do know Mihawk is stronger than Fujitora(an admiral) Shanks (a yonko) but then you go on to say he loses vs YC1 and admirals????
Can you elaborate on this to help us understand

Nope we don't. We've seen nothing noteworthy from Mihawk yet.

But showtime is bound to happen.

 

[Holt]

Do you think we will ever get to see or hear of a stamina feat involving the SHs?
For example, Ace vs Jinbei and Jack vs Inu/Neko which lasted 5 days and Aokiji vs Akainu which was 10. The SHs haven't fought that long, and even though the battles get finished fast (defeating their opponents), often they're too tired/weak to seemingly have continued much longer. Naturally I get showing a battle that long will be tough but even if part of all of it was offpanel, it would be quite a feat. I feel the Monster trio can fight for days, but I'm not entirely sure if they can keep up a high diff fight against an evenly matched opponent for that long. Or perhaps it's more like they grow so fast they eventually overcome the opponent in much less time?

 

[Web_Pirate]

Perospero then

I do love Moriah like you (i think we are few in numbers). Its hard to know his level really. He was powerfull once, but now he completely lack motivation. He has a strong DF and could perhabs rise to YC3 level with the right motivation. If he fight with dobbelman like Zed from league of legend he would be very strong, but if he only use dobbelman to run i count it as a loss.

It was Marineford that tarnished his reputation when it comes to powerlevel, not so much Thriller bark. He was quite comfortable handling the strawhats with doppelman/brickbat tricks until he became too greedy and essentially defeated himself. But the biggest problem lies in blatant disregard of his past and the reason why he grew weaker. Also, bear in mind that Moriah's arc comes right after one of the most popular and best selling arcs of One Piece, Water 7 and Enies Lobby which had mystery, drama, tragedy, character and world/lore building, all written and told in masterful way. The antagonists seemed super powerful at the time and Lucci was everything readers were hoping for.

Now, Thriller bark wasn't by any means a bad arc,( at least in my opinion) it had a few things going for it, namely the reverse scenario with monster trio having to be rescued by others as well as a cool, horror theme that some liked, and some didn't. However, I think it lacked the impact because there was too much comedy even for one piece, right after a dark arc like Enies Lobby.

People probably expected for Moriah to be super powerful and got dissapointed with his reveal. Couple it with a peculiar character design( onion man lol) , a specific theme of the arc, Moriah's own lack of motivation, I can see why they would underestimate him and ignore his backstory. What you dont like, you wont bother with.

Now, I dont think Moriah will ever get to be the same guy as he was on his prime. That time is over. But he will still play a meaningful role in the wano story. With the right motivation and new nakama, he should have no problem crushing officers the likes of Oven, Daifuku or Perospero. He's a lot better than that.

 

[Silvers Horse]

You do know Mihawk is stronger than Fujitora(an admiral) Shanks (a yonko) but then you go on to say he loses vs YC1 and admirals????
Can you elaborate on this to help us understand

Sure. I didn't say he loose against the YC1 i said he beat them all. Maybe he fight even with Marco. I think he could fight dead even with the weakest admirals (fujitora) and loose (after a long fight) to the strongest (akainu/kurzan).

But you talk about the title of the worlds strongest swordsman. There seem to be 2 fractions of OP fans on the matter. Some believe the strongest swordsman have the highest technical skill of the sword but cannot beat every swordsman out there, and others (like you I guess) believe Mihawk can beat every living sword yielder in the OP universe. I am part of the first fraction.

I have not yet seen any solid proof that the first or the second fractions are right, so either could be right imo. The title worlds strongest swordsman can be intepreted both ways and it all comes down to what you think really.

I know he is a rival of Shanks but all we know was that they fought before Shanks lost his arm and this was several years before shanks became a yonkou, so we don't know how strong both of them were at the time.

 

[Shasha23]

Sure. I didn't say he loose against the YC1 i said he beat them all. Maybe he fight even with Marco. I think he could fight dead even with the weakest admirals (fujitora) and loose (after a long fight) to the strongest (akainu/kurzan).

But you talk about the title of the worlds strongest swordsman. There seem to be 2 fractions of OP fans on the matter. Some believe the strongest swordsman have the highest technical skill of the sword but cannot beat any swordsman out there, and others (like you I guess) believe Mihawk kan beat every living sword yielder in the OP universe. I am part of the first fraction.

I have not yet seen any solid proof that the first or the second fractions are right, so either could be right imo. The title worlds strongest swordsman can be intepreted both ways and it all comes down to what you think really.

I know he is a rival of Shanks but all we know was that they fought before Shanks lost his arm and this was several years before shanks became a yonkou, so we don't know how strong both of them were at the time.

YC have never been shown to be able to compete with yonko/admiral level opponents, you implying Marco can hang with Mihawk is impossible.

You as part of the first faction had been mistaken by his title that's why you all claimed he was called Worlds Greatest Swordsman and trying to imply the title is based on skill not strength, but you were all wrong since his real title is Words Strongest Swordsman meaning its the title of the strongest not the most skilled, even the Vivre card and recent statements support this.

It stated Mihawk was already famous back then and that Shanks became well know from being able to fight Mihawk.

 

[Silvers Horse]

YC have never been shown to be able to compete with yonko/admiral level opponents, you implying Marco can hang with Mihawk is impossible.

You as part of the first faction had been mistaken by his title that's why you all claimed he was called Worlds Greatest Swordsman and trying to imply the title is based on skill not strength, but you were all wrong since his real title is Words Strongest Swordsman meaning its the title of the strongest not the most skilled, even the Vivre card and recent statements support this.

It stated Mihawk was already famous back then and that Shanks became well know from being able to fight Mihawk.

I respect you opinion completely, but I think you have a strong opinion and hints instead of some solid proof. The first fraction could be wrong, but it is indeed possible for Marco to go even with Mihawk. We just don't know. Greatest or strongest. Potato potato imo. Its the interpretation of "swordsman" that devide that two fractions of fans -> is it the strongest swordsman in terms of power or technique.

I could be a matter of slashing the worlds strongest slash (which we know Mihawk has from MF), but not a matter of beating all swords yielders, hence a power related but sword technical measure. Say for instance that Mihawk fight a swordsman who are less powerfull but have crazy future sight. The less powerfull swordsman could win the fight due to haki and not swordskill.

Interesting about the vivre card - what does it say?

Sure he was famous. But Crocodile/Sabo/Katakuri/etc. are also famous and they are not the strongest anything.

Just out of interest - just how strong do you believe Mihawk is? Is he stronger than Shanks but weaker than Kaido? Is he the strongest of all? Can he handle all the admirals one v one? Can he beat Rayleigh? Can he beat Big Mom (who also yields a swords, but is not a swordman per say)

 

[M3J]

Do you think we will ever get to see or hear of a stamina feat involving the SHs?
For example, Ace vs Jinbei and Jack vs Inu/Neko which lasted 5 days and Aokiji vs Akainu which was 10. The SHs haven't fought that long, and even though the battles get finished fast (defeating their opponents), often they're too tired/weak to seemingly have continued much longer. Naturally I get showing a battle that long will be tough but even if part of all of it was offpanel, it would be quite a feat. I feel the Monster trio can fight for days, but I'm not entirely sure if they can keep up a high diff fight against an evenly matched opponent for that long. Or perhaps it's more like they grow so fast they eventually overcome the opponent in much less time?

I hope we won't get to see it because it sounds boring. If anything, there'd be hours-skip. Wouldn't be surprising if Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji manage to fight for two days straight, and that eventually becomes easy enough for them. Luffy's stamina seems to suffer primarily because he does too much, so if he masters Gear 4 well enough, he should be able to fight for weeks against tough opponents.

 

[Holt]

I hope we won't get to see it because it sounds boring. If anything, there'd be hours-skip. Wouldn't be surprising if Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji manage to fight for two days straight, and that eventually becomes easy enough for them. Luffy's stamina seems to suffer primarily because he does too much, so if he masters Gear 4 well enough, he should be able to fight for weeks against tough opponents.

I don't think it would be boring really. On the contrary, a lot of fights already drag for quite some time. We could have a text saying they've been fighting for x days with the same effect imo

 

[Shasha23]

I respect you opinion completely, but I think you have a strong opinion and hints instead of some solid proof. The first fraction could be wrong, but it is indeed possible for Marco to go even with Mihawk. We just don't know. Greatest or strongest. Potato potato imo. Its the interpretation of "swordsman" that devide that two fractions of fans -> is it the strongest swordsman in terms of power or technique.

I could be a matter of slashing the worlds strongest slash (which we know Mihawk has from MF), but not a matter of beating all swords yielders, hence a power related but sword technical measure. Say for instance that Mihawk fight a swordsman who are less powerfull but have crazy future sight. The less powerfull swordsman could win the fight due to haki and not swordskill.

Interesting about the vivre card - what does it say?

Sure he was famous. But Crocodile/Sabo/Katakuri/etc. are also famous and they are not the strongest anything.

Just out of interest - just how strong do you believe Mihawk is? Is he stronger than Shanks but weaker than Kaido? Is he the strongest of all? Can he handle all the admirals one v one? Can he beat Rayleigh? Can he beat Big Mom (who also yields a swords, but is not a swordman per say)

True maybe people like Marco, Katakuri and King can hang with yonko/admirals and give them a run for their money.

His title like that of Whitebeard and Kaido are that they are the absolute strongest in their field, the funny thing is people don't go around saying someone was stronger than Whitebeard or that Kiado is not the strongest creature, but when it comes to Mihawk people get upset that he is the strongest only because they hate the fact that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, I'm not saying your one of those people but 98% of the people who downplay Mihawk hate the fact he is stronger than Shanks and come up with all these ridiculous statements to downplay Mihawk.

Vivre card says Mihawk is waiting for Zoro to surpass Shanks so they can fight again, it also reaffirms the status of Mihawk as the strongest swordsman and also confirms Shanks as a swordsman.

The novel states that Mihawk was infamous even in Rogers time and that people only started paying attention to Shanks from him dueling Mihawk, their duels elevated Shanks's status to the point of him eventually being called a yonko.

IMO it is truly hard to gauge the strength of the 3 strongest people (Mihawk, Whitebeard and Kaido)[as per their titles]
I mean was Whitebeard truly the strongest even though Kiado is the strongest creature, Kaido is known as indestructible but we have seen a swordsman damage him, for me its more like this:
Akainu> Mihawk > Kaido > Big Mum > Shanks > Blackbeard

People like Rayleigh, Garp and Sengoku cant compete with the people above at this point of their lives

 

[thedude]

Do you think we will ever get to see or hear of a stamina feat involving the SHs?
For example, Ace vs Jinbei and Jack vs Inu/Neko which lasted 5 days and Aokiji vs Akainu which was 10. The SHs haven't fought that long, and even though the battles get finished fast (defeating their opponents), often they're too tired/weak to seemingly have continued much longer. Naturally I get showing a battle that long will be tough but even if part of all of it was offpanel, it would be quite a feat. I feel the Monster trio can fight for days, but I'm not entirely sure if they can keep up a high diff fight against an evenly matched opponent for that long. Or perhaps it's more like they grow so fast they eventually overcome the opponent in much less time?

I actually wish Oda wouldn't have those 5 day fights. It's dumb and doesn't make anyone sound strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

True maybe people like Marco, Katakuri and King can hang with yonko/admirals and give them a run for their money.

His title like that of Whitebeard and Kaido are that they are the absolute strongest in their field, the funny thing is people don't go around saying someone was stronger than Whitebeard or that Kiado is not the strongest creature, but when it comes to Mihawk people get upset that he is the strongest only because they hate the fact that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, I'm not saying your one of those people but 98% of the people who downplay Mihawk hate the fact he is stronger than Shanks and come up with all these ridiculous statements to downplay Mihawk.

Vivre card says Mihawk is waiting for Zoro to surpass Shanks so they can fight again, it also reaffirms the status of Mihawk as the strongest swordsman and also confirms Shanks as a swordsman.

The novel states that Mihawk was infamous even in Rogers time and that people only started paying attention to Shanks from him dueling Mihawk, their duels elevated Shanks's status to the point of him eventually being called a yonko.

IMO it is truly hard to gauge the strength of the 3 strongest people (Mihawk, Whitebeard and Kaido)[as per their titles]
I mean was Whitebeard truly the strongest even though Kiado is the strongest creature, Kaido is known as indestructible but we have seen a swordsman damage him, for me its more like this:
Akainu> Mihawk > Kaido > Big Mum > Shanks > Blackbeard

People like Rayleigh, Garp and Sengoku cant compete with the people above at this point of their lives

...wait, what? Stronger than Shanks how? lol, you like to make things up, i notice a pattern...

Shanks wasn't elevated to being called a Yonko because of his duels with Mihawk. In fact, he wasn't close to a Yonko when he lost his arm, and that is the last time he dueled Mihawk. His becoming a Yonko is literally all after he stopped fighting Mihawk. It's for his feats AFTER. From a very recent Chapter, Shanks has only been a Yonko for 6 years! He lost his arm around 15 years ago storyline time, so he became a Yonko 9 years later. 9 years after he last dueled with Mihawk. https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-957-page-14.html

He's so strong that when he showed up, with the Marines, Blackbeard, and the Warlords all present, he offered to fight them all, and none took him up on that. No one said "gosh, that''s the guy who isn't as strong as Mihawk, we better watch out". Mihawk is strong, but he is not stronger than Shanks.

Shanks has one ship. Big Mom felt she needed the Giant race on her side to take him on. Her crew dwarfs his. She isn't hesitant to take him on because 20 years ago he used to be duel Mihawk to draws.

 

[Holt]

The novel states that Mihawk was infamous even in Rogers time and that people only started paying attention to Shanks from him dueling Mihawk, their duels elevated Shanks's status to the point of him eventually being called a yonko.

Tbh I've never seen this. Shanks is a yonko because he could duel Mihawk?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

I actually wish Oda wouldn't have those 5 day fights. It's dumb and doesn't make anyone sound strong.

It's mainly a stamina feat. I agree it definitely would not be fun to watch, I just think it would be interesting even if it's just said in passing/offpanel

 

[Pirate Queen]

Tbh I've never seen this. Shanks is a yonko because he could duel Mihawk?

He's basing it on an UNCONFIRMED translation of Ace's Novel.

The truth is their are multiple meaning to what was said and until the official translation comes out it should be taken with a grain of salt.

He ignores that this is from Ace's perspective that he knows Shanks from his duels with Miahwk not that Shanks is only known for his duels with Mihawk in general and that's how he became a Yonko. That is never stated.

Certain people just like to push the Shanks < Mihawk narrative but it's still unsubstantiated.

 

[thedude]

Tbh I've never seen this. Shanks is a yonko because he could duel Mihawk?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

It's mainly a stamina feat. I agree it definitely would not be fun to watch, I just think it would be interesting even if it's just said in passing/offpanel

He's making up the Shanks thing. From the recent chapter, 957, the marines say Shanks only became a Yonko 6 years ago, which is 9 years after he stopped dueling with Mihawk. His duels have literally nothing to do with the WG and the other pirates recognizing him the way they do.

 

[M3J]

I don't think it would be boring really. On the contrary, a lot of fights already drag for quite some time. We could have a text saying they've been fighting for x days with the same effect imo

Luffy vs. Cracker dragged on for too long, and kind of Luffy vs. Katakuri too. I wouldn't mind a chapter or two of them fighting at the start, some in middle, and the rest at the end instead of chapters per hour or day or whatnot, yanno? Have it be more like Ace vs. Jinbei.

Tbh I've never seen this. Shanks is a yonko because he could duel Mihawk?

Given who's claiming this, I'd say it's horse crap.

 

[Shasha23]

Tbh I've never seen this. Shanks is a yonko because he could duel Mihawk?

One Pice novel A

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

He's basing it on an UNCONFIRMED translation of Ace's Novel.

The truth is their are multiple meaning to what was said and until the official translation comes out it should be taken with a grain of salt.

He ignores that this is from Ace's perspective that he knows Shanks from his duels with Miahwk not that Shanks is only known for his duels with Mihawk in general and that's how he became a Yonko. That is never stated.

Certain people just like to push the Shanks < Mihawk narrative but it's still unsubstantiated.

Typical of you, translations are out and the only differences are just better wording, the general meaning is the same.

But its not surprising of you Mihawk hater to deny his feats and hype

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020 ---

He's making up the Shanks thing. From the recent chapter, 957, the marines say Shanks only became a Yonko 6 years ago, which is 9 years after he stopped dueling with Mihawk. His duels have literally nothing to do with the WG and the other pirates recognizing him the way they do.

His duels with Mihawk earned him infamy as people were shocked someone was capable to fight Mihawk, but its your right to keep being ignorant I don't blame you!

 

[Pirate Queen]

One Pice novel A

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

Typical of you, translations are out and the only differences are just better wording, the general meaning is the same.

But its not surprising of you Mihawk hater to deny his feats and hype

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020 ---

His duels with Mihawk earned him infamy as people were shocked someone was capable to fight Mihawk, but its your right to keep being ignorant I don't blame you!

Prove it! Post an official translation.


You lie constantly as it pertains to Zoro/Mihawk... just like you lied by saying Oda gave the Anime team the full Wano story he planned.

Dude, come on you better than that.

You claim stuff but never link proof. You talk nonsense. It's easy to say I'm a Mihawk hater, but proving it is much harder. Never once have I "hated" on Mihawk.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020 ---

Waiting for the proof

 

[Silvers Horse]

One Pice novel A

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2020 ---

His duels with Mihawk earned him infamy as people were shocked someone was capable to fight Mihawk, but its your right to keep being ignorant I don't blame you!

Infamy can be alot of things. We have no clue if Mihawk was the WSS 15 years ago. He could have been though.

There's is no Mihawk hating from me. I love him. I just find him slightly less strong than you, but no biggy.

IMO it is truly hard to gauge the strength of the 3 strongest people (Mihawk, Whitebeard and Kaido)[as per their titles]
I mean was Whitebeard truly the strongest even though Kiado is the strongest creature, Kaido is known as indestructible but we have seen a swordsman damage him, for me its more like this:
Akainu> Mihawk > Kaido > Big Mum > Shanks > Blackbeard

People like Rayleigh, Garp and Sengoku cant compete with the people above at this point of their lives

But if you put Mihawk and Akainu over WSC how does that work with your logic? It this because a humans are not creatures? That would be an intrepretation, just like I intrepet WSS ;D

I have Kaido>Shanks>Big Mom>Akainu>=Kurzan>Kizaru>Blackbeard>Fujitora=Mihawk, but BB will soon pass the admirals if he hasn't already.

I agree with the senior citizens, but they are not far behind imo. Above or equal to the YC1 I would say.