Discussion One Piece Power level Discussion Thread

M3J

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Still Sanji did most of the easy work of him. Plus if so then Zoro never truly defeat Pica on his own since Elizabetho and Ormbulus help him out too. Both honestly haven't gotten full 1 vs 1 and serious fight since pre-timeskip thinking on it. Wano though looks to deliver on something big Strawhats though as might be Enies Lobby of NW.
He asked them both to help mainly because Pica chose to go after Rebecca and the others. This wasn't because Zoro was weak or outmatched, but because Pica's devil fruit allowed him to get to Rebecca quickly. Had Pica stayed to fight Zoro, then Zoro likely would not have asked for help nor needed it. You can consider Zoro having defeated Pica on his own because Pica was not able to give Zoro an actual challenge other than Slash-A-Mole.
 

Lexusflame

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We are comparing it vs Pica's golem. It is useless despite being the highest DC feat we have in OP.
Destroying the golem isnt a solution since KP can destroy it easily and is far above anything that Luffy has.
As I said, just because it was easy for Zoro it doesnt make it easy for everyone else...
It's easy for anyone AROUND Zoro's level, don't get it twisted.
 

Lexusflame

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So Yonko Commander?
If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant
 

Sachsenhesse

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If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant
He wasnt. For his position he actually overperformed. From the combatants we have seen so far fight in the NW, only the Yonkous, Katakuri and Cracker, Doflamingo probably can defeat him, others will have a reallyyy hard time. Even Marco and Jozu are a bad matchup, since both lack real Aoe Attacks to corner him in a area like dressrosa.
 

hokageji

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If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant
I think Pika's fruit allows him to assimilate with stone, rather than create one, correct me if i am wrong. So Pica did have a geographical advantage.

Now even for Zoro, he had to wait till the huge Golem seperated from the mainrock for Zoro to get a challenge. I think being a swordsmen did help Zoro there, allowing him to cut and thereby limit Pica's assimilating ability.

But having said that, dont think you need to be a swordsmen itself, i am sure anyone with a cutting ability, like Doflamingo or Mr1 would be able to tackle him too. The key is isolation, and in the scenario shown, Zoro seemed to be the most advantegous ability comparing others in that scenario. The other person i can think of is Crocodile, turning all the stone to sand.
 

Lexusflame

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He wasnt. For his position he actually overperformed. From the combatants we have seen so far fight in the NW, only the Yonkous, Katakuri and Cracker, Doflamingo probably can defeat him, others will have a reallyyy hard time. Even Marco and Jozu are a bad matchup, since both lack real Aoe Attacks to corner him in a area like dressrosa.
Absolute Pica wank lol jk jk. Good points! If I can rebuttal tho! Pica can't assimilate into stone smaller than his real body. We've seen this I'd his golem was destroyed, he couldn't escape into a pebble of say Luffy used Gatling Elephant gun to destroy the earth to dust. He would have to escape into the ground, which is why Zoro have to get thrown into the air and seperate him from the ground.

Literally all you need to do is seperate him from the ground and reduce the remaining pieces to where they are too small enough to trap him.

The question needs to be, can Luffy reduce big Rocks into smaller rocks? Yes he can. Anyone with sufficient power could.

Seperate Pica from the ground and it's an instant win because he can't run.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

When you break a rock, two halves form correct, (or multiple, depending how you do it cutting vs breaking) All anyone has to do is attack the ground beneath the golem (or slice it) so that 2 halves form (one in the air, ground, or scattered) PIca is going to have to go into 1 of the pieces big enough to house his escape... If Zoro cut Pica and Pice went into the BOTTOM part of his golem Zoro would have been brought back to square one and the fight continued.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

I think Pika's fruit allows him to assimilate with stone, rather than create one, correct me if i am wrong. So Pica did have a geographical advantage.

Now even for Zoro, he had to wait till the huge Golem seperated from the mainrock for Zoro to get a challenge. I think being a swordsmen did help Zoro there, allowing him to cut and thereby limit Pica's assimilating ability.
Cutting the stone or smashing it leads to the same result... Pica can't escape in a pebble so as long the rock is destroyed he is wrecked.

Pica isn't complicated. Zoro figured out how to do it and he isn't the smartest fights of the SH's as his strength alone more than makes up for needing to come up with any kind of strategy and yet... Zoro came up with 5 against Pica lol
 

nik87

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It's easy for anyone AROUND Zoro's level, don't get it twisted.
That's not how it works. Being around Zoro's level doesnt give you the same stats and combat style that Zoro has.
King's Punch is the best example, higher DC than anyone else and yet ineffective. Pica is far bigger trouble than people realize.
You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.
If it only were that easy lol... Saying it isnt equal to doing it.
 

Sachsenhesse

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Literally all you need to do is seperate him from the ground and reduce the remaining pieces to where they are too small enough to trap him.
Yes all you need to do is: Lift a friggin mountain.

Punches destroy and make damage, but dont do enough AoE Dmg to actually separate the rocks. You need a cutting attack, or atleast something similar. Current Luffs could handle him thanks to futuresight(same as Katakuri), but Dressrosa Luffy was at disadvantage. (Which is another parallel to Arabasta, where Luffy wouldnt stand a chance against Mr.1)
 

Lexusflame

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Yes all you need to do is: Lift a friggin mountain.

Punches destroy and make damage, but dont do enough AoE Dmg to actually separate the rocks. You need a cutting attack, or atleast something similar. Current Luffs could handle him thanks to futuresight(same as Katakuri), but Dressrosa Luffy was at disadvantage. (Which is another parallel to Arabasta, where Luffy wouldnt stand a chance against Mr.1)
Zoro didnt have to lift a freaking mountain... lifting isnt needed. Like I said, separating him from the ground and destroy the rock is all it takes, which is what Zoro did. It's not rocket science. As for Luffy being unable to defeat Mr. 1 is absolute nonsense and been proven to be ridiculous over and over again since Zoro wankers started the debate to put Mr. 1 over Crocodile.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

That's not how it works. Being around Zoro's level doesnt give you the same stats and combat style that Zoro has.
King's Punch is the best example, higher DC than anyone else and yet ineffective. Pica is far bigger trouble than people realize.

If it only were that easy lol... Saying it isnt equal to doing it.
If King's Punch was imbued with Haki it would have been a one shot if he hit Pica dead on. It wasn't so it's just a powerfully physical punch.

If Zoro slashed Pica without haki it would be just as useless. Zoro using haki was the difference maker, not the attack itself.
 

King Moe

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He asked them both to help mainly because Pica chose to go after Rebecca and the others. This wasn't because Zoro was weak or outmatched, but because Pica's devil fruit allowed him to get to Rebecca quickly. Had Pica stayed to fight Zoro, then Zoro likely would not have asked for help nor needed it. You can consider Zoro having defeated Pica on his own because Pica was not able to give Zoro an actual challenge other than Slash-A-Mole.
Same with Sanji. He didn't ask Jimbei to help him. He choose to go in while he fought him.

True, but how would Zoro since Pica keep hide and seek before he can strike him. Feel sooner or later he would need help.
 

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If King's Punch was imbued with Haki it would have been a one shot if he hit Pica dead on. It wasn't so it's just a powerfully physical punch.
How exactly would haki had helped? His destruction was top notch at a scale it cant be made any better, since he obliterated the stonearm. Pika isnt the mountain, he only controls the mountain.

If you punch Mr.3 Waxwall and you destroy it, it wont receive any more damage, when you add haki to the mix.
 

Lexusflame

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How exactly would haki had helped? His destruction was top notch at a scale it cant be made any better, since he obliterated the stonearm. Pika isnt the mountain, he only controls the mountain.

If you punch Mr.3 Waxwall and you destroy it, it wont receive any more damage, when you add haki to the mix.
Pica hides "within" his stone. Haki helps locate his actual body on top of it being obvious as fuck because the stone almost instantly begins to move

All you have to do it trap him. That it. He can't go into stone physically smaller than his body or he has no choice but to flee the stone and that's when he gets wrecked...
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Zoro can instantly tell between stone and living stone and uses that, slicing smaller and smaller pieces until he gets trapped . Like I said it isnt rocket science
 

M3J

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Same with Sanji. He didn't ask Jimbei to help him. He choose to go in while he fought him.

True, but how would Zoro since Pica keep hide and seek before he can strike him. Feel sooner or later he would need help.
Okay but he didn't need Jinbei anyway.

Zoro figured out that he can get to Pica by slicing the stones until it was too small for Pica to escape. Doesn't need help for that.
 

King Moe

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Okay but he didn't need Jinbei anyway.

Zoro figured out that he can get to Pica by slicing the stones until it was too small for Pica to escape. Doesn't need help for that.
That's what I am saying. They were playing soccer ball with him. Jimbei choose to get involve, but Sanji didn't need the help.

Unless he goes underground or somewhere with more stone and dense. It would be tiresome on Zoro if he didn't get help.
 

M3J

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But I'm saying that's unrelated as Jinbei was unnecessary, while Zoro only needed help in order to save the others as he wasn't as fast as Pica was traveling through stone. Otherwise Zoro would have won by himself, he didn't need help regardless.
 

nik87

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If King's Punch was imbued with Haki it would have been a one shot if he hit Pica dead on. It wasn't so it's just a powerfully physical punch.

If Zoro slashed Pica without haki it would be just as useless. Zoro using haki
First, how do you know that King's Punch doesnt have haki applied? Looks like nothing but haki to me, after all, it can one shot a Yonko.

Second, destroying the golem doesnt destroy real Pica, regardless if haki is used or not. CoO obviously doesn't help unless u can reach him beneath all that stone. For example, Luffy who has CoO, attacked the head, location where Pica wasnt.

All you need to do is trap him, it's not rocket science... How are people with low DC going to trap him when the guy with highest DC cant? Clean separation from the ground is required, that's why Zoro has lifted the mountain, to cut off the connection with the ground and that's something punchers like Luffy and Elizabello cant do.
Fujitora is the only one who could have dealt with Pica besides Zoro since he has shown the ability to lift the entire golem up in the sky but even that only works if it is fast enough before Pica realizes that he is trying to lift him up.
 

M3J

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What if it takes a while to charge because whats-his-name is gathering as much haki as he can into his fist?
 

Lexusflame

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First, how do you know that King's Punch doesnt have haki applied? Looks like nothing but haki to me, after all, it can one shot a Yonko.

Second, destroying the golem doesnt destroy real Pica, regardless if haki is used or not. CoO obviously doesn't help unless u can reach him beneath all that stone. For example, Luffy who has CoO, attacked the head, location where Pica wasnt.

All you need to do is trap him, it's not rocket science... How are people with low DC going to trap him when the guy with highest DC cant? Clean separation from the ground is required, that's why Zoro has lifted the mountain, to cut off the connection with the ground and that's something punchers like Luffy and Elizabello cant do.
Fujitora is the only one who could have dealt with Pica besides Zoro since he has shown the ability to lift the entire golem up in the sky but even that only works if it is fast enough before Pica realizes that he is trying to lift him up.
Show me the proof it can oneshot a Yonko, because rereading Dressrosa, there is nothing but a rumor it can floor a Yonko... let alone oneshot a yonko. And it's more well known feat is just reducing and enemy fortress to rubble.

0 proof it can one shot a Yonko.

Any attack that can reduce the stones to small enough pieces that Pica can't escape is enough to wreck him.

Zoro himself didn't know that would happen until he actually did it.

So yeah, not rocket science. Zoro was simply lucky Pica didnt escape to the bottom of his golem rather than the top.... that's it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

What if it takes a while to charge because whats-his-name is gathering as much haki as he can into his fist?
It would have to be proven first. The fact that it can't reach Pica's body is proof it's not haki because of it was haki it would have reached Pica, even if it was just shockwaves. That onto of not being address as haki related in a single panel were as much smaller attacks were singled out as being haki related.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Destroying Pica golen from the middle or bottom works just as well as splitting Pica so long as Pica escapes UP and not DOWN. Many attacks are sufficient enough to do it.
 

nik87

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Show me the proof it can oneshot a Yonko, because rereading Dressrosa, there is nothing but a rumor it can floor a Yonko... let alone oneshot a yonko. And it's more well known feat is just reducing and enemy fortress to rubble.

0 proof it can one shot a Yonko.
Any attack that can reduce the stones to small enough pieces that Pica can't escape is enough to wreck him.
Zoro himself didn't know that would happen until he actually did it.
So yeah, not rocket science. Zoro was simply lucky Pica didnt escape to the bottom of his golem rather than the top.... that's it.
Well, that rumor is more hype than any other single attack has. Did you forget the horror it releases? Just look at it, there is nothing alike.

Any attack that can reduce stones to small enough pieces is obviously not enough because that horror of KP isnt enough despite being able to shatter entire stone mountain. Anything that Luffy has in his repertoire is below it, far below it. As I said, it is easier said than done. "Looked easy for Zoro, must be easy for everyone else..."
It would have to be proven first. The fact that it can't reach Pica's body is proof it's not haki because of it was haki it would have reached Pica, even if it was just shockwaves. That onto of not being address as haki related in a single panel were as much smaller attacks were singled out as being haki related.
Haki blast doesnt affect insides, it is penetration that reaches inside. Single punch with all haki put into it does seem to be what King's Punch is, otherwise why be exhausted and unable to use it fully for entire hour? Sounds exactly like what Luffy was experiencing in Dressrosa while being unable to use Haki for 10 minutes... I am 99% sure that KP is a haki blast on an entirely another level.
Destroying Pica golen from the middle or bottom works just as well as splitting Pica so long as Pica escapes UP and not DOWN. Many attacks are sufficient enough to do it.
Yeah but who has the DC and effectiveness to do it? Remember that the highest DC in the verse is ineffective so while people may have the required DC, they may be ineffective just like King's Punch...
 
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