One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

No, I mean even powered up Gear-4-less pre-WCI Luffy, and in all instances, post-timeskip Luffy wins, whether FI Luffy (as we know he can use Gear 4 to end the fight quickly) or current Luffy.

 

[nik87]

Nik has become the new Moe but Zoro Edition, I like both Sanji and Zoro and my opinion, Zoro is slightly above Sanji as of right now, Moe does not agree with that, Just like how Nik won't agree that Luffy is above Zoro. Zoro is strong right now, especially now with Enma, but we have NOT seen him in a real fight, so we cannot put him on a YC level yet. Him or Sanji have not proven themselves to be YC level, yet. Maybe at the end of this arc. Stop making assumptions that they are YC level as of chapter 975. Also Nik, you have no prove that King is stronger than Katakuri. We can't gauge King's levels yet compared to the rest of the YCs.

Aslo M3J, what makes you think Pre-TS Lucci is stronger than Pre-WCI Luffy? Surely, you mean base Pre-WCI Luffy? Not G2, G3, G4? Shit I think Base Luffy at Fishmen Island is stronger than Enies Lobby Lucci.

The assumption I am making is that Zoro who came back to Sabaody was already YC1 and this arc will show if my assumption is correct or not.
Don't know if King>Katakuri? Let's see:
Lethality-King
DC-King
Physical strength-King
Defense-King
Durability-King
Toughness-King
Recovery-King
AoE-King if he can spread fire and use flying slashes
Speed-? Katakuri?
Evasion-Katakuri due to FS
And that is all without seeing anything from King and only based on his fruit and being a swordsman so yeah, pretty sure King is on a completely different level.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

The assumption I am making is that Zoro who came back to Sabaody was already YC1 and this arc will show if my assumption is correct or not.
Don't know if King>Katakuri? Let's see:
Lethality-King
DC-King
Physical strength-King
Defense-King
Durability-King
Toughness-King
Recovery-King
AoE-King if he can spread fire and use flying slashes
Speed-? Katakuri?
Evasion-Katakuri due to FS
And that is all without seeing anything from King and only based on his fruit and being a swordsman so yeah, pretty sure King is on a completely different level.

Zoro was yonko tier and needs to nerf his eye and fought at YC1 tier. Otherwise, new world will be too easy for the ultimate god of sword and epithome of gigachad that is zoro

 

[jaymizzo]

The assumption I am making is that Zoro who came back to Sabaody was already YC1 and this arc will show if my assumption is correct or not.
Don't know if King>Katakuri? Let's see:
Lethality-King
DC-King
Physical strength-King
Defense-King
Durability-King
Toughness-King
Recovery-King
AoE-King if he can spread fire and use flying slashes
Speed-? Katakuri?
Evasion-Katakuri due to FS
And that is all without seeing anything from King and only based on his fruit and being a swordsman so yeah, pretty sure King is on a completely different level.

I was gonna ask how you know all this but this just made me realise you are doing your usual thing.

 

[nik87]

Zoro was yonko tier and needs to nerf his eye and fought at YC1 tier. Otherwise, new world will be too easy for the ultimate god of sword and epithome of gigachad that is zoro

Lol I was serious tho look at the pattern of Zoro's fights and consider the information that he didnt grow at all since Sabaody, we still have to see if Enma changed anything.

I was gonna ask how you know all this but this just made me realise you are doing your usual thing.

Come back to that post after we see King's abilities and check how many I got right.

 

[thedude]

I know, I'm saying it's harder than that. Katakuri is a highly capable fighter as well, and his mochi mochi no mi being similar to gomu gomu would be a major challenge. It'd be hard to hurt Katakuri, and his Future Sight is probably still better. Unlike last time, Luffy could win as his willpower is a difference-maker, but I can still see this being pretty close.


But how do we know Katakuri hasn't gotten stronger? How would the fight have gone if Katakuri didn't stab himself as well? Gotta also consider how Katakuri was able to continue fighting despite injuring himself, but then again Luffy was fighting for hours and was in worse shape. Luffy would probably fare much better if/when his Future Sight improves.

First, I'll say that Katakuri only "lost" that fight, he didn't lose it. He could have beaten Luffy a dozen times, but was impressed by the growth, amazed by it really. So in a new fight, a real fight, it would be extremely difficult for Luffy again. I don't doubt he had some growth, but I do doubt he had growth on the level of Luffy since the fight. Luffy now has the future sight that can partially nullify Katakuri's, he has more stamina in his Gear 4 form, and he has the much stronger haki. I think he wins a very tough rematch.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2020 ---

I expected that you will attribute Zoro's power to swinging Enma couple of days at bamboo trees aka:
Zoro's ability without Enma - 0
Zoro's ability with Enma - over 9000!
But you know me better than that, I wont let that slide. You better have something concrete when you claim power-ups and that Zoro trains all the time, because he doesnt, Enma training is first time he was shown doing any training post TS.



You are simply using wrong translations... The same exact SFX:

I'm fairly certain neither of us speak Japanese, and you are using that knowledge to prop up your claim. I guess any tool you can use eh?

 

[nik87]

I'm fairly certain neither of us speak Japanese, and you are using that knowledge to prop up your claim. I guess any tool you can use eh?

No need to be a rocket scientist or to speak Japanese language to see the exact same SFX. I guess any mental gymnastics to avoid the truth?

 

[Fox666]

ぎゅるる (Gyururu)

Sound effect for a growling stomach or a submarine/torpedo

"ぐぎゅるるる!!!" ("Gugyurururu!!!") is also the title of chapter 855

 

[thedude]

No need to be a rocket scientist or to speak Japanese language to see the exact same SFX. I guess any mental gymnastics to avoid the truth?

I didn't see the one on Luffy. I'll note that at the least, that's the first time it's in a speech bubble. Luffy's, Tama's, LinLin's are all outside in no bubbles. So it appears Zoro is saying that, not coming from his stomach. And he does talk about getting injured, and then when he comes to, he talks about his injury being his fault, no mention of fainting due to hunger.

 

[nik87]

I didn't see the one on Luffy. I'll note that at the least, that's the first time it's in a speech bubble. Luffy's, Tama's, LinLin's are all outside in no bubbles. So it appears Zoro is saying that, not coming from his stomach. And he does talk about getting injured, and then when he comes to, he talks about his injury being his fault, no mention of fainting due to hunger.

Oh man, more mental gymnastics...
Doesnt matter if it is in a speech bubble, it is a sound of a gurgling stomach, it shows hunger. He asked for food from Hiyori as repayment for protection before the fight even started and when he woke up Hiyori paid it back by preparing the soup/whatever it was she was making. Nobody says that sound that we see, it is literal sound unless Zoro in that moment is trying to mimic the hunger sound for whatever reason - headcanon.

Zoro talked about his injury being his fault, he didnt say anything about fainting. Injury and fainting are two different things.
Again, it is a hunger SFX, the only reason provided why Zoro fainted. We can either accept what the manga provided or we can turn to mental gymnastics to go around what manga said but without me, I wont entertain it. Why is it a problem to accept manga facts?

 

[thedude]

Not upset that Zoro fainted, it is simply very unlike Zoro. Was he hungry? Possibly but he wasnt starving that we can use that as a reason. Was he eating poisoned stuff and drank poisoned water? Sure, still not a reason to faint. Was the wound serious and did he lose some blood? Sure, still no reason to faint. The bloodloss on TB is incomparable to this. He went from being fine to fainting, whatever the reason. When the wounds are serious they are usually without consciousness for several days while here he's back up within the same day...

Not trying to make excuses for Zoro either but Oda didnt explain the situation. Unless Zoro's tankiness got weaker during time skip this makes no sense and we know that that is not the reason.
The 1 we presented, he passed out from a wound which shouldnt be underestimated but so serious to make Zoro faint out of the blue? I dont buy it. He had his chest sliced up during Baratie and the same day(?) he fought Hatchan and Arlong and he didnt pass out. Even Arlong asked how can he be alive with such wound, not to mention fighting in such state. Zoro's tankiness always defied logic and now we have this. It's not big deal since it didnt affect any fight or anything but why do it in the first place when it is so out of character?

Zoro may have been hungry but it has been established since chapter 3 that he can starve longer than Luffy can and still fight without issue.
The food he ate was poisonous but we saw that the 2 major Baka's among SHs shrug it off like it's nothing while people can die from it.

(btw, this is what you said, lol. those are your words https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/zoro-discussion-thread.3012218/page-17)

 

[nik87]

Not upset that Zoro fainted, it is simply very unlike Zoro. Was he hungry? Possibly but he wasnt starving that we can use that as a reason. Was he eating poisoned stuff and drank poisoned water? Sure, still not a reason to faint. Was the wound serious and did he lose some blood? Sure, still no reason to faint. The bloodloss on TB is incomparable to this. He went from being fine to fainting, whatever the reason. When the wounds are serious they are usually without consciousness for several days while here he's back up within the same day...

Not trying to make excuses for Zoro either but Oda didnt explain the situation. Unless Zoro's tankiness got weaker during time skip this makes no sense and we know that that is not the reason.
The 1 we presented, he passed out from a wound which shouldnt be underestimated but so serious to make Zoro faint out of the blue? I dont buy it. He had his chest sliced up during Baratie and the same day(?) he fought Hatchan and Arlong and he didnt pass out. Even Arlong asked how can he be alive with such wound, not to mention fighting in such state. Zoro's tankiness always defied logic and now we have this. It's not big deal since it didnt affect any fight or anything but why do it in the first place when it is so out of character?

Zoro may have been hungry but it has been established since chapter 3 that he can starve longer than Luffy can and still fight without issue.
The food he ate was poisonous but we saw that the 2 major Baka's among SHs shrug it off like it's nothing while people can die from it.

Ah, my bad, you are trying to make sense of it... Why try to make sense of a plot element? It helped several plot lines go ahead faster, it served a purpose, it doesnt matter in PL feats but you used it in PL for some reason(the guy who fainted to Kamazou cant be YC1/2/3/4/5...).
Unless you refuse it as plot element? Then stick to what manga provides - hunger.

@thedude Just noticed that you quoted me... Was it supposed to help your argument?

 

[Fox666]

Luffy's, Tama's, LinLin's are all outside in no bubbles. So it appears Zoro is saying that, not coming from his stomach.

The speech bubble points to Zoro's stomach, not his mouth.

 

[M3J]

Is there any high caliber swordsman that fights dirty?

 

[nik87]

Is there any high caliber swordsman that fights dirty?

Shiryu?

 

[M3J]

He's the first person I thought of, but I don't remember how he fights dirty, if he does.

 

[Fox666]

Is there any high caliber swordsman that fights dirty?

Killer, Diamante, Pica, Shiryu, Jack, Cracker, Moriah, Big Mom, Shiki, Pedro, Squard, Niji

 

[thedude]

Ah, my bad, you are trying to make sense of it... Why try to make sense of a plot element? It helped several plot lines go ahead faster, it served a purpose, it doesnt matter in PL feats but you used it in PL for some reason(the guy who fainted to Kamazou cant be YC1/2/3/4/5...).
Unless you refuse it as plot element? Then stick to what manga provides - hunger.

@thedude Just noticed that you quoted me... Was it supposed to help your argument?

Dude, i literally never said he can't beat a Commander. I was literally talking about a specific person, Katakuri, who you said Zoro was stronger than. I was saying he clearly wasn't since he can't take the punishment Luffy took, and used his fainting as an example compared to Luffy, who Katakurri skewered. You're the one now changing his beliefs about how and why Zoro fainted, I just brought those receipts .

For the record, I'd love for Zoro and Sanji to grow and each beat a YC this arc. I'm not a weird fanboy like you who only reads the manga for one character, so that I can win silly arguments online!

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2020 ---

He's the first person I thought of, but I don't remember how he fights dirty, if he does.

We haven't seen him fight though, we just assume he is dirty. He was jailed for being too sadistic for Impel Down, which had torture levels. I'm sure with his new invisibility he'll use that, maybe some swordsmen will consider it dirty.

 

[nik87]

I was saying he clearly wasn't since he can't take the punishment Luffy took,

Did you forget Zoro taking Luffy's punishment on top of his own in TB and dwarfing Luffy's endurance?

You're the one now changing his beliefs about how and why Zoro fainted, I just brought those receipts .

My "belief" on why he fainted is clear - plot element while manga fact is hunger. Your belief is Zoro cant handle a stab.

I'd love for Zoro and Sanji to grow and each beat a YC this arc. I'm not a weird fanboy like you who only reads the manga for one character, so that I can win silly arguments online!

I dont care about Sanji, he doesnt exist when it comes to Zoro's power level, literally irrelevant character. It is Sanji fans who cling to Zoro.

 

[jaymizzo]

I dont care about Sanji, he doesnt exist when it comes to Zoro's power level, literally irrelevant character. It is Sanji fans who cling to Zoro.

So you understand how Luffy fans feel each time you cling onto running in circles around Luffy?