One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Yeah, the black Haki was created after the time-skip... but it's still an inconsistency.


Was Mantra retconned into CoO? I don't think so. The clues with Rokushiki were there too.

Perhaps it would be better to say that the author expanded Mantra and some Rokushiki techniques to be widely used.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---

He did:

One Piece Chapter 597 Page 13

Read One Piece Chapter 597 Page 13 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

 

[XXGenesis]

Yeah, the black Haki was created after the time-skip... but it's still an inconsistency.


Was Mantra retconned into CoO? I don't think so. The clues with Rokushiki were there too.

Perhaps it would be better to say that the author expanded Mantra and some Rokushiki techniques to be widely used.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---

He's stationary..I'll find the scan or reference that I'm using memory to state.

Ok. I Lied. I'm not gonna post the scan. It's on the 3 or 3 sentence in the wikia. Blueno says so when he's fighting Luffy. Also none of them move, when they use tekkai.

 

[hokageji]

Sanji knew they would try to kill him, didn't he? So Sanji was ready.

I wonder what would happen if he was not prepared.

I don't think much of Sanji dodging Katakuri, but to say he was prepared isn't accurate. But dodge isn't a good example of his CoO. The way he found Kinemon's body being chewed by the shark in darkness is a way better proof......

I dont think there's enough to show Sanji is significantly greater than Zoro in CoO or vice-versa for that matter.... At best, we can only assume Sanji's CoO is greater than Zoro's and Zoro's CoA is greater than Sanji's because of Oda's statement on their haki specialities, but again, thats a big assumption to make.

I do think Oda will let their haki's flower out to next levels lets wait and see...

 

[thedude]

He's stationary..I'll find the scan or reference that I'm using memory to state.

Ok. I Lied. I'm not gonna post the scan. It's on the 3 or 3 sentence in the wikia. Blueno says so when he's fighting Luffy. Also none of them move, when they use tekkai.

Jabra moved.

 

[Fox666]

He's stationary..

He's not stationary... he's punching. And if you check the panel before, he rotated his body.

He also used here:

 

[XXGenesis]

He's not stationary... he's punching. And if you check the panel before, he rotated his body.

He also used here:

It's very slight movement. Bluno is in motion. Let's agree to disagree here also. It's not like it's a big thing in the manga anymore. I'm just going off what's on the wikia & memory, I cant find a page reference for it.

Difference between Haki & Rokushiki techniques..Is that Haki is Will Power. While Rokushiki is all physical strength. That's their difference

 

[goldb]

I think we have to assume everything pre-timeskip, they were using haki, just Oda hadn't fleshed it out yet so it wasn't shown. Like all the high level fighting had to have it, that's how we've seen everyone fight post-timeskip, so it would be weird for them all to forget in the biggest fight of their lives.

I read somewhere that the reason why we didn't see "black haki" is because as readers, a lot of what we learn is through the protagonist's eyes( Luffy), and until ch597 he had no idea what haki was. He'd only used CoC subconsiously a few times (Marineford, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Motobaro, etc). Now for the life of me, I can't recall if it was in an SBS or just a fan theory I read somewhere, so I'll try finding it again. But that answer had always satisfied me to explain the "plothole" in haki pre-timeskip.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I read somewhere that the reason why we didn't see "black haki" is because as readers, a lot of what we learn is through the protagonist's eyes( Luffy), and until ch597 he had no idea what haki was. He'd only used CoC subconsiously a few times (Marineford, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Motobaro, etc). Now for the life of me, I can't recall if it was in an SBS or just a fan theory I read somewhere, so I'll try finding it again. But that answer had always satisfied me to explain the "plothole" in haki pre-timeskip.

He used CoA against BB in Impel Down and CoO in Marineford and just didn't know it.

Idk if you referring to what I wrote a while back concerning haki. It was heated debate with me and HP....

 

[goldb]

He used CoA against BB in Impel Down and CoO in Marineford and just didn't know it.

Idk if you referring to what I wrote a while back concerning haki. It was heated debate with me and HP....

I don't recall him using CoA against BB, I remember a jet pistol though. I'll need to re-read, but he wouldn't need to do so anyway, since BB can be harmed without the need for haki.

No this is either something I've read elsewhere or in an SBS. It wasn't from MH, that's for certain.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2020, Original Post Date: May 7, 2020 ---

Right, you're referring to BB commenting on Luffy's haki for the 2nd time after he was hit. Just remembered that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't recall him using CoA against BB, I remember a jet pistol though. I'll need to re-read, but he wouldn't need to do so anyway, since BB can be harmed without the need for haki.

No this is either something I've read elsewhere or in an SBS. It wasn't from MH, that's for certain.

BB reveals Luffy's has strong haki during Impel Down when Luffy punced him. Ive posted the panel several times in the past ... its the first time it is revealed his haki wasn't just his CoC.

 

[M3J]

I read somewhere that the reason why we didn't see "black haki" is because as readers, a lot of what we learn is through the protagonist's eyes( Luffy), and until ch597 he had no idea what haki was. He'd only used CoC subconsiously a few times (Marineford, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Motobaro, etc). Now for the life of me, I can't recall if it was in an SBS or just a fan theory I read somewhere, so I'll try finding it again. But that answer had always satisfied me to explain the "plothole" in haki pre-timeskip.

So black haki is Luffy detecting/noticing haki?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

So black haki is Luffy detecting/noticing haki?

Doesn't make sense no matter how I look at it.
I mean, there were many fights Luffy didn't witness first hand and we the audience did and armament hardening (Koka) was used - off my head is Vergo vs Law and Smoker.
So saying it's the view of Luffy extrapolated to the audience is an extreme stretch.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2020, Original Post Date: May 7, 2020 ---

Again, you dont need Haki to hurt Buggy. His DF does absolutely nothing if Hakified slices actually damage him.

IIRC Buggy's DF is the Bara Bara no mi (split) and it doesn't require being cut to work. He can split at will - hence getting cut by non-Haki infused blades or sharp objects is no different from Nami stretching Luffy's rubber body. That's just forcing his DF to action.
Just because Mihawk's flying slash didn't harm Buggy doesn't mean he's immune to Haki slashes. That may as well be one of the Pre-TS Haki issues the Manga has shown.

Either way I'm standing my ground that if any Haki user cuts Buggy right now as things are in the story, he'll bleed - unless he actively splits before he's cut which defines his ability.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2020 ---

BB reveals Luffy's has strong haki during Impel Down when Luffy punced him. Ive posted the panel several times in the past ... its the first time it is revealed his haki wasn't just his CoC.

Well done! And it goes to show that Luffy has been steadily improving even his CoA subconsciously.
I mean it's one thing to be aware of something and it's another to just have it. Rayleigh's words are that "Haki lies dormant in every one".
Hence in his first Haki lecture to Luffy, he says something along the lines of "true strength is to not doubt" or more aptly, "the act of not doubting, that is strength".
So Luffy had Haki but was totally unaware of it. This is why in various moments before the TS, we've witnessed Luffy subconsciously use all 3 Haki without been aware of them.

So even though he had CoA potentially dormant in him he's still not harming any Logia user cos he's totally unaware and doesn't even know how to release the power back then. Thus the Time Skip training!

 

[nik87]

Either way I'm standing my ground that if any Haki user cuts Buggy right now as things are in the story, he'll bleed - unless he actively splits before he's cut which defines his ability.

Considering the easy counter to Buggy's ability, I think he would remain unharmed by haki slashes.

 

[Shasha23]

Considering the easy counter to Buggy's ability, I think he would remain unharmed by haki slashes.

That would be impossible, if something like that was real then Buggy is the only DF user that haki doesnt affect.....nah haki works on Buggy same as it works on everyone else.

 

[nik87]

That would be impossible, if something like that was real then Buggy is the only DF user that haki doesnt affect.....nah haki works on Buggy same as it works on everyone else.

Idk, I am guessing here and I think it changes nothing in Buggy's case since you dont need Haki to hurt him to begin with.
There are exceptions always, for example, when DF users die, their fruit regrows somewhere, not in Brook's case...
What is Haki doing to Brook's ability? What's Haki doing to BM's ability?

 

[HereNThere]

Now for the life of me, I can't recall if it was in an SBS or just a fan theory I read somewhere, so I'll try finding it again. But that answer had always satisfied me to explain the "plothole" in haki pre-timeskip.

I remember that. It was a fairly popular fan theory that picked up steam around Punk Hazard I believe.

I never was a proponent of the theory, because Oda had still been "drawing" invisible haki around that point, with Pekoms hitting Caribou, Sanji fighting Vergo, and Tashigi striking Monet.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Idk, I am guessing here and I think it changes nothing in Buggy's case since you dont need Haki to hurt him to begin with.
There are exceptions always, for example, when DF users die, their fruit regrows somewhere, not in Brook's case...
What is Haki doing to Brook's ability? What's Haki doing to BM's ability?

View media item 22890A simple flick which shouldn't do anything to Luffy hurt him even though he is rubber. That's because it was accompanied by Haki. Garp uses the same thing on kid Luffy (fist of love).
Buggy is no exception, without Haki, if he's cut he splits without getting hurt. With Haki, he will definitely be harmed.

There's no 2 ways about it. Haki is the one thing that everyone is affected by, whether DF user or none. If you're hit by it, you're going to feel it (unless you defend yourself with an equally stronger Haki).

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2020, Original Post Date: May 7, 2020 ---

I remember that. It was a fairly popular fan theory that picked up steam around Punk Hazard I believe.

I never was a proponent of the theory, because Oda had still been "drawing" invisible haki around that point, with Pekoms hitting Caribou, Sanji fighting Vergo, and Tashigi striking Monet.

It is also important to remember that not every Haki user can use armament hardening (Koka) - the blackened form - But every Haki user can use the regular invisible Haki.

 

[Pirate Queen]

View media item 22890A simple flick which shouldn't do anything to Luffy hurt him even though he is rubber. That's because it was accompanied by Haki. Garp uses the same thing on kid Luffy (fist of love).
Buggy is no exception, without Haki, if he's cut he splits without getting hurt. With Haki, he will definitely be harmed.

There's no 2 ways about it. Haki is the one thing that everyone is affected by, whether DF user or none. If you're hit by it, you're going to feel it (unless you defend yourself with an equally stronger Haki).

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2020, Original Post Date: May 7, 2020 ---

It is also important to remember that not every Haki user can use armament hardening (Koka) - the blackened form - But every Haki user can use the regular invisible Haki.

But they don't lose their DF properties if coated in haki, right?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Buggy is no exception, without Haki, if he's cut he splits without getting hurt. With Haki, he will definitely be harmed.

Jeah. but then he just reassembles himself... and no real damage was done, thats why he is special.Just because you used haki on your slash and hurt him in the progress, you dont nullify the abilities of his body. You can cut his arm off... he just callls it back. Same with his friggin head.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

But they don't lose their DF properties if coated in haki, right?

Correct.