Umm I think SIU has shown to us that Baam regularly evolved and be able to excel outside of his main position, the wave controller.
SIU I think has planned baam to be like urek that can excel in almost any position (I'm not sure though for light bearer). But the fact that now, baam has possessed 2 new skill + 1 old skill that related to close range battle :
- red claw (from red demon)
- blue shield (from blue demon)
And this is too:
- butterfly palm skill or whatever (sry, I forget the name again)
Means that baam now can be considered as FISHERMAN (as he can fight in close rang). This is strengthen by the fact when he fight against the clown ranker (I forget the name) in the beginning of the nest battle, baam only fight by using red claw, a close range battle.
Ok, so that's one thing. As for the other proof that SIU planned to make baam has ability in other position is through the Archer mode that make him as SPEAR BEARER. Like what you guys has mentioned above, this Archer mode is similar like lepavuv ability (shinshu shot skill from long range). I think being a spear bearer has many form (it can be bow, guns, etc).
So, maybe baam will get another teacher that excel in light bearer (like Sophia tan maybe, she is excel in light bearer) to teach him that. Thank you, that's my opinion.
It's still too early for that. even if we ignore bam's very real current physical frailty, the fact remains that at close range he usually has a ton of support to keep him alive. Bam excels at mid range and above and struggles in melee range against meaningful enemies. Even now he has been almost consistently been bailed out from close range fights by karaka. If bam's close range physical combat actually kept up with his wave controller and shinsoo control techniques then bam would be able to trade melee attacks with the people in his tier. Bam's not really doing that right now.
Also, i can't stress enough how positions mostly apply to fighting shineuh and floor tests... They do not apply as much or are as clear cut in battles between people. Bam in the future will almost certainly develop skills which would fit into other positions... But for him to actually be considered for a position he needs to be competitive in that among people in his tier and also develop actual skill in it. Evankhel can throw the ancient spear but he isn't a spearbearer for instance. Bam got a bow and arrow. Cool. That's bam taking a first step into the long road that leads to the first step of competency at spear bearer. Bam learns quickly but even he needs time to develop skills. If we go by evankhel, she needed pretty much flawless calculations from aguero to land a hit on doom... Imagine what actual competence in this look like. Bam currently being able to perform in positions outside his own against people tiers below him is a meaningless feat.
It's still too early for that. even if we ignore bam's very real current physical frailty, the fact remains that at close range he usually has a ton of support to keep him alive. Bam excels at mid range and above and struggles in melee range against meaningful enemies. Even now he has been almost consistently been bailed out from close range fights by karaka. If bam's close range physical combat actually kept up with his wave controller and shinsoo control techniques then bam would be able to trade melee attacks with the people in his tier. Bam's not really doing that right now.
Also, i can't stress enough how positions mostly apply to fighting shineuh and floor tests... They do not apply as much or are as clear cut in battles between people. Bam in the future will almost certainly develop skills which would fit into other positions... But for him to actually be considered for a position he needs to be competitive in that among people in his tier and also develop actual skill in it. Evankhel can throw the ancient spear but he isn't a spearbearer for instance. Bam got a bow and arrow. Cool. That's bam taking a first step into the long road that leads to the first step of competency at spear bearer. Bam learns quickly but even he needs time to develop skills. If we go by evankhel, she needed pretty much flawless calculations from aguero to land a hit on doom... Imagine what actual competence in this look like. Bam currently being able to perform in positions outside his own against people tiers below him is a meaningless feat.
I agree on the part that Baam still not proficiency enough in his fisherman and spearbear position. But we also must take into account these facts:
1. Time. Baam only learn both those two fisherman and speabearer skill in the beginning of nest battle. It's a very short time. To expect him already excel in those skill in a very short time is not logical.
2. His opponent level. It was kallavan that you mentioned above. He is not only ordinary high ranker but already in top 100. If we want to compare how already efficient baam in using his new close range skill (especially in a very short time) a good example is when he fight againts the clown ranker guy. From their fight, it can almost be concluded that Baam base level is already equal to a ranker.
3. Baam full power. We haven't seen it yet. All we have seen so far is:
- new power of red Claw
- new power of blue Shield
- new power of soul Bow
- and, old power of two Thorn activated at the same time
Baam still has lot of room to evolve in this battle of the nest. He hasn't shown :
- black March ignited
- stabbed mode(with either Thorn or black March)
- and, combination of all power mentioned above.
With the base baam already on the ranker level. I wouldnt be surprise if Baam using all his potential/power he can match to that of top 100 high ranker like kallavan (though for a very short time) in the end of the nest battle.
I don't know why so much insistence on Baam's skills as a fisherman has already been made clear that when it comes to a high level fight, he is always at a disadvantage in that position. Against regulars he always did well because he is an irregular, but when he faced Data Zahard, he only managed to stand out when he took the position of a WC.
That's an unfair comparison. Data Zahard was leagues above Baam in skill and was literally the best Fisherman around. It's nonsense to say he's unsuited to close range fighting since Zahard overwhelmed him there. Not to mention he got the Thyrssa upgrades since then.
Baam's skills as a fisherman depend on his strengthening of Shinsoo, which differs from people like Yuri, Androssi, Cha, Novick etc, people who besides the strong strengthening of Shinsoo, have a high physical ability.
Another unfair comparison. Comparing Baam to people with people like these with absurd physical gifts is silly. Not to mention that we've already seen that his shinsoo boost is enough to somewhat make up fr the gap in ability.
It's still too early for that. even if we ignore bam's very real current physical frailty, the fact remains that at close range he usually has a ton of support to keep him alive. Bam excels at mid range and above and struggles in melee range against meaningful enemies.
Still don't know where you're getting that Baam is physically frail because he can't match up with monsters. We've literally seen him go toe to toe with ranker level Fishermen.
But for him to actually be considered for a position he needs to be competitive in that among people in his tier and also develop actual skill in it.
I agree on the part that Baam still not proficiency enough in his fisherman and spearbear position. But we also must take into account these facts:
1. Time. Baam only learn both those two fisherman and speabearer skill in the beginning of nest battle. It's a very short time. To expect him already excel in those skill in a very short time is not logical.
2. His opponent level. It was kallavan that you mentioned above. He is not only ordinary high ranker but already in top 100. If we want to compare how already efficient baam in using his new close range skill (especially in a very short time) a good example is when he fight with the clown ranker guy. From their fight, it can be almost concluded that Baam base level is already equal to a ranker.
3. Baam full power. We haven't seen it yet. All we have seen so far is:
- new power of red Claw
- new power of blue Shield
- new power of soul Bow
- and, old power of two Thorn activated at the same time
Baam still has lot of room to evolve in this battle of the nest. He hasn't shown :
- black March ignited
- stabbed mode(with either Thorn or black March)
- and, combination of all power mentioned above.
With the base baam already on the ranker level. I wouldnt be surprise if Baam using all his potential/power he can match to that top 100 high ranker like kallavan (though for a very short time) in the end of the nest battle.
1.- That's kinda my point.
2.- Sure, but bam himself is already evidencing being competitive at that scale, though he needs support. Bam is definitely able to injure kallavan and is largely the reason he lost an arm against white. If bam today had fisherman specks he'd be trading punches or sword attacks with kallavan much like he is doing with his shinsoo blasts. But he isn't, because he can't, because his specks aren't even remotely competitive for that.
3.-
We did see the red thrysa in its current level against kallavan. It didn't do anything.
We did see the blue shield, also didn't do anything, though granted it was the first try.
If the soul bow is anything like the arie sword we saw back at the hell train.... And active thorns don't change his specks.
If bam can suddenly perform competitively as a fisherman against kallavan by merely activating the two thorns then it means he probably can one shot kallavan with a half assed bang. In other words, bam would be so grossly overpowered at this point that his feat against kallavan would be as meaningless as punching baragav away. These boosts aren't exclusive to the physical aspects of combat, bam's boost boost everything. And I think we can agree in that bam's shinsoo control vastly exceeds his capacity for CQC (which is basically martial arts + reinforcement + physical strength). Basically, bam's boosts do jack shit to bridge the gap between his physical combat and shinsoo control. However much those improve his physical combat, his shinsoo control will be strengthened by as much or even more. It'd be different if bam's boosts didn't affect his shinsoo control but did affect his physical strength and reinforcement.
And don't get me wrong, I don't rule out bam eventually developing in such a way that he could actually be competitive in all positions with people in his tier. I am merely making the point that right now bam doesn't actually evidence being on his way there yet.
Still don't know where you're getting that Baam is physically frail because he can't match up with monsters. We've literally seen him go toe to toe with ranker level Fishermen.
Baam has already done this. He's able to fight rankers in close range combat now. What else do you want from him?
Wait, but bam going up against ranker level fisherman is not the same as bam himself being capable of taking that position. Also, not one of his fights against rankers actually evidences fisherman like feats. As in, feats of physical strength.
1.- Against the first canine twin bam won by using his shinsoo loop... And had help from jordan. Bam fought easily within his comfort zone.
2.- Against the second canine twin, whose transformation was not allowed, bam showed no feats of strength. His speed was ok but bam was being overwhelmed which lead to him using a very risky floral butterfly. Which is in no form or context a feat of strength.
3.- Bam did hold gado back using the thrysa but he was still being overwhelmed. And when he did damage gado he was supporting canzon.
All I am saying is that if bam is supposed to already be capable of performing as a fisherman then, well, he should. But he isn't, because he actually can't. At the moment anyone bam could tie against while taking a fisherman spot would be someone he could otherwise easily foderize with a few bangs or less.
Because High Rankers have to handle all 5 Basic positions "at least well" (SIU). I suppose that having a flaw in any of these áreas is an exploitable weakness a High Ranker can't afford to have. I don't know If It is required necessarily that you have a tough body to play "at least well" the role of Fisherman. I know heavily physical people Will be the picks for that role, but maybe people who sort of compensate with a great reinforcement can fit the "at least well" requirement. I'm counting It as "you must not be null in that department as to have others taking advantage of you because of It".
Which is exactly why Baam is a regular, not a high-ranker. Anyway, I didn't say that he is bad as a fisherman, I just said that he is not his strong point. He has already shown good skills in this position, but his true potential is as a wave controller. A good example of this are regulars like Novick and Ran, both have a double position, but Novick is much better as a fisherman while Ran as a spear carrier.
Baam is still learning and growing as he climbs. He didn't start out very strong and had a frail body. He became more like a Fisherman after FUG took him in and started learning martial arts from Jinsung. Piercing Wave technique is actually a Fisherman technique. Baam will most likely continue to evolve physically as he climbs the tower. He probably still won't reach the skill of people like Jahad but I suspect at the pace he is growing it's only a matter of time before he becomes even more proficient at hand to hand than even those in the Ha family with the exception of the FH. By the end of ToG he will have become so much stronger that his physical abilities will appear to have reached the point where he can fight even the strongest of Regular fisherman.
You need to read what I said again, I didn’t say he’s bad as a fisherman, I just said that when it comes to a high-level battle, his skills as a fisherman are lacking, I never said that he cannot improve or that will not.
That's an unfair comparison. Data Zahard was leagues above Baam in skill and was literally the best Fisherman around. It's nonsense to say he's unsuited to close range fighting since Zahard overwhelmed him there. Not to mention he got the Thyrssa upgrades since then.
An unfair comparison why? Baam is as irregular as Zahard. Baam's main position is wave control, it is obvious that in fights against more powerful opponents his skills as a WC will be better than his skills as a fisherman or any other position. It is no wonder that from the moment he started fighting using orbs, Zahard became serious.
Another unfair comparison. Comparing Baam to people with people like these with absurd physical gifts is silly. Not to mention that we've already seen that his shinsoo boost is enough to somewhat make up fr the gap in ability.
Lol, every fisherman has good physical skills and this has always been Baam's weakness, and this is not his main position, so it is normal for his skills as a fisherman to be inferior to that of real fishermen. If you still don't understand my point, I will explain in other words: So far, with everything we know and was shown to us by the SIU, Baam will never beat Zahard by fighting like a fisherman or Eduan by fighting like a spear carrier. His potential and talent are exploited to the maximum when he is as a wave controller.
Wait, but bam going up against ranker level fisherman is not the same as bam himself being capable of taking that position. Also, not one of his fights against rankers actually evidences fisherman like feats. As in, feats of physical strength.
We literally just saw Bam match Charlie in close range with Thyrssa upgrades. If he can match up to an average ranker in close combat, he's more than capable of switching to Fisherman in a pinch.
An unfair comparison why? Baam is as irregular as Zahard. Baam's main position is wave control, it is obvious that in fights against more powerful opponents his skills as a WC will be better than his skills as a fisherman or any other position. It is no wonder that from the moment he started fighting using orbs, Zahard became serious.
Bam noted that he was leagues below Zahard. Saying that he can't match up to a monster like that in close combat means he can't be a Fisherman is crazy, especially since we've seen him beat ranker level Fishermen in close combat.
We literally just saw Bam match Charlie in close range with Thyrssa upgrades. If he can match up to an average ranker in close combat, he's more than capable of switching to Fisherman in a pinch.
But... charlie is well beneath bam's current tier. What good are bam's presumed fishermen skills against enemies that he can't bulldoze with far more ease with his other skills?
Shinsu qualities and shapes were explicitly introduced as a special forms that only some special individuals can have, this is a fact and I can't go against it. Yeah, it doesn't mean other people can't learn these skills, but they've also to be born suited for that and they're rare and "special" exactly like KGs clans in Naruto (Hyuuga with the Byakugan, Uchihas with the Sharingan, ice release for Haku's clan, bones for Kimimaro's clan, etc), that's what Edahn explained.
And again, Miseng's quality isn't a form of body reinforcement, it's sudden shinsu "bursts", an explosive power that boosts the shinsu for a moment and applies for any kind of skills or do you think Misegn used some kind of "body" strenghtening to boost Endorsi's long ranged needles ?
well, yeah? But there is still nothing in the series that actually suggests each shinsoo quality/shape is unique to the user (which was your original point in this regard). There is ample evidence that shinsoo qualities and shapes can run in a family. It's an unquestionable fact that they aren't unique to the users, aguero and eduan prove that since they share at least one shinsoo quality.
MIseng's technique is literally called a shinsoo boost: berserker. Shinsoo boost is also what jinsung called his reinforcement techniques against mascheny.... Reinforcement isn't just one technique, there are variations and there are multiple instances of people using different kinds of them. Like bam at the hell train learning one from the GoGs. it makes perfect sense that reinforcement can be a shinsoo quality. Heck, we specifically see miseng using enhanced physical combat, there were no shinsoo blasts or explosions.. As for what miseng did for androsi, that was an observer thing. She literally uses her observer to give androsi a boost.
Wow, three pages of off-topic content. It would really pain me and annoy me to delete all these walls of text so I'll invite you to keep talking about Shinsoo attributes and stuff here.
But the next off topic posts will be deleted and you might get warning points.
Wow, three pages of off-topic content. It would really pain me and annoy me to delete all these walls of text so I'll invite you to keep talking about Shinsoo attributes and stuff here.
But the next off topic posts will be deleted and you might get warning points.
This thread is about the content of this chapter and predictions. If you have nothing to say about this and want to talk about something else, anything else. You can create a thread for it and post in other created threads. Posting in the Hangout thread is an option too because it's about anything TOG related(but no spoiler talk outside without tags).
He is a High Ranker tho. Are we ok with Bam igniting his Thorn and giving his best ever seen Just to beat that dude? Data Jahad was a climax battle, It justified the satisfying burnout of all Bam had, this Guy isn't. And yet, I can't see Bam killing a High Ranker with less than Thorn ignition, which would reveal to all that he holds the Power of an Administrator. I think unless that loud guy gets a good instant hyping we Will have someone on Advanced Ranker lvl to fight Bam, which is already above Adori's feat.
He is a High Ranker tho. Are we ok with Bam igniting his Thorn and giving his best ever seen Just to beat that dude? Data Jahad was a climax battle, It justified the satisfying burnout of all Bam had, this Guy isn't. And yet, I can't see Bam killing a High Ranker with less than Thorn ignition, which would reveal to all that he holds the Power of an Administrator. I think unless that loud guy gets a good instant hyping we Will have someone on Advanced Ranker lvl to fight Bam, which is already above Adori's feat.
He is a High Ranker tho. Are we ok with Bam igniting his Thorn and giving his best ever seen Just to beat that dude? Data Jahad was a climax battle, It justified the satisfying burnout of all Bam had, this Guy isn't. And yet, I can't see Bam killing a High Ranker with less than Thorn ignition, which would reveal to all that he holds the Power of an Administrator. I think unless that loud guy gets a good instant hyping we Will have someone on Advanced Ranker lvl to fight Bam, which is already above Adori's feat.
Why not? Plus, even after that SIU will probably find a way to make Baam relevant anyway. Baam will have some trouble but he'll win and people will hype him as usual.
I wonder what Kallavan intends to do after he fights and get back his position, and how this will end, he seems less eager to fight Baam now (and Baam too) compared to their last encounter in which Baam almost deviated from his objective just for a fight.
Maschenny is always smiling and keeping secrets, its making me curious to know what she is up to, it doesn’t look like she is just causing chaos for the sake of it, but what is her agenda?
We know that average HRs are little jokes comapred to squadron commanders, plus giving Baam's performance against Gado once he activated the Thorn, I'd say that with Thorn + revolution, he can easily wipe average HRs one on one.
We know that average HRs are little jokes comapred to squadron commanders, plus giving Baam's performance against Gado once he activated the Thorn, I'd say that with Thorn + revolution, he can easily wipe average HRs one on one.
His current that teleported the super needle is using second Thorn and Souls, which he couldn't keep activated before (his previous top was both Thorns on the transcendental skill that nearly cut Kallavan's arm, but only briefly). Him keeping second Thorn active is already a huge feat that should near him to a Division commander indeed. But I think he still Will be at the lower side of the fight, Just like with Gado, only not endangered. It takes further for him to actually defeat, by himself, one of these people. He took Gado's leg but only after Kenzon restrained Gado.
I think Bam currently, with Souls and all, sits somewhere in the bottom of High Ranker tier. Maybe not even there, maybe still an Advanced Ranker with priviledges. In order to defeat a High Ranker, Bam would need a matchup he can handle, I doubt he could handle Kallavan's WC guy, for instance. Or even qualified Spear Bearers. He needs a good matchup and another, further powerup, or imo he won't defeat a person on par with Ari Bright Sharon or Ha Cheonhee. That dude likely has some bad tricks up his sleeve and we know Ha Cheonhee was able to save Frog dude from White Magnolia, White's First atk on Kallavan's lvl. Division commanders are not nothing compared to Squad Commanders, they matter even on that level.
His current that teleported the super needle is using second Thorn and Souls, which he couldn't keep activated before (his previous top was both Thorns on the transcendental skill that nearly cut Kallavan's arm, but only briefly). Him keeping second Thorn active is already a huge feat that should near him to a Division commander indeed. But I think he still Will be at the lower side of the fight, Just like with Gado, only not endangered. It takes further for him to actually defeat, by himself, one of these people. He took Gado's leg but only after Kenzon restrained Gado.
I think Bam currently, with Souls and all, sits somewhere in the bottom of High Ranker tier. Maybe not even there, maybe still an Advanced Ranker with priviledges. In order to defeat a High Ranker, Bam would need a matchup he can handle, I doubt he could handle Kallavan's WC guy, for instance. Or even qualified Spear Bearers. He needs a good matchup and another, further powerup, or imo he won't defeat a person on par with Ari Bright Sharon or Ha Cheonhee. That dude likely has some bad tricks up his sleeve and we know Ha Cheonhee was able to save Frog dude from White Magnolia, White's First atk on Kallavan's lvl. Division commanders are not nothing compared to Squad Commanders, they matter even on that level.
I think that might actually underestimate current bam. Because bam injuring kallavan at all even without the souls is a feat beyond normal high rankers. For context, even white struggled to injure kallavan and straight up couldn't when kallavan went 100% defensive. Skillwise bam appears to be by all accounts just short of a standard or even low tier ranker but perhaps at this point having the sheer power of the souls, specially since they basically sustain his stamina, it might be enough for him to win against high rankers out of sheer hax and perhaps hold his own against kallavan like high rankers unassisted. Souls are a game changer...
