One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

I think I'd be disappointed if there's a CP0 member who's a pure rokushiki user like Lucci and Jyabura (whose only other powers are Zoans that only serve to upgrade their rokushikis) but that's stronger than Lucci after all the hype with him back then. If there's a stronger CP0 member I hope he at least owes that to having a very deadly Devil Fruit other than just rokushiki.
Lucci not being boss doesn't bother me, though. He never was and he only cares about being allowed to kill.

I wonder, though, as CP0 they probably can't kill as freely as before, since the whole deal with CP9 was that their existence was secret, contrary to all other CP, and they performed assassinations on a daily basis without tarnishing the WG's name.

 

[M3J]

Oda's never really made a good past opponent weak on their reappearance. Crocodile was on level 6, and he had a great showing in Marine Ford. Even Bellamy was much stronger the next time we saw him, after Luffy coldly one shotted him. So Lucci, a guy who gave Luffy a brutal fight, should still be pretty strong. I just hope if he tries to fight him, Zoro or Sanji stop him and say "you don't get the boss again" and have a good fight against him instead.

Exactly.

Though I hope unless there's a boss, Lucci has a rematch with Luffy rather than Zoro or Sanji. I'd actually love to see those two have a rivalry/enmity with each other.

 

[nik87]

If Lucci wants to fight Zoro, he better brings a pair of weapons otherwise it's Fuujin/Raijin treatment...
He wouldnt stand a chance back then against Asura and now it's even worse.
He could give Sanji hell of a fight if he has CoO to avoid being a punching bag.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Exactly.

Though I hope unless there's a boss, Lucci has a rematch with Luffy rather than Zoro or Sanji. I'd actually love to see those two have a rivalry/enmity with each other.

Yeah I would personally like to see an equivalent to Luffy on the Marine/WG side of things. Smoker and Coby just can't cut it. Luffy is too far ahead of them.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2020 ---

Oda's never really made a good past opponent weak on their reappearance. Crocodile was on level 6, and he had a great showing in Marine Ford. Even Bellamy was much stronger the next time we saw him, after Luffy coldly one shotted him. So Lucci, a guy who gave Luffy a brutal fight, should still be pretty strong. I just hope if he tries to fight him, Zoro or Sanji stop him and say "you don't get the boss again" and have a good fight against him instead.

I think that happened in the latest movie. Sanji and Zoro blocked Lucci and Crocodile from getting to Luffy, it would cool to canonize a situation like that.

 

[Fox666]

Oda's never really made a good past opponent weak on their reappearance. Crocodile was on level 6, and he had a great showing in Marine Ford. Even Bellamy was much stronger the next time we saw him, after Luffy coldly one shotted him. So Lucci, a guy who gave Luffy a brutal fight, should still be pretty strong. I just hope if he tries to fight him, Zoro or Sanji stop him and say "you don't get the boss again" and have a good fight against him instead.

However I think that cases Luffy grew more than his past enemies.

 

[M3J]

Yeah I would personally like to see an equivalent to Luffy on the Marine/WG side of things. Smoker and Coby just can't cut it. Luffy is too far ahead of them.

Multiple rivalries from the WG sounds great, honestly. Coby's rivalry with Luffy wouldn't be deadly or have enmity the way Luffy's rivalry with Lucci would, it'd just be two people who respect each other doing their duties/what they want to do. Same with Smoker, especially since both see the Straw Hats as good people. I think we'll see Coby and even Smoker get stronger and able to challenge Luffy, and I hope we do.

Plus, it'd be interesting to think about the choices Coby/Smoker would have to make if Lucci comes after, finishes off Luffy, and is about to kill him or throw him in the gulag. Would either try to save Luffy or leave him to his fate, knowing he's a pirate? Or would they try to save him?

 

[Aki1991]

If Lucci wants to fight Zoro, he better brings a pair of weapons otherwise it's Fuujin/Raijin treatment...
He wouldnt stand a chance back then against Asura and now it's even worse.
He could give Sanji hell of a fight if he has CoO to avoid being a punching bag.

Is it funny to live in this dream world of yours? Lucci would have stomped Zolo back then...

 

[nik87]

Is it funny to live in this dream world of yours? Lucci would have stomped Zolo back then...

No weaponless combatant stands a chance in front of Zoro... One-shot the moment he pulls Asura.

 

[Nie Li]

No weaponless combatant stands a chance in front of Zoro... One-shot the moment he pulls Asura.

As much as I love Zoro, he wouldn't have lived long enough to pull Asura on Lucci.

 

[nik87]

As much as I love Zoro, he wouldn't have lived long enough to pull Asura on Lucci.

He would easily... He was keeping up with soru users without his PU while Luffy needed PUs to keep up with them.
The moment Zoro pulled his PU it neg diffed Kaku, unnecessary overkill.
While Kaku has actual swords to block swords with, Lucci would have to take on everything with his actual body and no way he can stand Asura.
Pacifista who was a lot tougher than Lucci was cut by Asura.

 

[Brandish μ]

I think Zoro would have done well, but not win of course. Around high difficulty.

 

[nik87]

I think Zoro would have done well, but not win of course. Around high difficulty.

Lucci would have to endure Asura for that to occur and how you incorporate that when a tougher opponent has been cut by Zoro?

 

[Brandish μ]

Lucci would have to endure Asura for that to occur and how you incorporate that when a tougher opponent has been cut by Zoro?

Do you mean Kaku was stronger?

 

[nik87]

Do you mean Kaku was stronger?

Pacifista PX-4 is far tougher than Lucci and has been cut by Asura Makyusen.

 

[Aki1991]

Mods why are you not doing anything? We are discussing again and again abot Zolo and swords for 200 pages now...

It was my mistake to answer, I know. I was getting weak because of this nonsense again.

Please switch to something else! I'll try to change this topic. It won't last long anyway, but worth a try though.

Do you think Don Krieg was stronger or weaker than Arlong? Would he have done well without Mihawk crossing his path on the grand line?

 

[Brandish μ]

Pacifista PX-4 is far tougher than Lucci and has been cut by Asura Makyusen.

Hmm, I don't recall this. But at the time, Zoro only just beat Kaku.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2020 ---

Mods why are you not doing anything? We are discussing again and again abot Zolo and swords for 200 pages now...

Well, how the topics are discussed comes down to everyone. I can see what you mean, a lot of this is cyclic, but power level discussions are too. If a topic is too repetitive I'll ask people to move on from it.

Do you think Don Krieg was stronger or weaker than Arlong? Would he have done well without Mihawk crossing his path on the grand line?

If I had to guess, weaker. Man that was so long ago lol.

 

[nik87]

Hmm, I don't recall this. But at the time, Zoro only just beat Kaku.

Look up 2nd last hit on PX-4. G2 was doing nothing to it while it was wrecking Lucci.
Zoro obviously would have one-shotted Lucci, that is not even a guess.
Oda conveniently pairs Zoro with opponents who have the means to resist the swords otherwise it's a waste of a character.

 

[Aki1991]

If I had to guess, weaker. Man that was so long ago lol.

I have started to read the manga again (currently volume 61) and to watch the anime (episode 27). I had the impression that Krieg was pretty strong for East blue level. He had 5000 man under him. So maybe he had the potential to became a 100 mio man, who knows? ^^

Bad luck crossing Mihawks path who seems to be admiral/yonko level.

 

[Nie Li]

Look up 2nd last hit on PX-4. G2 was doing nothing to it while it was wrecking Lucci.
Zoro obviously would have one-shotted Lucci, that is not even a guess.
Oda conveniently pairs Zoro with opponents who have the means to resist the swords otherwise it's a waste of a character.

Any single CP9 could fight against swords, though. Oda could have made Kaku just a stronger tekkai user and fight Zoro just with it. It was an aesthetic choice to make him a swordsman. Even the first time they clashed Kaku beat Zoro with only shigan. Lucci is twice as strong as Kaku and demonstrated the highest tekkai ability among the CP9, taking Franky's Strong Hammer to the chest without moving a finger. Asura may damage Lucci, but there's no way to make the argument that Zoro could damage him without Asura (at the time) more than Lucci could kill him first.
You also have to take into account that Lucci didn't fall after receiving the first Jet Pistol either. He took several of them, a jet rifle, a jet bullet, a jet bazooka, a G3 punch and a jet gatling gun before he finally fell, despite taking the first hits without zoan nor tekkai. Zoro dealing more damage in a combo attack against a Pacifista doesn't guarantee he could take Lucci down on a single hit. Not that Lucci would just remain still either as he proved to be much faster than Kaku was, having his own kind of soru technique and all.

Take also into account just how long it took Zoro to go Asura against Kaku, like an hour into the fight, while it took Luffy less than ten minutes to be pierced by a barrage of shigans from a Lucci who casually walked through his gomu gomu no gatling avoiding the punches.

There was all that and there was also how the plot itself told us that only Luffy could take on Lucci at the time. Luffy and the crew themselves all aknowledged in that same arc how "it's Luffy who will take on Lucci because he always takes on the strongest because nobody else can" and the whole thing when Luffy was almost defeated that Lucci almost when on to kill Zoro and the rest and Luffy had to pull some Plus Ultra power to beat him. Clearly the whole point of that scene is that half-beaten Lucci was enough for the rest of the crew.

I have started to read the manga again (currently volume 61) and to watch the anime (episode 27). I had the impression that Krieg was pretty strong for East blue level. He had 5000 man under him. So maybe he had the potential to became a 100 mio man, who knows? ^^

Bad luck crossing Mihawks path who seems to be admiral/yonko level.

Krieg's strength was mischief if I remember right. He tricked his way to get everything he achieved and used many tools, traps and poisons to strengthen himself. He was, for a man so mischievous, very physically strong, but as long as he kept relying on all that he doesn't look like a man who would have unlocked haki, so his progress capability probably had a set limit unless he eventually ran into a Devil Fruit.
He had bad luck running into Mihawk but I don't think his crew would have fared much better against Arlong. Arlong's crew specialized in sinking ships, no matter the number, by playing around with sea currents, and only Krieg himself, Gin and Pearl were on the level to fight against fishmen. The rest of the fleet were all fodder (at least those that we saw. Who knows if some stronger crewmate fell before they ran away from Mihawk).

More than Don Krieg himself, I think Gin is the most interesting. He was physically around as strong as Krieg and able to fight one on one against Sanji on a similar level. His tonfas were cool, too. I always wished he reappears one day. After all, he left poisoned and half dead, but he must have ran into Crocus right after entering GL. Who knows.

 

[nik87]

Any single CP9 could fight against swords, though. Oda could have made Kaku just a stronger tekkai user and fight Zoro just with it. It was an aesthetic choice to make him a swordsman. Even the first time they clashed Kaku beat Zoro with only shigan. Lucci is twice as strong as Kaku and demonstrated the highest tekkai ability among the CP9, taking Franky's Strong Hammer to the chest without moving a finger. Asura may damage Lucci, but there's no way to make the argument that Zoro could damage him without Asura (at the time) more than Lucci could kill him first.
You also have to take into account that Lucci didn't fall after receiving the first Jet Pistol either. He took several of them, a jet rifle, a jet bullet, a jet bazooka, a G3 punch and a jet gatling gun before he finally fell, despite taking the first hits without zoan nor tekkai. Zoro dealing more damage in a combo attack against a Pacifista doesn't guarantee he could take Lucci down on a single hit. Not that Lucci would just remain still either as he proved to be much faster than Kaku was, having his own kind of soru technique and all.

Take also into account just how long it took Zoro to go Asura against Kaku, like an hour into the fight, while it took Luffy less than ten minutes to be pierced by a barrage of shigans from a Lucci who casually walked through his gomu gomu no gatling avoiding the punches.

There was all that and there was also how the plot itself told us that only Luffy could take on Lucci at the time. Luffy and the crew themselves all aknowledged in that same arc how "it's Luffy who will take on Lucci because he always takes on the strongest because nobody else can" and the whole thing when Luffy was almost defeated that Lucci almost when on to kill Zoro and the rest and Luffy had to pull some Plus Ultra power to beat him. Clearly the whole point of that scene is that half-beaten Lucci was enough for the rest of the crew.

Factually wrong because tekkai wasnt enough to stop Zoro's swords. Stronger toughness than Lucci's was not enough to stop Zoro.
It is never an aesthetic choice, every single one of Zoro's opponents has a way to somehow deal with a sword instead of taking it with their bodies.
The first time they clashed is irrelevant. Luffy was one-shotted instantly as well, didnt stop him from beating Lucci next time they met.

Lucci's tekkai is irrelevant, Pacifista is incomparably tougher and couldnt stop Zoro's Asura.
Let's get it over with, stop bring up tekkai because it cannot stop Zoro. Check it up so we can move on from the tekkai argument.
Zoro didnt need Asura to keep up with Cp9's Soru speeds, Sanji didnt need it either, it was only Luffy who needed his PU to keep up with them.

Lucci cant kill Zoro "before he even uses Asura" just like he couldnt one-shot Luffy the second time he met him like he did the first time.
Strawhats at their first meeting werent even serious and were mentally in a mess since they didnt understand what is going on with Robin.
Once they found out the truth and got their minds focused on the task, they were completely different.

Why wouldnt he be able to take Lucci out in a single hit? Taking on Pacifista in a combo attack doesnt reduce the hardness of the material nor is anybody else helping him to cut it. It was all his effort to cut it, cannot be downplayed. Asura is by far overkill mode for any CP9 member, Lucci included.
He would remain still, it's shown on panel, his cockiness would mean his demise. He was stupid enough to take on G3 even tho he could have dodged it.

It took Zoro long to go into Asura because Oda gains nothing from Zoro pulling Asura in the very first panel of the fight and ending it instantly, that's not what the author benefits from. He is there to tell the story and make fights interesting, 2-chapters long instead of 1 page one-shot right away...
He can pull Asura whenever he wants.

No, plot didnt tell us that. Luffy said that if he let Lucci go he would kill his crew, Luffy at that time had 0 idea of Zoro's Asura which is by far superior to anything Luffy had at that point. Nobody acknowledged that... Usopp asked Zoro if they should go and help and Zoro responded that they should stay together to avoid separating again and clear the way for escape. We obviously disagree and I have manga proof that Zoro goes through tougher than Lucci.