This was not something to agree or disagree on. We can agree to disagree on other things, like what happened between Sanji and P1 (something we already agreed to disagree on). But on this occasion I asked you to back two of your claims and you didn't (couldn't).
You did what I accused you of, you used a fallacy about which I corrected you. Which isn't even something that should have spawned a heated discussion on the first place. I just called out a fallacy and said that it wasn't a valid point. That's all there was to that.
You called me a lier , so don't say you weren't disrespectful. I, on the other hand, did not insult your grammar just now. I insulted your reading comprehension. I know it's rude, but most of your answers are either deflects or twists on what I say, such as this example right here, and repeatedly calling me a lier while ignoring what I tell you can take some manners out of me. I'll tell you that I'm sorry of my choice of words.
If you want to move on don't answer to this part of the post, but you're not getting the last word because what you're saying has reached a point in which I'm not even sure if you're not just trolling.
Right here:
You said he's the only one able of that. He's not. Rayleigh is no speedster and he kept just fine with Kizaru, so even Zoro or Brook could keep up with Kizaru (in the future. I don't think anyone in the crew is strong enough to defeat Kizaru now).
You know where I got the idea from.
Now, I don't know is Sanji is the most suited to fight against Kizaru because of Kizaru's use of a "lightsaber", but it may be an interesting fight in the future if Sanji shows some new stuff.
I agree on Zoro vs Fujitora being a probable fight. One Piece is always pushing swordsmen vs swordsmen and they did generate some enmity back in Dressrosa.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I can see Sanji hating Shiryu because of his invisibility but so far Shiryu is the only pure swordsman on BB's side so that's a guaranteed Zoro confrontation unless there's a more skilled swordsman under BB.
So your saying Akainu, Fujitora, and Ryogukai are taking back seat doing nothing? Like your ignoring them think making Sanji greater than all. Again forcing narration like always.
We all know Kizaru wasn't full power on Rayleigh and nah on those 2 taking on Kizaru at all as even Brook is faster than Zoro, but doesn't have power to match. Kizaru will need both power and speed which Sanji can provide while the others handle their own serious opponents.
Thank you admitting those are true to happen. Honestly thought you push narrative on Zoro should face Akainu or something.
Nah not everyone they face is always fighter and swordsmen and plus by narration, Zoro vs Burgess given first people to join their Captains, so by your logic he won't face Shiryu and that be Sanji instead which honestly make sense more especially design wise.
By narration, Zoro vs Burgess? How?
Doesn't matter if Burgess was the first one to join Blackbeard's crew, what's relevant is the power levels in the crew.
Burgess is a scrub. Zoro will face the second strongest in BB's crew, who also happen to be a swordsman - Shiryu.
So your saying Akainu, Fujitora, and Ryogukai are taking back seat doing nothing? Like your ignoring them think making Sanji greater than all. Again forcing narration like always.
What did I force and what does any of that have to do with anything?
The only thing I said is that I don't agree that Sanji is the only strawhat that could potentially keep up with Kizaru (whenever the crew reaches admiral level).
Calm down.
We all know Kizaru wasn't full power on Rayleigh and nah on those 2 taking on Kizaru at all as even Brook is faster than Zoro, but doesn't have power to match. Kizaru will need both power and speed which Sanji can provide while the others handle their own serious opponents.
We know Rayleigh wasn't full power on Kizaru as well, so what's your point?
Wait, I was talking about Zoro and Brook when the crew reaches that level. What you're suggesting is that Sanji, RIGHT NOW, could take Kizaru in a 1vs1? And obviously without RS because you don't think it helps Sanji during fights.
Sanji would be obliterated if he tried to solo Kizaru in this point of the story.
All the strawhats would die if they tried fighting Akainu right now as well.
Nah not everyone they face is always fighter and swordsmen and plus by narration, Zoro vs Burgess given first people to join their Captains, so by your logic he won't face Shiryu and that be Sanji instead which honestly make sense more especially design wise.
By my logic???
When was my logic that Zoro would be the one fighting the first one to join BB's crew?
Burgess doesn't use swords so that's definetely not my logic.
My logic is that Zoro is always fighting against the swordsmen of other crews.
Always.
Oda was asked about it in a SBS and just joked it off like "SWORDSMEN ATTRACT EACH OTHER".
It's part of Zoro's character arc of becoming the strongest swordsman.
Even in the East Blue, Sanji fought Arlong's second in command Kuroobi while Zoro fought the swordsman, Hatchan.
Zoro usually fights the second stronger, but not always: he fights the swordsman.
By narration, Zoro vs Burgess? How?
Doesn't matter if Burgess was the first one to join Blackbeard's crew, what's relevant is the power levels in the crew.
Burgess is a scrub. Zoro will face the second strongest in BB's crew, who also happen to be a swordsman - Shiryu.
Many use excuse in Zoro will always face first mate type of each major boss and Burgess is that one. Can't change narrative now if you commit as occurrence, so Zoro vs Burgess have the bet especially growing theory he could get Jozu's DF later. Burgess losing to Sabo doesn't mean he won't be stronger later, so can still happen while Sanji vs Shiryu have more sense why it can happen.
Sanji and Burgess have one thing in common, they last 10 seconds against Shiryu and Zoro.
Both are one-shot material for swordsmen but against each other, both pairings can make a good fight.
Still, betting on Sanji vs the Corrupt Meow from north blue.
Sanji and Burgess have one thing in common, they last 10 seconds against Shiryu and Zoro.
Both are one-shot material for swordsmen but against each other, both pairings can make a good fight.
Still, betting on Sanji vs the Corrupt Meow from north blue.
Burgess was quite disappointing on Dressrosa (he got lowdiffed by Sabo before he even had the mera mera) so Ávalo vs Sanji should definitely be a better match up.
Burgess was quite disappointing on Dressrosa (he got lowdiffed by Sabo before he even had the mera mera) so Ávalo vs Sanji should definitely be a better match up.
Burgess will come back stronger as you think Oda will let me same lvl since then? I highly doubt it and no type of logic with Avalo at all for them to fight.
Sanji and Burgess have one thing in common, they last 10 seconds against Shiryu and Zoro.
Both are one-shot material for swordsmen but against each other, both pairings can make a good fight.
Still, betting on Sanji vs the Corrupt Meow from north blue.
Wasn't Zoro one-shotted by nerf pleasure and fox combo and then Apoo? Yeah he get his ass beat if he even come near big threats at this point while Sanji already got credible stance on facing for in long run.
Sanji vs Shiryu is destined, but Zoro vs someone to his standard of weakness could fit on BB side.
What did I force and what does any of that have to do with anything?
The only thing I said is that I don't agree that Sanji is the only strawhat that could potentially keep up with Kizaru (whenever the crew reaches admiral level).
Calm down.
We know Rayleigh wasn't full power on Kizaru as well, so what's your point?
Wait, I was talking about Zoro and Brook when the crew reaches that level. What you're suggesting is that Sanji, RIGHT NOW, could take Kizaru in a 1vs1? And obviously without RS because you don't think it helps Sanji during fights.
Sanji would be obliterated if he tried to solo Kizaru in this point of the story.
All the strawhats would die if they tried fighting Akainu right now as well.
¿¿¿???
By my logic???
When was my logic that Zoro would be the one fighting the first one to join BB's crew?
Burgess doesn't use swords so that's definetely not my logic.
My logic is that Zoro is always fighting against the swordsmen of other crews.
Always.
Oda was asked about it in a SBS and just joked it off like "SWORDSMEN ATTRACT EACH OTHER".
It's part of Zoro's character arc of becoming the strongest swordsman.
Even in the East Blue, Sanji fought Arlong's second in command Kuroobi while Zoro fought the swordsman, Hatchan.
Zoro usually fights the second stronger, but not always: he fights the swordsman.
I never said Sanji is stronger than everyone unlike you, you can't help to seem to force narration again and again. I don't want to deal with that please if your trying to move on from our last talk.
Pretty sure Rayleigh past his Prime as he even stated about he not young as he used to be, so Kizaru could have beaten him in the end if he was taking anything seriously. Also again your doing force narration as never said right now he can beat him, but talking about WHEN we reach that moment, he will be above Kizaru with RS or not to face him. It take time obviously, but never said right now.
You said trust logic on that he face characters by standards we seen which lead to first mate and weapon-user, but this time not the case as he can't face Shiryu who isn't first mate at all, so again won't happen and for swordsmenship as from past enemies especially NW aren't swordsmen like Hody, Monet, Pica, etc.. Latest takedown from Apoo shows he fight anyone, not just swordsmen.
Oda won't always go standard route as he like surprise, so don't be when he chooses to go for twist on enemies on who they face as neither Sanji always face the fighter character either as he face weapon users or those difference from a fighter. Just saying on how it works in OP when Oda does his pairing at times.
Many use excuse in Zoro will always face first mate type of each major boss and Burgess is that one. Can't change narrative now if you commit as occurrence, so Zoro vs Burgess have the bet especially growing theory he could get Jozu's DF later. Burgess losing to Sabo doesn't mean he won't be stronger later, so can still happen while Sanji vs Shiryu have more sense why it can happen.
"Many" is not I. That's not my logic because I never argued that. You can't say something is my logic because "many others" argued that.
Although Burgess isn't even the second stronger in that crew, even if he joined first.
Which is why Zoro vs Shiryu makes the most sense to me. Zoro vs Burgess would be a an extremely disappointing mis-match-up.
Unless, as I said, there's a swordsman stronger than Shiryu that we have never heard about under BB, but precisely because of how Shiryu was hyped as being "on Magellan level with his swordsmanship alone" he's the perfect candidate for a Zoro match.
Sanji, on the other hand, doesn't have a history of confronting the swordsmen of the enemy crews. Also, the whole point of Sanji going nuts on Absalom was that he was envious of Absalom's ability.
Now that Sanji can turn invisible by other means, I don't see why he would care that much about Shiryu having that DF.
Burgess will come back stronger as you think Oda will let me same lvl since then? I highly doubt it and no type of logic with Avalo at all for them to fight.
"Many" is not I. That's not my logic because I never argued that. You can't say something is my logic because "many others" argued that.
Although Burgess isn't even the second stronger in that crew, even if he joined first.
This is my logic:
Which is why Zoro vs Shiryu makes the most sense to me. Zoro vs Burgess would be a an extremely disappointing mis-match-up.
Unless, as I said, there's a swordsman stronger than Shiryu that we have never heard about under BB, but precisely because of how Shiryu was hyped as being "on Magellan level with his swordsmanship alone" he's the perfect candidate for a Zoro match.
Sanji, on the other hand, doesn't have a history of confronting the swordsmen of the enemy crews. Also, the whole point of Sanji going nuts on Absalom was that he was envious of Absalom's ability.
Now that Sanji can turn invisible by other means, I don't see why he would care that much about Shiryu having that DF.
On these basis I bet on Zoro vs Shiryu.
Even if he gets stronger so will Zoro.
Disappointing mis-match-up.
Not answering your other points since they weren't deter to you. You also missed the points completely and nothing said anything about Shiryu for Zoro only as it's like same excuse for 'he has a sword, so they must fight' I heard over many times with his fans, so not using that as something to believe in.
Got be prepared to see that as someone will face Burgess as doubt Oda won't make him stronger after next encounter and kinda want him to face Zoro while Sanji get Shiryu as it reminds me of OP Movie where they face enemies that they don't usually face while respecting one another who is stronger in said category to respect on their rivalry with one another.
I never said Sanji is stronger than everyone unlike you, you can't help to seem to force narration again and again. I don't want to deal with that please if your trying to move on from our last talk.
I literally quoted and highlighted where you said that twice.
You said Sanji was the only strawhat able to keep up with Kizaru.
And I said, since the beginning, I don't agree with that.
Pretty sure Rayleigh past his Prime as he even stated about he not young as he used to be, so Kizaru could have beaten him in the end if he was taking anything seriously. Also again your doing force narration as never said right now he can beat him, but talking about WHEN we reach that moment, he will be above Kizaru with RS or not to face him. It take time obviously, but never said right now.
Rayleigh was old but that doesn't mean "Kizaru could have just beaten him in the end if he was taking anything seriously".
We know how crazy strong Rayleigh still is. He has some of the better feats in the series and he got those during old-age.
He wasn't serious against Kizaru just like Kizaru wasn't serious against him. They were on a similar level and if Kizaru could have overwhelmed and captured him just by trying a little bit harder he would have done so, but they both refused to go at it seriously because none of them would have come out unscathed and the outcome was unsure for both of them.
Stop with this "You're forcing narration". You're getting seriously annoying with that. I'm being overspecific and justifying everything I say, so don't be an ass.
So you're talking about "When they reach admiral level" but you think Sanji is the only strawhat who will be able to keep with Kizaru and that by when Sanji is above Kizaru, Zoro won't be? Based on what?
You said trust logic on that he face characters by standards we seen which lead to first mate and weapon-user, but this time not the case as he can't face Shiryu who isn't first mate at all, so again won't happen and for swordsmenship as from past enemies especially NW aren't swordsmen like Hody, Monet, Pica, etc.. Latest takedown from Apoo shows he fight anyone, not just swordsmen.
In Fishman Island he took out the octopus swordsman. Pica was a swordsman and Monet was just an effortless win in the middle of an arc. Nice use of "etc" because of lack of more examples.
Of course Zoro can clash with any enemy, for God's sake, but those are just small clashes. We are talking about the serious line ups against a crew and about who will take down who. Zoro's role is always taking down the swordsmen when that time comes. Diamante could be the only exception to this but that was because Kyros needed an opponent.
Oda won't always go standard route as he like surprise, so don't be when he chooses to go for twist on enemies on who they face as neither Sanji always face the fighter character either as he face weapon users or those difference from a fighter. Just saying on how it works in OP when Oda does his pairing at times.
If you want to think that, go ahead, your believe on Shiryu vs Sanji is just as "unjustified" as mine on Shiryu vs Zoro, but Shiryu vs Zoro fits Zoro's battle record throughout the series.
Not answering your other points since they weren't deter to you. You also missed the points completely and nothing said anything about Shiryu for Zoro only as it's like same excuse for 'he has a sword, so they must fight' I heard over many times with his fans, so not using that as something to believe in.
What points did I miss? Enlighten me.
So that pattern that has repeated over an over of Zoro fighting swordsmen is "an excuse" but your baseless expectation for Shiryu vs Sanji is what, then?
Got be prepared to see that as someone will face Burgess as doubt Oda won't make him stronger after next encounter and kinda want him to face Zoro while Sanji get Shiryu as it reminds me of OP Movie where they face enemies that they don't usually face while respecting one another who is stronger in said category to respect on their rivalry with one another.
You're talking about the Monster Island movie?
That was a non canon movie. Entertaining but nothing similar has ever happened in the manga and it would be a waste of a Yonkou crew to have Zoro not fight what could perhaps be his strongest swordsman opponent to date.
Look at my post I said to Moegara. RS isn't decency for him like with his family. We started Raid and didn't need it to fight enemies. If he going to use and if it what we think it is, it be to save Momo from the enemies, not to say he can't be 'blank' without RS. Never he stated on enemies being that strong he need RS for them or power thing. Your panels even show that as he does talk about the stats, but didn't affect his fighting style and power as he doesn't fight different from before. He still fight Black Leg Style and invisibility still doesn't increase your stats other than evasion. I can give maybe durability, but we seen Sanji combat outside suit and doesn't really have issues fighting without it. If he fights, it be because he does as not going change clothing in front of the enemy. That's what I am saying about how he sees it.
1. The raid suits aren't a necessity for his family either. It enhances abilities already exisiting in their modified bodies; speed, durability (and in at least Neji's case, the ability to use his Dengeki Blue electric abilities in ch840). So in the same way Sanji could fight without the suit, his siblings could certainly do the same...it all depends on the calibre of opponent they're facing.
2. Speed is power. The fact that the raid suit has boosters that make you faster means your attacks would land stronger. Do you disagree?
3. Who said anything about the suit altering his fighting style? We're talking about enhancement.
Ultimately my point is this: Sanji displayed more than just invisibility when he wore the suit. Even IF it was just an improvement on his durability, that already makes him a tougher opponent to defeat but also....see point 2. Sanji will use the raid suit again too; it'd be pointless for Oda to introduce something like this if it was only to grant him invisibility, because how often would he need to use that?
In the end Oda chose to showcase him using the suit and getting used to it before any major battles but also as fanservice; introducing a ways for Sanji to be even stronger. Like I said, if it was simply to hide his identity, he could've used a cloth of any kind to cover his face.
I literally quoted and highlighted where you said that twice.
You said Sanji was the only strawhat able to keep up with Kizaru.
And I said, since the beginning, I don't agree with that.
Now I'm sure you're trolling.
Rayleigh was old but that doesn't mean "Kizaru could have just beaten him in the end if he was taking anything seriously".
We know how crazy strong Rayleigh still is. He has some of the better feats in the series and he got those during old-age.
He wasn't serious against Kizaru just like Kizaru wasn't serious against him. They were on a similar level and if Kizaru could have overwhelmed and captured him just by trying a little bit harder he would have done so, but they both refused to go at it seriously because none of them would have come out unscathed and the outcome was unsure for both of them.
Stop with this "You're forcing narration". You're getting seriously annoying with that. I'm being overspecific and justifying everything I say, so don't be an ass.
So you're talking about "When they reach admiral level" but you think Sanji is the only strawhat who will be able to keep with Kizaru by when Sanji is above Kizaru, Zoro won't be? Based on what?
In Fishman Island he took out the octopus swordsman. Pica was a swordsman and Monet was just an effortless win in the middle of an arc. Nice use of "etc" because of lack of more examples.
Of course Zoro can clash with any enemy, for God's sake, but those are just small clashes. We are talking about the serious line ups against a crew and about who will take down who. Zoro's role is always taking down the swordsmen when that time comes. Diamante could be the only exception to this but that was because Kyros needed an opponent.
If you want to think that, go ahead, your believe on Shiryu vs Sanji is just as "unjustified" as mine on Shiryu vs Zoro, but Shiryu vs Zoro fits Zoro's battle record throughout the series.
What points did I miss? Enlighten me.
So that pattern that has repeated over an over of Zoro fighting swordsmen is "an excuse" but your baseless expectation for Shiryu vs Sanji is what, then?
You're talking about the Monster Island movie?
That was a non canon movie. Entertaining but nothing similar has ever happened in the manga and it would be a waste of a Yonkou crew to have Zoro not fight what could perhaps be his strongest swordsman opponent to date.
Yes to fight him while in meantime they facing their own enemies? Luffy vs Akainu, Jimbei vs Ryokugai, and Fujitora vs Zoro? Do you honestly take that I was saying he stronger than Luffy from that phrase? I think I am going to stop here again if your going force narration blows like that as you really do have agenda on you.
Agree to disagree since you can't stop in accusing and force narration again. You haven't proven nothing much on why Zoro face enemies he stated nor his record show he always face weapon users only as again Monet and Pica are out of that type of talk along with Hody to boot too. Not everything stick to standard, so be ready to be surprise later on type of matchups and who face who.
1. The raid suits aren't a necessity for his family either. It enhances abilities already exisiting in their modified bodies; speed, durability (and in at least Neji's case, the ability to use his Dengeki Blue electric abilities in ch840). So in the same way Sanji could fight without the suit, his siblings could certainly do the same...it all depends on the calibre of opponent they're facing.
2. Speed is power. The fact that the raid suit has boosters that make you faster means your attacks would land stronger. Do you disagree?
3. Who said anything about the suit altering his fighting style? We're talking about enhancement.
Ultimately my point is this: Sanji displayed more than just invisibility when he wore the suit. Even IF it was just an improvement on his durability, that already makes him a tougher opponent to defeat but also....see point 2. Sanji will use the raid suit again too; it'd be pointless for Oda to introduce something like this if it was only to grant him invisibility, because how often would he need to use that?
In the end Oda chose to showcase him using the suit and getting used to it before any major battles but also as fanservice; introducing a ways for Sanji to be even stronger. Like I said, if it was simply to hide his identity, he could've used a cloth of any kind to cover his face.
1. Actually they are as you see in every fight to even fighting fodders they need to use RS while Sanji doesn't need it like that on dependency lvl. Plus given how both were raised, Sanji can fight better without having suit compare to them who instead the moment they got out thanks to him to fight without it, go into RS afterwards. We see clear difference on how him and his family fights as it's not the same.
2. He use more his speed in close combat than RS though as first one was testing suit and activating it by accident. He does use boosters, but more so for getting to somewhere than need for fighting with them. I won't denied him not using it like that.
3. I thought you all see enchancement like he will change who he is on how he fights. If not, then my bad. Though still doesn't enhanced everything is what I am saying.
I never said I denied him using the suit again, but it's how and why he will. Few are saying for power while stating it's not the case. For example like many are stating if he comes in to save Momo it because of stealth mission, not because he need suit for power which I don't mind him using it. I am fine with that, but debating against narration of those who think it is because Sanji depends on it for fighting everytime when it's not true. Also no on hiding with simple cloth if your facing someone like PO, clothing can come off especially he has claws to shred them. Sanji would win fight with or without RS, but he need a disguise to hide himself not the need for power.
Wasn't Zoro one-shotted by nerf pleasure and fox combo and then Apoo? Yeah he get his ass beat if he even come near big threats at this point while Sanji already got credible stance on facing for in long run.
Sanji vs Shiryu is destined, but Zoro vs someone to his standard of weakness could fit on BB side.
Sanji Credible-Stance Vinsmoke!
The corrupt cat from North Blue will take the sea over from Sanji if he doesnt power-up seriously.
Burgess could be a good fight as well but combat style is mirroring Franky's more than Sanji's and resembles the Senor Pink fight if Franky isnt using his full arsenal but who knows what Burgess will end up like with DF power-up, maybe he will take Wapol's fruit which could give Franky trouble.
Zoro is the only one who can beat Shiryu if Shiryu's fruit allows him to clear his aura as well, aside from visuals. Breath of all things is the only counter.
The second Ryuma is far above your headcanons, he might end up the most powerful individual of all times if he surpassed the sword god.
Sanji, on the other hand, moved a rank down when Jinbe joined and if Yamato joins, thats another rank down. If Franky and Robin get unchained, that's minus 2 ranks more. Comparing the cook with the future WSS has never been a smart move but a delusion.
Yes to fight him while in meantime they facing their own enemies? Luffy vs Akainu, Jimbei vs Ryokugai, and Fujitora vs Zoro? Do you honestly take that I was saying he stronger than Luffy from that phrase? I think I am going to stop here again if your going force narration blows like that as you really do have agenda on you.
Agaree to disagree since you can't stop in accusing and force narration again. You haven't proven nothing much on why Zoro face enemies he stated nor his record show he always face weapon users only as again Monet and Pica are out of that type of talk along with Hody to boot too. Not everything stick to standard, so be ready to be surprise later on type of matchups and who face who.
Let's get back to the topic of Sanji, even if it's not about the Raid Suit.
And Moe, it's quite hypocritical of you to talk about forced narration when you constantly do it with Zoro and look for any occasions to take cheap shots at him, regardless of proof or logic.
So not only you but everyone else, I don't like all these petty passive aggressive shit. If you disagree with someone, argue their points and quote/show proof where necessary. It's all fun and games until you beging to attack someone's character or make baseless accusations.
Yes to fight him while in meantime they facing their own enemies? Luffy vs Akainu, Jimbei vs Ryokugai, and Fujitora vs Zoro? Do you honestly take that I was saying he stronger than Luffy from that phrase? I think I am going to stop here again if your going force narration blows like that as you really do have agenda on you.
The context that you're adding of Zoro, Luffy and Jimbei being busy wasn't there in the original post. Sanji vs Kizaru was your first suggestion for the matchup because "Sanji is the only one capable of keeping up with Kizaru", before you talked about who the others should fight; and I disagreed with that statement of Sanji being the only one capable. That's all there's to it.
If you meant "Sanji is the only one other than Luffy, Zoro and Jimbei" then perhaps yes, but who says Sanji won't be the one to take on Ryokugai? We still know nothing about the guy and about who would be more suited for the task. And this is thinking Yamato won't be in the crew.
Agaree to disagree since you can't stop in accusing and force narration again. You haven't proven nothing much on why Zoro face enemies he stated nor his record show he always face weapon users only as again Monet and Pica are out of that type of talk along with Hody to boot too. Not everything stick to standard, so be ready to be surprise later on type of matchups and who face who.
1. Hody wasn't Zoro's enemy on Fishman Island. They just had a short silly clash. I JUST reminded you of that on my previous post that Zoro's real fight on that arc was against the octopus swordsman. Literally told you so on the post you're answering to
2. Monet wasn't a match for Zoro nor an important fight of his. Monet was just fodder that Zoro took care of in the middle of an arc.
3. Pica was more about his DF but he was the only other swordsman other than Diamante on that group of main enemies, and Diamante was reserved for Kyro's revenge as a warrior.
I have provided arguments of why Zoro always ends up fighting the important swordsman of enemy crews during the final fights of every arc. Always.
I have provided arguments why Sanji shouldn't have any enmity or interest on Shiryu's invisibility powers.
You have not provided arguments to support Sanji vs Shiryu other than "unexpected things can happen".
You keep being going on about "me forcing narration" every post you make instead of answering to my points or providing actual arguments.
So yeah, I won't agree to disagree, but I'm dropping the talk. It's gotten too distasteful.
Sanji Credible-Stance Vinsmoke!
The corrupt cat from North Blue will take the sea over from Sanji if he doesnt power-up seriously.
Burgess could be a good fight as well but combat style is mirroring Franky's more than Sanji's and resembles the Senor Pink fight if Franky isnt using his full arsenal but who knows what Burgess will end up like with DF power-up, maybe he will take Wapol's fruit which could give Franky trouble.
Zoro is the only one who can beat Shiryu if Shiryu's fruit allows him to clear his aura as well, aside from visuals. Breath of all things is the only counter.
The second Ryuma is far above your headcanons, he might end up the most powerful individual of all times if he surpassed the sword god.
Sanji, on the other hand, moved a rank down when Jinbe joined and if Yamato joins, thats another rank down. If Franky and Robin get unchained, that's minus 2 ranks more. Comparing the cook with the future WSS has never been a smart move but a delusion.
Doesn't make sense at all nor type opponent for him, but I can see for Zoro to work as he need someone like that especially their love for sake, so Zoro vs Catman like Batman is destined more.
Sanji vs Shiryu is more apparent given what Oda is hinting on invisibility progress and SBS hint he stated on Shiryu, so that is more clear the more we see it. What headcannons? I see you unable to admit that Zoro opponent is who you mention and where do Jimbei and Yamato come? Sanji is above them lol, but I know Zoro is below them especially if Yamato does join down the line, so yeah make perfect sense there if your talking about your 'idol'.
Let's get back to the topic of Sanji, even if it's not about the Raid Suit.
And Moe, it's quite hypocritical of you to talk about forced narration when you constantly do it with Zoro and look for any occasions to take cheap shots at him, regardless of proof or logic.
So not only you but everyone else, I don't like all these petty passive aggressive shit. If you disagree with someone, argue their points and quote/show proof where necessary. It's all fun and games until you beging to attack someone's character or make baseless accusations.
I never forced narration, I said legit what happen to Zoro like his performance in Wano which isn't lie as it like that. I even vouch he beat certain people who I thought like Apoo, but I was wrong there.
I don't attack, just said stuff that happen to them and with evidence never without baseless accusation about it at all. You know I don't go into debates unless I am sure on my stance on something instead saying something just for fun.
1. Actually they are as you see in every fight to even fighting fodders they need to use RS while Sanji doesn't need it like that on dependency lvl. Plus given how both were raised, Sanji can fight better without having suit compare to them who instead the moment they got out thanks to him to fight without it, go into RS afterwards. We see clear difference on how him and his family fights as it's not the same.
So by that logic the fact that Niji knocked Sanji out without using his raid suit makes Sanji fodder, right? (ch840)
Sanji can fight with the exact same fighting style with or without the suit. The suit just enhances his physical abilities and grants him additional ones such as the shield cape, floating mechanism, invisibility and boosters.
Sure, Sanji can be stronger than his siblings but again, fighting style isn't what I'm debating here. The point is about him using the raid suit when he comes across an opponent he can't defeat with his own ability and would require more power and durability. Sanji is plenty strong without the suit but Oda having given him this is because he knows there'll come a point he won't be able to win without it.
Sanji's not fighting Shiryu. At the most, they'll clash briefly, but it's exceedingly likely that Shiryu, a man who has a sword, will face off against Zoro, a man who has three swords and fights against other people who have swords often.
I personally think that Sanji will face off against Vasco Shot, mainly because I think Vasco Shot uses Drunken Master Kung Fu as his fighting style since his favorite food is chinese wine (that's often used for cooking as well). If he's revealed to be a chef, then it'll basically be confirmed.
In terms of Admirals, it's hard to say. Kizaru has been paired off with Sanji in an opening and commercials, but there's also Sentomaru who is implied to be pretty high level. There's also the new weapons created by Vegapunk.
The context that you're adding of Zoro, Luffy and Jimbei being busy wasn't there in the original post. Sanji vs Kizaru was your first suggestion for the matchup because "Sanji is the only one capable of keeping up with Kizaru", before you talked about who the others should fight; and I disagreed with that statement of Sanji being the only one capable. That's all there's to it.
If you meant "Sanji is the only one other than Luffy, Zoro and Jimbei" then perhaps yes, but who says Sanji won't be the one to take on Ryokugai? We still know nothing about the guy and about who would be more suited for the task. And this is thinking Yamato won't be in the crew.
1. Hody wasn't Zoro's enemy on Fishman Island. They just had a short silly clash. I JUST reminded you of that on my previous post that Zoro's real fight on that arc was against the octopus swordsman. Literally told you so on the post you're answering to
2. Monet wasn't a match for Zoro nor an important fight of his. Monet was just fodder that Zoro took care of in the middle of an arc.
3. Pica was more about his DF but he was the only other swordsman other than Diamante on that group of main enemies, and Diamante was reserved for Kyro's revenge as a warrior.
I have provided arguments of why Zoro always ends up fighting the important swordsman of enemy crews during the final fights of every arc. Always.
I have provided arguments why Sanji shouldn't have any enmity or interest on Shiryu's invisibility powers.
You have not provided arguments to support Sanji vs Shiryu other than "unexpected things can happen".
You keep being going on about "me forcing narration" every post you make instead of answering to my points or providing actual arguments.
So yeah, I won't agree to disagree, but I'm dropping the talk. It's gotten too distasteful.
Neither context to say Sanji is stronger than them which your pushing on me when never said. So again that where your forcing narration on me saying that when I never did.
I don't see why Sanji wouldn't face him over Kizaru as if Luffy going to be busy with Akainu, we need someone to take on Kizaru to predict and match his speed and power. Sanji is only candidate given Zoro will be busy with Fujitora which is buildup and Jimbei could face Ryokugai given their abilities are good contrast against one another. Idk Yamato would be able to face Admiral, but VA for sure.
Those are still fight and Zoro face them all whether he was serious or not or his first or last fight doesn't remove they were opponents for him and he face non-weapon user to beat. So I am against notion he always face weapon-users which isn't true at all given these characters.
I told to agree to disagree early, but you continue talk with me after I said I was done with you first. Please let this be last time in long time until we can come on better terms on debating.
So by that logic the fact that Niji knocked Sanji out without using his raid suit makes Sanji fodder, right? (ch840)
Sanji can fight with the exact same fighting style with or without the suit. The suit just enhances his physical abilities and grants him additional ones such as the shield cape, floating mechanism, invisibility and boosters.
Sure, Sanji can be stronger than his siblings but again, fighting style isn't what I'm debating here. The point is about him using the raid suit when he comes across an opponent he can't defeat with his own ability and would require more power and durability. Sanji is plenty strong without the suit but Oda having given him this is because he knows there'll come a point he won't be able to win without it.
You mean blackmail to tell him stop fighting and need 2 of his siblings to beat him up during that state? Goldb, please don't use that as evidence as that doesn't make sense.
I know it helps with his stats as I am not denying that, but it doesn't help on everything nor Sanji relies on it to make up of things he can't do for power. He can beat his opponents with or without his suit, but it's more of disguise and situation when he puts it on and got fight with it on. We debating and how and why he use it which isn't sake for power, but for sake for disguise and stealth like if he does come in to save Momo it proves the point he rather use it for stealth missions than for power to face enemy is what I am saying. We will see it's performance in future fights, but just stating it's dependency like you think on him.
Nah, but tell me how Zoro been on how you see him when you were saying he was at start of this arc xD.
Nah like Zoro's Wano opponents he beat his ass in fodder tier if he can't handle even weaker fodder-enemies that lead to his fainting.
Sanji wasn't trying to kill his captain. Why you want that? Nice false fantasy you have. We all know Zoro was one truly trying to kill Luffy and he still failed in that.
Sanji's not fighting Shiryu. At the most, they'll clash briefly, but it's exceedingly likely that Shiryu, a man who has a sword, will face off against Zoro, a man who has three swords and fights against other people who have swords often.
I personally think that Sanji will face off against Vasco Shot, mainly because I think Vasco Shot uses Drunken Master Kung Fu as his fighting style since his favorite food is chinese wine (that's often used for cooking as well). If he's revealed to be a chef, then it'll basically be confirmed.
In terms of Admirals, it's hard to say. Kizaru has been paired off with Sanji in an opening and commercials, but there's also Sentomaru who is implied to be pretty high level. There's also the new weapons created by Vegapunk.
I can respect your opinion on that, eefrit and you make good points, but again using sword excuse is not enough for Zoro and going by traits Sanji and Shiryu dressed like from evil organization, they both have invisibility, they perverse, like to smoke, and so on. So we can push they be final fight for each other just as much. Zoro could get Burgess if it's true he comes back with Jozu's DF as Zoro able to cut diamond would push that narrative more especially if we going first-mate standard to be hold-up as well.
Sanji would be too above VA at that point so Sentomaro proves no challenge to him, but Kizaru can given like you said been hinted on in many advertisements and Oda make no qualms about not liking it as well when they do interactions in games for them to fight like One Piece games: Pirate Warriors, Burning Blood, Unlimited World Red, and so on. Could be bigger hint on Oda on them facing down the line.
