Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[goldb]

I never forced narration, I said legit what happen to Zoro like his performance in Wano which isn't lie as it like that. I even vouch he beat certain people who I thought like Apoo, but I was wrong there.

Remember I asked you this once and you didn't reply, so I'll ask again, do you want me to find your posts about trying to force the Zoro v Kanjuro (and Hiyori's involvement) narrative?

You mean blackmail to tell him stop fighting and need 2 of his siblings to beat him up during that state? Goldb, please don't use that as evidence as that doesn't make sense.

I'm glad you can see the ridiculousness of saying they solely depend on Raid Suit to fight. So now you agree them depending on their raid suit for every fight (despite the fact that they have physical enhancement) doesn't make sense, we can move on.

I know it helps with his stats as I am not denying that, but it doesn't help on everything nor Sanji relies on it to make up of things he can't do for power. He can beat his opponents with or without his suit, but it's more of disguise and situation when he puts it on and got fight with it on. We debating and how and why he use it which isn't sake for power, but for sake for disguise and stealth like if he does come in to save Momo it proves the point he rather use it for stealth missions than for power to face enemy is what I am saying. We will see it's performance in future fights, but just stating it's dependency like you think on him.

Nope, that's not at all what I wrote. THIS is what I wrote:

The point is about him using the raid suit when he comes across an opponent he can't defeat with his own ability and would require more power and durability. Sanji is plenty strong without the suit but Oda having given him this is because he knows there'll come a point he won't be able to win without it.

So where does it say in my post that Sanji is dependent on the Raid suit? The quote above is what we're debating but now again you're putting words in my mouth.

As for power, your previous response was this:

2. He use more his speed in close combat than RS though as first one was testing suit and activating it by accident. He does use boosters, but more so for getting to somewhere than need for fighting with them. I won't denied him not using it like that.

So basically what you're saying is Sanji put on the suit, accidentally activated the boosters, knowing it makes him move faster but right before attacking Page One thought to himself "you know what, we won't be needing this, let's slow down"?

Despite all that the suit can do, Sanji will just be using it to disguise himself and become invisible during battle? it brings him no other benefits? Alright, fair enough.

 

[afromarco005]

If you don't like Sanji, I don't care, but not going to let you force narration on the character either on how he fights, who he beaten, how he use RS, why it different than how he family do theirs, etc.. I don't want to do this knowing someone have something personal against character as it only lead to us endless talk and debating with no solution. You have your own opinion, I have mine. Let's leave it at that overall.

That's rich coming from you Moe, you who go out of your way to undermine certain characters on as many threads as you can.

You should practise what you preach.

On another note you are famous for using arguments like "majority thinks" etc even going as far as claiming that polls (still waiting for those btw) confirms what you claim, so please be honest.

Finally liking a character =/= said character being unbelievably strong or unbeatable.

You seem to have made sanji a flawless and unbeatable character in your mind and whenever someone points out a flaw of the character, or state that he isnt as strong as you envinsioned him to be you are offended.

Sanji's flaws and weaknesses are what make him so interesting, and he is far from the character you have created in your imagination

 

[M3J]

Neither context to say Sanji is stronger than them which your pushing on me when never said. So again that where your forcing narration on me saying that when I never did.

I don't see why Sanji wouldn't face him over Kizaru as if Luffy going to be busy with Akainu, we need someone to take on Kizaru to predict and match his speed and power. Sanji is only candidate given Zoro will be busy with Fujitora which is buildup and Jimbei could face Ryokugai given their abilities are good contrast against one another. Idk Yamato would be able to face Admiral, but VA for sure.

Those are still fight and Zoro face them all whether he was serious or not or his first or last fight doesn't remove they were opponents for him and he face non-weapon user to beat. So I am against notion he always face weapon-users which isn't true at all given these characters.

I told to agree to disagree early, but you continue talk with me after I said I was done with you first. Please let this be last time in long time until we can come on better terms on debating.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 26, 2020 ---

You mean blackmail to tell him stop fighting and need 2 of his siblings to beat him up during that state? Goldb, please don't use that as evidence as that doesn't make sense.

I know it helps with his stats as I am not denying that, but it doesn't help on everything nor Sanji relies on it to make up of things he can't do for power. He can beat his opponents with or without his suit, but it's more of disguise and situation when he puts it on and got fight with it on. We debating and how and why he use it which isn't sake for power, but for sake for disguise and stealth like if he does come in to save Momo it proves the point he rather use it for stealth missions than for power to face enemy is what I am saying. We will see it's performance in future fights, but just stating it's dependency like you think on him.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2020 ---

Nah, but tell me how Zoro been on how you see him when you were saying he was at start of this arc xD.

Nah like Zoro's Wano opponents he beat his ass in fodder tier if he can't handle even weaker fodder-enemies that lead to his fainting.

Sanji wasn't trying to kill his captain. Why you want that? Nice false fantasy you have. We all know Zoro was one truly trying to kill Luffy and he still failed in that.

Fantasy, not canon.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2020 ---

I can respect your opinion on that, eefrit and you make good points, but again using sword excuse is not enough for Zoro and going by traits Sanji and Shiryu dressed like from evil organization, they both have invisibility, they perverse, like to smoke, and so on. So we can push they be final fight for each other just as much. Zoro could get Burgess if it's true he comes back with Jozu's DF as Zoro able to cut diamond would push that narrative more especially if we going first-mate standard to be hold-up as well.

Sanji would be too above VA at that point so Sentomaro proves no challenge to him, but Kizaru can given like you said been hinted on in many advertisements and Oda make no qualms about not liking it as well when they do interactions in games for them to fight like One Piece games: Pirate Warriors, Burning Blood, Unlimited World Red, and so on. Could be bigger hint on Oda on them facing down the line.

Why the hell would you think Sanji would fight a swordsman? When has he ever fought a swordsman as his main opponent? Similar personalities don't mean much, it's about fighting style and strength, and Shiryuu is an extremely powerful swordsman who'll be going up against another swordsman like Zoro. The only way Shiryuu will become Sanji's opponent is if Shiryuu loses his sword or if Sanji becomes a swordsman.

If anything, Franky will fight Burgess, but Sanji will either fight the third strongest or fourth, or the strongest or next strongest non-sword user who isn't the captain. When have we ever seen Zoro not fight a swordsman or Sanji fight a swordsman as their arc enemy?

 

[King Moe]

Why the hell would you think Sanji would fight a swordsman? When has he ever fought a swordsman as his main opponent? Similar personalities don't mean much, it's about fighting style and strength, and Shiryuu is an extremely powerful swordsman who'll be going up against another swordsman like Zoro. The only way Shiryuu will become Sanji's opponent is if Shiryuu loses his sword or if Sanji becomes a swordsman.

If anything, Franky will fight Burgess, but Sanji will either fight the third strongest or fourth, or the strongest or next strongest non-sword user who isn't the captain. When have we ever seen Zoro not fight a swordsman or Sanji fight a swordsman as their arc enemy?

Why would he be afraid or doesn't want to fight one when in Wano we have so many opponents holding weapons, so don't get why people think Sanji and extension to Luffy wont try fighting them when they fight with their bodies. That won't stop them facing them and if Oda push against them. He already have them face weapon opponents before, so I don't see why to zero out conversation about it.

Zoro's excuse for having weapon is not good enough to face someone just because as we seen already face enemies who are not weapon users and he still face them, so Idk why it should be is unable to face someone like Shiryu for his sword. It be tough fight, yeah, but it won't stop him beating someone with weapon.

Again hard to say as standard also shows Zoro face first-mate under the major boss which is Burgess and with theory about him getting Jozu's fruit I can see why Zoro vs Burgess can happen while Sanji vs Shiryu can happen as well. Not all the time Oda is standard on who they face as not always straight line on who they face every time.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 27, 2020 ---

That's rich coming from you Moe, you who go out of your way to undermine certain characters on as many threads as you can.

You should practise what you preach.

On another note you are famous for using arguments like "majority thinks" etc even going as far as claiming that polls (still waiting for those btw) confirms what you claim, so please be honest.

Finally liking a character =/= said character being unbelievably strong or unbeatable.

You seem to have made sanji a flawless and unbeatable character in your mind and whenever someone points out a flaw of the character, or state that he isnt as strong as you envinsioned him to be you are offended.

Sanji's flaws and weaknesses are what make him so interesting, and he is far from the character you have created in your imagination

Weren't you doing troll posts onto me when I said something against your imagination claims cause you don't have anything to back on yourself? Please don't be hypocritical on your end and practice on what you preach debates yourself. You don't have any right to lecture someone when you have your own issues on the matter.

I haven't use majority thinks for long while since last talk, so Idk why that was brought up.

Nah, he has his flaws, but here is difference between you and me. I can admit them, but when someone state something on Zoro you can never admit it no even once. I can see that in your past posts to even on this thread discussion here is more bashing on Sanji than unbiased talk when you first created when I saw your old posts. Your confusing on being critic and biased as never said Sanji was perfect character as I do accept everything about him from what's good and bad, but I am legit about it more than you stating 'Zoro killing Kaido' or anything to make Zoro look good when it's non-factual at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 27, 2020 ---

Remember I asked you this once and you didn't reply, so I'll ask again, do you want me to find your posts about trying to force the Zoro v Kanjuro (and Hiyori's involvement) narrative?



I'm glad you can see the ridiculousness of saying they solely depend on Raid Suit to fight. So now you agree them depending on their raid suit for every fight (despite the fact that they have physical enhancement) doesn't make sense, we can move on.



Nope, that's not at all what I wrote. THIS is what I wrote:



So where does it say in my post that Sanji is dependent on the Raid suit? The quote above is what we're debating but now again you're putting words in my mouth.

As for power, your previous response was this:



So basically what you're saying is Sanji put on the suit, accidentally activated the boosters, knowing it makes him move faster but right before attacking Page One thought to himself "you know what, we won't be needing this, let's slow down"?

Despite all that the suit can do, Sanji will just be using it to disguise himself and become invisible during battle? it brings him no other benefits? Alright, fair enough.

Never force, I said possibility since again if you seen female roles for Princess character they can be involve again and Zoro given how he was treated with bond with her, could come into conflict. I never said it will happen, but possibility from evidence looking at Vivi, Viola, Pudding, and Rebecca as we saw their interactions with Luffy and Sanji. Why would Zoro be different from not being in same role as them?

Why use their RS when they told someone not to fight back? That isn't same situation when your in real battle and your opponent won't stop just because of what you say. You can't use those as same situations of serious fight to blackmail fight. His siblings are shown each time in real fights, they need RS which is canon as never see them beat any of BMP members without their RS once in the manga.

Your saying he dependent on using it on his notable enemies here on out to defeat them with RS. I am just saying not every case it be like that as how he brought out so far, he never said he need RS or thinks about having it for his fights. Only time he use it for fight was for PO, but only for sole purpose of disguise. It shows in one of his fights with Drake within it he never doubted himself and needed suit to face him or can't beat without him. I am just on dependency lvl on how and why he will use it. Isn't that why we started out talk? I don't disagree he won't use it as he will, but just matter of why.

I said he still use it, but more to getting to somewhere fast than need for fighting when we saw already he has good speed from going to get Momo and back to protect the others (Nami) when Kanjuro releases those ship-destroying ink arrows and tank them without injury as body shield in time. His speed been good without or with RS, so just saying not truly boosters and could be his natural speed in the fight as he did blitz down PO prior without suit.

It has it uses and does help with certain stats, but just saying you can see it's not truly more on offensive if it's major purpose of all is invisibility compare to his siblings who 3 of them get elemental boost and 1 with physical boost on main point of their creation while he gets just invisibility. It's hitting Sanji will have to still train his own body to increase attack power more as we both know invisibility helps on evasion, but not his power. Do you see difference and comparing to his siblings on the difference of their RS overall?

 

[M3J]

Why would he be afraid or doesn't want to fight one when in Wano we have so many opponents holding weapons, so don't get why people think Sanji and extension to Luffy wont try fighting them when they fight with their bodies. That won't stop them facing them and if Oda push against them. He already have them face weapon opponents before, so I don't see why to zero out conversation about it.

Zoro's excuse for having weapon is not good enough to face someone just because as we seen already face enemies who are not weapon users and he still face them, so Idk why it should be is unable to face someone like Shiryu for his sword. It be tough fight, yeah, but it won't stop him beating someone with weapon.

Again hard to say as standard also shows Zoro face first-mate under the major boss which is Burgess and with theory about him getting Jozu's fruit I can see why Zoro vs Burgess can happen while Sanji vs Shiryu can happen as well. Not all the time Oda is standard on who they face as not always straight line on who they face every time.

When did I ever say he'd be afraid or not want to fight a swordsman? Most of these swordsmen aren't going to be top tier opponents for the Straw Hats whereas someone like Shiryuu is a top tier opponent, and given Zoro's goal to be the world's strongest swordsman, it'll be Zoro who fights Shiryuu, not Sanji. Again, provide proof without talking about this arc, where we haven't seen Sanji go up against a tough swordsman in the first place. Plus, who has LUffy gone up against that was a top tier swordsman as well in their own crew?

Er, it is a good enough reason, along with his goal, as to why he'll face top swordsmen of any and all crew. Not only that, but this has been one constant thing throughout the series - Zoro facing off against the strongest swordsman of the crew while Sanji faces the strongest fighter of the crew after the captain. Why would Oda change this?

Nope, it won't be ZOro vs. Burgess. It'll be Zoro vs. Shiryuu or whoever's the top swordsman of Blackbeard's crew. Sanji may fight Shiryuu, but they won't be opponents for each other.

 

[King Moe]

When did I ever say he'd be afraid or not want to fight a swordsman? Most of these swordsmen aren't going to be top tier opponents for the Straw Hats whereas someone like Shiryuu is a top tier opponent, and given Zoro's goal to be the world's strongest swordsman, it'll be Zoro who fights Shiryuu, not Sanji. Again, provide proof without talking about this arc, where we haven't seen Sanji go up against a tough swordsman in the first place. Plus, who has LUffy gone up against that was a top tier swordsman as well in their own crew?

Er, it is a good enough reason, along with his goal, as to why he'll face top swordsmen of any and all crew. Not only that, but this has been one constant thing throughout the series - Zoro facing off against the strongest swordsman of the crew while Sanji faces the strongest fighter of the crew after the captain. Why would Oda change this?

Nope, it won't be ZOro vs. Burgess. It'll be Zoro vs. Shiryuu or whoever's the top swordsman of Blackbeard's crew. Sanji may fight Shiryuu, but they won't be opponents for each other.

Well his performance with Daifuku is top-tier threat and he was able to stop him from destroy ship on his blade, so with that evidence he can handle top tier weapon-user if he does face one and could face one again during this arc. Plus not first time Sanji face someone with weapon and he still bested them from pre-timeskip to post-timeskip.

I know, but still we have seen Hody, Monet, and especially Pica doesn't scream 'dream material' for his goal, so should be taken he will face others not about swordsmanship in future. Same with Sanji who won't face every fighter character every time either is what I mean. Also technically if we comparing on enemies, Sanji had trouble NW enemies than Zoro did, so it kinda changing away from that standard as we seen, so not really case every arc.

Agree to Disgaree as I can see either way about it for Zoro, but you go play factor of Burgess too as Oda wouldn't leave him same state as before and can get stronger, so let see as Sanji vs Shiryu can still happen between them.

 

[M3J]

Well his performance with Daifuku is top-tier threat and he was able to stop him from destroy ship on his blade, so with that evidence he can handle top tier weapon-user if he does face one and could face one again during this arc. Plus not first time Sanji face someone with weapon and he still bested them from pre-timeskip to post-timeskip.

I know, but still we have seen Hody, Monet, and especially Pica doesn't scream 'dream material' for his goal, so should be taken he will face others not about swordsmanship in future. Same with Sanji who won't face every fighter character every time either is what I mean. Also technically if we comparing on enemies, Sanji had trouble NW enemies than Zoro did, so it kinda changing away from that standard as we seen, so not really case every arc.

Agree to Disgaree as I can see either way about it for Zoro, but you go play factor of Burgess too as Oda wouldn't leave him same state as before and can get stronger, so let see as Sanji vs Shiryu can still happen between them.

Daifuku was never Sanji's opponent of the arc though, they just had short skirmishes. Point still stands. In fact, the only one with an actual fight was Luffy in that arc, and he had two fights. Sanji has not fought a top tier swordsman of opponent crew or the strongest swordsman of the crew, it's usually Zoro and/or Brook that have. Give me an actual fight, like Sanji vs. the ramen guy on Puffing Tom.

Hody wasn't Zoro's opponent, the 8-armed swordsman was. Hody recovered and went on to fight Luffy while the swordsman fought Zoro. Monet was also there to hype up Zoro's killing intent while also having Tashigi fight her. Pica was a challenge due to how he fought, but Zoro impressed enough people when he cut through stone numerous times. When it comes to crews like Blackbeard, he's definitely facing the top swordsman of the opponent's crew, while Sanji's taking on the top or second top underling that's not a swordsman. One can also argue Sanji wasn't strong enough so he had trouble, whereas Zoro's at a high enough tier that he had easy enough opponents.

Nope, Sanji and Shiryuu won't happen unless both have swords or neither has swords. If Burgess gets stronger, then he'll be the one to fight Sanji. Zoro is also going to fight the top swordsman, if not a swordsman, and that's a fact. Unless Burgess picks up a sword, he's not going to be Zoro's opponent. Even if weak, Zoro's opponents even after the timeskip have all been swordsmen or used some sort of sword/dagger.

There literally is no reason for anyone to think Sanji will fight the top swordsman as his opponent, even if he does fight a swordsman. Sanji also often has a hand-to-hand fighter as his opponent, from Bon to Page One.

 

[Nie Li]

Let's just review who the main opponent for each arc has been for Zoro and for Sanji.

Buggy's Crew
Zoro vs Kabaji
No Sanji

Baratie
Zoro vs Mihawk
Sanji vs Gin

Arlong Park
Zoro vs Hatchan
Sanji vs Kuroobi

Baroque Works
Zoro vs Mr.1
Sanji vs Mr.2

Skypiea
Zoro vs Ohm
Sanji vs Satori?

Enies Lobby
Zoro vs Kaku
Sanji vs Jyabura

Thriller Bark
Zoro vs Ryuuma
Sanji vs Absalom

Dressrosa
Zoro vs Pica
Sanji vs ...?

Spoiler: Pica

These have been the big fights throughout the series. Small clashes don't count. Fights Wanze or that Cipher Pol Boxer on the train or Luffy vs Blueno were just small and non-important, and even then usually it's Sanji vs brawlers and Zoro vs swordsmen (T-Bone in this case).

Fights like those or Zoro vs Monet are just small confrontations whose only purpose is to hype up the winner's power. Monet wasn't a match for Zoro, that was just Zoro taking out what was fodder for him. He showed how he only needed a small cut on the cheek, his killer instinct and his intimidation to play with Monet's mind and defeat her without actually having to hurt her. He was so superior to her that he could just choose to play around with her in this way and with only one of his swords and defeat her effortlessly, while also making sure she knows he could have just as easily cut her in half for real.

Zoro's end-of-arc fights have always been against the strongest swordsman in the enemy crew, while Sanji confronts an enemy brawler (except for Absalom's bazookas, but those aren't swords anyway).

Shiryu is one of the main commanders of BB's crew, and even among them he's one of the most hyped up, so it's clear as day that Shiryu will be an end-of-arc fight and not just some small fry to beat before the final, real fights or whatever arc he's in.

Some of Zoro's main fights haven't been against "pure" swordsmen:
- Ohm didn't have much skill with the sword itself and took pride on being a tamer;
- Kaku mixed rokushiki's into his swordplay and was trying out his giraffe fruit in the middle of the fight;
- Pica was easily overpowered by Zoro as a swordsman and soon decided to rely on his powerful Devil Fruit.
Even so, all three of them shared the same important trait: They were the strongest swordsmen of the enemy teams.

Shiryu is not only the strongest swordsman of Blackbeard's crew, he also IS a pure swordsman that has been extremely hyped up because of his swordsmanship before he had the invisibility fruit.
The arc are very long and so the main fights are actually few in the end. BB's confrontation will be the end of a big arc and one of the most important confrontations in the series, after which there won't be many opponents left before Zoro vs Mihawk and the end of the series. Perhaps only Shank's crew and the WG.

It would be a catastrophic waste to miss the opportunity for Zoro vs Shiryu and to waste Zoro on a different commander.

Now, about who Sanji could possibly fight in place of Shiryu, I don't know, but since Ávalo Pizarro was once a king in the North Blue just like Sanji's father, I bet there'll be some connection between them that makes them a good match option.

Ávalo seems to have strong arms so he's probably a puncher but we don't know his abilities nor if he has a fruit, so let's just wait to see if he's really suited to be Sanji's main fight.

 

[afromarco005]

Weren't you doing troll posts onto me when I said something against your imagination claims cause you don't have anything to back on yourself? Please don't be hypocritical on your end and practice on what you preach debates yourself. You don't have any right to lecture someone when you have your own issues on the matter.

I merely used your own argument against you. You're telling someone to do something when you do the complete opposite yourself.

I haven't use majority thinks for long while since last talk, so Idk why that was brought up.

You where quoting other members as if their opinions were confirmation for what you said earlier, it's not the first time you do such things so I pointed it out.

Nah, he has his flaws, but here is difference between you and me. I can admit them, but when someone state something on Zoro you can never admit it no even once. I can see that in your past posts to even on this thread discussion here is more bashing on Sanji than unbiased talk when you first created when I saw your old posts. Your confusing on being critic and biased as never said Sanji was perfect character as I do accept everything about him from what's good and bad, but I am legit about it more than you stating 'Zoro killing Kaido' or anything to make Zoro look good when it's non-factual at all.

You are so dishonest dude, you are often wrong (me too mind you) but you almost never admit that you are wrong even when provided with facts and logic. Instead you will ignore every valid points someone makes and respond with a wall of text that doesn't adress the issues mentioned by the other party which results in endless and repetitive debates that go nowhere.
Some of your arguments like "Zoro lost to nerf pleasures and batman", "nails" or "Sanji will solo King and queen without raidsuit" have been debunked so many times yet you keep using them every chance you get.

You should read your own posts, Moe you defend every little things about sanji even when it goes against what the manga said or what he said himself it's your favourite character I get that but sometimes he can f*** up too. And it's okay.

Never force, I said possibility since again if you seen female roles for Princess character they can be involve again and Zoro given how he was treated with bond with her, could come into conflict. I never said it will happen, but possibility from evidence looking at Vivi, Viola, Pudding, and Rebecca as we saw their interactions with Luffy and Sanji. Why would Zoro be different from not being in same role as them?

It seems like your memory is failing you, you should reread recent chapter discussion threads (and many other threads you posted in) you have claimed that "Sanji will fight King and Zoro will fight Kanjuro and Orachi more" too many times to count.

Anyways where do you think that Sanji went to?

 

[HereNThere]

I don't know how this turned into a discussion about arc structure or whatever, but it has nothing to do with Sanji.

I'll probably be taking a lawn mower through this thread later as it has slowly turned into a Zoro/Sanji debate.

 

[King Moe]

Just saying I see potential of later fight for Sanji vs Kizaru as that would be interesting to see. Would be kinda like DB type of fight, but more logical with the writing.

 

[thedude]

Let's just review who the main opponent for each arc has been for Zoro and for Sanji.

Buggy's Crew
Zoro vs Kabaji
No Sanji

Baratie
Zoro vs Mihawk
Sanji vs Gin

Arlong Park
Zoro vs Hatchan
Sanji vs Kuroobi

Baroque Works
Zoro vs Mr.1
Sanji vs Mr.2

Skypiea
Zoro vs Ohm
Sanji vs Satori?

Enies Lobby
Zoro vs Kaku
Sanji vs Jyabura

Thriller Bark
Zoro vs Ryuuma
Sanji vs Absalom

Dressrosa
Zoro vs Pica
Sanji vs ...?

Spoiler: Pica

These have been the big fights throughout the series. Small clashes don't count. Fights Wanze or that Cipher Pol Boxer on the train or Luffy vs Blueno were just small and non-important, and even then usually it's Sanji vs brawlers and Zoro vs swordsmen (T-Bone in this case).

Fights like those or Zoro vs Monet are just small confrontations whose only purpose is to hype up the winner's power. Monet wasn't a match for Zoro, that was just Zoro taking out what was fodder for him. He showed how he only needed a small cut on the cheek, his killer instinct and his intimidation to play with Monet's mind and defeat her without actually having to hurt her. He was so superior to her that he could just choose to play around with her in this way and with only one of his swords and defeat her effortlessly, while also making sure she knows he could have just as easily cut her in half for real.

Zoro's end-of-arc fights have always been against the strongest swordsman in the enemy crew, while Sanji confronts an enemy brawler (except for Absalom's bazookas, but those aren't swords anyway).

Shiryu is one of the main commanders of BB's crew, and even among them he's one of the most hyped up, so it's clear as day that Shiryu will be an end-of-arc fight and not just some small fry to beat before the final, real fights or whatever arc he's in.

Some of Zoro's main fights haven't been against "pure" swordsmen:
- Ohm didn't have much skill with the sword itself and took pride on being a tamer;
- Kaku mixed rokushiki's into his swordplay and was trying out his giraffe fruit in the middle of the fight;
- Pica was easily overpowered by Zoro as a swordsman and soon decided to rely on his powerful Devil Fruit.
Even so, all three of them shared the same important trait: They were the strongest swordsmen of the enemy teams.

Shiryu is not only the strongest swordsman of Blackbeard's crew, he also IS a pure swordsman that has been extremely hyped up because of his swordsmanship before he had the invisibility fruit.
The arc are very long and so the main fights are actually few in the end. BB's confrontation will be the end of a big arc and one of the most important confrontations in the series, after which there won't be many opponents left before Zoro vs Mihawk and the end of the series. Perhaps only Shank's crew and the WG.

It would be a catastrophic waste to miss the opportunity for Zoro vs Shiryu and to waste Zoro on a different commander.

Now, about who Sanji could possibly fight in place of Shiryu, I don't know, but since Ávalo Pizarro was once a king in the North Blue just like Sanji's father, I bet there'll be some connection between them that makes them a good match option.

Ávalo seems to have strong arms so he's probably a puncher but we don't know his abilities nor if he has a fruit, so let's just wait to see if he's really suited to be Sanji's main fight.

Agreed 100%. I think Oda has clearly setup BB's crew to each have a counterpart in the SH crew.

Luffy vs BB (obviously)
Zoro vs Shiryu (swordsmen)
Jinbe vs Burgess (Helmsmen)
Chopper vs Doc Q (Doctors)
Usopp vs Van Augur (Snipers)
Nami vs Lafitte (I thought he'd make a great matchup vs Brook, but he's the Navigator, so Nami it is!)
Sanjuan Wolf vs Franky (Colossal Battleship vs Shipright...i'm reaching here lol).

And then you have Sanji. I think you make a great point - Pizarro is a king from North Blue, like Sanji's father. He seems like the perfect opponent for Sanji. Makes way more sense than Shiryu.

 

[Nie Li]

Agreed 100%. I think Oda has clearly setup BB's crew to each have a counterpart in the SH crew.

Luffy vs BB (obviously)
Zoro vs Shiryu (swordsmen)
Jinbe vs Burgess (Helmsmen)
Chopper vs Doc Q (Doctors)
Usopp vs Van Augur (Snipers)
Nami vs Lafitte (I thought he'd make a great matchup vs Brook, but he's the Navigator, so Nami it is!)
Sanjuan Wolf vs Franky (Colossal Battleship vs Shipright...i'm reaching here lol).

And then you have Sanji. I think you make a great point - Pizarro is a king from North Blue, like Sanji's father. He seems like the perfect opponent for Sanji. Makes way more sense than Shiryu.

Good matchups.

Usopp vs Van Augur is a must. Augur is the only sniper in the series with more exaggerated feats than Usopp, other than Yasopp's implied accuracy.

BB has "Ten Titanic Commanders", right? That means there's one for each Strawhat if there're 11 strawhats.

I read over the ending of Marineford again and Ávalo took a clean hit from the gura gura no mi and another one from Sengoku's daibatsu form's shockwaves and he was still doing fine. That means even two years ago he was already a top tier fighter at least in his physical resilience. I think he would be a great fight for physical confrontation with Sanji.

 

[thedude]

Good matchups.

Usopp vs Van Augur is a must. Augur is the only sniper in the series with more exaggerated feats than Usopp, other than Yasopp's implied accuracy.

BB has "Ten Titanic Commanders", right? That means there's one for each Strawhat if there're 11 strawhats.

I read over the ending of Marineford again and Ávalo took a clean hit from the gura gura no mi and another one from Sengoku's daibatsu form's shockwaves and he was still doing fine. That means even two years ago he was already a top tier fighter at least in his physical resilience. I think he would be a great fight for physical confrontation with Sanji.

I think they all took those hits, BB's crew is all top tier, which is why all of the SH's will be technically YC level after they fight, because they have to each beat one.

I forgot to put Robin vs Devon, and then I guess Brook vs Vasco Shot (Lafitte would be better, he seems like a fencer, but I'm sticking to my "job vs job" as much as I can lol).

I think Sanji is close to their already, this arc should be the time he and Zoro ascend to that YC level (Jinbe is already there in my eyes).

 

[kkck]

Agreed 100%. I think Oda has clearly setup BB's crew to each have a counterpart in the SH crew.

Luffy vs BB (obviously)
Zoro vs Shiryu (swordsmen)
Jinbe vs Burgess (Helmsmen)
Chopper vs Doc Q (Doctors)
Usopp vs Van Augur (Snipers)
Nami vs Lafitte (I thought he'd make a great matchup vs Brook, but he's the Navigator, so Nami it is!)
Sanjuan Wolf vs Franky (Colossal Battleship vs Shipright...i'm reaching here lol).

And then you have Sanji. I think you make a great point - Pizarro is a king from North Blue, like Sanji's father. He seems like the perfect opponent for Sanji. Makes way more sense than Shiryu.

I suppose those matchups make the most sense. On the other hand, I am more in the camp that zoro's position in the crew is first mate rather than swordsman. Zoro usually does fight the swordsman who also happens to be second in command but shiryu being second in command of the BB pirates is a bit weird considering he is one of the newer members.

And.... the BB pirates are considere actual yonko so its kinda hard to imagine half the strawhats holding their own against them. Luffy, zoro, jinbe and sanji are relevant by new world standards but that isn't necessarily the case yet for franky, brook, nami, ussop, chopper and robin. Their strength is definitely not yonko commander level at least. The strawhats are not yet at a point where they could face any yonko's main crew by themselves and come out on top IMO.

That would leave brook an robin... Robin makes sense against katarina. And brook vs.... basco? I suppose drunkard vs gentleman makes some amount of sense. I am also not sure if BB is considered one of the ten titanic captains or not. I suppose it makes sense that he isn't since his rank is different but on the other hand that means there is a missing BB titan.

 

[King Moe]

Don't see much Sanji vs Avalo as not really much conflict of interests compare with Shiryu who if we remember how he reacted to Abasalom having the DF, Sanji wouldn't let him get away from him and wants to fight him. Don't see him giving it to Zoro and more him taking on Avalo as feel Sake be involve in there confrontations among other reasons, but feeling more Burgess could make a combat as just because he lost to Sabo doesn't mean he done fighting or he won't get stronger next time. Knowing Oda he has something in mind for him. If the theory for Jozu's DF or something that relate to challenge to Zoro's swordsmanship, it will happen again and plus standard he usual face the first mate-like of the crew. Burgess is that, so doubtful Oda will waste facing someone lower when he building BB Pirates to be another threat entirely on each of them.

Also Idk if Jimbei be high up there as given he already reach his Prime, Sanji and Zoro will be above him when facing BB Pirates given they are younger and more room to grow.

 

[Nie Li]

Don't see much Sanji vs Avalo as not really much conflict of interests compare with Shiryu who if we remember how he reacted to Abasalom having the DF, Sanji wouldn't let him get away from him and wants to fight him.

But wasn't Sanji's reaction towards Absalom one of jealousy because he wanted the power to become invisible for himself?
And also the whole thing about Abaslom trying to force Nami into marrying him.

Now Sanji already has the power to become invisible. He has already achieved that dream, by his own words. So please do explain why you think he would react against Shiryu now in a similar way to how he reacted to Absalom?

 

[HereNThere]

We're not doing this again today. Move on.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji vs Kizaru
Sanji vs Shiryu

That's what I feel how fights will be in those respective arcs.

 

[HereNThere]

Sanji vs Kizaru
Sanji vs Shiryu

That's what I feel how fights will be in those respective arcs.

Leave it at that.