Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[Blakestnight666]

1-I translated tweet literally in multiple sources and it said it what i posted above. if u really want to prove. I m lying or deliberately misleading bring me the original japanese answer from the interview with source and i will concur on him being as strong as shin godzilla part.

Also, keyword in there for a long time, means author might have stated before.
2-U still didn't nullify the source tht states tht he would take as much time as godzilla would take to destroy eurasia. And tht too is not my headcanon but literal translation of the tweet.

So, once again, i would say, if it is equivalent to godzilla destroying eurasia, even tht would take some time as in few days.

https://matomame.jp/user/FrenchToast/7213871fd493f88377ac
https://rezero.wiki.fc2.com/wiki/askまとめ　ランキング
3- Trick u ? No need for name calling and be offensive here . I took literal tweet and translated it, But good now u made me look up source.
2014 or arnd it clearly states tht author called difference between subaru and reinhard too. Basically, u ignored whole post or let's say conveniently decided to ignore as to the actual strength comparison when i asked abt it.

Author states difference between subaru and reinhard is comparable to difference between a high school girl and godzilla. And as we know subaru is one of the weakest character in the series. Petra's Pl was stated to be 1. u can based on tht decide where subaru stands and where reinhars stands.

Still does it equal vegeta who can destroy more than solar system in SSJ2 ? No, and now SSJ blue.

So, my argument still stands as it is.

Reinhard which can destroy Od Laguna is at best u can decide his durability a world destroyer where as Saiyans have been planet destroyer since ages and since they were just 8k PL.



The only thing headcanon is ur denial when it is clearly stated tht he intentionally doesn't want to use it. Is IT one time use technique tht u forget after one use ? No
There is clear difference between not wanting to use it and actually being unable to use it

Trick ? I have addressed tht above. I literally translated tweet for what it was.
And no u need to invent scenarios or factually hide infos like say for blessing of Phoenix. did u mention there is a condition for it ?

Q: Please give me more details on the protection of the phoenix!

A: As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear.

Really now ? in a battle between 2 characters, u r relying on voice of someone to resurrect and u r telling DB fans r inventing scenarios ?
So, if noone is asking for help, he won't resurrect and he will die. Correct ? Stop relying on 3rd characters and actually just hiding infos.
Now as for source
https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397

So, sorry, but this immortality via resurrection is BS and not applicable here since it relies on 3rd character.


Even Majin buu with just a scream ripped apart holes in dimensions...so nothing new here for DB chaarcters.


Once again, u r really not giving complete info . Like i said, the divine blessing of protection of phoenix only works and is reliant on 3rd party asking for help, so, here does not apply, so he is not immortal.

No, he can die. As long as noone wishes for help from him, he could be killed never to be resurrected and then od laguna can be destroyed pre, post or during battle too.

Tht is the play here...he deliberately hides info. Divine protection of Phoenix relies on the people actually seeking for help...it clearly states tht as long as someone needs help, meaning 3rd party and is not applicable here in battle of 2 characters. Vegeta kills him, blasting the sun and there is no voice tht needs his help, he is not gonna resurrect.

And let's be clear rezero world has only earth and moon, so now expanding it to universe tier is just him trying to play with words here/

Let's not put words in other people's mouths , which shows u r insecure.
A character's light speed was stated by the author. A character moving more than the speed of light was portrayed by the author
A character actually being able to destroy solar system - author made the character say it
And magnitude of those attacks once again had numerical value until frieza's 2nd pre final transformation. After which, time and time again, it was protrayed tht their clashes had tht magnitude

So, yes, DB fans will say they will overpower in physicality. Has Reinhard shown a single physical attack tht is felt in completely different planetary systems ?
U are so adamant on providing blessings advantage to reinhard, but clearly want to ignore the feats tt r actually shown and try to downplay it.

And clearly, haters who conveniently ignores and tries to downplay them despite actual portrayal.

Does it nullify anything tht is used from portrayal of series ? No, it doesn't.

Now, tht brings me to hakai energy not working on reinhard
Rezero world - authorities>Divine blessings> everything else.
DB world - Zeno>Gods of destruction>kais and others. I m skipping daishikin and angels here.

So, even if u were to compare the world, gods of destruction's rank would actually be at least equal to divine blessings of rezero.
Now, the divine thing of DB world can't work on Reinhard, but divine blessings of Re zero r supposed to work on vegeta.

Sorry , but what u r doing is hypocricy here. Ok, if u want to say hakai won't work, then let me cancel out the very essence of divine protection of phoenix.
Vegeta blasts sun, and everything is destroyed and since rezero world only consists of earth, with everything gone there r no `Voices in the head` tht will need help or call out to reinhard so he is not gonna regenerate. World won't let reinhard die it says, but world itself exists no more, so resurrection is very much done for.

Ok, once again I reinstate, i have put 2 scenarios in my previous post on how vegeta can win, anything u want to say abt it ?

Because as it stands, vegeta takes this fight and yeah, reinhard can die without resurrecting too since no voices in the head.

lol you destroyed him completely

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I'll feel quite lied to if Lambu can't dispute what lakhan said regarding the revival, I don't think the battles assume other characters participating so it would make his revival effectively not work no?

Thats just a power. He asks for a new blessing and gets it. Thats why i also kinda stumbled over the fact, that someone can get stronger within the tournament by wishing what he needed, but if it his power... who am i to judge.

The phoenixblessing on the wiki i read about was stated like this also. He dies and the blessing is gone, but he can wish for another blessing that he comes back etc. Its basically a loophole, why i was insisting of hakai erasing ones pure existence.

 

[Blakestnight666]

All things are possible in bad writting but it needs to say it. Like even a line like "The star flickered out of a moment" or "The sun went dark." Anything to indicate it's influence extends beyond the borders of a world. Because if it doesn't that as far as the range can be assumed to be.

If what Lambu cited is all there is.. there is nothing like that in the text.

Exactly there are literally no statements like what you said.

 

[lakhan220]

I just ordered pizza, because this is quite a debate here and worth reading with some food at your side



Ive read the latest DB chapter and Vegeta's hakai barely destroys a small rock or a log. Its still not the perfected Beerus version, no? Or we talking about the full powered hakai?
From my understanding, even if godly authorities can bypass Rein's blessings, the biggest problem is still his damn sword, which bypasses authority powers. As long as Rein has it, god powers should not work on him. Thats how i understood Rein's character

The Great Priest iirc in tournament of power had deleted the aspect of flight - not being able to fly and yet despite tht, DBS characters were able to leviate for a while multiple times or even more in jiren vs Goku implying tht was their jump and probs using energy to keep themselves leviating.

My point being Great priest who is even above gods of destruction and yet despite him not forbidding, but deleting aspect, they can resist this stuffs.
So, quite possible for vegeta to find a way arnd it

And as it stands, Zeno>Gods of destruction>kais (Not putting angels here ofc who would be above gods of destruction) in DBS,
compare to rezero, Authorities>blessings etc......so u can equate the bypassing authotity to finding a way arnd great priest's delete.

Werent there like 16 galaxies, and then 12?
Do galaxies = universes in DB?
Im not that versed in the world building of the series.

Nope, universe has galaxies and galaxies has solar systems in DB world. There r intergalactic patrol units , like bulma's one of tht robot.

 

[Demonspeed]

Wow, 12 pages already... Should I really jump into this mess?

 

[lakhan220]

Thats just a power. He asks for a new blessing and gets it. Thats why i also kinda stumbled over the fact, that someone can get stronger within the tournament by wishing what he needed, but if it his power... who am i to judge.

The phoenixblessing on the wiki i read about was stated like this also. He dies and the blessing is gone, but he can wish for another blessing that he comes back etc. Its basically a loophole, why i was insisting of hakai erasing ones pure existence.

But author clearly states as long as someone needs help in question and answer session when asked to elaborate on divine blessing of phoenix.
And in the link he posted himself, it says world needs him is why he is brought back

Now we know world here means living things who needs his help, certainly not inanimate rocks and magma-meaning 3rd party as per the tournament rules.

Sure, he can wish for blessing, but crux of blessing of phoenix is somone needing help and as per tournament rules they r the only 2 characters and thus the loop hole is nullified very easily due to the rules which states 2 people.

Let's reenact a scenario

Reinhard while dying wishes for divine blessing of protection of Phoenix, but the crux of tht is he shld be needed, which is impossible when only 2 characters...certainly vegeta don't need his help, so he won't resurrect.

It was a loophole because rezero world portrays multiple characters and someone will always need help, but here in this tournament, it doesn't apply as it is relying on 3rd party assistance basically. Also, if reinhard destroys world, he himself is nullifying crux of his revival so ofc he won't do it. But with vegeta it is not tht case. When vegeta enters. world can be destroyed, living things can go extinct.

Even then , what i meant to point out is it has a word "need" to the core. He shld be needed for revival. And I don't think after sun is destroyed by vegeta, the radioactive waste floating arnd will need him

 

[GrySun]

Wow, 12 pages already... Should I really jump into this mess?

 

[Valhalla]

The Great Priest iirc in tournament of power had deleted the aspect of flight - not being able to fly and yet despite tht, DBS characters were able to leviate for a while multiple times or even more in jiren vs Goku implying tht was their jump and probs using energy to keep themselves leviating.

My point being Great priest who is even above gods of destruction and yet despite him not forbidding, but deleting aspect, they can resist this stuffs.
So, quite possible for vegeta to find a way arnd it

And as it stands, Zeno>Gods of destruction>kais (Not putting angels here ofc who would be above gods of destruction) in DBS,
compare to rezero, Authorities>blessings etc......so u can equate the bypassing authotity to finding a way arnd great priest's delete.

Yeah about the flying stuff. Wasnt Goku keeping himself afloat because of the Genkidama. He wasnt really flying right?
And i dont think they have flown in the manga. But you can always quote me on that because its been some time since ive read the Tournament of Power.
The most notable thing i got from the manga is that Roshi can dodge Jiren i might have stopped reading at that point, i dont remember

 

[Lambu]

1-I translated tweet literally in multiple sources and it said it what i posted above. if u really want to prove. I m lying or deliberately misleading bring me the original japanese answer from the interview with source and i will concur on him being as strong as shin godzilla part.

Also, keyword in there for a long time, means author might have stated before.
2-U still didn't nullify the source tht states tht he would take as much time as godzilla would take to destroy eurasia. And tht too is not my headcanon but literal translation of the tweet.

So, once again, i would say, if it is equivalent to godzilla destroying eurasia, even tht would take some time as in few days.

https://matomame.jp/user/FrenchToast/7213871fd493f88377ac
https://rezero.wiki.fc2.com/wiki/askまとめ　ランキング
3- Trick u ? No need for name calling and be offensive here . I took literal tweet and translated it, But good now u made me look up source.
2014 or arnd it clearly states tht author called difference between subaru and reinhard too. Basically, u ignored whole post or let's say conveniently decided to ignore as to the actual strength comparison when i asked abt it.

Author states difference between subaru and reinhard is comparable to difference between a high school girl and godzilla. And as we know subaru is one of the weakest character in the series. Petra's Pl was stated to be 1. u can based on tht decide where subaru stands and where reinhars stands.

Still does it equal vegeta who can destroy more than solar system in SSJ2 ? No, and now SSJ blue.

So, my argument still stands as it is.

Reinhard which can destroy Od Laguna is at best u can decide his durability a world destroyer where as Saiyans have been planet destroyer since ages and since they were just 8k PL.



The only thing headcanon is ur denial when it is clearly stated tht he intentionally doesn't want to use it. Is IT one time use technique tht u forget after one use ? No
There is clear difference between not wanting to use it and actually being unable to use it

Trick ? I have addressed tht above. I literally translated tweet for what it was.
And no u need to invent scenarios or factually hide infos like say for blessing of Phoenix. did u mention there is a condition for it ?

Q: Please give me more details on the protection of the phoenix!

A: As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear.

Really now ? in a battle between 2 characters, u r relying on voice of someone to resurrect and u r telling DB fans r inventing scenarios ?
So, if noone is asking for help, he won't resurrect and he will die. Correct ? Stop relying on 3rd characters and actually just hiding infos.
Now as for source
https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397

So, sorry, but this immortality via resurrection is BS and not applicable here since it relies on 3rd character.


Even Majin buu with just a scream ripped apart holes in dimensions...so nothing new here for DB chaarcters.


Once again, u r really not giving complete info . Like i said, the divine blessing of protection of phoenix only works and is reliant on 3rd party asking for help, so, here does not apply, so he is not immortal.

No, he can die. As long as noone wishes for help from him, he could be killed never to be resurrected and then od laguna can be destroyed pre, post or during battle too.

Tht is the play here...he deliberately hides info. Divine protection of Phoenix relies on the people actually seeking for help...it clearly states tht as long as someone needs help, meaning 3rd party and is not applicable here in battle of 2 characters. Vegeta kills him, blasting the sun and there is no voice tht needs his help, he is not gonna resurrect.

And let's be clear rezero world has only earth and moon, so now expanding it to universe tier is just him trying to play with words here/

Let's not put words in other people's mouths , which shows u r insecure.
A character's light speed was stated by the author. A character moving more than the speed of light was portrayed by the author
A character actually being able to destroy solar system - author made the character say it
And magnitude of those attacks once again had numerical value until frieza's 2nd pre final transformation. After which, time and time again, it was protrayed tht their clashes had tht magnitude

So, yes, DB fans will say they will overpower in physicality. Has Reinhard shown a single physical attack tht is felt in completely different planetary systems ?
U are so adamant on providing blessings advantage to reinhard, but clearly want to ignore the feats tt r actually shown and try to downplay it.

And clearly, haters who conveniently ignores and tries to downplay them despite actual portrayal.

Does it nullify anything tht is used from portrayal of series ? No, it doesn't.

Now, tht brings me to hakai energy not working on reinhard
Rezero world - authorities>Divine blessings> everything else.
DB world - Zeno>Gods of destruction>kais and others. I m skipping daishikin and angels here.

So, even if u were to compare the world, gods of destruction's rank would actually be at least equal to divine blessings of rezero.
Now, the divine thing of DB world can't work on Reinhard, but divine blessings of Re zero r supposed to work on vegeta.

Sorry , but what u r doing is hypocricy here. Ok, if u want to say hakai won't work, then let me cancel out the very essence of divine protection of phoenix.
Vegeta blasts sun, and everything is destroyed and since rezero world only consists of earth, with everything gone there r no `Voices in the head` tht will need help or call out to reinhard so he is not gonna regenerate. World won't let reinhard die it says, but world itself exists no more, so resurrection is very much done for.

Ok, once again I reinstate, i have put 2 scenarios in my previous post on how vegeta can win, anything u want to say abt it ?

Because as it stands, vegeta takes this fight and yeah, reinhard can die without resurrecting too since no voices in the head.

So you... undeliberately... lied? Well thats new.

How do you even translate this

As Reinhard having the powerlevel of Godzilla?

Its so ridiculous that I cannot even get serious about it. Did you really type that megapost on that assumption over two clear troll answers from the author?

Man...

As for the Blessing of Phoenix it literally allows him to revive everytime he dies, its in the ability's description.
Did you really need to go to another tweet that said "He will always come back as long as theres someone asking for help"
and then understand it as "He will come back only if someone asks for help"


You are trying too hard Lak...

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@lakhan220 Man i would like to buy you a beer for your posts. Finally that character makes some sense.

 

[Blakestnight666]

@lakhan220 Man i would like to buy you a beer for your posts. Finally that character makes some sense.

lol true lakhan dismantled him

 

[lakhan220]

So you... undeliberately... lied? Well thats new.

How do you even translate this

As Reinhard having the powerlevel of Godzilla?

Its so ridiculous that I cannot even get serious about it. Did you really type that megapost on that assumption over two clear troll answers from the author?

Man...

As for the Blessing of Phoenix it literally allows him to revive everytime he dies, its in the ability's description.
Did you really need to go to another tweet that said "He will always come back as long as theres someone asking for help"
and then understand it as "He will come back only if someone asks for help"


You are trying too hard Lak...

Let's not try hard here......I have posted the source links above...The author says NEED as aspect. The link u posted has last question which states NEED as aspect.

And why r u so sure he is trolling there.....normally translations mention LOL, and he was clearly asked to elaborate on how divine blessing of protection of Phoenix works.

So, no u r relying on 3rd party for ur resurrection.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Yeah about the flying stuff. Wasnt Goku keeping himself afloat because of the Genkidama. He wasnt really flying right?
And i dont think they have flown in the manga. But you can always quote me on that because its been some time since ive read the Tournament of Power.
The most notable thing i got from the manga is that Roshi can dodge Jiren i might have stopped reading at that point, i dont remember

My point was Val despite delete, they were able to leviate in form of jump . And u can ask manga readers for tht, i only have seen vids of DBS , have yet to watch series .

 

[Nie Li]

As far as I remember in the DBS only winged fighters could fly during the tournament. The rest could do things like propelling themselves with energy beams over the air but not flying. What the Gran Padre negated was just the ability to fly with ki like Goku and pals usually do.

 

[Lambu]

Let's not try hard here......I have posted the source links above...The author says NEED as aspect. The link u posted has last question which states NEED as aspect.

And why r u so sure he is trolling there.....normally translations mention LOL, and he was clearly asked to elaborate on how divine blessing of protection of Phoenix works.

So, no u r relying on 3rd party for ur resurrection.

He needs the protection in order to obtain, it applies to all his blessings.
If he doesn't want to revive he doesn't revive, simple as that. If he wants to keep fighting he will always come back. Thats what the author means.

The argument is cute tho, it actually made me drop some laughs.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

I wonder if Blackest even realizes you are also laughing your ass off Lak lol

 

[Valhalla]

My point was Val despite delete, they were able to leviate in form of jump . And u can ask manga readers for tht, i only have seen vids of DBS , have yet to watch series .

Yeah i know what the point was, i was asking if they have really flown or floated, despite Daishinkan negating their ability to do so.
Im still not sure about it. In og DB anime you have characters that didnt know how to fly and yet stayed in the air for like half the episode.

 

[Demonspeed]

Need to go somewhere and I haven't read everything but I will say this:

• Hakai is definitely overrated. It lost its hype once Beerus said it couldn't kill immortals. From what I see I don't understand how it could work here.
• There are some LNs with really fancy writing. I don't read Re:Zero so I can't know how it is but even with fancy writing, it's easy to guess when it is. In Mondaijitachi for example, it is known early that Izayoi can reach third cosmic velocity speed and it is a fact. In some battles, some descriptions are too outlandish but you can easily distinguish what is outlandish and not. But the PLs in Mondaijitachi are no joke especially later in the series.
• A character, especially if he is stated to be the strongest, doesn't need to have peers for his feats to be valid. Even in DB, Zeno is peerless.

 

[Blakestnight666]

lol lambu still in denial lololol

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Need to go somewhere and I haven't read everything but I will say this:

• Hakai is definitely overrated. It lost its hype once Beerus said it couldn't kill immortals. From what I see I don't understand how it could work here.
• There are some LNs with really fancy writing. I don't read Re:Zero so I can't know how it is but even with fancy writing, it's easy to guess when it is. In Mondaijitachi for example, it is known early that Izayoi can reach third cosmic velocity and it is a fact. In some battles, some descriptions are too outlandish but you can easily distinguish what is outlandish and not. But the PLs in Mondaijitachi are no joke especially later in the series.
• A character, especially if he is stated to be the strongest, doesn't need to have peers for his feats to be valid. Even in DB, Zeno is peerless.

mondaiji has clear cut statements and description of their cosmology and thus we can know the effects of the power unlike rezero where people wank something up-to hundred.

 

[lakhan220]

Seriously Lak? Your source doesnt even work.

Translation of what he said:

Q: In order to reliably defeat Reinhard, what should one do?
A: Please watch Shin Godzilla. There's no such thing as a reliable winning strategy.


Its a joke answer, similar to this one


Q: In last year's questions, it was said that Reinhard could wipe out the world fairly easily, but in concrete terms, how would he do it? If that's a secret, please tell me the sort of pro-wrestling move that Reinhard would probably like.
A: The Brain Buster looks cool, so I think he'd like it.


Also Reinhard can destroy the entire world in an instant with Reid and then reshape it to a previous form as stated in the novel. Destroying Od Laguna is also the same as destroying all existence. He's not going to do it tho, he's a hero not a cosmic bulldozer lol.

This question and answer summarized it pretty well (spoilers!)

Q: If Subaru wasn't there, it was said the Regulus fight would have stalemated without a conclusion, but isn't there a chance that the situation would have gradually worsened and he'd have lost? Is Reinhard still the stronger one, despite that? Also, could he have discovered some kind of method to put an end to the fight?

A: If Reinhard had been serious, he could have blown everything away and wiped out Regulus' brides, but he doesn't do that sort of thing so it was said it would be a stalemate. If he'll use any means available to win, there's no one he can't beat, but it's not that kind of story, right?


Reinhard is constantly restraining himself to not kill the people around him. If he went bonkers all would end. The reason Satella vs Reinhard is a stalemate is not because he can't destroy her. Its that if destroying her takes the entire world and the people he loves with it that is not a win for Rein.

If you start your argument with fake information the entire thing falls apart man.

@Lambu , u used this as ur source, right

Ok, let's see the second last question

Q: I think I remember reading about the Blessing of the Phoenix - Next in some what-if story, but does Reinhard really have that sort of blessing?

A: He does have it, and if the Next goes away, he'll be given the Next Next. The world won't let him die.

Now, why would world not let him die ? Tht is explained in the Q and A when he is asked to elaborate on tht blessing which i linked u above, but let me do it again.

Q: Please give me more details on the protection of the phoenix!

A: As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear.
https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397

What can u infer from tht ?

World doesn't let him die because someone's voice is asking him for help. And i m sure 'voices in the head` is relying on 3rd party for ressurection.

And between a battle of 2 characters here, u r heavily basing on ur immortality, which is actually conditional. (Reliance on 3rd party)

And please tell me what is so lol tht author has to troll there...was question being asked lol ?
Can I not say same to all questions u posted abt reinhard because he actually LOLs when he is giving reinhard answers tht he can't be defeated etc and actually trolls in some......now, if the elaboration of immortality is a troll, so is all the claims basically then.

 

[Copy Panda]

lol lambu still in denial lololol

When you spot the guy who's been hogging all the popcorn

 

[Valhalla]

Goddam, 12 pages of entertainment.
Is this the biggest fight pagewise ?