Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[Sachsenhesse]

"WHAT STOPS VEGETA FROM KILLING HIMSELF!???"

With Godki he can survive in space also knows instaneous transportation.

 

[lakhan220]

He would die too with no Sun? Sounds like a big reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

"WHAT STOPS VEGETA FROM KILLING HIMSELF!???"

he still has IT. Never actually said it was lost.
Just he didn't wanna use it stealing goku's move and likely he thinks he wouldn't be able to. Means in dire situation if he has not lost it, he can try tht.

Much like he never wanted goku's help or take it, but he took it. Never rely on others, but is relying on beerus. Similarly, if situation demands, he would not hesitate to use it.

Moreover, this time he doesn't have to pinpoint stuff, just look for any life energy nearby outside the solar system and he could go there making it relatively easy imo.

EDIT - Anyways, i will kinda be excusing myself from this thread. Kinda now bored a bit.

@Sachsenhesse and @Lambu , gl and duke it out among yourselves.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@lakhan220 Thanks for your contribution. Most is alread said, so i kinda expect that the thread is going quite anyway.

 

[Asako]

I'm wondering why the heck you guys here are underwelming the blessing, yes authority are stronger but boy are blessing still op especially with how many reinhard have
Btw the way the blessing won't work is if the attack components already 100 granted to hit or if you isolate the area reinhard in form Od Laguna
And it's not like vegeta have anything like that to do so


Also I don't think i seen lambu lie at all, honestly i was waiting for him to use some panels form the web novel to debunk these bullshit
These Q&A talk honestly I don't get where lak got them form, i mean is that even the author Twitter
Wow didn't know he can talk English perfectly honestly

The Q&A of the blessing never came form Twitter but form these

Not like i understand anything form it but fans did translate what it says and that's what lambu been pulling out

I never heard of that Twitter account but then again I'm not into Twitter


Reinhard is a stupid meme in the fandom for a reason, guy is stupidly overpowered.... He just don't move unless ordered to
He always the running joke that if he there he can fix most of subaru problems


Here the useful blessing in a battle

Blessing of bleeding: the more he bleeds the more powerful he is

Blessing of phoenix: can revive once after he dies

Blessing of the sword master: is able to use the dragon sword レイド and is granted with superior sword fighting skills

Blessing of dodging: long range attacks can not hit him(like the dagger elsa threw at him in episode 3)

Blessing of accuracy: his long range attacks with definitely hit

Blessing of anti magic: all curses, debuffs and buffs do not work on him

Blessing of fire resistance: ignore 80% fire damage

Blessing of wind resistance: ignores 80% wind resistance

泥抜けの加護(not too sure how to translate this): ignores 80% blunt damage(basically he has 80% all damage reduction so i'm gonna skip the rest of this kind of blessings)

再臨の加護: if he can see the attack, then his enemy's ALL attacks after the second attack can not hit him

伝心の加護： has an brief idea of what his enemy is thinking

仕様の加護：can use all items skillfully that's in his hands

Blessing of handless: He's strong even when bare handed

Blessing of the fight god: can use all kinds of weapons skillfully

A blessing that gives him new blessings when he needs it

Q: Who is the strongest character (including those deceased) in the story?

A: Reinhard Van Astrea
Q: Is the red haired ikemen (pretty boy) Reinhard-kun the strongest?

A: He’s the strongest

Q: In a fight between Satella and Reinhard, of course Reinhard would win right? Also, what’s the difference in strength between the two?

A: Due to a matter of affinity it would be an endless battle. The difference is between Disgaea and Final Fantasy. (<---- I don't really get that, if someone could explain that'd be great)

Q: Even though Reinhard cannot use magic by himself, since mana and the minute spirits are his ally, can he become able to employ pseudo magic by using the spirits?

A: First of, since the ability from Reinhard to mobilize the minute spirits is dead, they wouldn’t be able to mutual understand one another. The minute spirits will try to cooperate by Reinhard’s gestures and minute spirits of all attributes will simultaneously become like “The one to give thanks to that person is me!” they will counterbalance each other and end up killing each other. Also, they will be absorbed when weakened. The minute spirits are like a moth to Reinhard who is like a flame, that’s their relationship.

Q: How powerful is Reinhard among the previous Sword Saints?

A: He’s the strongest successor and the world strongest
Q: Approximately how strong is the first generation Sword Saint Reid? (Based mainly on Reinhard)

A: Yesterday, I gave the power rankings of the (top) five people among the current characters, however with the exception of Reinhard he can behead all of them.

The Q&A section is taken from the Q&A from the Japanese WN readers towards Nagatsuki Tappei, the author.




PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER LAMBU, YOU REALLY LET VAL GIVE AWAY WIN BE IN VAIN????

 

[Valhalla]

And the very said gods in the DB universe can be defeated and when u translate tht to rezero world, like i provided the comparison, what is stopping them ?

The way I see it,
Rezero world Authority>Blessings>everything else
DB world Zeno>angels>gods of destruction>supreme kais>Grand kai>Normal kais

Now, if we were to straight up compare there, u know where the blessings and authority would end. It is very simple tht while all the advantages of rezero world r being given to reinhard, but at same time, DB characters are being denied everything. They can fight gods & angels themselves, but here they can't fight the blessing or authority, the contemporary in re zero world.
Then there is sheer magnitude which even jammin indicated tht Lambu claims rezero world = Universe and he rewrote world = universe ? Really now ?
Where r the lines the sun flickered, it turned black, the universe and other planets started rumbling themselves etc etc etc. DB world portrays it. They have to at least say a line abt it.

I can agree with most of what you said.

While i support equalizing. Gods from DB and gods from other series are different.
How can someone even equalize omnipotent beings or concepts that hold the verse together with brawler gods that destroy you with their ability?
There is a reason certain characters should be have been banned from this tournaments. And Rein was one of them imo. Along with Ruphas, Homura and Daishinkan.

The closest to a god ability i can find in DB is Zeno's erasure of concept or Daishinkan's ability to erase a status or negate an ability. I dont remember seeing a character resist it. This is something you mentioned earlier, about the flying stuff. They themselves didnt resist Daishinkan's law, but they managed to stay afloat via outside energy. Sadly, Vegeta and Goku cant fight the angels or Zeno, they never fought them, nor they will till manga reaches that point. Gods of Destruction on the other hand are far from omnipotent, they are just straight up brawlers with universal firepower.

Of course there are gonna be advantages to Rein, because he operates with haxes where he should have been banned, but he was not, so you have do deal with that. Someone might say DB is being denied everything here. Im certainly not denying anything. Im saying Vegeta and Goku can only go so far with raw universal strength alone.

Even in Naruto, it was said juubi can destroy world...did it mean whole universe ? No
So, when u bring 2 verses, all efforts r done on alleviating reinhard to universal level which he is not , while DB characters are there.

My question was simple. What stops vegeta from blasting sun itself and destroy od laguna itself and stop the resurrection cycle itself?

Not sure about this universe stuff that Lambu is saying. Im iffy about that too. The thing i understood from the forums is that Reid will erase the world and rebirth it anew.
Reid sword is apparently a power that goes beyond a conceptual god that holds the universe together and dictates its laws.

What stops Vegeta from killing himself if he blows up the universe? How do you know destroying the universe will kill Od Laguna? Can Vegeta erase even concepts now like Zeno?

Tht brings me to blessing of phoenix - clearly states 'As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear." `, meaning post death, he is still needed by the world for sake of someone else.
And 2- World keeps on bringing him back because it needs him.

Where did you find this if i knew that, i might have brought that up in my Aladdin fight lol
The most i found out was from the wiki and from authors interviews and it says just "continue after death" or something lol WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE ALADDIN FIGHT LAK



Im trying to equalize this but its pretty hard, when you got characters like Rein in the mix. Im not denying DB anything, nor am i trying to. I work with what i got and what i gathered.

 

[Asako]

For the longest time i been in the re zero community val i never ever heard of this

As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world

I'm wondering if lak isn't mixing up reinhard personality vs his powers considering that's definitely in his character but i never heard it as a requirements for his powers
Never
Sure reinhard is a hero, he acts like that but it isn't a requirement to his powers

 

[lakhan220]

I'm wondering why the heck you guys here are underwelming the blessing, yes authority are stronger but boy are blessing still op especially with how many reinhard have
Btw the way the blessing won't work is if the attack components already 100 granted to hit or if you isolate the area reinhard in form Od Laguna
And it's not like vegeta have anything like that to do so


Also I don't think i seen lambu lie at all, honestly i was waiting for him to use some panels form the web novel to debunk these bullshit
These Q&A talk honestly I don't get where lak got them form, i mean is that even the author Twitter
Wow didn't know he can talk English perfectly honestly

The Q&A of the blessing never came form Twitter but form these

Not like i understand anything form it but fans did translate what it says and that's what lambu been pulling out

I never heard of that Twitter account but then again I'm not into Twitter


Reinhard is a stupid meme in the fandom for a reason, guy is stupidly overpowered.... He just don't move unless ordered to
He always the running joke that if he there he can fix most of subaru problems


Here the useful blessing in a battle

Blessing of bleeding: the more he bleeds the more powerful he is

Blessing of phoenix: can revive once after he dies

Blessing of the sword master: is able to use the dragon sword レイド and is granted with superior sword fighting skills

Blessing of dodging: long range attacks can not hit him(like the dagger elsa threw at him in episode 3)

Blessing of accuracy: his long range attacks with definitely hit

Blessing of anti magic: all curses, debuffs and buffs do not work on him

Blessing of fire resistance: ignore 80% fire damage

Blessing of wind resistance: ignores 80% wind resistance

泥抜けの加護(not too sure how to translate this): ignores 80% blunt damage(basically he has 80% all damage reduction so i'm gonna skip the rest of this kind of blessings)

再臨の加護: if he can see the attack, then his enemy's ALL attacks after the second attack can not hit him

伝心の加護： has an brief idea of what his enemy is thinking

仕様の加護：can use all items skillfully that's in his hands

Blessing of handless: He's strong even when bare handed

Blessing of the fight god: can use all kinds of weapons skillfully

A blessing that gives him new blessings when he needs it



The Q&A section is taken from the Q&A from the Japanese WN readers towards Nagatsuki Tappei, the author.




PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER LAMBU, YOU REALLY LET VAL GIVE AWAY WIN BE IN VAIN????

Koko, the very question and answer sessions he posted, the provider was the same source i got it from.


See source provider

https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397\
The site I used

https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397

The question source from tht site

And the very image it leads u too when u click source there as even in there they have provided source.

source is nezumiironyanko twitter who is provider of most sources of re zero.

Where did you find this if i knew that, i might have brought that up in my Aladdin fight lol
The most i found out was from the wiki and from authors interviews and it says just "continue after death" or something lol WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE ALADDIN FIGHT LAK

I reverse searched from twitter source, but reverse searched in japanese language tht took me to 2 sites i mentioned in source before.

And as for od laguna and sun destruction - author states reinhard can destroy it. Reinhard's best feat is rewriting the world as in a single planet , so u can understand the rest.

And as for the conceptual power, the magnitude too matters val. Juubi was said to be god who held world together or so was kaguya but was sealed because they had their clear limits, which extended to a single planet.

Reid sword as u mention dictates universal laws or so, but like i was saying when world was rewritten, why it had absolute 0 effects on other things and why was it not even stated sun flickered and such. Is this not the indication tht the very world tht they speak of is limited to a planet here ?

Exactly, if they can find a way arnd daishikin's delete, shld they not be given same here ?
Anyways, as it is, i would like to let the 2 nominators fight it now.

For the longest time i been in the re zero community val i never ever heard of this



I'm wondering if lak isn't mixing up reinhard personality vs his powers considering that's definitely in his character but i never heard it as a requirements for his powers
Never
Sure reinhard is a hero, he acts like that but it isn't a requirement to his powers

No, I am not. It is clearly stated....tht statement when asked to elaborate on divine phoenix blessing.
Sorry koko, for longest time, probs u didn't come across tht then.

And i have given inferences above and even taken inferences of lambu and u have to decide from there.
Sorry koko, but u need to read all the posts from where it began. Can't type everything again, the arguments and such to make my point across.

 

[Blakestnight666]

I can agree with most of what you said.

While i support equalizing. Gods from DB and gods from other series are different.
How can someone even equalize omnipotent beings or concepts that hold the verse together with brawler gods that destroy you with their ability?
There is a reason certain characters should be have been banned from this tournaments. And Rein was one of them imo. Along with Ruphas, Homura and Daishinkan.

The closest to a god ability i can find in DB is Zeno's erasure of concept or Daishinkan's ability to erase a status or negate an ability. I dont remember seeing a character resist it. This is something you mentioned earlier, about the flying stuff. They themselves didnt resist Daishinkan's law, but they managed to stay afloat via outside energy. Sadly, Vegeta and Goku cant fight the angels or Zeno, they never fought them, nor they will till manga reaches that point. Gods of Destruction on the other hand are far from omnipotent, they are just straight up brawlers with universal firepower.

Of course there are gonna be advantages to Rein, because he operates with haxes where he should have been banned, but he was not, so you have do deal with that. Someone might say DB is being denied everything here. Im certainly not denying anything. Im saying Vegeta and Goku can only go so far with raw universal strength alone.


Not sure about this universe stuff that Lambu is saying. Im iffy about that too. The thing i understood from the forums is that Reid will erase the world and rebirth it anew.
Reid sword is apparently a power that goes beyond a conceptual god that holds the universe together and dictates its laws.

What stops Vegeta from killing himself if he blows up the universe? How do you know destroying the universe will kill Od Laguna? Can Vegeta erase even concepts now like Zeno?



Where did you find this if i knew that, i might have brought that up in my Aladdin fight lol
The most i found out was from the wiki and from authors interviews and it says just "continue after death" or something lol WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE ALADDIN FIGHT LAK



Im trying to equalize this but its pretty hard, when you got characters like Rein in the mix. Im not denying DB anything, nor am i trying to. I work with what i got and what i gathered.

Thing is no one in re zero is universe level. They cap at planet level. What you have been seeing is pure unadulated wank.

 

[Asako]

Sorry koko, but u need to read all the posts from where it began. Can't type everything again, the arguments and such to make my point across.

Noo not the 16 pages reread, obviously I'm kinda miss stuff when it's this long
Bro this thread becoming mafia lvl need in attention

And yea I'm fixing what i said, i found author Twitter tho only about the godzilla part but not the he need someone for blessing of the phoenix
Will look more and confirm myself then =3=


My life could be a lie if that's true

 

[Jammin]

Ok, @Lambu. I did not do a good job explaining your side of that argument. I admit that. Clearly I didn't understand it as well as I thought I did. In my defense this is a long thread and I'm certainly not infallible. And I've been trying very hard not to point out directly where you lied because you seem rather defensive about it. And you seem like this game is causing you enough stress as it is.

If you want me to point out some times when you lied or misrepresented what facts support. Have it your way..

#1) It was a fact that Reinhard can't fall for seduction. False. It is your opinion that he wouldn't fall for seduction. A very plausible opinion, in my view, but still quite false. Because you cannot prove it. Therefor it is not a fact.

#2) Reinhard is not immortal. As I demonstrated with the literal definition of immortality. That statement was false.

#3) You claimed the dragon sword destroys the universe. There seem to be no facts supporting this at all. There doesn't seem to be any evidence at all of it reaching beyond the scale of the world, aside from your fervent belief that it does.

I believe that you believe what your saying. So I don't think your intentionally lying or anything like that. I think you just really love this character and his story and have gotten a bit carried away. Much the way Naruto fans used to with Sasuke and Itachi all the time. And I also think you've argued for him so long you seem to feel like your pride is on the line. It happens. I get it. But I also think the bias is pretty thick with you and ReZero.

You'd save yourself so much grief if you'd write clean assessments of what Reinhard can do. Actual facts. With cited sources to prove them. That's why Lakhan is so convincing, clearly citing sources. I tried telling you this in the hangout already. Just separate what you can prove is true and what you can't. Then prove it. It's no accident these conversations always go where you don't seem to want them to. Only you have the power to prevent that.

If Reinhard can clearly do all the things you say he can. This should not be difficult for you right? Just stick to doing that. I assure you it's completely stress free.

 

[lakhan220]

And yea I'm fixing what i said, i found author Twitter tho only about the godzilla part but not the he need someone for blessing of the phoenix
Will look more and confirm myself then =3=

U can post a question to him on twitter if u like and they will link ya to place where they have it all saved.
And i just saw, i posted same link twice

https://matomame.jp/user/FrenchToast/7213871fd493f88377ac

Tons of other questions too . U can see from there. it is on page 1, the question abt phoenix protection.
And there they have provided the source, which takes u to link i posted and in there again there is a link which will take u to image I posted.

Here, the twitter link as well

 

[Hardy]

With Godki he can survive in space also knows instaneous transportation.

No? Super Manga states Saiyans die in space. If you are talking about Beerus vs Goku, they were probably still inside the atmosphere.

I wonder if he would freeze to death or die of asphyxia first.

Vegeta won't ever use IT again, and it only worked ONCE because of Goku's big dick ki, I don't know why you guys keep bringing it up.

 

[Valhalla]

I reverse searched from twitter source, but reverse searched in japanese language tht took me to 2 sites i mentioned in source before.

And as for od laguna and sun destruction - author states reinhard can destroy it. Reinhard's best feat is rewriting the world as in a single planet , so u can understand the rest.

And as for the conceptual power, the magnitude too matters val. Juubi was said to be god who held world together or so was kaguya but was sealed because they had their clear limits, which extended to a single planet.

Reid sword as u mention dictates universal laws or so, but like i was saying when world was rewritten, why it had absolute 0 effects on other things and why was it not even stated sun flickered and such. Is this not the indication tht the very world tht they speak of is limited to a planet here ?

Exactly, if they can find a way arnd daishikin's delete, shld they not be given same here ?
Anyways, as it is, i would like to let the 2 nominators fight it now.

Sorry for the late reply, i was driving home. Had an hour long drive from a friends. I cant believe i was actually debating from a friends computer. He said i was nuts


First of, Fuck you Lak where were you during my fights. I could have used you. I thought we were eternal Naruto/"Boruto" comrades and yet this betrayal oh, my head ....

Magnitude matters but, you also have to look at it this way; Is the magnitude of power from a transcending conceptual being that dictates the laws of its verse weaker or stronger than the magnitude of power from a being that is mortal.

Jubi and Kaguya are nothing special to the "magnitude of power" we are talking about here, no. Yes they are considered gods in the Naruto verse, but they are still "mortal" beings, same as the gods of the destruction in DB, or the lower gods, or the Kaio, or Kami.
Yeah about the world thing with the Jubi, in the end it didnt mean a thing since Jubi was no god, nor did it held the world in its palms, in the end it was a flower with chackra. And Kaguya, while immortal, she is far from being considered a goddess on par with some other verses.

About the Reid sword and its erase and rebirth stuff, i just took it at face value. I havent read the novels, i just saw some pics Lambu posted and read the stuff he said, and ive read some forum discussions but not in detail. Flickering Sun, all new to me lol




Oh yeah, that reddit post about the blessings, thats what ive found as well, but there is no info about outside voices calling for Rein or similar. Who said that? About the third party needing him to ressurect? Now im extra curious

(someone already posted this, but i had to do it as well)

 

[Lambu]

@lakhan220 Instead of making those huge posts linking stuff that you cannot even understand properly. Why not lay the bare fact supporting your "theory"?

Author says: If Reinhard dies, he will revive as many times as it takes so long as he has the will to keep fighting.
Author also says: As long as someone is out there asking for help, he will keep coming back.


Now Lakhan's interpretation: "Only if someone is asking for help Reinhard will return"


This is your point, no sugarcoating with half-assed "investigation" and wordplay.

If someone follows his assumption I can't help it, its just not how Rein's revival works and it takes a 8 year old to understand it.
Reinhard decides whether to return or not, he will always return if someone is in need of assistance because he's a hero, he's not bound by those people's needs to be able to return.

The similar case with another situation.
Reinhard is stated to be capable of defeating all the people of the World if they all turned against him but he would lay down his arms in that situation, for his reason to fight would be no more. Its not that he can't do it, he doesn't want to, which are different things.

@Valhalla777 in the previous round I explained to you how Aladdin would be able to win if he was a villain and decided to destroy all that Reinhard swore to protect. That would break Reinhard's will to fight so why return if he's killed? He would have nothing else to protect. Its exactly the same thing.

I can't explain it more clearly than this.

#1) It was a fact that Reinhard can't fall for seduction. False. It is your opinion that he wouldn't fall for seduction. A very plausible opinion, in my view, but still quite false. Because you cannot prove it. Therefor it is not a fact.

Here I'll force you to read.

The same for the "Reinhard is unaffected by seduction" claim of mine, which is a fact and not an opinion as you in your constant disbelief defend as your truth.
Do I need to mention that Reinhard completely ignores personal feelings of any kind once in battle to the point he killed his own grandmother in cold blood without batting an eye in Arc 5?
Did you need to know that? Of course not, its your set scepticism what makes you need it.

I told you that in the hangout thread directly to you, Did you read it now?
Probably not, but it was worth a try.

#2) Reinhard is not immortal. As I demonstrated with the literal definition of immortality. That statement was false.

- A guy with an immortal soul that cannot be erased or rewritten and will come back as long as he has the will to fight.
- His body is capable of dying but his spirit isn't. His body will keep respawning after being defeated unlimited times.

Idk dude, that to me is a clear form of immortality, you are playing semantics as an argument.

- Is his body immortal? NO
- Is the character immortal? OF COURSE HE IS


I can't handle more of this...

#3) You claimed the dragon sword destroys the universe. There seem to be no facts supporting this at all. There doesn't seem to be any evidence at all of it reaching beyond the scale of the world, aside from your fervent belief that it does.

It is a fact he can destroy the entire Re:Zero Universe if he truly wills it.
Od Laguna sustains all existence. Its what allows things to exist, a Creator God whose only will is to keep all that is in the universe to keep being.
To be powerful enough to destroy such entity is being capable of ending all existence. These are pure facts you purposely ignore. Its not something I can screenshot, its basically the definition of Od Laguna in the story and connecting the dots. Reinhard being able to destroy it means he can destroy the entire Re:Zero Universe. Its very simple logic.

The argument of the DB fans revolves around DB universe being "bigger" than Re:Zero Universe, so Reinhard is unable to rip the existence of DB universe, it has nothing to do with one being "stronger" than the other.

When was a character of DB capable of resisting an attack that can erase you on a conceptual level? (Hakai is not one of them and it was proved).
When was a character of DB capable of manipulating universal laws to become untouchable?
When was a character of DB capable of ignoring the laws of his own biology or have infinite stamina?


Oh, those were too many paragraphs, now you wont read it either.


Also, do you think I like Reinhard as a character? Give me a break, he doesnt even make it to my Top 20 of the series.
He's a character designed with the intention of handling Witches with Author powers, something way above DragonBall and I've read DragonBall several times, I think I have just a tiny bit of property when making this statement.

But thats the thing, you dont care about what I have to say, ergo this discussion is pointless.
I have no intention of convincing you of anything, for you dont have the intention of getting convinced either. The only thing I can do is correct the statements you do and explain why they are wrong, thats all there is to it.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Lambu still wanking universal Reinhard when most notable debating sites put him at planet level

 

[Hardy]

"Notable debating sites"

Yesterday I was reading how they calculated how strong a Madoka character was. They used an animation in a videogame where her attack clears the sky from clouds, so with this they did some math as to how strong an attack has to be to clear the sky (????) and then multiplied this several times because character progression... And then used this to scale another character in this tournament. Just bullshit after bullshit relying on bullshit. Very notable.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

And honestly this is coming from a guy that overall thinks Vegeta is stronger, but you guys are epically failing trying to show any scenario where he beats Reinhard.

 

[Valhalla]

I mean Death Battle put Zoro at faster than the speed of sound or something at Whisky Peak (if im remembering it correctly) ... so yeah, lots of bs from all media around. In the end you can only trust your own kokoro. In Vs Battles they said Aladdin from Magi is FTL in speed, yet he never once moved FTL, only tagged a character that reacted to light. Source material is the most important i guess.

Yeah you can play semantics all day long like this (which is very enjoyable, today i literally made popcorn only to see that it wasnt as active as yesterday), but i also still cant see how Vegeta beats Rein.

 

[Lambu]

Hate to break it to you, but "universal laws" don't mean anything, their strength always vary from series to series. What I want to know is, how big was the attack he nullified? Mountain sized? Planet sized? Universe sized? Something tangible.

You did answer the speed one, true. Raindrops, right.... Reinhard can't touch Vegeta if that's all he's got under his belt.

Slashing through reality also means nothing, Buu can scream through reality, no one cares about that, nor should they. What has Reinhard slashed? Who is the most durable character he's cut? What's the largest structure he's cut? As I recall Elsa's blades didn't snap in one hit. I know Reinhard wasn't using his sword, but as I understand it, his blessings are separate from his sword. And yet these "always active blessings" Didn't cut through her daggers. I'm not seeing anything from Reinhard that suggests he's cutting Vegeta.

Haha, let's not pretend you actually answered the points, you ignore them because you know they fuck your arguement. Saying nonsense like "it's well beyond saiyans or ki blasts" or "it's above universe laws" is not answering a point, it's just a fancy way for you to say you think Reinhard is better.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

Actually, now that I think about it, Reinhard wasn't even fast enough to save Subaru from Elsa. Really he should've defeated her in 2 seconds flat, with none of his friends injured and the enemy not escaping to kill again. It'd take Vegeta much less than two seconds to take care of her, and he wouldn't need a spirit art or a technique either, Elsa also would not have escaped.

Just remembered you are the "Gae Bolg guy", oh god...

That saves me a lot of time tho.

- Cut through concepts = Cut through anything, tangible or intangible, he can even cut abilities. Basically he can just cut through Vegeta's final flash and slash him at the same time.
- He can be as fast as he wants to but he's technically bound by the laws of his universe. His best feat is easily handling a guy moving close to light speed once he drew the Dragon Sword.
- You ignore the idea of holding back in Re:Zero, but not in DragonBall because its a "natural" thing. You are such a king.
- Of course you will say slashing through reality means nothing, its just how you play the game.


I can't believe Im the one being called subjective here.

 

[Jammin]

- A guy with an immortal soul that cannot be erased or rewritten and will come back as long as he has the will to fight.
- His body is capable of dying but his spirit isn't. His body will keep respawning after being defeated unlimited times.

Idk dude, that to me is a clear form of immortality, you are playing semantics as an argument.

- Is his body immortal? NO
- Is the character immortal? OF COURSE HE IS


I can't handle more of this...

It's really not semantics. One guy has an ability that can't effect immortal people.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
/ˌi(m)ˌmôrˈtalədē/

noun
noun: immortality

1. the ability to live forever; eternal life.
   "eating the fruit gave the gods immortality"

Is this an ability Reihard has? No, no it is not. Your argument isn't even with me on this one. It's with the dictionary.

Now I'm happy acknowledge that he may have another form of protection from it in whatever that supposedly made, Reid if I'm remembering correctly, have an existence that is non-erasable. You didn't cite anything backing up that assertion and I have yet to be able to find any mention of Reinhard having it. But I could totally believe he has that.

It's still not immortality though. Every time you say that you are trying to make a word mean something that it just plain doesn't because Reinhard will one day die. He ages. He is not immortal. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept honestly.

It is a fact he can destroy the entire Re:Zero Universe if he truly wills it.
Od Laguna sustains all existence. Its what allows things to exist, a Creator God whose only will is to keep all that is in the universe to keep being.
To be powerful enough to destroy such entity is being capable of ending all existence. These are pure facts you purposely ignore. Its not something I can screenshot, its basically the definition of Od Laguna in the story and connecting the dots. Reinhard being able to destroy it means he can destroy the entire Re:Zero Universe. Its very simple logic.

The argument of the DB fans revolves around DB universe being "bigger" than Re:Zero Universe, so Reinhard is unable to rip the existence of DB universe, it has nothing to do with one being "stronger" than the other.

When was a character of DB capable of resisting an attack that can erase you on a conceptual level? (Hakai is not one of them and it was proved).
When was a character of DB capable of manipulating universal laws to become untouchable?
When was a character of DB capable of ignoring the laws of his own biology or have infinite stamina?


Oh, those were too many paragraphs, now you wont read it either.


Also, do you think I like Reinhard as a character? Give me a break, he doesnt even make it to my Top 20 of the series.
He's a character designed with the intention of handling Witches with Author powers, something way above DragonBall and I've read DragonBall several times, I think I have just a tiny bit of property when making this statement.

But thats the thing, you dont care about what I have to say, ergo this discussion is pointless.
I have no intention of convincing you of anything, for you dont have the intention of getting convinced either. The only thing I can do is correct the statements you do and explain why they are wrong, thats all there is to it.

Again why can't you cite a source for this or anything? You don't need a screenshot. You just need to be able to cite something that backs up your point.

The last time you tried. You quoted in text that didn't say anything anything like that. You say Od Laguna maintains the the ReZero universe. And by extension if he can destroy that he can destroy the "ReZero universe". But from what I'm reading Od Laguna is something that supposedly exists in the form of a crystal at center of the world. See it still doesn't extend that attack beyond the borders of that one world. That is an assumption you are making and then referring to it as established fact.

If you want to have a discussion about whether or not destroying Od Laguna destroys the place where this hypothetical fight is happening fine. But you need to be upfront about the fact that assumption is what your basing your claim on. That's why it is misleading.

 

[Blakestnight666]

"Notable debating sites"

Yesterday I was reading how they calculated how strong a Madoka character was. They used an animation in a videogame where her attack clears the sky from clouds, so with this they did some math as to how strong an attack has to be to clear the sky (????) and then multiplied this several times because character progression... And then used this to scale another character in this tournament. Just bullshit after bullshit relying on bullshit. Very notable.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

And honestly this is coming from a guy that overall thinks Vegeta is stronger, but you guys are epically failing trying to show any scenario where he beats Reinhard.

You still haven't given a single Proof as to why dbz anime is non canon lol.

Please provide some thing better than those sites before saying they are wrong.

And lol madoka is mostly a manga/anime series which has way better feats than anything from re zero

And what vegeta can do is he thows Reinhard into the sun.

And one more thing, tag me before you answer me alright

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021 ---

I mean Death Battle put Zoro at faster than the speed of sound or something at Whisky Peak (if im remembering it correctly) ... so yeah, lots of bs from all media around. In the end you can only trust your own kokoro. In Vs Battles they said Aladdin from Magi is FTL in speed, yet he never once moved FTL, only tagged a character that reacted to light. Source material is the most important i guess.

Yeah you can play semantics all day long like this (which is very enjoyable, today i literally made popcorn only to see that it wasnt as active as yesterday), but i also still cant see how Vegeta beats Rein.

Geets throws him into the sun