Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

Luffy straight up said that Cracker's haki was stronger than any one else's he'd faced at that point in time. That was followed through with Cracker piercing Luffy's Gear 4 form, which Doffy couldn't do. So I don't see Doffy's strings slicing through Cracker's biscuits.

Parasite is a threat, but there's nothing stopping Cracker from just, you know, turning his clones back to crumbs.

The way Jack spoke about him and Big Mom's reasoning for sending Cracker, it really doesn't seem like he's YC3 level.

I can see doflamingo musoing his way through cracker's army (while cracker simply replenishes it endlessly). But that ignores the bigger issue at hand. The cracker army is annoying but it's by no means main asset. cracker is simply incredibly strong in general. His one weakness is being a bit of a glass cannon by his own admission but beyond that the guy is physically strong, extremely fast and his swordsmanship is at least good enough to cut through luffy's gear 4 like butter. Gear 4 luffy simply overpowered doflamingo, plain and simple. Doflamingo was pretty much a ragdoll to gear 4 luffy. Meanwhile cracker was actually able to engage gear 4 luffy in close range combat and not get immediately owned.

 

[Ellenate]

bro stop the cap aokiji>ace even with the elemental advantage

You're free to THINK that but you're not dissuading me.

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There's no point in a hypothetical clash where aokiji would have the upper hand.

 

[Nie Li]

You're free to THINK that but you're not dissuading me.

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There's no point in a hypothetical clash where aokiji would have the upper hand.

Elemental advantages are only a thing in One Piece if both fighters are otherwise equal, which isn't the case here. Ace had the potential to become the next pirate king, but he was far from there.

In fact, elemental advantage is the only reason why a fight between him and Aokiji could at least last a while instead of Aokiji simply overwhelming Ace with his better haki usage. Utimately, Aokiji was almost equal to Akainu while Ace was not.

 

[hokageji]

When magma hits something cool it becomes rock.

Akainu is actually a better match up for aokiji than ace is.

There's nothing Aokiji can do to ace.

Fire > Ice
Rock > Fire and Ice
Rock and Fire > Ice
pokemon logic......

All this is ok theoretically but if Aokiji can go to absolute zero, its game over for any scenario.... Magma is just temperature, Ace's DF is inferior in that aspect...

 

[Ellenate]

Elemental advantages are only a thing in One Piece if both fighters are otherwise equal, which isn't the case here. Ace had the potential to become the next pirate king, but he was far from there.

In fact, elemental advantage is the only reason why a fight between him and Aokiji could at least last a while instead of Aokiji simply overwhelming Ace with his better haki usage.

you're underplaying elemental advantage.

Utimately, Aokiji was almost equal to Akainu while Ace was not.

You place aokiji in the same situation, he's getting a hole in his chest.
Heck, replace Akainu with ace, and it's the same result.

Trying to arguing that ace can't match up against akainu just proves my point of Aokiji losing to ace.

All this is ok theoretically but if Aokiji can go to absolute zero

Aokiji is an ice person, not a cold person.

Like ace is fire person, akainu is a molten rock person, and oven is a heat person.

if ace needed a catalyst for combustion, then perhaps aokiji could 5head a victory, but ace is outright fire (and there's nothing ice can do to fire).

aokiji's only hope would be a haki assult and he's getting burnt alive before he can do serious damage.

 

[kkck]

I am not necessarily convinced ace is the one with the advantage here. Aokiji held his own even against akauni and his fruit is superior to ace's... I think this is more of a situation where neither fruit actually likes the other so to speak. Heat and fire melts ice which obviously aokiji won't be a fan of but fire isn't exactly a fan of ice or cold things. Let alone melted ice turning into water... I suppose that at a minimum it's not as unfavorable a matchup against aokiji as magma was....

 

[Nie Li]

I am not necessarily convinced ace is the one with the advantage here. Aokiji held his own even against akauni and his fruit is superior to ace's... I think this is more of a situation where neither fruit actually likes the other so to speak. Heat and fire melts ice which obviously aokiji won't be a fan of but fire isn't exactly a fan of ice or cold things. Let alone melted ice turning into water... I suppose that at a minimum it's not as unfavorable a matchup against aokiji as magma was....

When Ace's and Aokiji's attacks clashed for a brief moment they seemed equal: both attacks nullified echaother, so I dare say their DFs are about equal.

Which is why I think it's safer to simply compare their physical and haki feats. Everything points at Aokiji being above Ace as a fighter regardless of their DFs.

You place aokiji in the same situation, he's getting a hole in his chest.
Heck, replace Akainu with ace, and it's the same result.

Trying to arguing that ace can't match up against akainu just proves my point of Aokiji losing to ace.

I don't think so.

Place Aokiji in the same situation and he would have blocked Akainu with his haki, otherwise he would have never lasted three days in a fight against him. Ace and Jinbei were unable to block Akainu because they were not strong enough.

 

[kkck]

When Ace's and Aokiji's attacks clashed for a brief moment they seemed equal: both attacks nullified echaother, so I dare say their DFs are about equal.

Which is why I think it's safer to simply compare their physical and haki feats. Everything points at Aokiji being above Ace as a fighter regardless of their DFs.


I don't think so.

Place Aokiji in the same situation and he would have blocked Akainu with his haki, otherwise he would have never lasted three days in a fight against him. Ace and Jinbei were unable to block Akainu because they were not strong enough.

Welp, but my post was about fruit dynamics.. And we ultimately just saw one attack from them. Obviously there is no way ace actually has a chance against aokoji. Aokiji fought akainu on equal footing... Obviously ace is a bug on a windshield in this matchup.

 

[Ellenate]

Aokiji held his own even against akauni and his fruit is superior to ace's

Akainu was a better match-up for Aokiji in terms of elements...

Place Aokiji in the same situation and he would have blocked Akainu with his haki

Would using haki spare a logia the effects of disadvantaging elements...?

Luffy is still rubber when coated, so i wouldn't think that's the case. Aokiji should still get a hole blown through him in that scenario... even with haki.

 

[Nie Li]

Would using haki spare a logia the effects of disadvantaging elements...?

Luffy is still rubber when coated, so i wouldn't think that's the case. Aokiji should still get a hole blown through him in that scenario... even with haki.

Using haki would spare a logia the effects of an attack, entirely regardless of elemental advantages.

Aokiji using haki coating (and probably advanced haki that goes beyond his body as the three admirals were hinted of being capable of) would stop the damage from Akainu's punch. And that's of course assuming he was in the same situation as Ace: otherwise instead of blocking he could have just used future sight to let the attack slip through the punch like he slipped through Whitebeard's halberd.


Also, I don't get what your point about Luffy is. Luffy doesn't stop being rubber when he uses haki because he's always rubber. Aokiji isn't constantly made of ice, and he's not a Pokemon either. He could use an ice attack in tandem with his haki to cool down Akainu's punch on top of just blocking it with haki, and he can do that without turning his body into ice.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's tough to debate someone who doesn't understand he difference between active and passive abilities...

 

[albertwv]

imagine arguing that Ace > Aokiji simply because of Fire > ice lol
We saw how Ace vs Aokiji played out, even if it was just one attack Ace was able to counter Aokiji effectively. So I see why you may think Ace >/= Aokiji, I thought like that too initially.
But then we see Akainu vs Ace and how Akainus DF > Aces DF even Akainu mentions it that Ace got careless because they had almost the same DF powers (elemental)
So Akainu > Ace in one hit
Then we see or hear about Aokiji vs Akainu lasted 10 days, which means it was fought evenly for most of the fight. The outcome: Akainu won with some scars, not as bad as Aokiji's lost limb and scarred body.
But I expected Aokiji to lose and was surprised he lasted 10 days fighting Akainu his elemental weakness. We've seen what Magma could do to ice in a second. When Jozu threw an iceberg to Akainu.
So Aokiji is near power level to Akainu, I say if it wasnt for akainus df, aokiji wouldve won. Aokiji lasted 10 days that is a long time to be fighting agaisnt something that should kill him right away, Props to Aokiji.

Now, you have the audacity to say Ace>Aokiji because of Fire > ice when we've seen Ice vs Magma last 10 days. Magma > Fire. OP fights arent solely based on DF power/elementals but also skill and haki and weaponry. Look at Enel vs Luffy, Enel was able to take down Luffy even without Lightning, he fought Luffy who was his weakness.

You are overrating Ace, yeah he was strong but not admiral level or even YC1 level. Ace = Jimbei = Yamato, Ace fought them at a equal standpoint.

 

[LaGOAT]

Akainu was a better match-up for Aokiji in terms of elements...






Would using haki spare a logia the effects of disadvantaging elements...?

Luffy is still rubber when coated, so i wouldn't think that's the case. Aokiji should still get a hole blown through him in that scenario... even with haki.

ur not making sense fire is hotter than magma(in real life) but akainu was able to kill ace. plus akoiji fought akainu for days longer. than ace and jinbei. i mean ace fought jinbei for days despite jinbei having the elemental advantage but it manage to get a tie so again elemental advantage isnt a big deal in OP especially if the person is strong. but aokiji and ace clashed and both were equal. of they fought for real aokiji would till win

 

[Pirate Queen]

You'll are arguing with the same guy that said Luffy getting the Gomu Gomu no mi made him weaker

Don't be surprised to see him thinking Ace>Aokiji

 

[LaGOAT]

You'll are arguing with the same guy that said Luffy getting the Gomu Gomu no mi made him weaker

Don't be surprised to see him thinking Ace>Aokiji

honestly this is the first time ive seen dude lol

 

[XXGenesis]

y'all latch onto these arguments and just keep repeating them...

If a creator doesn't lay down clear rules for his universe, we (the readers) are free to interpret them however we want.

Oda does lay down some of the ground work to the rules and laws of his manga. You are taking personally liberty to share these ideas as concrete not a possibility or speculation.

Which just leaves your entire interpretation to be wrong. But ok

 

[Ellenate]

Using haki would spare a logia the effects of an attack, entirely regardless of elemental advantages.

We've never seen the interaction...

but-

Also, I don't get what your point about Luffy is.

if haki doesn't change what luffy's made out of, why would it change what aokiji is made out of?

the inherent weakness should stand. unless you can show an interaction where it doesn't

Aokiji isn't constantly made of ice.

according to what? assumptions based on logia appearances? that could just be oda taking artistic liberties.

it's the same thing with ace's clothing no bursting into flames/reforming...
or the hulk's shorts never falling off (... thank god)

It's tough to debate someone who doesn't understand he difference between active and passive abilities...

I'm living rent free in your head...

ur not making sense fire is hotter than magma(in real life) but akainu was able to kill ace.

There are lots of different types of fires with varying temperatures. So ace wouldn't necessarily be hotter, especially at that moment.

The fact that you're talking about fire being hotter than magma but arguing that the ice man has a chance against the fire man is.. interesting.

Aokiji vs Akainu

We don't even know what happened in that battle...

Aokiji could've had a seastone uzi and an army of polar bears.

Akainu could've punched him in the first two seconds and the remainder of the fight was aokiji running for his life.

That battle means jack s*** to the statement of "ace > aokiji" (...unless we get more details)

Luffy beating Doff sounds really impressive until you get into the nitty-gritty of it (...as with most of the fight in this manga).

Oda does lay down some of the ground work to the rules and laws of his manga.

He's done a very poor job of it.

The abilities in this manga are a clusterf***.

Which just leaves your entire interpretation to be wrong.

I'd say every single interpretation of how things work in the manga are wrong... especially any theories about haki.

it's all just magic that does what ever oda wants it to do. that's why the anime looks the way it does.




oda couldn't explain this stuff with a gun to his head.

animator: boss what is attack suppose to look like
director *in tears* : idk, just make it look cool

 

[albertwv]

I forgot Ellenate doesnt listen to reason at all. I will stop arguing with him and I hope the rest of this forum does too. He reminds me of somebody and it is quite suspicious on how Ellenate started showing up AFTER a certain someone left.
Moe was kicked out and then Ellenate came into the forum hmm..
They both bring up nonsense and stick to their guns even after being outnumbered and explained why they were wrong.

 

[M3J]

Cracker's greatest defense is the biscuits... otherwise, he was outdone in one punch.... He has no resilience..

It didn't take a punch, Luffy got the idea to bounce Cracker back, and Cracker went through several solid objects when he was sent flying.

 

[Fox666]

y'all latch onto these arguments and just keep repeating them...

If a creator doesn't lay down clear rules for his universe, we (the readers) are free to interpret them however we want.

The creator did made the rules clear: Ace and Aokiji were evenly matched.

It doesn't matter if it convinces you, it's the rules of that universe.