One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

Sure, that's because of the way his DF works.

You can say that about every character.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Luffy is essentially doing better against Kaido then Akainu vs whitebeard so I say he is yonkou teir.

Luffy blew half of Kaido’s brains out with one punch ?

Nani ?!

When ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021 ---

I do agree that Akainu would probably have been finished, but I don't think WB could ever have recovered from losing half his face either.

I believe grey matter was anime only until recently so he probably doesn’t know how Akainu vs WB went down in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021 ---

Luffy split the sky. Luffy is fighting equally to Kaido in base.

Luffy isn't Yonko level is the discussion that needs to be shelved.

There is far more evidence to him being Yonko tier than not

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Fear not my Luffy stans, never fear.

For I am here....

Luffy will be Yonko level when he beats BB and not a chapter earlier.

 

[Fallou]

You can say that about every character.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Luffy blew half of Kaido’s brains out with one punch ?

Nani ?!

When ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021 ---

I believe grey matter was anime only until recently so he probably doesn’t know how Akainu vs WB went down in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021 ---

Luffy will be Yonko level when he beats BB and not a chapter earlier.

I think he will be Yonko level when he beats Kaido, regardless of how Kaido's been downplayed in this forum.
Well, let's amend that to Yonko minus, maybe, given that it's been a team effort

 

[grey matter]

I do agree that Akainu would probably have been finished, but I don't think WB could ever have recovered from losing half his face either.

Agree fully. Like I said high- extreme diff.

You can say that about every character.

Sure.

Point being that, while Akainu did more damage due to his DF, he was KO'd briefly by Whitebeard and would've killed him right there if he didn't slide and fall off

I believe grey matter was anime only until recently so he probably doesn’t know how Akainu vs WB went down in the manga.

Actually I knew of this specific issue, even before I actually started participating in discussions
Cause, some of my friends told me about it, censorship and all

I went and checked out the specific part.
It did change my perception. I thought WB mid-high diff'd in anime, but reading it showed that anime spiced up things a bit in favor of WB. WB high-extreme diff'd Akainu

I think he will be Yonko level when he beats Kaido, regardless of how Kaido's been downplayed in this forum.
Well, let's amend that to Yonko minus, maybe, given that it's been a team effort

Nah, Kaido went through an insane gauntlet.
Luffy will likely extreme diff him now, for me it makes Luffy a solid admiral tier rather than Yonko tier.

Also, nobody can downplay Kaido cause he's the strongest pirate alive at the moment lol

 

[slavkovski]

I just hope the next powerful enemy of luffy either it's another Yonkou (BB, Shanks? or Big Mom) or maybe the Admiral will fight seriously right from the start in facing the SH pirates, straight going for the kill not just knock out luffy and just want to break his resolve or crap like now with Kaido..

 

[LadyVados]

Well, let's amend that to Yonko minus, maybe, given that it's been a team effort

What you call Yonko minus, I call YC1+ and Grey Matter calls admiral level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

That said Oden is yonko level imo so when Zoro fully masters Enma and is able to use all of Oden’s haki…

 

[slavkovski]

What you call Yonko minus, I call YC1+ and Grey Matter calls admiral level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

That said Oden is yonko level imo so when Zoro fully masters Enma and is able to use all of Oden’s haki…

Use Oden's haki? why dont he use his own haki?

 

[LadyVados]

Use Oden's haki? why dont he use his own haki?

Because he doesn’t want to.

 

[Fallou]

What you call Yonko minus, I call YC1+ and Grey Matter calls admiral level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

That said Oden is yonko level imo so when Zoro fully masters Enma and is able to use all of Oden’s haki…

Possibly, Enma is a shortcut to Zoro getting aCoA by the end of the arc...
I'm still in favor of him ditching Enma, or at least getting rid of the residual haki in it, and any trace of Oden

 

[albertwv]

People always bring up in Akainu vs WB, how Akainu melted WB's face off. Yeah of course that would seem that Akainu was the victor, but look at WBs state before and after the fight. WB was low on health, he got stabbed, he got magma punch inside his stomach, took various cannon fire and cuts, and after the fight he took a magma straight to the face but was done yet. WB kept figthing the BBP until his demise.

WBs face was melted off due to the nature of Akainus DF. Say, it was Coby who had the magma DF during MF and he fought Luffy. It would only take 1 clean hit from Coby's magma attack to melt Luffys face. Would we then say Coby> Luffy? The reason that WBs face was melted was because of the magma, heck anybodys face in the manga would be melted if that happened to them, Roger, Shanks, Kaido, even Rocks.
The surprising thing is WB was not fully affected by it, WB was going to die eventually from that fatal wound but he stuck around enough to fight BBP.
Akainu was able to recover a bit and then fight the WBP, the only ones worth mentioning were Vista, Marcos and Crocodile the rest were trash.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I don’t think luffy is quite yonkou level yet
We got those takes after he first equipped with conquerors haki and he lost soon after
Kaido has beaten him twice
Kaido is lifting an island
Has taken hits from law the supernovas and the scabbards as well as Yamato and he’s still going
He actually does present a challenge for yo them
But 1 on 1 they still mid to high diffing luffy

The sky splitting has only occurred when Yonko class fighters have clashed, this is a crystal clear indication.
Kaido has beaten him twice when he was noticeably weaker.
Kaido has had a lot of strain, yes, that is why I said Luffy is Yonko level. You can be a Yonko level character and still be weaker than Kaido. Having a high-dif fight means the guy was on your level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Reread 1010

I did, what does that prove? You've already tried to discuss this dumb point. Kaido was hurt by Zoro in a group fight, not a one on one. Zoro gets his skull caved in against Kaido one on one.

 

[M3J]

Zoro would definitely lose to Kaidou, no doubt. If the slash didn't take Kaidou down, I doubt much else will.

And Luffy doesn't seem to be on an emperor level, not until he can at least fight with one for a while and not lose. Big Mom and Kaidou fought for hours with no clear winner, whereas Luffy's on his third round, I believe.

 

[albertwv]

Also, in hoping to change the topic, where do you all see Izo at? Personally, I see him at YC3-4 level

1. Izo vs Cracker
2. Izo vs Ulti
3. Izo vs Ovens
4. Izo vs Black Maria

Who wins in each case, what diff?

Yeah a change of pace feels right. We're always preoccupied with how strong Luffy, Zolo, Sanji, Yonko, YCs and Admirals are, but we should look at other characters.

Izo in my eyes is weak, hes a samurai with 2 pistols thats weird. From the WBP, anybody outside from the 1-5 commanders, are weak in my eyes, like VA level weak, which is not weak but not impressive, actually even the VAs have performed better than the rest of 6-16 WBP commanders.

Izo could give Black Maria and maybe Oven a challenge, but I dont see Izo defeating Cracker at all or even Ulti.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I didn't even know the two bold ones were a thing lmao, guess it's because I haven't been here long enough. I started participating in OP discussions only a month or so ago

Zoro vs Sanji and Zoro vs Luffy discussions are annoying AF, cause anyone who reads the manga without a strong agenda knows crystal clear what the result will be in each case.
Luffy forever > Zoro
Zoro forever > Sanji
End.

I'm really interested about Mihawk vs Shanks. Hopefully we will get some flashback worth a few episodes at least


***************

Also, in hoping to change the topic, where do you all see Izo at? Personally, I see him at YC3-4 level

1. Izo vs Cracker
2. Izo vs Ulti
3. Izo vs Ovens
4. Izo vs Black Maria

Who wins in each case, what diff?

Cracker mid difficulty
draw could go either way might favor ulti
Draw , advantage oven tho
Iso wins extreme difficulty

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Luffy is essentially doing better against Kaido then Akainu vs whitebeard so I say he is yonkou teir.

Yeah no lmaoooo

 

[XXGenesis]

Big difference between the Yonkou & Admirals that I can see so far within the story, is that Yonkou’s seem to have CoC & aCoC. While Admirals IMO have awakened DF.

I get this idea from the SN vs The Yonkou.
ACoA, & Strong DF powers were only good enough to hurt the Yonkou momentarily, the damage wasn’t good enough…..It’s not until we see Luffy with ACoC & Law & Kidd with awakened DF that they deal some real good damage on the Yonkou.

So yea that my take on Admirals vs Yonkou. The Yonkou are only slightly stronger because of their major Haki attribute of CoC; but Admirals have strong DF powers that are awakened so they can fight them.

We’ve Seen Prime WB & we’ve seen old sick WB…I don’t get it, if he wasn’t sick Akianu was going down, & WB would not have suffered all those critical blows. He’s not a monster like Kaido or BM, his endurance was though, losing half his face, a hole melted in him, etc etc

Akainu IMO proved he’s the strongest Admiral & current Marine. Against other Yonkou I suspect a High Diff fight for either side. The Other Admirals I’ll say Mid-high diff for the Yonkou.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Also, in hoping to change the topic, where do you all see Izo at? Personally, I see him at YC3-4 level

1. Izo vs Cracker
2. Izo vs Ulti
3. Izo vs Ovens
4. Izo vs Black Maria

Who wins in each case, what diff?

Izo vs Cracker - Mid diff for Cracker. I think that Cracker power is just too difficult to handle if you don’t have a good way of destroying the biscuit soldiers. And I don’t see Izo having an attack that can destroy them.

Izo vs Ulti - High diff for Izo. He seams to be pretty agile, he can spam a lot of hits until Ulti is down. But the fight can go to any of the sides, if Ulti hits a good headbutt in Izo… a win for Ulti

Izo vs Oven - A difficult fight… Really don’t know. I bet on Oven just because he seams to be stronger than Izo.

Izo vs Black Maria - Black Maria don’t impressed me at all. I bet that Izo can win with easy against her.

Stopping to think, Izo isn’t all that…

 

[AmitDS]

I didn't think this needs to be said but the Kaido that faced Oden was not his Prime/Yonkou self. That version of Kaido was fighting a Prime Moria wherever that places him in powerscaling lol. The Kaido that is fighting Luffy now is far superior to the Kaido that fought Oden. Basic deductive reasoning should tell us that Yonkou Kaido was stronger than the one that fought Oden (20 yrs of growth, Sengoku's statement on Rocks Pirates, the fact that he became a Yonkou during his ruling of Wano to name a few points) so the argument that Zoro can magically fight present Kaido in a similar fashion to Oden fighting the Kaido from back then is incorrect. This blurring of Kaido's iterations also leads to the misconception that Oden was Yonkou-levelled at the time of his death, which is wrong. He could've fully well grown to be Yonkou level if he survived but that obviously didn't happen so.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I didn't think this needs to be said but the Kaido that faced Oden was not his Prime/Yonkou self. That version of Kaido was fighting a Prime Moria wherever that places him in powerscaling lol. The Kaido that is fighting Luffy now is far superior to the Kaido that fought Oden. Basic deductive reasoning should tell us that Yonkou Kaido was stronger than the one that fought Oden (20 yrs of growth, Sengoku's statement on Rocks Pirates, the fact that he became a Yonkou during his ruling of Wano to name a few points) so the argument that Zoro can magically fight present Kaido in a similar fashion to Oden fighting the Kaido from back then is incorrect. This blurring of Kaido's iterations also leads to the misconception that Oden was Yonkou-levelled at the time of his death, which is wrong. He could've fully well grown to be Yonkou level if he survived but that obviously didn't happen so.

Kaido was is 59 now he fought oden at 39 ( the same age garp and roger annihilated the rocks pirates )
He was close to peaking at the time he fought oden
Constant growth can’t happen in one piece
No he fought moriah and annihilated he and his crew , he won handily plus moriah has clearly regressed a ton since then
The problem is the repeated hype and class he groups oden with
Shanks whitebeard rocks and roger are great pirates that kaido respects in regards to strength prowess and greatness
Heck even whitebeard treated oden different everyone else was called son , he called oden brother
And he spends all the damn battle lamenting how everyone is literally not worth his time or ain’t shit compared to oden

 

[AmitDS]

Kaido was is 59 now he fought oden at 39 ( the same age garp and roger annihilated the rocks pirates )
He was close to peaking at the time he fought oden
Constant growth can’t happen in one piece
No he fought moriah and annihilated he and his crew , he won handily plus moriah has clearly regressed a ton since then
The problem is the repeated hype and class he groups oden with
Shanks whitebeard rocks and roger are great pirates that kaido respects in regards to strength prowess
And he spends all the damn battle lamenting how everyone is literally not worth his time or ain’t shit compared to oden

I'm not saying characters exponentially grow as time passes. I don't see how God Valley is relevant here... BM/Kaido weren't in their Prime as per Sengoku, and Shiki and WB weren't their prime either.

According to the manga Kaido and Moriah fought and were on par with one another so Kaido eventually winning and him and/or his crew beating Moriah's is irrelevant. Aokiji and Akainu fought evenly and Akainu ended up winning. Point is Moriah was not emperor leveled and neither was Kaido.

Furthermore around that time, Roger's only rivals were WB, Shiki and BM with BM and WB already acting as emperors. If Oden and Kaido were emperor leveled back then then it would have been mentioned. Oden even told Kaido to get stronger so that further supports that he did to end up being an emperor.

Anyway, the reason he respects Oden and according to the VC that fight with Oden aroused and exhilarated him the most. The reason for this is because funny enough, Kaido was not in his Prime here so obviously a lower tiered person would fare better against this version of himself. Oden was awestruck by seeing Roger and WB clashing on the island and we've already been discussing how those characters aren't drastically stronger than "Yonkou" tiered people.

Context matters here with him seeing Luffy reminding him of Shanks and Roger/WB, etc. Clearly each of them have differing circumstances for him to respect them. Roger/WB were the strongest pirates and Shanks clashed with him before Marineford (reinforced in King's VC). And lastly, he saw Oden because as I said above, it was his most exciting fight.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Kaido was is 59 now he fought oden at 39 ( the same age garp and roger annihilated the rocks pirates )
He was close to peaking at the time he fought oden
Constant growth can’t happen in one piece
No he fought moriah and annihilated he and his crew , he won handily plus moriah has clearly regressed a ton since then
The problem is the repeated hype and class he groups oden with
Shanks whitebeard rocks and roger are great pirates that kaido respects in regards to strength prowess and greatness
Heck even whitebeard treated oden different everyone else was called son , he called oden brother
And he spends all the damn battle lamenting how everyone is literally not worth his time or ain’t shit compared to oden

But, apparently, Kaido is a Oni, not a human. Maybe his peak takes a little longer to be achieved… Really, for me is pretty difficult to believe Odin is Yonko level… Maybe because I don’t like him so much. Oden is a right hand, a YC1 or a YC1+. Noting more than that

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

But, apparently, Kaido is a Oni, not a human. Maybe his peak takes a little longer to be achieved… Really, for me is pretty difficult to believe Odin is Yonko level… Maybe because I don’t like him so much. Oden is a right hand, a YC1 or a YC1+. Noting more than that

Again we’ve gotten a ton of hype that oden isn’t a regular dude even by YC1 standards
Whitebeard called him brother not son
Kaido sees him more on the standing of Rogers rocks whitebeard and shanks
Even now he still laments no one compares to joke
I just feel that the hype isn’t right hand man hype