ok so
tartarus df natsu > base alverzec natsu
yes or no ?
i dont think it was that exploitive as ignia move. teleportation type is selene magic.
says who. you? you are not the author. the author says all bdsk are suzaku level after selene performance. in other words, mishma does not think anything suzaku did before that comparison is for suzaku only.
after that kirin was the contender for the stongest with mp around gildarts level, who is the only person to make misaki (another person to have gildarts level mp) go serious.
Alcarez arc base Natsu is stronger than Tartaros DF.
It absolutely was. Selene landed hits on Ignia when he was mid sentence. She literally teleported behind him for a sneak attack, but Ignia reacted to it. In the Igneel vs Acnologia fight, Igneel turned his entire body around to look for Natsu. He caught Acnologia's roar out of the corner of his eye and still managed to twist his body out of the way. Ignia was stunned and laying on the ground when Selene landed moonlight palm. What Ignia did simply doesnt count as a sneak attack. Ignia and Selene were facing each other, and Ignia is giving a speech. If Selene was caught off guard, that's on her.
That's what I said. The BDSK is stated to be on Suzaku's level, and Kirin is stated to be the strongest. I accept this at face value. The problem is you think Misaki stating that she only got serious sparring Kirin is better hype than Selene saying her human form is no match for Suzaku. It's not. Beating Selene is better than sparring Kirin. Having Gildarts level MP means nothing. Selene gave an Acno tier MP flex, and Suzaku still won. Selene has higher MP than everyone combined. She's not saying Suzaku is strong because he has Gildarts tier MP. She's saying he strong because he hits really hard. Harder than what she can do in human form with her Acno tier MP. If Kirin is only considered a contender by Selene, then Suzaku absolutely has a claim to being the strongest. Let's not pretend Mashima hasnt been giving Suzaku all the spotlight for the past 2 arcs. If Mashima wanted to hype up Misaki, she wouldnt be losing to Erza. She'd be the one carrying Natsu against Dogramag.
Alcarez arc base Natsu is stronger than Tartaros DF.
It absolutely was. Selene landed hits on Ignia when he was mid sentence. She literally teleported behind him for a sneak attack, but Ignia reacted to it. In the Igneel vs Acnologia fight, Igneel turned his entire body around to look for Natsu. He caught Acnologia's roar out of the corner of his eye and still managed to twist his body out of the way. Ignia was stunned and laying on the ground when Selene landed moonlight palm. What Ignia did simply doesnt count as a sneak attack. Ignia and Selene were facing each other, and Ignia is giving a speech. If Selene was caught off guard, that's on her.
That's what I said. The BDSK is stated to be on Suzaku's level, and Kirin is stated to be the strongest. I accept this at face value. The problem is you think Misaki stating that she only got serious sparring Kirin is better hype than Selene saying her human form is no match for Suzaku. It's not. Beating Selene is better than sparring Kirin. Having Gildarts level MP means nothing. Selene gave an Acno tier MP flex, and Suzaku still won. Selene has higher MP than everyone combined. She's not saying Suzaku is strong because he has Gildarts tier MP. She's saying he strong because he hits really hard. Harder than what she can do in human form with her Acno tier MP. If Kirin is only considered a contender by Selene, then Suzaku absolutely has a claim to being the strongest. Let's not pretend Mashima hasnt been giving Suzaku all the spotlight for the past 2 arcs. If Mashima wanted to hype up Misaki, she wouldnt be losing to Erza. She'd be the one carrying Natsu against Dogramag.
It's clear Mashima wrote in the manga Kirin and Misaki are the top 2. The strongest was compared to Gildarts while another was compared on the same level. That one also stated no one forced her to get serious except the strongest. Meaning she is only behind Kirin. Suzaku was giving the spotlight because he was the first knight introduced. If Suzaku and Haku were on the same level of power of them it would be stated.
Yes Selene stated she is no match for Suzaku in her human form. However the other knights didn't get much screen time as the Suzaku so if they got statements of being stronger than him they is.
It's clear if Kirin is a contender Misaki is the other since they both were compared to the same person. Suzaku wasn't.
It's clear as day Mashima intentions are Kirin>= Misaki> Suzaku> Haku.
The
why? why in one case there is no improvement in base (SO) while another case there is (Alverzec power jump) and more importantly where are you getting these details.
It absolutely was. Selene landed hits on Ignia when he was mid sentence. She literally teleported behind him for a sneak attack, but Ignia reacted to it. In the Igneel vs Acnologia fight, Igneel turned his entire body around to look for Natsu. He caught Acnologia's roar out of the corner of his eye and still managed to twist his body out of the way. Ignia was stunned and laying on the ground when Selene landed moonlight palm. What Ignia did simply doesnt count as a sneak attack. Ignia and Selene were facing each other, and Ignia is giving a speech. If Selene was caught off guard, that's on her.
it maybe on her. ignia might be above. but overall the battle didnt show a huge differnce. hell erza vs kagura or natsu vs suzaku showed a bigger difference.
thus you can only say human ignia > human Selene
but we already know human ignia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suzaku
so how does that work?
That's what I said. The BDSK is stated to be on Suzaku's level, and Kirin is stated to be the strongest. I accept this at face value. The problem is you think Misaki stating that she only got serious sparring Kirin is better hype than Selene saying her human form is no match for Suzaku. It's not. Beating Selene is better than sparring Kirin. Having Gildarts level MP means nothing. Selene gave an Acno tier MP flex, and Suzaku still won. Selene has higher MP than everyone combined. She's not saying Suzaku is strong because he has Gildarts tier MP. She's saying he strong because he hits really hard. Harder than what she can do in human form with her Acno tier MP. If Kirin is only considered a contender by Selene, then Suzaku absolutely has a claim to being the strongest. Let's not pretend Mashima hasnt been giving Suzaku all the spotlight for the past 2 arcs. If Mashima wanted to hype up Misaki, she wouldnt be losing to Erza. She'd be the one carrying Natsu against Dogramag.
so baiscally anyone who gets stuck with erza will get automatically get dehyped. no matter what statement mishma makes for them (because she will never fight the main boss). Misaki and kirin were compared, doesnt matter since suzaku (someone never said to be unique in bdsk) carried natsu against someone clearly weaker than Selene (who he beats solo somehow).
I still cant believe you can believe suzaku selene feat with a straight face after seeing what ignia and dogramag can do to suzaku.
its like saying tenrou ultear >> august
It's clear Mashima wrote in the manga Kirin and Misaki are the top 2. The strongest was compared to Gildarts while another was compared on the same level. That one also stated no one forced her to get serious except the strongest. Meaning she is only behind Kirin. Suzaku was giving the spotlight because he was the first knight introduced. If Suzaku and Haku were on the same level of power of them it would be stated.
Yes Selene stated she is no match for Suzaku in her human form. However the other knights didn't get much screen time as the Suzaku so if they got statements of being stronger than him they is.
It's clear if Kirin is a contender Misaki is the other since they both were compared to the same person. Suzaku wasn't.
It's clear as day Mashima intentions are Kirin>= Misaki> Suzaku> Haku.
The
Lol, no it's not. Suzaku is the one constantly fighting the god dragons. He oneshotted the opponent Misaki lost to.
Screentime and being the first introduced isnt an excuse. The other BDSK got an entire arcs wroth of screentime, and Mashima still picked Suzaku as the one to fight alongside Natsu against the big bad.
Sparring Kirin simply isnt as impressive as Selene saying her human form is no match for Suzaku. Selene is stronger than Kirin.
why? why in one case there is no improvement in base (SO) while another case there is (Alverzec power jump) and more importantly where are you getting these details.
it maybe on her. ignia might be above. but overall the battle didnt show a huge differnce. hell erza vs kagura or natsu vs suzaku showed a bigger difference.
thus you can only say human ignia > human Selene
but we already know human ignia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suzaku
so how does that work?
so baiscally anyone who gets stuck with erza will get automatically get dehyped. no matter what statement mishma makes for them (because she will never fight the main boss). Misaki and kirin were compared, doesnt matter since suzaku (someone never said to be unique in bdsk) carried natsu against someone clearly weaker than Selene (who he beats solo somehow).
I still cant believe you can believe suzaku selene feat with a straight face after seeing what ignia and dogramag can do to suzaku.
its like saying tenrou ultear >> august
I never said there was no improvement in base Natsu or base Gajeel. Im saying base Natsu doesnt have to conpletely outclass base Gajeel to prove second origin is a better powerup. You understand that LFD Natsu and ISD Gajeel are equals still, but FDK Natsu beat FH Zeref and DF Natsu beats Aldoron right? So Gajeel can be competitive with Natsu in his weaker forms, but still completely get outclassed overall in Alvarez. Same logic applies to GMG.
There difference between dragon Ignia and dragon Irene is far greater than Erza and Kagura. Ignia dealt lethal damage. Strictly speaking, we dont know how strong human Ignia is... But if he's stronger than the Natsu that fought Mercphobia, that's already enough to put him above Selene's human form.
No, because Suzaku has showings against Erza too. Whoever loses to Erza isnt getting hyped above someone who oneshotted Erza, much less someone with Suzaku's showings against Selene and Dogramag. At best I can ignore Suzaku's obviously better feats and say they're equals under Kirin. If you remove the certainty of Kirin's superiority, then Suzaku has a better claim than Misaki of being the strongest BDSK. The hype of sparring with Kirin just doesnt stack up to the hype of defeating Selene.
Dogramag has magic that makes his rocks and skin unbreakable. He's simply more durable than Selene in their human forms. Ignia has been flexing on the other god dragons throughout the 100YQ. He's calling Mercphobia a weakling, and giving Natsu enough power to wreck Mercphobia's dragon form. He wants Natsu to be even stronger than when he blew a hole in Aldoron to fight him. He made Selene look easy. Suzaku doesnt even have bad showings against them. He was still in fighting shape after Ignia's labyrinth wrecking blast and Dogramag's unbreakable rocks crushing him. It was only after he saved Natsu from Dogramag's attempt to bury them both that he ran outta power. How does this take away from what he achieved against Selene?
We keep talking about Gildarts tier MP as if it means something. It doesn't. Selene has far more MP than Kirin, Misaki, Suzaku, and Gildarts combined. She has Acno tier MP. Suzaku is stronger than her human form despite having far less MP. If Kirin is also stronger than Selene's human form, it wouldn't be because he has Gildarts level MP. It would be because his magic allows him to hit significantly harder than anyone else with Gildarts level MP.
@kfjrjffjj you can't convince simps lol. I encountered one on Reddit who tried to tell me Lucy has same MP as Erza. You can also see here that some want to dehype suzaku's feat against selene and they don't want to accept that selene said suzaku is stronger than her human form but they easily accept selene saying Eileen has huge MP that's far greater than the world. Also Erza simps think she's vastly stronger than laxus and is more durable than natsu lol. They will cherry pick anything. Selene literally sneak attacked ignia and he reacted they won't talk about this but when ignia sneak attacked and selene couldn't react there's a problem.
I still don't know who is stronger between this two characters. Frankly I think the bdsk and Wendy natsu laxus and erza are on the same tier. But Kirin is definitely the strongest, I even believe that kirin could overpower dogramag. Kirin definitely has hype going for him.
@kfjrjffjj you can't convince simps lol. I encountered one on Reddit who tried to tell me Lucy has same MP as Erza. You can also see here that some want to dehype suzaku's feat against selene and they don't want to accept that selene said suzaku is stronger than her human form but they easily accept selene saying Eileen has huge MP that's far greater than the world. Also Erza simps think she's vastly stronger than laxus and is more durable than natsu lol. They will cherry pick anything. Selene literally sneak attacked ignia and he reacted they won't talk about this but when ignia sneak attacked and selene couldn't react there's a problem.
I still don't know who is stronger between this two characters. Frankly I think the bdsk and Wendy natsu laxus and erza are on the same tier. But Kirin is definitely the strongest, I even believe that kirin could overpower dogramag. Kirin definitely has hype going for him.
Lol, no it's not. Suzaku is the one constantly fighting the god dragons. He oneshotted the opponent Misaki lost to.
Screentime and being the first introduced isnt an excuse. The other BDSK got an entire arcs wroth of screentime, and Mashima still picked Suzaku as the one to fight alongside Natsu against the big bad.
Sparring Kirin simply isnt as impressive as Selene saying her human form is no match for Suzaku. Selene is stronger than Kirin.
that is like saying pre ts natsu is stronger than Hyberion. more feats?
yes, he one shotted Misaki opponent. the opponent was equal to kirin opponent. and kirin lost. and kirin is one of the strongest. how the fuk does this compute
choosing someone to tag with natsu in final fight means they are the strongest?
but kirin is the strongest. what would that mean about selene statement?
I never said there was no improvement in base Natsu or base Gajeel. Im saying base Natsu doesnt have to conpletely outclass base Gajeel to prove second origin is a better powerup. You understand that LFD Natsu and ISD Gajeel are equals still, but FDK Natsu beat FH Zeref and DF Natsu beats Aldoron right? So Gajeel can be competitive with Natsu in his weaker forms, but still completely get outclassed overall in Alvarez. Same logic applies to GMG.
okay, so how did you went from the above argument of yours and created
SO > three months
after all FDK and df are unique to natsu. gray has non of those. does gray also outclass gajeel overall?
There difference between dragon Ignia and dragon Irene Selene is far greater than Erza and Kagura. Ignia dealt lethal damage. Strictly speaking, we dont know how strong human Ignia is... But if he's stronger than the Natsu that fought Mercphobia, that's already enough to put him above Selene's human form.
what? kagura was stomping erza in the start. even if i agree with you about ignia showing superiorty over selene, he never stomped her. they looked equally damaged before the last blow.
No, because Suzaku has showings against Erza too. Whoever loses to Erza isnt getting hyped above someone who oneshotted Erza, much less someone with Suzaku's showings against Selene and Dogramag. At best I can ignore Suzaku's obviously better feats and say they're equals under Kirin. If you remove the certainty of Kirin's superiority, then Suzaku has a better claim than Misaki of being the strongest BDSK. The hype of sparring with Kirin just doesnt stack up to the hype of defeating Selene.
why does the hype of beating Selene does not suffer at all after Suzaku figuring out selene was pretending to lose, getting nearly one shot by ignia (stated to be around selene) and getting kicked around by dogramag (stated to be below selene) (natsu was even teaming with him here)
and why do you refuse to make prediction from this and say openly that
"laxus plus kirin will be too much for human ignia to handle"
Dogramag has magic that makes his rocks and skin unbreakable. He's simply more durable than Selene in their human forms. Ignia has been flexing on the other god dragons throughout the 100YQ. He's calling Mercphobia a weakling, and giving Natsu enough power to wreck Mercphobia's dragon form. He wants Natsu to be even stronger than when he blew a hole in Aldoron to fight him. He made Selene look easy. Suzaku doesnt even have bad showings against them. He was still in fighting shape after Ignia's labyrinth wrecking blast and Dogramag's unbreakable rocks crushing him. It was only after he saved Natsu from Dogramag's attempt to bury them both that he ran outta power.
its not unbreakable. casual move form human selene tier can destroy it. and no ignia never made selene look easy. he made selene look around his level. that is just your prespective, which i told you, i dont see it. and i am, sure many will agree, that ignia didnt look far above selene
i can answer this. an example if you will
a character appears, lets call him "bob", who after severe struggles, takes out gildarts (solo). and then teams up and get kicked around by gajeel.
his equal and stronger loses to say lucy (and her equivalent).
there is also a statement saying gildarts pretended to lose
where would you rank bob? would you think gajeel has higher durability than gildarts after this?
that is like saying pre ts natsu is stronger than Hyberion. more feats?
yes, he one shotted Misaki opponent. the opponent was equal to kirin opponent. and kirin lost. and kirin is one of the strongest. how the fuk does this compute
choosing someone to tag with natsu in final fight means they are the strongest?
but kirin is the strongest. what would that mean about selene statement?
okay, so how did you went from the above argument of yours and created
SO > three months
after all FDK and df are unique to natsu. gray has non of those. does gray also outclass gajeel overall?
what? kagura was stomping erza in the start. even if i agree with you about ignia showing superiorty over selene, he never stomped her. they looked equally damaged before the last blow.
why does the hype of beating Selene does not suffer at all after Suzaku figuring out selene was pretending to lose, getting nearly one shot by ignia (stated to be around selene) and getting kicked around by dogramag (stated to be below selene) (natsu was even teaming with him here)
and why do you refuse to make prediction from this and say openly that
"laxus plus kirin will be too much for human ignia to handle"
its not unbreakable. casual move form human selene tier can destroy it. and no ignia never made selene look easy. he made selene look around his level. that is just your prespective, which i told you, i dont see it. and i am, sure many will agree, that ignia didnt look far above selene
i can answer this. an example if you will
a character appears, lets call him "bob", who after severe struggles, takes out gildarts (solo). and then teams up and get kicked around by gajeel.
his equal and stronger loses to say lucy (and her equivalent).
there is also a statement saying gildarts pretended to lose
where would you rank bob? would you think gajeel has higher durability than gildarts after this?
Not sure how pre TS Natsu vs Hyperion fits into this discussion.
Second origin is superior because it doubles your MP supply. It allows you to use stronger magic that you couldnt previously. Natsu cant enter DF by himself before second origin. Erza couldnt wear nakagami.
No, consistently beating strong opponents make you the strongest. Suzaku beat Erza, Natsu, and Selene. He was the MVP against Dogramag. I can concede Kirin is the strongest due to statements by Selene. But if you want to argue her exact statement is that Kirin and Laxus are only contenders for the strongest in their guild, and therefore others can compete with him, then Suzaku's claim is better than Misaki's in all respects. Sparring Kirin doesnt make you Kirin's equal. Misaki didnt say she won or even made Kirin go all out against her. This simply isnt better than actually beating Selene, and getting her to admit her human form is no match for him.
Human Selene never destroyed the labyrinth wall. Human Ignia could. Dragon Ignia and Dragon Selene could. Human Selene never did.
Exactly. Kagura had Erza outclassed. Selene never had Ignia outclassed. Again, Ignia facetanked all of Selene's attacks. Selene chose to wash off Ignia's flames instead of tanking them. Ignia made no effort to defend himself, and was able to blast a hole in Selene when he started getting serious. Selene greeted Ignia by teleporting behind him (an actual attempt at a sneak attack). She landed hits on him in the middle of talking. She landed hits on him when he was laying on the ground stunned. She simply couldnt do what she did to him, and not for the lack of effort. She was afraid of getting injured. He wasnt.
Your analogy is flawed. Selene only "pretended to lose" by witholding her dragon form. Selene plainly stated that her human form is no match for him. The human form that enlarged the moon. The human form that flooded Ermina from another dimension. The human form whose MP caused Elentear's MP to go berserk and rip the planet apart. Suzaku is superior to this.
The difference between Dogramag and Selene is also not the same as Gildarts and Gajeel. Dogramag is on Selene's level. He's simply got the best defense in human form out of the dragon gods. Suzaku could cut Selene's human form, but not Dogramag. Gajeel was never on Gildart's level. His iron was cracking against Natsu's roar. Gildarts no sold an exploding flame blade, the move that took out Laxus. We dont even have to use use an anologies here. Just look at the feats.
Second origin is superior because it doubles your MP supply. It allows you to use stronger magic that you couldnt previously. Natsu cant enter DF by himself before second origin. Erza couldnt wear nakagami.
No, consistently beating strong opponents make you the strongest. Suzaku beat Erza, Natsu, and Selene. He was the MVP against Dogramag. I can concede Kirin is the strongest due to statements by Selene. But if you want to argue her exact statement is that Kirin and Laxus are only contenders for the strongest in their guild, and therefore others can compete with him, then Suzaku's claim is better than Misaki's in all respects. Sparring Kirin doesnt make you Kirin's equal. Misaki didnt say she won or even made Kirin go all out against her. This simply isnt better than actually beating Selene, and getting her to admit her human form is no match for him.
so we shouldnt look at the story from outside? like the fact that erza and natsu already had their fights of the arc, and the new hyped villain is appearing.
again suzaku has no claim. he beat selene, and all bdsk are around him. meaning they all can do it. Misaki has things after this.
and the fact he couldnt even beat natsu the second time. let alone one shot him.
non of this matters?
Selene plainly stated that her human form is no match for him. The human form that enlarged the moon. The human form that flooded Ermina from another dimension. The human form whose MP caused Elentear's MP to go berserk and rip the planet apart. Suzaku is superior to this.
i really dont understand you.
do you believe in over all battle stats and stuff
ignia>dogrmag >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>selene
because that what it seems.
selene with her huge mp cant defeat suzaku and suzaku cant break the wall, but ignia can causally do so.
selene is above dogrmag but dogrmag was beating both suzaku and natsu at the same time (he only lost because of the stupid orbs). but selene was apparently soloed by suzaku alone
i ask you again. you think kirin and suzaku are around each (even its not in the manga). so do you believe kirin and laxus can beat human ignia or not. at what difficulty will they lose?
The difference between Dogramag and Selene is also not the same as Gildarts and Gajeel. Dogramag is on Selene's level. He's simply got the best defense in human form out of the dragon gods. Suzaku could cut Selene's human form, but not Dogramag. Gajeel was never on Gildart's level. His iron was cracking against Natsu's roar. Gildarts no sold an exploding flame blade, the move that took out Laxus. We dont even have to use use an anologies here. Just look at the feats.
i am guessing you are pretending to be dumb. my example is clear.
Suzaku beats Selene. and his equal or better loses to laxus and erza (both are far weaker than this " form that enlarged the moon. The human form that flooded Ermina from another dimension. The human form whose MP caused Elentear's MP to go berserk and rip the planet apart") . then suzaku with a team get stomped by some one, manga clearly states, to be weaker. these are manga facts.
Doesnt that just prove my point? Natsu could only use DF by eating a chunk of etherion or all of Jellal's MP. Second origin doubled his MP reserves, putting him at that level without eating. How is this not just better than training 3 months? Natsu and Gajeel were never strict equals before and after the timeskip. The powerup that put Gajeel equal with LFD didnt even come from his 3 months of training. Same with Gray and his devil slaying magic. Gajeel and Gray were base Natsu level for most of GMG.
Selene landed attacks on him while he was in the middle of talking. She landed attacks on Ignia when he was on the ground and not defending himself. She had no reason to hold back as she's afraid of getting injured. Ignia was simply more durable. He was willing and able to lie on the ground and tank a moonlight palm to the chest. I very much doubt Selene would be very eager to do the same.
Im not saying being saying a Suzaku is being compared to Kirin more than Misaki. Im saying Selene saying her human form is no match for him is downright better. There were statements about Kirin being the strongest. You can either take that at face value, or argue that "Kirin is only a contender". Either is fine with me, but if you choose the latter...then Suzaku has a claim of being the strongest too. The hype of sparring Kirin is simply not better hype than of beating Selene.
Feats are feats. There's nothing questionable about it. Suzaku beats human Selene. That doesnt suggest Kirin can take human Ignia. We havnt seen Ignia fight in human form. If he's anything like the version of Natsu we saw against Merc, which was done using his power, he folds the BDSK.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Selene's dragon scales = Dogramag's dragon scales. Dogramag's rocks > Selene's human skin. Selene's human form skin can be cut by Suzaku. Dogramag's rocks can't. Dogramag is using a special type of magic that makes his rocks indestructible. Selene isnt.
Beating her human form would do nothing, as Selene can just transform into her dragon form. It would just be a waste of time. I could just as easily argue that Ignia didnt want to waste time fighting a weaker version of Selene, so he entered dragon form to encourage Selene to do the same, simply to make things less boring. It actually be more consistent with his character.
The last attack may have been serious, but it's pretty clear Ignia held back in the beginning. The first attack he used didnt do much. Selene mocked him for it, so he burned her with stronger flames. Ignia talked about how it's his turn before Natsu interrupted them. I mean, this shows that Ignia treating the fight way differently than how Selene is. Selene thinks the God Dragons to be equal, and thinks both would get seriously injured. She has no interest in trading blows with Ignia if she can help it. Ignia thinks he's stronger, strong enough to emerge unharmed from this fight. He is willing to just face-tank Selene's attacks. He wants to see what Selene can throw at him before getting serious.
Selene's human skin > Dog's human skin > His rocks > Suzaku. Selene allowed herself to be cut and took a dive. Dog does not scale to an actual DG. He got beat by Elefseria who already stated he can't beat a true dragon god at 100% despite being far stronger than the one Dog faced 100 years ago.
A KO would be a KO. If her human form was weak then he could have exploited that weakness. Yet he knew he had to go Dragon form to beat her. The same could not be said for any of the BDSK or FT who tried to challenge him. Yet Ignia did not feel he had to against Natsu or Suzaku? Why not go dragon form to force them into getting serious? Oh, bcs he had the power to fodder them in human form and knew they werent a threat to him. There is no implication that supports him going dragon form to bait her into doing the same. He simply saw her as a threat and went dragon bcs he needed to not bcs he wanted to. He wouldn't have pulled it out first if he wasn't threatened by her.
And Selene wasn't dropping her strongest attacks at the beginning either as shown when each were getting the upperhand on one another till the chest shot. Bcs Ignia is cocky as hell lol. Aldo thought he was stronger than all the DGs while Selene used him as a pawn. Ignia loves to fight while Selene (after recton) only fights when it's necessary. Two different types of mindset, but they were mostly shown as equals until Natsu's interruption.
but you have no proof that three months train wont do the exact same thing
so we shouldnt look at the story from outside? like the fact that erza and natsu already had their fights of the arc, and the new hyped villain is appearing.
again suzaku has no claim. he beat selene, and all bdsk are around him. meaning they all can do it. Misaki has things after this.
and the fact he couldnt even beat natsu the second time. let alone one shot him.
non of this matters?
and selene cant lie. its physically impossible for her lie?
i really dont understand you.
do you believe in over all battle stats and stuff
ignia>dogrmag >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>selene
because that what it seems.
selene with her huge mp cant defeat suzaku and suzaku cant break the wall, but ignia can causally do so.
selene is above dogrmag but dogrmag was beating both suzaku and natsu at the same time (he only lost because of the stupid orbs). but selene was apparently soloed by suzaku alone
i ask you again. you think kirin and suzaku are around each (even its not in the manga). so do you believe kirin and laxus can beat human ignia or not. at what difficulty will they lose?
i am guessing you are pretending to be dumb. my example is clear.
Suzaku beats Selene. and his equal or better loses to laxus and erza (both are far weaker than this " form that enlarged the moon. The human form that flooded Ermina from another dimension. The human form whose MP caused Elentear's MP to go berserk and rip the planet apart") . then suzaku with a team get stomped by some one, manga clearly states, to be weaker. these are manga facts.
Terrible excuse. Erza fought a fodder in Youko. Suzaku would oneshot her. Suzaku after beating Erza and Natsu, went on to fight Selene. That was his actual fight of the arc.
No. The BDSK all being on Suzaku's level doesnt mean they can all beat human Selene. At least, not in the same way.
There's no reason to believe she's lying.
Ignia > The rest.
Selene >= Dogramag.
Dogramag's rocks > Selene's human form skin
Ive answered this question several times now. We dont know Ignia's human form actually is. If he scales to the Natsu that beats Mercphobia, and he should, he wipes the floor with Suzaku and Kirin.
Also, I dont believe Suzaku and Kirin are equals. I believe Kirin is stronger, because the statements saying Kirin is the strongest. Im saying if youbdont take those statements at face value, then Suzaku's beating Selene is faaaaaaaaaaaaar greater an accompishment than sparring Kirin.
Whose playing dumb here? Suzaku beat Erza. This entire discussion should have ended at that. That's a manga fact too.
Selene's human skin > Dog's human skin > His rocks > Suzaku. Selene allowed herself to be cut and took a dive. Dog does not scale to an actual DG. He got beat by Elefseria who already stated he can't beat a true dragon god at 100% despite being far stronger than the one Dog faced 100 years ago.
A KO would be a KO. If her human form was weak then he could have exploited that weakness. Yet he knew he had to go Dragon form to beat her. The same could not be said for any of the BDSK or FT who tried to challenge him. Yet Ignia did not feel he had to against Natsu or Suzaku? Why not go dragon form to force them into getting serious? Oh, bcs he had the power to fodder them in human form and knew they werent a threat to him. There is no implication that supports him going dragon form to bait her into doing the same. He simply saw her as a threat and went dragon bcs he needed to not bcs he wanted to. He wouldn't have pulled it out first if he wasn't threatened by her.
And Selene wasn't dropping her strongest attacks at the beginning either as shown when each were getting the upperhand on one another till the chest shot. Bcs Ignia is cocky as hell lol. Aldo thought he was stronger than all the DGs while Selene used him as a pawn. Ignia loves to fight while Selene (after recton) only fights when it's necessary. Two different types of mindset, but they were mostly shown as equals until Natsu's interruption.
She literally tells us that her human form is no match for him later on.
Elfseria was weakened after gettingnhis heart eaten. That's why he could no longer face the other god dragons. Dogramag may have been the weakest god dragon, but he was still on their level. His rocks have better durability than Selene's skin. Selene was getting cut on her face way before finding out about Kirnugi.
Natsu was already serious from the moment Ignia arrived. He told as much. Ignia also knows how strong Natsu is when he fought Aldoron. He just didnt believe Natsu would be worth fighting.
Naw, Selene was serious from the beginning. She's afraid of getting injured. That's why she greeted him with a sneak attack (an actual one). Difference between Ignia and Aldoron is that Ignia can actually back up what he's saying. Selene didnt use Aldoron as a pawn. She tried to use white witch to control him, and that failed when he woke up. Or maybe she just wanted him to wake up and wreck stuff. Either way, Selene is constantly looking for stuff to help her take on the other god dragons. Whether it be getting Faris to control Merc or Aldo, seeking out Natsu, taking over Diabolos, or finding Athena.
Ignia has no issue strolling up to the other god dragons, calling them weak to their face, and engaging them in combat. He not only thinks he can take them, but he was confident enough that he could make Natsu strong enough to take Merc.
Terrible excuse. Erza fought a fodder in Youko. Suzaku would oneshot her. Suzaku after beating Erza and Natsu, went on to fight Selene. That was his actual fight of the arc.
irrelavant. mishma arcs are simple. a normal fighting good guy gets one moment of shine, after that back seat. erza, gray and lucy had their fights. they were in the back seat after their fights. meanwhile suzaku was the new villian for the next arc. if erza had one shot him, what will mishma do next arc. he did this just for hype.
ok lets see
ignia> Selene >= Dogramag (even though manga clearly states he is weaker than selene >>>> Suzaku + natsu > kirin/laxus (laxus = erza) >Suzaku >=Selene
Ive answered this question several times now. We dont know Ignia's human form actually is. If he scales to the Natsu that beats Mercphobia, and he should, he wipes the floor with Suzaku and Kirin.
what do you mean? is ignia tiers above other god dragons thus tiers above acnologia as well?
when someone says they are around each other what does it mean. are laxus and say gray around each other?
Also, I dont believe Suzaku and Kirin are equals. I believe Kirin is stronger, because the statements saying Kirin is the strongest. Im saying if youbdont take those statements at face value, then Suzaku's beating Selene is faaaaaaaaaaaaar greater an accompishment than sparring Kirin.
i understand your point.
suzaku feat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kirin feat.
but that statement says kirin is stronger, even though he lost to a mage who is equal to a mage who beat misaki.
but i understand where you are coming from. remove kirin statement about being one of the strongest. you wont even put him in the same tier as suzaku.
sadly he also one shot natsu. and couldnt even put him down later. thus clearly showing that initial thing was for hype only
and
camera creep just took out jellal and erza at the same time
its as if the new villians always one up the good guys
Gildarts no sold the secret art that knocked out Laxus, and beat Bluenote. So no, not below Gajeel in durability. Simply put, Gildarts is tougher than iron.
I mean, this isn't complicated. This is a thread about Erza vs Suzaku. We've already seen this fight. Suzaku won. If you want to convince me that the result will be different this time, Erza has to do things more impressive than what Suzaku is doing. Problem is, Suzaku has been the MVP of the past 2 arcs. He was the most impressive person against Selene, and he was the most impressive person against Dogramag.
Suzaku still had Natsu overpowered. He went from oneshotting base Natsu to overpowering FDK Natsu with dragon scales. There's a case to be made that the FDK scales provide defenses equal to DF Natsu.
If I were judging things purely by feats, then absolutely Suzaku would above Kirin and Misaki. But I'm not. I'm willing to accept the statement about Kirin being the strongest at face value. I'm willing to that the BSDK being are on Suzaku's level too, when all the effects of their magic are accounted for. Much like I do with the Spriggans being on the same level when their powers are accounted for. What I'm not willing accept is hyping Misaki to be above Suzaku purely on the basis she sparred Kirin, because beating Selene is simply better hype than that.
Ignia wrecked Selene in dragon form. I can't speak to his human form, but if he's anything like Natsu when he beat Mercphobia....then he wrecks her human form too.
Rogue flat out said Gajeel wasn't on Natsu's level. I'll agree that ISD is on par with LFD. It still doesn't put Gajeel on the par with Natsu, because the strongest version of Natsu after second origin is DF Natsu. You give Natsu second origin, and now he's at a level where he can trigger DF when he goes all out. You give Gajeel 3 months of training and....he's stuck at base Gajeel level unless he gains an additional power-up.
Scenario: Erza enters the room where Toûka is located and she uses her white magic to make her doll with the mission to protect her at the risk of her life as a loved one. Natsu arrives with Happy and finds himself facing this Erza determined to protect Toûka and to crush any enemy who tries to...
mangahelpers.com
They want her to be Natsu, wish she was same as Natsu in power and role. Even though that clearly isn't the case.
Reality is, her portrayal and feats was always below characters like Laxus in the main series, and only has recently caught up with him and closed the gap to be in same tier. And Laxus is still a bit stronger than her. Her role is that of a secondary MC, similar to Gray and Wendy.
While what Natsu has accomplished ever since x792 are feats that nobody in the guild can even dream of. And he is the primary MC along with Lucy.
Just ignore and move on. Erza and Eileen fans are two fanbases that cannot be reasoned with. Somehow they have much of an overlap too, I wonder why.
Read FAIRY TAIL: 100 Years Quest Vol. 11 Ch. 95 "Plush Doll" on MangaDex!
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Selene said Laxus was a contender for the strongest in FT, while Kirin was said to be a contender for strongest in Diabolos.
If we look at it narratively, this is just typical Mashima way of hyping up Laxus and Kirin.
With fairy tail, we know for a fact that Natsu stomps Laxus once he pulls out DF. The way Mashima has consistently written Natsu speaks volumes, no explanation needed for anyone unbiased here, have to admit it even as a Laxus fan.
Suzaku's feats in both arcs are also unmatched amongst BDSK.
This is specifically why Mashima has to spell it out that Laxus is a contender for FT's strongest. Because it has to be said, since it is not self evident based on the showings in the manga.
Same thing for Kirin, Mashima has to say he could be the strongest.......because that is the way to hype him up. Suzaku doesn't need that, because he himself is the source of hype for BDSK, with undoubtedly the best feats by far in back to back arcs. Because he is the one paired up with Natsu. Because he is the one who faced two DGs.
But yes, this would establish Laxus and Kirin as at the very least top 2 in their respective guilds.
I say Laxus is 2nd strongest FT member there (bar Natsu), Kirin is the 2nd strongest Diabolos member (bar Suzaku).
Erza fanboys are suffering from what I call main character syndrome. Some of them think she's the MC. You could have natsu 1v1 ignia and they'll still say Erza is stronger than him. Erza just must be the strongest better than everyone in the guild even gildarts. She must even be stronger than acnologia. She's so powerful that she could no diff all the dragon gods and solo the verse
How did Erza get more votes than Suzaku...? She hasn't shown the level of speed to react to him nor any defense comparable to Natsu's FDK scales and much less the attack power to take him down. Suzaku faced Natsu, Ignia and Dogramag in a row, and only ran out of MP against Dogra. Erza collapsed after a battle with Misaki alone.
How did Erza get more votes than Suzaku...? She hasn't shown the level of speed to react to him nor any defense comparable to Natsu's FDK scales and much less the attack power to take him down. Suzaku faced Natsu, Ignia and Dogramag in a row, and only ran out of MP against Dogra. Erza collapsed after a battle with Misaki alone.
Erza got one-shotted in canon, but because she had a high/extreme-diff win against someone else in the same bracket as him who fights and deals damage in a completely different way, that means that she's now > Suzaku himself, while Natsu still stayed in the one-shot zone without his defense technique
How did Erza get more votes than Suzaku...? She hasn't shown the level of speed to react to him nor any defense comparable to Natsu's FDK scales and much less the attack power to take him down. Suzaku faced Natsu, Ignia and Dogramag in a row, and only ran out of MP against Dogra. Erza collapsed after a battle with Misaki alone.
