One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Probably used to show how much stronger Luffy's gotten, from having difficulty beating Arlong to beating drugged up Hodi even with the threat of water

 

[McNuss]

Ye


Yeah I'm confused why Oda just didn't make Hodi stronger. He never seemed threatening the entire arc. Great design tho (once drugged up)

Luffy says somewhere during their fight that Hody'd been worth 100 Million for sure. The way I see it, Hody is as strong as pre-skip Luffy, so Luffy beat his previous self, even when handicapped.

I think the idea is present with all their fights.
Hyouzou is just a drunk "Hey look a I got so many swords".
Dosun is a brute who looses control over himself.
Daruma just runs around and talks trash.
Ikaros Much with the fancy head and the multiple limbs is kinda like Franky Centaur.
Zeo is based around looking at panties.

 

[XXGenesis]

No Hody & his crew were chumps…Out of the post time skip hype Hody and his crew was really meh…like even in hindsight

 

[McNuss]

No Hody & his crew were chumps…Out of the post time skip hype Hody and his crew was really meh…like even in hindsight

The rest yeah, just because there's an underyling concept behind them mustn't mean they are all as strrong as the pre-skip Straw-Hat. The Brook one is based on the panty joke for all that matters lol.

But Hody is said to be worth a hundred million, he's like a Supernova, especially when looking at his transformation proccess.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Either the fight was a high diff fight or you think Zoro is incompetent and has poor ability to help his crew out in crucial situations where they needed and depend on him.

It's one or the other.

False dilemma fallacy.
It's either low diff, mid diff or high diff. I think it's mid diff. Fine for you to think it's high diff.

 

[Pirate Queen]

False dilemma fallacy.

That's not what this is because when you expand on the full context you can see Zoro himself notes he can't get past Lucci. That's 1. And 2, if he was holding back it was at he expense of hindering his crew. This is why Lucci made the point of saying the crew would never leave Zoro and because of that Zoro being held up makes him a liability to the crew.

Both these things are backed up by both Zoro AND Lucci.

More context here just strengthens my arguement. I was just keeping it simple.

 

[I Am Atomic]

That's not what this is because when you expand on the full context you can see Zoro himself notes he can't get past Lucci. That's 1. And 2, if he was holding back it was at he expense of hindering his crew. This is why Lucci made the point of saying the crew would never leave Zoro and because of that Zoro being held up makes him a liability to the crew.

Both these things are backed up by both Zoro AND Lucci.

More context here just strengthens my arguement. I was just keeping it simple.

And I don't disagree on your points. With all of that, I still think it's a mid diff. High diff fights are where you take damage and struggle quite a bit to defeat your opponent. Extreme diff is basically you gonna die but you unlock new power.

Depends how we grade difficulty I guess

 

[DeadlyBeast]

But it also begs the question: how would they fare if they weren't immortal or knew they could be killed like normal humans?

I think they would fight differently since knowing they can die would require them to actually dodge attacks vs tanking them. However, unclear how they'd actually fair since we only see them fighting that way and taking advantage of that immortality to attack recklessly as well. At the very least with the DF powers they have shown, the fact they are awakened, and all have powerful haki I think they would still be some of the strongest opponents out there.

A separate but related question for me is their scars? Are they something they got pre-immortality or is there still a way to injure them even if you can't kill them? This could make it possible to beat them in a straight up fight vs having to resort to things like immobilizing/exhausting them. With Kaido the scar was a good proxy to knowing he can be hurt so hoping it will be the same for these guys.

 

[grey matter]

I do definitely think Zoro's fight with Lucci was a high diff too at this point. It also goes to show that Lucci likely is a strong match up against all the YC1 we have seen so far since he gave Zoro so much trouble. I think Zoro going from mostly extreme diff in most of his early fights to low diffs in most of the pre-skip fights has made him confusing. He nearly died each fight in Paradise and then went on taking stroll through the park with fights in New World. Seems now he is getting back to old form and will likely have genuine struggle fights going forward.

A single mid-end named attack (presumably advanced conqueror's) from no KoH, no bandana, with no injury aside from maybe a couple of scratches. Took Lucci to like 20% hp.

Please explain to me how this is a high diff.

If it is the duration (which was blatant stalling from Oda) that makes this a high diff, then was Kaido vs 1010 Luffy a high diff? Not only did it take a considerable duration, he also got hit and injured many times as well. Would it be an extreme diff even?

The Gorosei definitely seem much more capable than they are being shown but maybe they also don't spend enough time fighting. Its been decades since they left Marijoise so when was the last time they actually had to fight (not counting Sabo)? Even strong people get rusty if they spend it just sitting around. Maybe now they will start training again to prepare for serious fights. Oda can use this as legit excuse if they seem more competent next time.

Yea, could be that they are rusty, that works tbh. I doubt Oda will give a proper explanation though.

They were both retconned and underestimated by the fan base. I went back and re-read their original chapters and they honestly were more impressive than most pirates we'd seen leading up to the Marineford war. The only serious injuries they sustained were from each other with the one exception being a bomb exploding inside of Dorry causing internal bleeding/injuries, which he did get back up from not too long after. I think the fact Mr.3 was around made people think he was stronger than them when all he did was trap one in wax that is harder than steel (we've seen plenty of strong people jailed/trapped before so I don't read this negatively). With their current portrayal I definitely think they'd beat Kid pirates too. I think this means Oda is serious about showing Elbaf as a terribly powerful country that WG has just stayed clear of when it comes to trying to take over. They probably are stronger than Wano militarily.

Mr 3 shenanigans honestly did a massive number on their portrayal.
Can you imagine even a tobiroppo/executive being held back by Mr 3's wax?

Yeah, it may be hard/harder than steel, but breaking those is nothing at this stage.

I think it is the Crocodile story of these characters getting introduced too early in the story + haki not being a thing. Oda likely didn't think too much about the future.

And yes, Elbaf is canonically the strongest country in the world, even above Wano which had several commander level and tobiroppo level fighters.
It would make sense that Elbaf has many fighters commander spectrum and their king would probably be a top tier.
In this context, Dorry/Broggy being high-end commander level fighters make sense, given their portrayal as legendary captains of the giant pirates.

The break is going to be very interesting . PLZ do a re read or glance over the last 30 chapters.it’s sure to change & give a better perspective. Giving the many breaks in between chapters, Kuma’s Backstory , All the recaps of events & story telling since reaching Egghead….

Heart Pirates Vs BBP
Kid Pirates vs Shanks
Garps raid on Pirate Island
Sabo’s Reverie Recap/ Aftermath of Reverie
The Whole Egghead Plot set in motion by York.


**Current Topic is Zoro vs Lucci.

*The fandom has Underestimated Lucci..I can admit that for myself.

* Zoro vs Lucci is not an important fight in this arc, The fight gets no panel time & when it did ODA was prolonging the fight, even the fight’s banter admits it being dragged out but can finished if felt like….lol. Final Cut back, The fight is ended like every knew it could…The motivations for not ending it and reason for why it ended is very contrived.

So when taking into account ODA offscreen the fight & stalled its conclusion for plot purposes. Also minus all the flashbacks. Zoro hasn’t been taking all that long with this fight, as if he was struggling. Literally the reasons for him not ending the fight and reasoning for why he ended is Just LODA; Contrived plot purposes.

It was a Mid Diff.
Lol laughing at myself also, we really thought Zoro is just going to Low Diff YC1, just because he has AdCoC which gives him Admiral lv attack potency.

The big thing is Zoro does not have AdCoC for long durations. It’s a skill he hasn’t mastered, if he uses it it’s going to drain his stamina.

No Lucci did not give Zoro a high Diff. We didn't see Lucci landing any attacks. Its conclusion Lucci actually got embarrassed. So plot aside, Zoro could make the fight look like more of a Low diff.

Either Way Lucci is a decent YC1 lv character., with decent endurance & stamina as an awakened Zoan.

Imo Sanji would have High Diff fight, given above mentioned attributes of Lucci, & Sanji’s attack potency always coming into question.

I broadly agree with this take.

IMO it's absolutely unreasonable to push this beyond a mid diff.

To ask though.
If the attack Zoro used was advanced conqueror's, doesn't that imply improved mastery over advanced conqueror's haki for Zoro? Because last time Zoro used advanced conqueror's (in Wano), it was with KoH. This time, it was without KoH

Anyway, in KoH mode, Zoro is implied to be comparable to Oden, which should be Yonko level IMO.
Only issue is the time limit as you said.

But it also begs the question: how would they fare if they weren't immortal or knew they could be killed like normal humans?

Considering that at least Mercury, Venus and Mars seems to be monsters in haki and raw stats, they would fight like any other top tier.
They would use their haki to defend themselves, dodge attacks etc.

 

[Pirate Queen]

A single mid-end named attack (presumably advanced conqueror's) from no KoH, no bandana, with no injury aside from maybe a couple of scratches. Took Lucci to like 20% hp.

Please explain to me how this is a high diff.

I know you won't respond to me so this is for others to respond if they feel inclined to do so.

This right here is a disingenuous take.

Zoro WAS in Koh at 1 point during the fight. We can imply either Zoro ran out of KoH mode or he decided to conserve his haki for a more opportune moment which is where I would put my money on it.

Either way, Lucci resisted Zoro until one of these scenarios happened.

It is not like Lucci went down the moment Zoro used ACoC. Lucci fought Zoro while in KoH mode. That is a fact. Both were tired. Both were in a stale mate for a while.

If you can STALL Zoro while he is in KoH mode that is a hard diff fight.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

A single mid-end named attack (presumably advanced conqueror's) from no KoH, no bandana, with no injury aside from maybe a couple of scratches. Took Lucci to like 20% hp.

Please explain to me how this is a high diff.

If it is the duration (which was blatant stalling from Oda) that makes this a high diff, then was Kaido vs 1010 Luffy a high diff? Not only did it take a considerable duration, he also got hit and injured many times as well. Would it be an extreme diff even?

Yeah sure I can elaborate on how I came to this conclusion, which at the core boils down to using similar criteria as you did and comparing it to input/output of previous major 1v1 fights Zoro was involved in (I think group ones don't help much in these cases). I also just use these as is and do not add interpretation as a reader e.g. in Zoro V Lucci the fight was long is a fact regardless of if you think its due to plot or its due to actual challenge Zoro faced. However, in return I also do weigh duration pretty low on my criteria since it is not really as easy to know the length of a fight and its not a good standard since Oda can make them be minutes, hours, or days within the story.

My levels are:

1. Low Diff - Fight was not challenging and easily won without sustaining any notable injuries and without having to use any powerful techniques.
2. Mid Diff- Fight was somewhat challenging and took effort, some injuries may be sustained, and fighter used some serious techniques.
3. High Diff- Fight was challenging and took effort, some fatigue and even serious injuries may be sustained, and fighter used the upper end of their techniques.
4. Extreme Diff - Fight was very challenging and took life/death effort, serious injuries sustained, and fighter used the best level of techniques they have (may even surpass prior output).

Also note that not every fight labeled the same level of difficulty is exactly the same, they are more like clustered data in a graph. So one high diff fight can be more difficult than another high diff fight, without it entering extreme diff.

With all that said here is a table of how I think about Zoro's 1v1s.

Fight	Level of Difficulty I Assigned	Starting Conditions of Both Fighters	Duration (I do weight this low compared to other factors)	Level of Zoro's Abilities Used	Zoro Condition At End of Fight
Zoro V Mihawk	Extreme Diff	Good Starting for Both	Short	Zoro used max abilities at time	Zoro was nearly dead at the end of the fight
Zoro V Mr.1	Extreme Diff	Good Starting for Both	Medium/Long	Zoro used max abilities and even surpassed himself	Zoro was nearly dead at the end of the fight
Zoro V Brahm	Mid Diff	Good Starting for Both	Medium	Zoro used middle tier techniques (first time he used flying slash but didn't use full one)	Zoro was injured (shot in leg) but still able to fight without much issue afterwards
Zoro V Ohm	High Diff	Zoro injured but okay, Ohm in good state	Medium/Long	Zoro used his strongest techniques at the time 360 cannon	Zoro sustained many cuts and injuries but was not about to die hence not extreme diff
Zoro V Kaku	High Diff	Relatively Good Starting for Both	Long	Zoro used strongest techniques and even premiered Ashura	Zoro sustained many small cuts etc but was still okay to continue fighting after
Zoro V Ryuma	Mid Diff	Good Starting for Both	Short/Medium	Zoro used best he had for 2 & 1 sword style	Zoro sustained a few injuries but nothing major
Zoro V Hyouzou	Low Diff	Good Starting for Both	Short	Zoro used basic techniques	No injuries sustained
Zoro V Monet	Low Diff to Joke Fight	Good Starting for Both	Short	Zoro used a single technique with no haki lol	No injuries or effort
Zoro V Pica	Mid Diff (bordering on High Diff)	Good Starting for Both	Long	Zoro used strongest level of techniques	Some minor injuries, mostly just tired
Zoro V Killer (Kamzou)	High Diff (bordering on Mid Diff)	Good Starting for Both	Short	Zoro used some of his best but not all out	Got a stabbed pretty bad and passed out after
Zoro V King	Extreme Diff	Terrible Starting point for Zoro, Okay Starting for King	Medium	Zoro used his best and even showed new aCoC	Was nearly dead at the end of this fight (some from King), but a lot from Kaido
Zoro V Lucci	High Diff (bordering on Mid Diff)	Okay Starting for Both (they had both fought Seraphim, but Lucci has also fought Luffy prior which I'd say makes him worse off to start)	Medium/Long	Zoro used his best (used KoH) and standard 3 sword style	No serious injuries but appears scuffed up and tired

Basically for me Zoro v Lucci is closest to fights like he had with Ohm, Kaku, and Killer where he did have to exert himself to win but walked away able to continue fighting (fight against Killer being the sole exception). I can definitely see why some say Mid Diff but for me he appeared to try more against Lucci/exert himself more in that fight than he did compared to fights like Brahm, Ryuma, and Pica. I'd say this Lucci fight is like Pica fight in that both are close to the boundary between Mid/High Diff. In the case of Pica it fell on the Mid side but was close to being High especially if Pica managed to do just a little bit more or require more out of Zoro, and Lucci for me would have been Mid Diff had we not seen KoH used and Lucci continuing to fight after.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2024, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2024 ---

Mr 3 shenanigans honestly did a massive number on their portrayal.
Can you imagine even a tobiroppo/executive being held back by Mr 3's wax?

Yeah, it may be hard/harder than steel, but breaking those is nothing at this stage.

I think it is the Crocodile story of these characters getting introduced too early in the story + haki not being a thing. Oda likely didn't think too much about the future.

And yes, Elbaf is canonically the strongest country in the world, even above Wano which had several commander level and tobiroppo level fighters.
It would make sense that Elbaf has many fighters commander spectrum and their king would probably be a top tier.
In this context, Dorry/Broggy being high-end commander level fighters make sense, given their portrayal as legendary captains of the giant pirates.

I do agree they were retconned but not as badly as some others. And yes I can believe something harder than steel could cause issues to strong fighters even today. We have seen people in cages many times unable to escape even when not DF users and the chains at times are not kairoseki. This may also just be Oda doing his usual but techniques that trap, especially DF ones are usually difficult to deal with for all levels of fighters. I explained my thoughts in this previous post I made in chapter thread:

@zetsu banned I had to go back and re-read Little Garden to refresh my memory and you know what in hindsight, you're right. Dorry & Broggy were hella overpowered characters introduced early in the story. After re-read facts are:

• They had over 70k (literal number they said was something like 70.5k) fights with each other. They definitely were exhausted beyond reason since 100 years x 365 is like 36.5k meaning they battled about twice a day. They probably didn't get more than a days rest max in that century
• Dorry drank a bomb so it didn't just blow up in his face but it blew up his insides. And despite that he stayed conscious! This is definitely WB getting effed in MF level since we rarely see internal damage attacks like this.
  • Luffy hitting him with Gum Gum Rocket did take him down but not for long since he got back up to fight when the volcano erupted, which seemed to be minutes to maybe an hour later.
• Dorry was not fully taken down until his fight with Broggy, where he took a slash across his chest a la Zoro to Mihawk in Baratie.
• Broggy is dumb for getting trapped by Galdino but hey this shit happens all the time to strong people. Galdino's DF power is pretty overpowered. The wax apparently when dried is harder than steel. We've seen plenty of strong people unable to do anything when chained up.
  • The snot bomb to the face happened when he was trapped in wax and also didn't actually take him out. He was still conscious and talking right after that so Mr. 5 thing is overblown here.
• Their Hakoku Soverneinty was insane and looked to be on same scale as Kaido & Big Moms. That monster they took down (the Giant Goldfish) was huuuge! It made Dorry & Broggy look tiny and apparently it eats islands and they made a hole straight through it all after the day they just had which followed a century of fighting.

All in all do think they were slept on. A rested Dorry & Broggy definitely would be monsters to contend with especially with the advent of haki. I don't know if they are Gorosei level but wouldn't be surprised if two of them together could fight top tier characters anymore.

 

[HereNThere]

Yeah I'm confused why Oda just didn't make Hodi stronger. He never seemed threatening the entire arc. Great design tho (once drugged up)

I think that was the point as @M3J mentioned. He was a character who would be a threat for the Pre-Time Skip Strawhats, but their growth made him more of a nuisance than a true obstacle. To the point where, even when doped up and within his home element, he didn't stand a chance against Luffy. And, prior to that, Zoro. He was never supposed to be threat.

A separate but related question for me is their scars? Are they something they got pre-immortality or is there still a way to injure them even if you can't kill them? This could make it possible to beat them in a straight up fight vs having to resort to things like immobilizing/exhausting them. With Kaido the scar was a good proxy to knowing he can be hurt so hoping it will be the same for these guys.

I think they gained those scars Pr-Immortality. Maybe they were former Holy Knights and proved themselves excellent pawns to further Imu's will and were gifted with immortality. Something along the lines of the Soul King and the Royal Guard from BLEACH.

Since we're on the topic of Dorry and Brogy, are we going to finally get the Giants finally going to be allowed to live up to their hype? Do you think we're going to get more info on Ancient Giants as well? Actually, I feel a bit stupid for not noticing it sooner, but the Giant Robot has to be based on Ancient Giants right? It has the horns like they appeared to have and everything. A long time theory I've seen is that Giants/Ancient Giants are necessary for one of the Ancient Weapons, which is why WG and Kaido had been trying to recruit and/or replicate them. Maybe the Giant Robot's purpose was meant for one of them?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think they gained those scars Pr-Immortality. Maybe they were former Holy Knights and proved themselves excellent pawns to further Imu's will and were gifted with immortality. Something along the lines of the Soul King and the Royal Guard from BLEACH.

Since we're on the topic of Dorry and Brogy, are we going to finally get the Giants finally going to be allowed to live up to their hype? Do you think we're going to get more info on Ancient Giants as well? Actually, I feel a bit stupid for not noticing it sooner, but the Giant Robot has to be based on Ancient Giants right? It has the horns like they appeared to have and everything. A long time theory I've seen is that Giants/Ancient Giants are necessary for one of the Ancient Weapons, which is why WG and Kaido had been trying to recruit and/or replicate them. Maybe the Giant Robot's purpose was meant for one of them?

They definitely likely this happened prior to them becoming immortal since they guaranteed had to prove themselves worthy before becoming immortal. No way anyone like Imu would waste such a gift on a person more akin to a Spandam. But I do think they must have a weakness that can let them get hurt seriously enough that they can't instantly heal like they are doing now. In a weird way I think of them as the new "logia" where some trick will have to be learned by protagonist. I can't help but wonder what would happen if they are injured using kairoseki for example? Or can they die from drowning? What happens if someone completely vaporizes every part of them where there is nothing to regenerate from? Immortality in manga/anime is never full immunity.

The giants are definitely about to live up to their hype. What that will look like is unknown but I can imagine the strongest giant in Elbaf being an Admiral+ level fighter. Not sure about Ancient Giants and if they have any relationship with Elbaf aside from being giant. We may learn they are a different race all together. Maybe Ancient Giants descendants split, one become the Oni like Kaido and the others became standard giants?

The Giant Robot does appear to be modeled after one of them. Never heard about giants being needed for an Ancient Weapon but I'm doubtful that a whole race is needed, maybe a special giant like Shirahoshi is a special merperson? I've also thought about Pluton in the past in that a giant warship will need a lot of people to man it so maybe that's where giants will be needed?

 

[Byakuya769]

I know you won't respond to me so this is for others to respond if they feel inclined to do so.

This right here is a disingenuous take.

Zoro WAS in Koh at 1 point during the fight. We can imply either Zoro ran out of KoH mode or he decided to conserve his haki for a more opportune moment which is where I would put my money on it.

Either way, Lucci resisted Zoro until one of these scenarios happened.

It is not like Lucci went down the moment Zoro used ACoC. Lucci fought Zoro while in KoH mode. That is a fact. Both were tired. Both were in a stale mate for a while.

If you can STALL Zoro while he is in KoH mode that is a hard diff fight.

Today I learned that Cracker was a high-diff fight for Luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Today I learned that Cracker was a high-diff fight for Luffy.

You didn't know that before? Luffy fought him for like 11 HOURS. How did you think it was anything but a High diff for Luffy?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Today I learned that Cracker was a high-diff fight for Luffy.

Luffy couldn't even defeat Cracker by himself. Without Nami its questionable if he could have even won without it seeming bs like it did with Katakuri.

 

[M3J]

I think they would fight differently since knowing they can die would require them to actually dodge attacks vs tanking them. However, unclear how they'd actually fair since we only see them fighting that way and taking advantage of that immortality to attack recklessly as well. At the very least with the DF powers they have shown, the fact they are awakened, and all have powerful haki I think they would still be some of the strongest opponents out there.

A separate but related question for me is their scars? Are they something they got pre-immortality or is there still a way to injure them even if you can't kill them? This could make it possible to beat them in a straight up fight vs having to resort to things like immobilizing/exhausting them. With Kaido the scar was a good proxy to knowing he can be hurt so hoping it will be the same for these guys.

Yeah, I was just wondering if they'd fight more smartly instead of being all LEEEROY JENKINS

Probably a way to hurt them. Imu might know how and gave them scars as reminders that they're not truly immortal, and that Imu can take them down.

Considering that at least Mercury, Venus and Mars seems to be monsters in haki and raw stats, they would fight like any other top tier.
They would use their haki to defend themselves, dodge attacks etc.

What if their haki strength is due to their immortality or so-called immortality?

I think that was the point as @M3J mentioned. He was a character who would be a threat for the Pre-Time Skip Strawhats, but their growth made him more of a nuisance than a true obstacle. To the point where, even when doped up and within his home element, he didn't stand a chance against Luffy. And, prior to that, Zoro. He was never supposed to be threat.

I think Hodi would have beaten the pre-timeskip Straw Hats. Luffy was being challenged by Arlong as it was but against Hodi who could shrug off pain after eating the pills? Luffy would have been wiped out, and I'm not even talking about on Fishman Island, but on land like Arlong Park.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy couldn't even defeat Cracker by himself. Without Nami its questionable if he could have even won without it seeming bs like it did with Katakuri.

Bro thinks he cooked and backed me into a corner cause I like Luffy

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Bro thinks he cooked and backed me into a corner cause I like Luffy

All of WCI was Luffy getting his ass beat and him barely making it by. No easy times were had, just lots of plot

 

[HereNThere]

They definitely likely this happened prior to them becoming immortal since they guaranteed had to prove themselves worthy before becoming immortal. No way anyone like Imu would waste such a gift on a person more akin to a Spandam. But I do think they must have a weakness that can let them get hurt seriously enough that they can't instantly heal like they are doing now. In a weird way I think of them as the new "logia" where some trick will have to be learned by protagonist. I can't help but wonder what would happen if they are injured using kairoseki for example? Or can they die from drowning? What happens if someone completely vaporizes every part of them where there is nothing to regenerate from? Immortality in manga/anime is never full immunity.

There is most certainly going to be a trick to immortality. I don't know about Sea Stone being effective though. We don't know if they gained those abiltiies from DFs or through other means, so the sea may not be weakness for them.