American Politics

[kkck]

Rather than a establishment republican running as a third party option it would make more sense to simply have the convention select someone else. It wouldn't make sense to have trump as the nominee but having virtually no one in the party support him. The third party option would be like the republican party sabotaging itself. It's guaranteed to loose. At least in kicking trump out the worst case scenario is trump running as an independent....

 

[GrySun]

Rather than a establishment republican running as a third party option it would make more sense to simply have the convention select someone else. It wouldn't make sense to have trump as the nominee but having virtually no one in the party support him. The third party option would be like the republican party sabotaging itself. It's guaranteed to loose. At least in kicking trump out the worst case scenario is trump running as an independent....

Are you serious? Yeah good luck with denying the nomination to the person who got the majority of the people's support. That surely doesn't equate to the GOP commiting suicide, noooo.

 

[kkck]

Are you serious? Yeah good luck with denying the nomination to the person who got the majority of the people's support. That surely doesn't equate to the GOP commiting suicide, noooo.

but how is that any different from rooting for a third party option? The third party option is every bit as bad except that the "real" republican candidate does not get to run as a republican. And in the end, the actual purpose the convention exists is to weed out potential donald trumps. As in, removing candidates which don't hold the party's values or would otherwise be too unpopular to win the general election. And specially for that last one, they can make a pretty good case for it. It's not like the republican party is a government institution which necessarily must be run in a specific way. The republican party is a private institution which makes its own decisions. Of course, the most likely scenario is that the republican party will simply suck this up and whatnot. But my point is that if they by any chance choose to not elect as the final candidate, however remote the chance, it makes more sense to simply remove trump and put their own member rather than stop supporting trump and support a third party person who wouldn't even officially run as a republican.

 

[GrySun]

but how is that any different from rooting for a third party option? The third party option is every bit as bad except that the "real" republican candidate does not get to run as a republican. And in the end, the actual purpose the convention exists is to weed out potential donald trumps. As in, removing candidates which don't hold the party's values or would otherwise be too unpopular to win the general election. And specially for that last one, they can make a pretty good case for it. It's not like the republican party is a government institution which necessarily must be run in a specific way. The republican party is a private institution which makes its own decisions. Of course, the most likely scenario is that the republican party will simply suck this up and whatnot. But my point is that if they by any chance choose to not elect as the final candidate, however remote the chance, it makes more sense to simply remove trump and put their own member rather than stop supporting trump and support a third party person who wouldn't even officially run as a republican.

>Assuming they're going to oppose him at all. And yes despite both being bad moves by them, Kasich or someone going 3rd party is still much better than refusing Trump the nomination even if he has all the delegates needed. Anyone can run 3rd party, so Kasich running shouldn't make it seem like the GOP is behind it.
Furthermore, the GOP aren't complete retards. They know that they are screwed in both options, so they probably won't opt for neither and just sit back and accept their defeat while having Trump run as their nominee.

What you're talking about is a brokered convention though, in which they still could've selected someone else. But as Trump will definitely have all the delegates needed to become the nominee by default, refusing him at that point is their doom.

Yes they are a private institution, but they still rely on the population to be relevant at all. If Trump is denied the spot now there will be a huge number of republicans forever abandoning the party, which means that they will never be able to get one of their people as the president, and that means permanent democrat rule. Give me one reason why they would destroy their entire party this way. I know you're not saying that they will do it, but you shouldn't make it seem like there is a small chance of that happening because there is not.

 

[Gats]

So I was considering to change my avatar since it has been forever but I guess there might be not point to do so now.

I guess that the bright side is that Ted Cruz would have been a worse option. lol see what we're considering a brighter side now ?

 

[Josef]

Trump said he wants to be the Republican nominee, I think he wants that MORE than an Independent run...the least that could happen if he is denied is that he leaves the party along with his electorate. There might be riots and stuff in the streets if they so blatantly deny him. He has said that he has no control over his supporters, which vary from extreme right to some aspects of the left populist movement. It's not a very good group of people to piss off. Also Trump will probably win the Independent vote, as well as new voters, once the campaign goes national all sorts of things could shift. The media is the bastion of PRO-Hillary propaganda. Never will they give the edge and real reporting on Donald Trump, the thing happening to Bernie will happen to Trump in the general.

Trump is even opening the door for some frustrated Bernie supporters of the "Bernie or Bust" movement, even Susan Sarandon said she'd not be voting for Hillary....SUSAN FUCKING SARANDON, Trump seized the opportunity then and is seizing it now, he has been talking about the crooked system of the Democrats even more in recent weeks. However improbable it is for Sanders supporters to defect to Trump, he is playing this card....we'll see how he frames it in the future.

Hillary is the person least challenged by the media, up to this point, it will be more difficult for them to be the gatekeeper for her once Trump unleashes.

It will be more interesting how Bernie treats Hillary after she beats him in delegates and gets to the half way number. His position could decide the race moving forward. Seeing as tho Cruz was less of a challenge to Trump than Bernie was to Hillary.

 

[GrySun]

It will be more interesting how Bernie treats Hillary after she beats him in delegates and gets to the half way number. His position could decide the race moving forward. Seeing as tho Cruz was less of a challenge to Trump than Bernie was to Hillary.

He will endorse her, I'm almost certain of it. As unfair as he was treated he'd rather suck it up than split the democrats apart and make a Trump presidency almost certain. Sanders often talked about democrat unity, I can't see him doing anything other than endorsing Clinton.

 

[kkck]

>Assuming they're going to oppose him at all. And yes despite both being bad moves by them, Kasich or someone going 3rd party is still much better than refusing Trump the nomination even if he has all the delegates needed. Anyone can run 3rd party, so Kasich running shouldn't make it seem like the GOP is behind it.
Furthermore, the GOP aren't complete retards. They know that they are screwed in both options, so they probably won't opt for neither and just sit back and accept their defeat while having Trump run as their nominee.

What you're talking about is a brokered convention though, in which they still could've selected someone else. But as Trump will definitely have all the delegates needed to become the nominee by default, refusing him at that point is their doom.

Yes they are a private institution, but they still rely on the population to be relevant at all. If Trump is denied the spot now there will be a huge number of republicans forever abandoning the party, which means that they will never be able to get one of their people as the president, and that means permanent democrat rule. Give me one reason why they would destroy their entire party this way. I know you're not saying that they will do it, but you shouldn't make it seem like there is a small chance of that happening because there is not.

Yes, I am talking about the brokered convention. I am not sure it really is their doom though. It would be hugely unpopular but straight up doom might be an exaggeration. Sure, his supporters might protest (or riot) but reading a bit further into his support does provide some insight. At least up to about month ago from all the republican votes trump had support from about a third of them. Which translated to about 10% of the entire voters. Overall, he is not quite as popular as he seems. And every piece of available data does suggest trump is hugely unpopular at a general election. Things would have to change quite dramatically from this point for that to change. Which considering trump got this far at all could happen but by all accounts remains a longshot.

And I think there is good chance the extent to which trump is hated will get the convention to act. A few days ago I posted a link about what the republican party thought about ted cruz... He was referred to as anything in between satan himself and a son of a bitch. And even then ted cruz was the guy whom the republican establishment preferred over trump. With that in mind saying the republican party has a visceral hatred for trump is sort of an understatement. The most likely scenario is indeed trump ends up the nominee however the hatred the party has for him is not to be underestimated.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2016, Original Post Date: May 4, 2016 ---

He will endorse her, I'm almost certain of it. As unfair as he was treated he'd rather suck it up than split the democrats apart and make a Trump presidency almost certain. Sanders often talked about democrat unity, I can't see him doing anything other than endorsing Clinton.

Agreed. While the tone between them got nastier as the race went on there is very little reason to think they hate each other. While hillary is not as progressive as sanders, it should be a given that he would take hillary over a republican alternative. He might have been competing against Hillary for the nomination but in the end trump is more or less the embodiment of what sanders stands against.

 

[SharkBait]

I would have never predicted Trump would be the last man standing.
Sanders fans are deluding themselves if they think Sanders would destroy Trump in a general election.

 

[kkck]

I would have never predicted Trump would be the last man standing.
Sanders fans are deluding themselves if they think Sanders would destroy Trump in a general election.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-sanders-says-he-consistently-beats-donald-t/
Maybe not so much.Overall bernie is a pretty solid candidate.

 

[shionoro]

Sanders fans are deluding themselves if they think Sanders would destroy Trump in a general election.

That's not true.
From the polls conducted so far, the other reps (minus carson and trump) would have had a good shot at winning against clinton, but sanders would have won against all of them, including trump.
Basically, clinton only has the good chances she has now because trump is the worst candidate for the generals.

 

[kkck]

I am actually a little bit worried that trump, against all logic, would manage to have sort of moral highground over hillary. Overall trump has been a pretty amoral runner. He uses his wealth, women and overall opulence to his advantage even though basically any of those things should generally be detrimental to a candidate. Hilary's wealth is something trump can and will use against her. The whole clinton scandal from the 90s is definitely gonna be brought up even more. It's idiotic for trump to have any degree of moral highground on these subjects however in the end it is not stuff which hurts him. In turn it can hurt hillary. She needs to prepare long and hard to respond to this in a way which does not hurt her....

 

[Josef]

I'm not even debating Hillary as a lesser of two evils, judging from her husbands presidency and the way they treated the Balkans, Bill Clinton might have been better for domestic policy in the USA, but I don't think he has a good reputation outside of the USA. Neither does Hillary, all they have is celebrity going for them. it's obvious that big business and the media are with Hillary. The person with Trump is Trump and he is his own problem, Hillary on the other hand is more calculating and vicious than Trump ...who even himself said that he is going into politics like a bulldozer. Frankly I can't debate Trump since there is not much going for him politics-wise. His comments on torture show his inexperience, tho he might not actually do everything he riled everyone up for that he'd do. And that would make him the most unpopular president ever even if he does not deliver for his base.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2016, Original Post Date: May 5, 2016 ---

Sanders is the only candidate who can walk the walk after he talks the talk. I just can't believe he has not gone after Hillary more when he had the chance. They were sabotaging him with BernieBros thing and with the delegate system...yet he was more collected about it. You can't be, he should look at how Donald Trump dealt with it, honestly.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2016 ---

That's not true.
From the polls conducted so far, the other reps (minus carson and trump) would have had a good shot at winning against clinton, but sanders would have won against all of them, including trump.
Basically, clinton only has the good chances she has now because trump is the worst candidate for the generals.

I'd argue Cruz was worst, he only had the evangelical vote and the values part of the party, Trump had Independents, less conservative and even more conservative, as well as libertarians.

Libertarians were supposed to go for Paul. Trump took em.
Evangelicals for Cruz. Trump took em.
Independents and Moderate conservatives for Kasich and or/Rubio. Trump took em.

Trump has riled up Sports people, casino people, people that normally don't think or loot at politics. He is a genius brander and marketer, from the highest to the lowest commoner, he is right when he says that the GOP got more votes than ever before in a primary. Those new votes were him.

 

[xi0]

Rather than a establishment republican running as a third party option it would make more sense to simply have the convention select someone else. It wouldn't make sense to have trump as the nominee but having virtually no one in the party support him. The third party option would be like the republican party sabotaging itself. It's guaranteed to loose. At least in kicking trump out the worst case scenario is trump running as an independent....

One option damages the party way more than the other. It's as simple as that really.

 

[M3J]

What blatant lie from a politician have I believed? Everything I believe is supported by facts researched by reputable news sources.

No it's not, you even used Fox News consistently, as well as other biased sources. Most of things you believe in are supported by nothing but bullshit, and there's proof you have believed in many blatant lies from politicians. Planned Parenthood for one, abortion for second, and many other stuff that I can't remember right now.

To be fair though, you don't or didn't know what refugee meant either. So many people need to stop looking at the world through their horrible, pampered point of view and start actually thinking about different points of view.

And he has alienated a lot of people, his recent nickname for Hillary(Crooked Hillary), he basically implied that most of her woman supporters can't see beyond their gender, I don't think anyone would like to have their intelligence questioned.

Hillary has some mud under her feet and some skeletons in her closet, but Trump is a walking controversey and she already knows how to use his bullshit to her advantage.
And I completely agree on the pundits being 'trustworthy'

From the arguments I have heard and read, there's no lie there. Instead of looking to see what the person will do for the cause, they just see them as a "symbol." Even if Hillary does support feminism, is she supporting the overall idea or is it only for certain race or ethnicity?

And apparently Hillary has tons of mud and countless skeletons in her closet, which makes the stupid shit Trump has done and said look like minor irritation. But then again, ass Trumpet is spreading hate and approving of hate crimes during his rallies.

He will endorse her, I'm almost certain of it. As unfair as he was treated he'd rather suck it up than split the democrats apart and make a Trump presidency almost certain. Sanders often talked about democrat unity, I can't see him doing anything other than endorsing Clinton.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2016, Original Post Date: May 5, 2016 ---

Sanders is the only candidate who can walk the walk after he talks the talk. I just can't believe he has not gone after Hillary more when he had the chance. They were sabotaging him with BernieBros thing and with the delegate system...yet he was more collected about it. You can't be, he should look at how Donald Trump dealt with it, honestly.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2016 ---

The thing is, will Sanders be allowed to walk the walk? I wouldn't be shocked if he lost any support from the Congress or politicians as president, especially given the negative views of socialism.

Sanders has proven to be a pretty good and cool person with the things he's done and how he's reacted. Shame a lot of people don't see that.

 

[Philia]

I think Sanders will probably make a better president than Trump or Hillary.
But does he realistically has any chance left to win the nomination? If he hasn't then shouldn't he drop out and support Clinton against Trump?

 

[shionoro]

I still think that Sanders showed us an interesting change in the american society.
Even if we jsut go ten years back, it would have been unheard of that someone called a 'socialist' even gets to run for president.
And in this election, he even had chances of winning. It didnt happen, but it's not like his campaign was ashamingly bad.
This can be a clue for the future.
Even clinton was forced to switch to a more leftistcourse after she saw sanders's success with it.

The republicans have no future with someone like trump. Trump is a sign that the only people voting for them are rather hateful apolitical people.
And if trump loses the general election (and he will) then their options are to embrace those guys fully (and drive away the more sane reps and still not have enough to beat the dems) or let the guys trump's escapades brought them go and try tobecome a more credible party again (which will take time).

But for the democrats, more leftist politicians have a future.
They can even get some protest voters from the trump group because they go against the rich (and we we are honest, are kind of populistic).

And this is a change sanders is partially responsible for and can be proud of.

 

[kkck]

Well, sander's base was to begin with young people. Other candidates had support from younger people but nothing compared to sanders as far as I can tell. Which makes sense, millennials are known to be well more progressive than the previous generation. If the young people today are so inclined towards being progressive then evidently the future of the country is in that direction.

 

[shionoro]

Exactly. People like the bernie bros supporting sanders will grow in numbers, while the classic rep voters and dem establishment voters are declining in numbers over time.
Clinton had big edge of black votes, too, for historical reasons.
Without that, the whole Primary could have looked very different.

 

[GrySun]

And if trump loses the general election (and he will)

Allow me to quote you when he's sitting in the white house.