Hangout - Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Hangout Thread | Page 367 | MangaHelpers



  • Join in and nominate your favorite shows of the summer season 2023!

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
For most humans accumulating power and experience takes years. I guess there are many young low ranks and apprentices because they are what remains after the war and some old farts with high rank (they lived due to power and experience) because the majority of the middle age and middle rank knights just died 16-18 years ago? Also Britania entered the new age of humans a little while ago so their race will overall only become more powerful and dominant. I guess in the future the other races may be even more on the decline in both population and power...

EoS, magic may slowly but surely disappear entirely from the world as humankind slowly enters the age of science and modernity.
But that's the thing, I expected for a few more humans to have risen to task in the past 16-18 years even in Liones or surrounding areas(not only Arthur's camp), since Arthur started pillaging Britannia, and the humans would be forced to awaken to magic and enhance it(in the context where magic ability now evolves/transforms). But it's still the teens who were born around the time the 2 gods were killed and Chaos was released who show the best potential and evolve like lightning, compared to their parents' generation. We still only have ruby for adults like Pelliot and Golgius, yet Golgius' daughter must already be ranked higher, to be an official Court mage, and yet he's over twice her age( and we do know from a Q&A that one's magic can only evolve with age)... yet the only 2 human HKs who managed anything against MG were Dreyfus and Isolde, the rest were plain sitting ducks, no better than the civilians.
 

Yakkun

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,060
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
But that's the thing, I expected for a few more humans to have risen to task in the past 16-18 years even in Liones or surrounding areas(not only Arthur's camp), since Arthur started pillaging Britannia, and the humans would be forced to awaken to magic and enhance it(in the context where magic ability now evolves/transforms). But it's still the teens who were born around the time the 2 gods were killed and Chaos was released who show the best potential and evolve like lightning, compared to their parents' generation. We still only have ruby for adults like Pelliot and Golgius, yet Golgius' daughter must already be ranked higher, to be an official Court mage, and yet he's over twice her age( and we do know from a Q&A that one's magic can only evolve with age)... yet the only 2 human HKs who managed anything against MG were Dreyfus and Isolde, the rest were plain sitting ducks, no better than the civilians.
Could the nature of magic have changed in those years and anyone from before simply can't evolve in the same way?

As for Meragaland, that was a bit of an exhibition fight. People were largely useless against Grey Hendy too, albeit it was still handled better.
 

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
Could the nature of magic have changed in those years and anyone from before simply can't evolve in the same way?

As for Meragaland, that was a bit of an exhibition fight. People were largely useless against Grey Hendy too, albeit it was still handled better.
I was thinking about the nature of magic change as well, but it makes no sense to affect humans differently, based on generation. Besides, as noted before, Arthur's Camelot has many humans, of all generations, developing further. Or so I think, since Nakaba waited till now to introduce knights like Vargese, Ironside, Morty, Anne's mom, Pelle, etc, who must've been around during Old Camelot as well. But we never saw them doing anything during the TC invasion and battle with the masters, Zel and turncloak Mel... we never saw them at all...so some of these people earned their more menacing levels after HW 2. Not all of them use staffs, so most of the power up must come from nature, their own nature under indirect Chaos influence. It's just the handling, Nakaba made all of the randoms of the Liones army look like fodder to highlight the kids.
 

Yakkun

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,060
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Hey you all, have a nice new years eve! I'm looking forward to discussing NNT and 4KotA with you in 2024! Stay healthy and safe.
 

FKS

Mangahelper
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Mangahelper
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
2,898
Reaction score
14,376
Gender
Male
Country
France
Nakaba updated his blog: http://blog.livedoor.jp/suzukinakaba/archives/52232750.html

TL of the message:
Birthday celebration comment
Thank you so much, everyone!
It's been 30 years since I debuted with a one-shot. I totally feel like getting close to being an old man with the shoulders and lower back letting out a scream. Probably. But! As long as I get everyone's support, I can continue drawing while drinking!
It isn't just Nasiens reappearing after a long time in 4KoA with lead colors in this week's WSM, both King and Diane also reappeared in the series after quite a while!
As a separate work, I drew the covers for the new edtions of "Rising Impact" Volumes 1 and 2 (two out of 8 in total). Man, does it take me back. (Laughs)
 
Last edited:

Redpercy

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
May 6, 2023
Messages
378
Reaction score
188
Age
22
Country
Morocco
Mortlach is the highest ranking CK they had met and the one with most intel on Percy and his roots( even Chion interogating him further on the LS spell Ironside used might've given them something to work with if he has access to Merlin, Gowther and whatever ancient knowledge or research materials they mght have), defeated and captured to this point in the manga. Nanashi seems to be out of Arthur's good graces and nobody knows for sure if he is still involved in Arthur's closer held plans...but Morty was the most valuable prisoner they ever got their hands on. It was him they needed securing too, for further intel if they managed to prevent whatever Arthur does to remotely kill them. Percy decided to leave on his own, out of his stupid choice matching the mess Chion himself pulled this episode, but who knows if any detail they could get out of Morty, maybe with Gowther's Invasion, would've been helpful to call him back.
I don't know where your belief that Mortlach is important comes from, but he doesn't seem that way at all
Other than his information about Percival's origins, all of which he has already disclosed, he has nothing else useful.
He is not even important to Arthur and sends him on a suicide mission since his only advantage is that he is a relative of Ironside and knows of Percival's past.
Arthur even used Ironside as a proxy to appoint him and did not meet him directly, while he directly discussed with Nanashi about Lancelot's strength and the reason for not using his right hand.
So even if Ironside lived, he wouldn't have been of any benefit, so his death was the best option

Take this can of worms you opened back to the suitable manga thread and try to prove it edible, I'll dismantle all of your suppositions and give examples of worse mistakes from the others for comparison to show how unfounded your opinion is. We have no strokes of genius from her so far, but no huge mistakes of (common) sense either, especially not in comparison with what others in their group do. Consistently even. Technically, we have no clue to base any objective IQ comparison between these kids, just as there were no grounds for the phantasmagoric PLs some people calculated for Escanor back in the day. But there are comparable feats in stupid choices and Isolde doesn't quite make it high within our given selection.
Also, yes, she called Percival a "boy", cause that's what he is, he's not old enough to be a "man", clearly not that mature, and he's most definitely not a "girl", which she is, even when in possession of an adult's job(as a HK). Does that change the fact that he was supposed to display more sense than a 5 year old, which he is clearly much taller and developed than? Because the official data puts him at around Meliodas' height, IIRC, so he comes across as at least a tween/younger teenager, from a more realistic perspective. I've seen uneducated 5 year olds pulling cr*p like that in public spaces, not the sniffing of course, but never kids older than 10, they know that even if they pull foolish stints, they are what they are and they shouldn't get caught.
Are you trying here to prove that Percival made a mistake? I know this already and no one says otherwise
But this still does not justify Isolde's actions
We don't blow up kids/Teenagers because they bumped into us in the street

If you really want to discuss intelligence in characters and what evidence we have of it, either limit your criticism to what we know already in the anime, or take it back to the manga threads.
I'm not the one who started talking about manga here, it was you
You are the one who came to use what Lancelot did in the manga to defend Isolde's actions towards Percival (even when they were two completely different things)?
 

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
Are you trying here to prove that Percival made a mistake? I know this already and no one says otherwise
But this still does not justify Isolde's actions
We don't blow up kids/Teenagers because they bumped into us in the street
I'm pointing out that people do get aggressive( even physically so) and understandably so when unknown people old enough to normally know better sexually accost them. He didn't simply bump into her, he got under her skirt and sniffed her. It started out as an accident he should've avoided, he himself led it someplace else. They may have eliminated the scene where he owns to doing it in the anime, but the overall idea is that the whole incident between himself and Isolde could've been prevented/avoided by him, and he earned her reaction.

I'm not the one who started talking about manga here, it was you
You are the one who came to use what Lancelot did in the manga to defend Isolde's actions towards Percival (even when they were two completely different things)?
You made the general statement that she's got the lowest IQ of the main cast or something of the sort in you starting comment. After about one scene, where she was basically introduced in the anime. Never mind that in that scene she expressed her interest in Tristan, preserving her integrity, AND protecting Liones from the presumed "Chaos Knight" Chion claimed Percy to be. Three separate things you reduced to one and then further implied and suggested extended to her behaviour from that scene on. Which is not the case. You let us know that some things only explored in the manga so far coloured your bias against her. You even abused some serious manga spoilers to try and further your "opinion". But when I play the same game as you it's not alright? If you want to backpedal or step out of this conversation, at least maintain awareness of how you started this whole thing.
As for Isolde, it is no secret that she is not smart at all,
This is you opening the can of worms.
 

Redpercy

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
May 6, 2023
Messages
378
Reaction score
188
Age
22
Country
Morocco
I'm pointing out that people do get aggressive( even physically so) and understandably so when unknown people old enough to normally know better sexually accost them. He didn't simply bump into her, he got under her skirt and sniffed her. It started out as an accident he should've avoided, he himself led it someplace else. They may have eliminated the scene where he owns to doing it in the anime, but the overall idea is that the whole incident between himself and Isolde could've been prevented/avoided by him, and he earned her reaction.
I still don't see how this justifies her actions
If someone committing a mistake, that doesn't give you the right to make a bigger mistake
You are just trying to blame everything on Percival and gloss over Isolde's actions as if she didn't do anything wrong based on your personal bias.
Does bombing someone who is 16 (and looks much younger) because he bumped into you (even you felt his intentions were bad) seem right to you?

You made the general statement that she's got the lowest IQ of the main cast or something of the sort in you starting comment
No, I said she's not smart, and she's not smart
If your admiration for her prevents you from be objective and logical, then i don't share the same problems with you
I can't considered a character smart when it always uses his brain wrongly

where she was basically introduced in the anime. Never mind that in that scene she expressed her interest in Tristan, preserving her integrity, AND protecting Liones from the presumed "Chaos Knight" Chion claimed Percy to be
If she is going to blow up or kill any group that Chion tells her are Chaos Knights without confirming or without the slightest doubt, then she is really not smart.
Even Jade (Chion's best friend) showed great skepticism about Chion words and he didn't intervene until he saw the angry Isolde clashing with them to support her

You let us know that some things only explored in the manga so far coloured your bias against her. You even abused some serious manga spoilers to try and further your "opinion". But when I play the same game as you it's not alright?
You claimed that what happened was not enough to judge Isolde IQ, and i reminded you of the truth that i, you, and everyone who has read the manga know (without big spoilers) that the current Isolde is no different from the manga and still doesn't show any kind of intelligence
But then you trying to connect Isolde's lack of reasoning and reasoning most of the time to the fact that others showed some kind of strong emotions in the manga to generalize "everyone makes mistakes."

If you want to backpedal or step out of this conversation, at least maintain awareness of how you started this whole thing.
I'm not trying to back away from this conversation or get out of it
I'm not the person here trying to show that one of my favorite characters is smart, even when most of her situations are stupid or hasty.
It's you who is trying to do this

This is you opening the can of worms.
Sorry if you don't like the truth, but it's the truth
 

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
I still don't see how this justifies her actions
If someone committing a mistake, that doesn't give you the right to make a bigger mistake
You are just trying to blame everything on Percival and gloss over Isolde's actions as if she didn't do anything wrong based on your personal bias.
Does bombing someone who is 16 (and looks much younger) because he bumped into you (even you felt his intentions were bad) seem right to you?
If you don't see how that justifies her actions, then that's a you problem. He didn't bump into her, he got under he skirt, a feat for someone only 45 cm shorter, and started sniffing her. Just because you childishly close your eyes and ears at that, it won't make the event go away or differently. As someone who reads the manga, you would know that is a canon fact, not a misinterpretation, not a misrepresentation. That's how Percival's characterisation goes. As someone who reads the manga, you would also know Percival admitted to doing exactly that to Anne, earning himself a beating from her as well.
I'm not blaming everything on Percival, I'm blaming his willful disregard for societal rules and perverted antics for her outrage at a form of sexual assault he actually committed, and Chion's disloyalty and much more pregnant lack of reason and intelligence for the eventual showdown
. Did she do something foolish in not questioning Chion for a second? Yes. Was her reason clouded by rage, much like Lancelot's against Mortlach, who had already been neutralised and only talked smack at Percival and co any more?! Yes. If one is foolish in one action, so is the other, if one is fair in one action, so is the other. You simply need to make up your mind on which version you choose.
She warned, Percival ignored, even after his careless running around already caused damage once, earned himself her rage, he thus drew Chion's attention and the little jerkface blew things out of proportion. The male characters did far stupider things in that episode and those are the canon objective facts.
No, I said she's not smart, and she's not smart
If your admiration for her prevents you from be objective and logical, then i don't share the same problems with you
I can't considered a character smart when it always uses his brain wrongly
You said it's no secret she's not smart( based on one scene from the anime where she was entitled to feel rage, and then got manipulated over), and in one comeback to me, even insisted that she's the least intelligent of the group, without objectively supporting it, but instead by cherry picking the part where her romantic interest in Tristan makes her prioritise him. I responded to you by pointing out how, in spite of Meragaland challenging her over Tristan's safety, and in spite of Isolde's( just like the rest of the Platoon) main task being protecting Tristan, cause she only learned that Percival was a KotA during that battle or afterwards(however, that doesn't change the fact that her job is protect Tristan first, worry about others second), she made sure to first save Percival. She ignored her personal upset with him, and she saved him too, just as she was making her statement to Meragaland. She showed quick enough thinking on her feet to adjust to what she could do even for a nasty little pervert(from her perspective) who offended her and didn't apologise. So do yourself a favour and speak of objective and logical assessments once you stop ignoring events from the story in order to make your headcanon work.
If she is going to blow up or kill any group that Chion tells her are Chaos Knights without confirming or without the slightest doubt, then she is really not smart.
Even Jade (Chion's best friend) showed great skepticism about Chion words and he didn't intervene until he saw the angry Isolde clashing with them to support her
That was an isolated event, what sort of nonsense are you even bringing up? Why would I take hyperbolisations of isolated events as proof of her level of intelligence?! You already said once that she tends to be manipulated, and I let you off once for that, but since you insist, I'd like to remind you that was the only time she was ever manipulated. It hasn't happened since. So give me something serious if yu want to objectively argue. Cause bullying over her looks corroding her confidence doesn't say much about her overall level of intelligence, it only says that there's a limit to what she can emotionally handle and she's lacking in social experience on romantic issues, just like Lancelot who would argue that Jericho kissing him on the forehead is experience with kissing, or Tristan mistaking all the small or grand (romantic) gestures he takes the initiative for with her as treating her as a comrade(yeah, right), like Nasiens calling Percy their guinea pig or friend when apparently holding romantic feelings for him, just like Gawain presuming that sweet talking someone is all you need to get them interested in you., and I could go on.
You claimed that what happened was not enough to judge Isolde IQ, and i reminded you of the truth that i, you, and everyone who has read the manga know (without big spoilers) that the current Isolde is no different from the manga and still doesn't show any kind of intelligence
But then you trying to connect Isolde's lack of reasoning and reasoning most of the time to the fact that others showed some kind of strong emotions in the manga to generalize "everyone makes mistakes."
And it's not enough to judge her level of intelligence, I haven't seen her, or anyone in the whole damn series, taking one test or challenge to verify their overall intelligence(we can only gradually read and understand them as we go through the story...with them), not to mention that she's got very little screen time overall, which is the reasonable argument for which some people here don't care much about her. To which some of them add lack of interest in characters who show romantic interest, because they mislike how Nakaba develops that. There's a strong lack of scenes for her, period, and in those she does appear, she does prove to have and adequate level of intelligence, she's not a mind reader, so of course, she won't guess what people don't tell her at all, nor is her magical ability meant for detecting lies.
Please stop throwing "truth" around, it's not that empty of a concept to abuse it as you like just because others won't join you in your biases. You started off with "opinion", you failed to support that and now you go for stronger terms to what? Hide the fact that you lack those objective arguments?! You do understand that someone not smart would fail to develop teamwork and cohesion in action/skills for combos? That someone stupid or not smart would not develop skills that take strategic planting to then be triggered off?!
Yes, each of the teenagers here makes mistakes, and some of them make bigger mistakes than what we've seen from her. They go hand in hand with how smartly or not they apply logic, adaptability(the main descriptor of intelligent creatures) and experience to their decision making. So far, the top idiots in the series are ironically Percival and Chion. followed by Donny, Tristan, Isolde=Anne(she's the one who failed to teach Percy some manners as she realised he would repeat the pervy antics in public, cause he kept pulling them on her and she was annoyed too) and then Lance, Gawain and Nassie giving us some bright moments of pettiness or foolishness of their own. Jade would be right there with them if he survived Wallnack. That's how you assess them by events actually happening in the story. Note that I find Tristan more foolish than Isolde, Anne and Lancelot, in spite of liking him more than any of the 3. I love Percy's huge heart, I also don't approve of it working with a peasized brain, that only learns magic...common sense when?
I'm not trying to back away from this conversation or get out of it
I'm not the person here trying to show that one of my favorite characters is smart, even when most of her situations are stupid or hasty.
It's you who is trying to do this
Oh, so that's why you brought in the big words? The ones that don't prove anything? Idk, you seem awfully defensive of Percival and Lancelot, to the point that you ignore certain manga and anime facts, like how Lancelot actively pushes people away(even innocent ones, who haven't tried anything against him, or those who try to prioritise his wellbeing) to then get disappointed when only the most naive being in their likely universe is merely worried for his life, instead of in awe of his skill, ability and prowess(I'm referencing the situation in the Entangled Forest, after he killed the Talismans), or his pettiness in a recent episode where he twisted the knife into Tristan's embarrassment and issues with his father, at losing Gawain, while not having, just like Meliodas, the common decency to feel embarrassed himself at losing Percy(and Percy had been standing right behind him, and he managed to get into a commotion...as opposed to Gawain)...or Percy and Gawain(in Meliodas' case, Tristan had gotten her all the way into the castle, and asked her to wait, so she was in Meliodas' field)...yeah, that doesn't scream a smart approach of people you need or want as allies. And Percival's refusal to learn any common sense(after leaving the GoF and finally making some friends who have lived among some measure of society) is more of a shout out to lack of smarts than Isolde trusting Chion in wanting to protect Liones, which he does, he's just extremely stupid about the methods rn in the anime, or Isolde getting rightfully offended by someone who clearly looks like a teenager( he's 1.5 m tall, so, no that's not a small child, she would know, since she was also regularly small for a girl before puberty, and there are no known human-giant hybrids there) and clearly did some stuff that had earned him b*tchslaps from Anne before.
Sorry if you don't like the truth, but it's the truth
You haven't proven it to be the truth...so what gives?
 
Last edited:

Redpercy

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
May 6, 2023
Messages
378
Reaction score
188
Age
22
Country
Morocco
Undina
You are still going around in circles and trying to get off topic with your huge articles
I'm talking about Isolde's stupid and exaggerated reaction, while you evade and talk about Percival making a mistake even though we all know about it.
Percival's mistake never justifies Isolde's reaction
You say that I am biased in defending certain characters, but you are desperate to defend the fact that Isolde has the right to blow up and kill people and cause explosions in the center of the city because a child/teenager collided with her and she suspected that he had harassed her without even confirming or asking him.
I don't understand why you want to turn the tables on Percival and make him the fault of everything, but that's not what happened.
If it had been anyone with the simplest basics of thought and tact that Percival collided with instead of Isolde, the matter wouldn't have ended with massive explosions in the center of town and an attempt to castrate or kill Percival.

You haven't proven it to be the truth...so what gives?
It's simple
A character who does not show any signs of being smart = not smart
Isolde has not shown any signs of smart from the beginning of her appearance until now, so it is natural that I do not see her as intelligent.
I'm sorry, but i cannot see a person who tends to blow up things and people over the simplest things without questioning or clarifying as a smart person.

And no, it's not Chion's fault because Isolde started her rampage even before his instigation
Chion only exploited her to gain legitimacy for his attacks under the pretext that he was only supporting Isolde
If Isolde had chosen to use her brain at that time and realized that blowing people up was not the most appropriate option for situations like these, Chion wouldn't have found any justification for his attacks.
 

Yakkun

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,060
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Not NNT or 4KotA related but the sad passing of Akira Toriyama needs mentioning. Rest in peace, Legend. Without your works, certain fundamentals of the shounen genre wouldn't have been established and part of your legacy lives on in Nakaba's work as well.
 

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
@Undina
You are still going around in circles and trying to get off topic with your huge articles
I'm talking about Isolde's stupid and exaggerated reaction, while you evade and talk about Percival making a mistake even though we all know about it.
Percival's mistake never justifies Isolde's reaction
You say that I am biased in defending certain characters, but you are desperate to defend the fact that Isolde has the right to blow up and kill people and cause explosions in the center of the city because a child/teenager collided with her and she suspected that he had harassed her without even confirming or asking him.
I don't understand why you want to turn the tables on Percival and make him the fault of everything, but that's not what happened.
If it had been anyone with the simplest basics of thought and tact that Percival collided with instead of Isolde, the matter wouldn't have ended with massive explosions in the center of town and an attempt to castrate or kill Percival.
It's simple
A character who does not show any signs of being smart = not smart
Isolde has not shown any signs of smart from the beginning of her appearance until now, so it is natural that I do not see her as intelligent.
I'm sorry, but i cannot see a person who tends to blow up things and people over the simplest things without questioning or clarifying as a smart person.

And no, it's not Chion's fault because Isolde started her rampage even before his instigation
How about you actually read what I wrote instead of accusing me of "going in circles", as for evading, going off topic and spoilery in the anime section and backtracking as well, this is what you've been doing ever since I asked for evidence on her so called constant "not smart" actions and how are they worse than the stupid mistakes others have done. When we know other characters made worse choices implying lack of smarts. And I gave you examples of such events, for comparison's sake, which is not going off topic unless you don't know what that means, whereas you took her introductory scene and made it her whole personality, while also trying to paint as bad her worrying first for the people closest to her, and then for random strangers. And even there I gave you an example of her being wiser/smarter and putting aside her personal qualms to do her duty by Liones and the people of Britannia who need all the KotA, when she rescued Percival, even though she still resented him for his harrassment of her.

And this is where the true issue lies, you are willing to die on the hill where women/female characters have no right to take offense with SA( and if they do, they're not smart), even though all manga readers know he was the one to earn her ire, she had the right and duty to herself to punish him, cause no one else would stop his gropiness, and you ignore the fact that I specifically said that Chion "blew things out of proportion"(look it up if you don't know what that means). He is at fault for betraying her trust and escalating her anger. At some point you owned to that, but when I point out how others put their feet in their mouths, sometimes much worse than she does, you're backtracking in an attempt to downplay their actions. Isolde only wanted to punish Percival for being a nasty pervert who'd harrassed her, but Chion is smarter than her for trying to eliminate one of the key saviours of their world?!? Percival is smarter than her for running around like a headless chicken and behaving like an animal?!

You're not proving anything you're claiming to be the truth. So , please, stop coming back unless you're going to own to your strong bias.
 
Last edited:

Redpercy

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
May 6, 2023
Messages
378
Reaction score
188
Age
22
Country
Morocco
How about you actually read what I wrote instead of accusing me of "going in circles", as for evading, going off topic and spoilery in the anime section and backtracking as well, this is what you've been doing ever since I asked for evidence on her so called constant "not smart" actions and how are they worse than the stupid mistakes others have done. When we know other characters made worse choices implying lack of smarts. And I gave you examples of such events, for comparison's sake, which is not going off topic unless you don't know what that means, whereas you took her introductory scene and made it her whole personality, while also trying to paint as bad her worrying first for the people closest to her, and then for random strangers. And even there I gave you an example of her being wiser/smarter and putting aside her personal qualms to do her duty by Liones and the people of Britannia who need all the KotA, when she rescued Percival, even though she still resented him for his harrassment of her.

And this is where the true issue lies, you are willing to die on the hill where women/female characters have no right to take offense with SA( and if they do, they're not smart), even though all manga readers know he was the one to earn her ire, she had the right and duty to herself to punish him, cause no one else would stop his gropiness, and you ignore the fact that I specifically said that Chion "blew things out of proportion"(look it up if you don't know what that means). He is at fault for betraying her trust and escalating her anger. At some point you owned to that, but when I point out how others put their feet in their mouths, sometimes much worse than she does, you're backtracking in an attempt to downplay their actions. Isolde only wanted to punish Percival for being a nasty pervert who'd harrassed her, but Chion is smarter than her for trying to eliminate one of the key saviours of their world?!? Percival is smarter than her for running around like a headless chicken and behaving like an animal?!

You're not proving anything you're claiming to be the truth. So , please, stop coming back unless you're going to own to your strong bias.
You are still evading and repeating the points I talked about it previously, and yet I will repeat them

1 - I did not say that Isolde is a bad person, but rather I said that her actions are not characterized by intelligence, and therefore the safe impression of her currently is that she is an not smart character.
2 - Stop trying to portray what happened between Isolde and Percival as just a justified reaction of a girl who was harassed, because that is not what happened.
Isolde tried to blow up Percival's balls and caused explosions in the city center because she suspected that Percival who was 16 years old boy (and apparently he even looks much younger since Elva thought he was a little kid so she bathed with him, and he looks younger than Lancelot and Tristan in GoE, who were 14 years old at the time). arassed her without her even asking
3 - Saying that all manga readers agrees with you about Isolde being a victim indicates of Sa it totally wrong and most if not all of the fanbase were against Isolde's stupid actions.
For this one reason of many reasons why Isolde is one of the least popular characters in the show
In fact, you are the first person who is biased and tries to portray her as an innocent victim who has not committed any wrongdoing
4 - Isolde was determined to blow up Percival's balls and cause major explosions in the city even before Chion came, so saying that Chion caused what happened is meaningless.
5 - Chion intended his hostile actions towards Percival despite his knowledge of Percival’s identity, while Isolde was motivated by a lack of thinking and understanding, and this is the difference between their situations.
Chion himself is only smart when it comes to cunning and deception, but not in other things
6 - Isolde attack Chaos Meragalan was just carrying out her mission that she swore to as a Holy Knight, and if we follow your logic, this also means that Percival is much more mature and intelligent than her, recording that he saved more people than her even before he became a Holy Knight.
7 - Your statement that Percival, like an animal just because he shocking people is ridiculous because you made all this noise and defended Isolde, who blows people’s balls up because of a misunderstanding.
 
Last edited:

Undina

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
4,485
Country
Romania
1 - I did not say that Isolde is a bad person, but rather I said that her actions are not characterized by intelligence, and therefore the safe impression of her currently is that she is an not smart character.
You said she isn't smart, later that she's the least smart, and you failed to prove how that "opinion" is valid. Even more importantly, you failed to prove how she is less intelligent than characters who've made similar mistakes to hers or worse. It's why I keep reiterating things you keep ignoring, things from the actual series. Things that prove that Percival is the pervert and the harasser he himself openly admits to being in friggin' chapter 83.
2 - Stop trying to portray what happened between Isolde and Percival as just a justified reaction of a girl who was harassed, because that is not what happened.
Isolde tried to blow up Percival's balls and caused explosions in the city center because she suspected that Percival who was 16 years old boy (and apparently he even looks much younger since Elva thought he was a little kid so she bathed with him, and he looks younger than Lancelot and Tristan in GoE, who were 14 years old at the time).
Stop trying to tell women how to perceive or react to sexual harassment in a world where what he does is sexual harassment according to law voted in by both men and women. It makes you look not smart and something else that's not worth bringing up here. And it's the same thing in their fantasy world, Nakaba himself describes and portrays Meliodas and Percival's habits as such. Years ago when the first fanbooks came out, we had FKS clarify that Nakaba went for the actual word for "molestation" in describing Meliodas' gropiness of Elizabeth. The author himself is not shy about what and how he writes or draws certain things that annoy mostly the Western audience. And by Western I mean all nations and cultures that have laws acknowledging women's human rights. A lot of people here begrudgingly put up with those writing and drawing choices because the series does have qualities as well. Some of us try different ways of ignoring or laughing off his choices, but the vast majority has discussed at some point how he, in spite of acknowledging how naturally and normally his female characters are defensive against most male characters' advances, save for their RI(and most people here don't approve of that approach here too, there are still threads full of debates on it), he won't give up creating scenes where certain characters act like sex offenders, whom he openly describes as such.
Isolde is not only a girl who's been harassed, she's the in story equivalent to a law enforcer/enlisted military officer, with fighting training, as a HK. He did what in either world counts as messing around with someone in uniform and finding out. Isolde is not Elva, clearly, that's why, of the 2, one is a mere circus entertainer forgotten out in the boonies and the other an Emerald ranking Holy Knight of Liones at age 16, above what Guila or Jericho had achieved back when they were the same age. It doesn't take only brawn to reach that, or connections, even children of royalty in this have to prove they are worth certain positions. And you can't raise or develop your magic ability or skillset without learning or intelligence. It's that simple.
3 - Saying that all manga readers agrees with you about Isolde being a victim indicates of Sa it totally wrong and most if not all of the fanbase were against Isolde's stupid actions.
I didn't say that all manga readers agree with me, I said that all manga readers would know it. Different concepts. Because all of us have read the chapters where he persistently holds onto Anne's breasts instead of her waist while riding, or he has his hand in an inappropriate area of her body as they all sleep after the battles with Meragaland and Arthur...and, above all, we've all read chapter 83(or at least those who don't pop in or out for certain arcs), which you deny exists, where he admits that his main view of females at that point involved the physical attractive traits all animals, including humans, take into consideration. And only that. It got a bit more complex with Anne, but only slightly because he'd known her for a while, reason for which Nakaba gave us that lame excuse for perpetuating his habits, but only with Anne, which, in turn, gave her characterisation a low blow. However, all humans have intelligence and rules based on that that involve boundaries and not engaging in sniffing other people's nether region like dogs or other real life non-human species would. Do you randomly get under a girl's skirt, no matter how short or long and sniff her as soon as you meet her?!? Cause that would be worrying. Do you find that to be at the intelligence level of a regular, sane human to do?! Especially if said human is doing it to someone who is an armed and trained member of the military, out on patrol? Answer this, don't dodge it.
For this one reason of many reasons why Isolde is one of the least popular characters in the show
No, it's not. I was here when that situation was debated. She's not in the series much to begin with, having at this point only slightly more presence than Guinevere, and most people are not interested in her because she doesn't have an as interesting as Anne's magic power, or they prefer Gawain's brashness, physical design(big, muscly girl) and reminiscent of Escanor sass(and are even somewhat accepting of her own ecchi antics), even I have Anne ranking slightly higher in preference on account of her MA and in story presence, but lower on account of her attitude towards Percival in 83 and falling for Lancelot's ruse after the Ardd situation, most male characters or even undetermined Nasiens, have more interesting MAs than her, and some people dislike her because of some misconstrued belief that has already been disavowed, at least in action on page, that her interest in Tristan is unfounded, too aggressive( forgetting that getting very aggressively protective of one's LI is a staple of Nakaba writing this universe's ships) or one-sided, and thus it's merely a replica of Diane's attitude towards Mel early on in Taizai. We were all shown it's not, and at long last even Percy got the message, especially after he got Anne to play to his ridiculous tune.
4 - Isolde was determined to blow up Percival's balls and cause major explosions in the city even before Chion came, so saying that Chion caused what happened is meaningless.
She wasn't causing major explosions at all, at most she crumbled some pavement and a bit of wall(and while a jerkass, Chion was right that as soon as the fighting started, the civilians knew to get away, it's the norm in an universe plagued with wars and being constantly under threat from possessors of huge magical power, just like their defenders are too), which shows tremendous control of both her ire going into those blasts, nowhere near what Gilthunder and Guila, for example, risked doing to the capital or the Liones populace, in general, when it came to their personal interests back in Taizai. Let's not forget Mel's b*tchslapping whomever he could through buildings, like Gilthunder, Golgius, or Jude, etc. You're either forgetting that we're both reading and watching these series or already purposely writing fanfiction and I'm not interested in either takes. I can see your double standards and they don't convince me either. You're willing to die on the hill of "women have no rights cause they're stupid, inferior to men, even when men act like low animals towards them"...and, guess what, that isn't flying either. Even Nakaba knows it, and I bet he also knows about Boudicca/Boadicea too, given how he writes the warrior female's takes to male strangers thinking they can waltz in and act inappropriately to them. Tacitus, a male himself, belonging to the victorius Roman Empire, claims that one good reason for Boudicca's rebelion was the Romans' treatment of her and her daughters.
5 - Chion intended his hostile actions towards Percival despite his knowledge of Percival’s identity, while Isolde was motivated by a lack of thinking and understanding, and this is the difference between their situations.
Yes, what Chion did is a textbook example of not being smart, or having information readily available and intentionally doing stupid stuff with it, starting off from processing it. That is what's translated into not thinking information you've been exposed to through, and not understanding. It's the same thing Percival did, when he'd already toppled and hurt someone earlier the same day, so out of recent, practical experience, his carelessness in running around like that was bound to hurt others as well, or not noticing, out of the same experience, that girls, like Anne, don't like boys being grabby or sniffy(the dogs behave) or looking at them naked or at certain body parts that are normally covered( when standing at 1,95 m, while he's 1.50 m), and he looks every bit as mature as Tristan at 14, only fluffier, and people know in their kingdom that even the very adult father of her love interest looks like he could be Tristan's younger brother. For the last time, your attempt at making the "he looks like a child" excuse for Percival doesn't fly. It doesn't fly in story, it doesn't fly outside of it. And the only thing Isolde didn't know was that Percival's level of harassment of her didn't account for her losing her virginity, or sexual intercourse for that matter, each and any of those actions still being done(as far as Percival, or anyone other than Tristan, is concerned) without her consent. She only mistook the assessment of his level of assault, not his action for being anything other than assault. It started with bumping, he made sure, and later admitted to it, to be sexual harassment. This doesn't change. It's in the manga, one has to be completely delusional to deny it.
6 - Isolde attack Chaos Meragalan was just carrying out her mission that she swore to as a Holy Knight, and if we follow your logic, this also means that Percival is much more mature and intelligent than her, recording that he saved more people than her even before he became a Holy Knight.
Stop misconstruing what I said. With that I argued for her doing more and better than only thinking about Tristan and minimally Jade, as you claimed, and not for "you get n IQ points for how ever many people you rescue". I argued for her being wiser and smarter than either Chion and Percival, because her train of thought involves the wellbeing of her people, past her personal vendetta or ridiculous opinion that her or Chion's abilities were enough to prevent Tristan's having to fulfill the prophecy alongside all the other KotA. Chion thinks that he can protect Tristan of having to fight, Isolde knows the reality is that she can only support him with the best of her abilities. Percival prioritises his personal vendetta on Ironside and everything going on with Ironside...or Diodra(even letting Ironside's brother in law taunt him into abandoning his friends and potential RI, yeah, real smart, Percival/s), Chion prioritises his dumb opinion that Tristan wouldn't be saddled with even more responsibility or risks should any other KotA perish, He even fails to notice or take into consideration how Tristan feels about his responsibilities, his nature, or his wants, whereas the only thing Isolde's failed to notice so far is the fact that Tristan, and many others, find her beautiful and attractive, even with her height and impetuous temper, and sometimes exactly for it. Tristan simply hates seeing her hurt because of him...or rather his failing to protect her from that. Because he's gotta be a bit macho, after all, he's Meliodas' son.
7 - Your statement that Percival, like an animal just because he shocking people is ridiculous because you made all this noise and defended Isolde, who blows people’s balls up because of a misunderstanding.
So you mean to tell me that humans normally get to strangers' crotch levels and start sniffing them, enjoying that and they're still deemed "sane and harmless"?!? Wow, just...wow. Keep going, I'm about to grab some popcorn, haven't watched this type of comedy in a while...
 
Last edited:

Tristan

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
2,350
Reaction score
2,187
Country
Germany
I think Nakaba was inspired by Psyren's Ageha in crafting Meliodas' Darkness powers:



Ageha also used his power Melchsee to form a Vortex from spheres of Darkness ... just as Meliodas did again the DK:

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

In Psyren, they also had this unique power called Nova (ノヴァ, Nova) which is the final and hidden pisonic power, the fourth PSI, achieved from combining the three power PSI: Rise, Burst, and Trance; allowing one to transcend human limits, merging with their PSI, first discovered by Asuka Yoshina.

 
Last edited:

Yakkun

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,060
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Takes me back. Man, Psyren was so cool back then. Loved it. Shame it got discontinued.
 

Killerbee12

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
352
Reaction score
241
Age
34
Country
United States
Regardless of what anybody say, we don’t kno how strong meragaland is. Because he was one shotted by Tristan in demon mode. As for nanashi when he fought Lancelot, we all assume he was stronger than tarmiel and sariel, because of his attacks and him fighting Lancelot.

As for the chaos form, that sound like a cool idea. And I stick with it the 4 perils are special to Arthur. So they have to have a unique ability. Like the sins, had sacred treasures, commandments have commandments, archangels have grace.
Also, which series do u think is better sds or 4koa.My opinion overall 4koa

also, boruto is better than naruto,
 

Demonspeed

The Hero of the Trojan War
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Global Moderator
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
37,868
Reaction score
46,541
Gender
Male
Country
France
Regardless of what anybody say, we don’t kno how strong meragaland is. Because he was one shotted by Tristan in demon mode. As for nanashi when he fought Lancelot, we all assume he was stronger than tarmiel and sariel, because of his attacks and him fighting Lancelot.

As for the chaos form, that sound like a cool idea. And I stick with it the 4 perils are special to Arthur. So they have to have a unique ability. Like the sins, had sacred treasures, commandments have commandments, archangels have grace.
Also, which series do u think is better sds or 4koa.My opinion overall 4koa

also, boruto is better than naruto,
We don't need to assume anything, we have Nakaba's words.
 
Top