Discussion Ability Affinity with Armament Haki & Awakening

[HereNThere]

Re: Increased Volume and better Haki?

Smoker increasing his volume should make him a target to any Haki user as I though, but why Vergo uses the word better Haki user?

This could be more proof towards my theory on the first page, that a logia with sufficient haki mastery can keep their intangibility against those with haki weaker than their own.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Updated again, better layout and structure, so easier to understand.

 

[vegeta]

As far as I understand,Haki is just like transforming to super sayian in Dragon Ball Z which normally uses their energy, new Haki users needs to concentrate and use their Haki while the old Haki users like Rayleigh, shanks etc are so fluent with Haki that they usually have armours like 24*7 so when they want to face strong opponents they can just strength their Haki for example,when shanks stopped Akainu that sword was not coated with black color,so I guess It already had some Haki coated.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As far as I understand,Haki is just like transforming to super sayian in Dragon Ball Z which normally uses their energy, new Haki users needs to concentrate and use their Haki while the old Haki users like Rayleigh, shanks etc are so fluent with Haki that they usually have armours like 24*7 so when they want to face strong opponents they can just strength their Haki for example,when shanks stopped Akainu that sword was not coated with black color,so I guess It already had some Haki coated.

I don't think that's really the case except the Yonko just have a limitless haki capacity which I doubt.

We see things from the point of Luffy being that hes the protagonist, when he doesn't know what something is, we don't either; it's only after Rayleigh explained and taught him about haki that we the readers can then distinguish when haki is being used and we've seen that there are 2 forms of haki: one being invisible which is the basic armamnet while the black called hardening is the more advanced.

Sometimes we still see haki being used without the black coating which is known as hardening:

Spoiler: No Black Armament

So haki is used most of the time when top-class fighters fight and people from the New-World; we just have to assume when there's no black hardening haki, they're using the invisible application of armament.

During the war, they were probably using boith forms of haki, it depends on the intensity of the fight which we can then assume they probably made use of the hardening more often. We just couldn't tell which type since we didn't have a clue what haki was or how to even distinguish between the types of haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 3, 2015 ---

Thanks for the moves @ProGoddess

 

[Core D. Roy]

I think haki is intrinsically tied to awakening. When Doffy said "so, it's 'rubber' and 'armament', huh?", I took that to mean that awakening is the application of haki to a DF ability. I believe Doffy scoffed on Luffy's noobness because Doffy is capable of using 'conqueror+string', which has the effect of making the setting itself submit to the DF. In fact those strings may have even been 'armament' empowered as well, meaning that awakening could have many different possibilities dependent on the type/quality of haki used, ability of the DF, and the proficiency of the user at combining the two types of power.

People scoff at Luffy turning the environment into rubber, but there's more to it than just (hilariously) affecting the ground or buildings. If this guess is accurate, Luffy could combine 'conqueror+rubber' to give the air in front of him rubber properties, and basically turn himself into a bullet for a rubber rail gun. Or if he could turn other people into rubber temporarily... would be good for comedy if anything xD

Also, I wonder what a logia awakening should even be like. I imagine it results in duels like Ace/BB and Akainu/Aokiji.

 

[garabilagan]

I think that when doflamingo said awekening, he meant "ultimate". He mentioned that ope-ope nomi's ultimate is to grant someone immortality. So I'm guessing luffy's awekening would be his rubber's ability to stretch as much as he wants. And as I mentioned in the spoiler thread, I believe luffy would pull a goku-like thing(when he had that energy ball) and create gigantic fists(hardened w/ CoA) that he'll use eventually to destroy red line. Or it could be that he’ll inhale as much air as he needs to have gigantic fists that’ll be used to destroy red line. The impact is so massive as he has CoC. Luffy can also have an ultimate similar to monkey king of dota2 wherein he’ll create clones made up of rubber. Clones that’ll have same ability as luffy. Imagine 20 bouncemen who can use gattling king kong gun at the same time

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

This attribute of "Hardening" makes Armament Haki impossible to complement Devil fruit attacks that lack a solid-structure:

• Light based attacks :- Hardened Light? Light can't be hard.
• Fire based attacks :- Fire can't be hard, it's a gas.
• Smoke based attacks : - Smoke can't be hard, it's a gas.
• Mero Mero based attacks :- Mero Mero attacks are not solid.

Simply put, it only complements solid-structure beings, or objects; attacks based on magic or ethereal have no Armament utility.

Nice to see I was somewhat accurate here. Initially assumed all Logia were forced back to solidity when they used Armament Haki, but it seems it's just those that cannot take on solid forms. I guess Magma and Mochi can take on solid form since they're neither purely liquid or gas.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There are different translations of Joker's sentence, and most of them seem to indicate the "rarely" refers to the awakening, not the ability to affect the environment. If it is really as you say, then even Powermanga's translation is really bad worded, since it leads to confusion. Also, if it really was referring to the rarity on affecting the environment, so far from two non-zoan fruits we've seen awakened, two were affecting it (Doflamingo and Katakuri), it may be coincidence, but since we are constructing theories based on incomplete information, so far, logic suggest all non-zoan awakenings works affecting the environment.

Your English is perfect as far as I can tell, it's coherent and as good as any .

Powermanga's translation is fine and consistent with my interpretation for this reason:

It doesn't say "very rarely, an ability will awaken" and then end it with that as the full sentence, if it did, you'd be absolutely correct. It says "very rarely, an ability will awaken AND begin to affect things other than the users body"; "and" joins 2 separate or 2 clauses together. Look at the Impel Down Zoans, Awakened, but they do not affect their surroundings. Mangastream translation is the same, and the VIZ official translation implies the same thing too.

It's also an assumption to claim it incomplete without basis. More so when it's highly unlikely the only awakened DF users are Joker and Katakuri. Much more likely Whitebeard, Big Mom, Marco, and every formidable veteran Pirate out there with an ability is indeed awakened too.

1. How does an ability that already affect the surrounding affect the surrounding? Can't turn buildings into earthquakes, the idea doesn't seem plausible.
2. Turning things into one's power also isn't beneficial to all DF users as it does nothing to make the user stronger. Corazon's ability was to mute sound over a distance. How does turning things into muted sound make sense? or benefit the user? It doesn't.

We have few reasons to think Ace had awaken his fruit. He got his powers somewhere during the 3 years after he left Luffy, so he would have managed to get it in an extremely short lapse of time. All the known awaken fruits we've seen so far, seems to indicate the user had the fruit for a long period of time (Chopper, Katakuri, Joker), with exception of Impel Down's beast, who we don't know anything about. Some logia users who make more sense to have awakened his fruit, are Aokiji and Akainu, and they seem to have affected the environment of the whole Punk Hazard's island, which reinforces the "affecting the environment" theory.

Ace got his abilities within the first year, that's been revealed lately by Oda. Ace was at the top of the food-chain, that's something is greatly underrated. Chinjao believed he was the only one with the capability of becoming Pirate King after Whitebeard, and the only person Chinjao sees as a candidate now is Blackbeard due to the strength he's demonstrated; Sengoku also thought the same of Ace. Why is it that out of all the Super Rookies and Supernova, and even after 2 years of the death of Ace, the only real acknowledged person seen as a candidate to be Pirate King was Blackbeard? and the only person to have succeeded that prospect is Blackbeard, it speaks a lot about Ace's strength.

Also, it's another assumption, in fact a misconception that what Akainu and Aokiji did was evidence of Awakening, it wasn't.

Source: https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=94360&page=16

To summarise the above information, the reason Punk Hazard is half Lava and half Snow permanently is due to the conditions & Geography of Punk Hazard and the sea. It's not because of Awakening. If they'd fought in the desert, or some other location, this wouldn't be the case. Also, if Affecting the weather is what determines a Logia as awakened, then...

Ace must be awakened because he stopped snow from falling just by walking in a tundra based location. Usually, Aokiji's Ice would have melted and Akainu's Magma would have cooled down, but it's because of the geography in Punk Hazard. Even without Awakening, Magma would melt the surrounding area into Magma while Ice would freeze the surrounding area into Ice.

Having a DF for a long time also doesn't make one Awakened. It's how skilled/talented the user is. An Ability won' awaken just because you've had it for 20 years. Luffy has had his ability for 11 years, that doesn't mean he's awakened. Blackbeard has only had his Yami Yami no Mi for just over 2 years, wouldn't mean he was not awakened yet more so when it's based on mastery.

When an ability Awakens, it only emphasises or enhances what the fruit does, it doesn't change it or add a new power ability to it, it remains the same, it just becomes stronger.

If an ability allows the user to jump 10 miles in thear, Awakening may increase the range to 100 miles. It's not changing what the ability did, it's enhancing it.

While this isn't Canon and is a film, it talks about Awakening. It's the Film Gold. Gild Tesoro's ability was to telekinetically manipulate gold over an area. When he awakened, the range increased. Awakening didn't change his ability, it enhanced by increasing already present properties. It's consistent with the premise proposed.

These are early write ups that haven't been updated or worded to their best. I have updated versions, but will try to transfer them onto here too. All my iterations have been updated here: https://www.reddit.com/user/HPsyche/submitted#res:ner-page=2

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Whitebeard fruit:

• Baby Stage: the user becomes the epicenter of the quakes he generate.
• Awakened stage: ¨transform¨ any point of the environment into the epicenter of the quake. (Maybe that´s how he managed to create two Tsunamis coming on his direction.

Corazon´s fruit: similar to Whitebeard´s fruit.

• Baby Stage: create a muted radius with the user as the center.
• Awakened Stage: ¨transform¨ any point of the environment into the center of the muted radius.

It is not transforming things into quakes, or muted sounds, but the center of the thing generating them.

But you're just forcing abilities to affect surrounding besides the user when we know not all abilities do that even if they Awaken. This argument would only hold true if ALL awakenings affected surroundings and we have already observed the Impel Down Zoans do not which debunks the idea of all surroundings being the case with all abilities when awakened.

Ace is strong, I don´t doubt it. I also think Luffy is strong, and so far his fruit hasn´t awaken, being strong doesn´t equal Awakening.

No, the point I was making isn't about strength, I said mastery. Your point was that because of just a 3 year period being the case, it's unlikely and that can't really be validated. Mastery of an ability is based on talent. Point being made is Ace being as strong as he is, some things are only worth being reasonable assumptions. It's like saying that because we haven't seen Mihawk use Armament Haki, he's not a Haki user, but because of his standing, it's only reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt in many aspects as is the case with Ace.

And Abilities that allow the user to produce something by what's hinted implies that Awakening would increase the amount of what is produced. Ace has been able to an incredible amount.

In that case, if Ace is awakened and can change the location´s weather, wouldn´t it reinforce the ¨Affect the environment¨ theory?

Not really. Aokiji's Ice would freeze anything whether he's Awakened or not. Akainu's Magma will melt things into Lava whether Awakened or not. Fire will give off heat and affect things within the vicinity whether Awakened or not. It's not proof of Awakening. All that's showcasing is fundamental effect of the powers of nature.

I haven´t said that having the fruit for a long time gives you awakening automatically, but having it for a long time certainly enables you to control your fruit better and get it awakened. There may be exceptions of people who reach it faster, I give you the reason there.

It does, but it's not the requirement. What is it that Crocodile said?

Some people have abilities and are just satisfied for possessing it. Not everyone trains and improves their ability to control it. That's what Crocodile is saying here. So, you can have an ability for 20-30 years and not train it if you're ignorant. However, someone can see their ability can be much more functional, and make an effort to improve their mastery of their ability.

It's not about time, it's about talent in learning and mastering an ability. Time is only a factor in as much as the level of talent regarding how quickly they can develop their skills in order to awaken it.

I actually agree with this, I see a great chance of this becoming true, but you have to agree it is not a fact yet. That´s why I raise this questions, which if refuted, will improve the validity of your theory.

About Tesoro, I watched the movie and dont remember anyone mentioning awakening, but I may re-watch it just in case. As you say it is not canon, but I am sure Oda would not let them introduce things that goes agains the logic of OP world

The information regarding Tesoro awakening is not mentioned in the film, it's mentioned by Oda in a magazine. Check Wikia to confirm that. It's translated by Sandman who is one of the suppliers of information regarding One Piece from interviews and magazines.

And this was even made before the film was produced, and I doubt it's coincidence that it fits with the theory. At least, in the movie, my hypothesis is confirmed. This was also written before Katakuri, and with this as my basis, I would have been accurate about Katakuri. His awakening has allowed him to produce more Mochi to control to perform much bigger and elaborate attacks.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

For Zoans I can only guess It works different than for the rest. So far we know 5 confirmed Zoans users who have awakened, 6 if you include Chopper, and they all seem to work the same way.

1. Minotaurus
2. Minokoala
3. Minozebra
4. Minorhinozeros
5. Minochihuahua

Wouldn´t it make sense all Paramecia work the same too?

Joker never said "Paramecia" or "Logia", he said "Devil Fruits" which includes all the types. And he also said it's rare when abilities affect surroundings. Therefore, it's a fact that not ALL abilities will affect surrounding on.

It's not so much that Zoans work different, it's more to do with the fact that Zoans are limited to enhancing physical qualities.

Rather than looking at the sub-classes of DF, look at what it does. All Paramecia ability do not work the same way. A Paramecia ability can potentially function like a Logia, like a Zoan or as something completely different.

A Zoan ability literally just increases the strength or physical qualities of the user; a Paramecia could do the same thing without turning the user into a beast of any kind or some creature that's mythical. Point is it just increases physical attributes, therefore, Awakening would just enhance that enhancement. If strength is 10 from consuming a Zoan, it might jump to 20 or 30 from Awakening.

Joker's ability creates strings for the user to manipulate, therefore, it allows the user to use the surroundings as a source of strings to perform much more elaborate attacks; I didn't need to see Katakuri using Mochi, I knew he was going to be able to produce a lot of Mochi to perform much more elaborate attacks. Anyone who read this would have come to that conclusion. The only thing uncertain is whether it was going to use the surroundings, but it does. Therefore, it's very likely it's only Paramecia that produce things to manipulate that will change their surroundings.

Awakening enhances a property of an ability, it doesn't change the ability. Gild Tesoro could control gold over a range, and that range increased on Awakening; the property of Tesoro's ability that was enhanced was the range. Someone like Kid is similar to Tesoro - He can telekinetically control metals over a certain area, and by Awakening, the range at which he can control metal would be greater meaning his attacks would potentially be much more grandiose should he have access to a great amount of metal.

Abou Tesoro, I´ve been trying to find the related Oda´s statement, but haven´t found anything. However, it is true that Tesoro´s awakening is all over the wikia, so I am not sure now.

Here: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43064&page=66&p=3675965&viewfull=1#post3675965 - it's in Spoiler.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I agree that not ALL, since Zoans are different. However, I think for the rest of the fruits both options are still possible for reasons mentioned above, and we simply dont have enough evidence to guarantee at 100% something is one way or another. The thing is, if awakenings are not standarized, for all we know luffy may have already awakened and he doesnt know.

Thanks for the link

Zoans are a type of Devil fruit. The Manga said Devil fruits, so how are they different?

Even if they were not even categorised as Logia, Paramecia or Zoan, the only thing that'd separate them is how they function.

The Manga has stated it:

1. Not all Awakenings affect surroundings.
2. It wasn't stated specific to any class as many assume.
3. It was in fact stated to be rare when it affects the surrounding - and thus far, only abilities that produce something have transmuted surrounding area into their DF power.

And all abilities thus far are consistent with what has been said.

• Zoans user get enhanced physique on consumption, this gets enhanced when awakened.
• Joker produces strings, and produces more when awakened.
• Katakurii produces Mochi, and produces more due to awakening.

My stance is 100% proven as of now unless as everything has been consistent as the Manga has showcased so far, it's even predicted how Awakening would affect an ability before the Film Gold was released which further solidifies my hypothesis. Only thing now is whether you can prove otherwise regarding the consistency of this, but nonetheless, was a good discussion.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2017 ---

@Rexynok

That link/source was inaccurate, he didn't reveal it on there but here (join the face and book on the link or it wont work OR read the quote below): https://www.f acebook.com/notes/one-piece-philippines-new-world/one-piece-film-gold-spoilers/10154275131833467/

Spoilers for “One Piece Film: GOLD” thanks to sandman of AP.
Be warned, this is a complete summary of the film. If you do not wish to be spoiled, then I suggest that you ignore this post.
.
.
.
Straw Hats are heading for Gran Tesoro to earn much money in casino since they have NO money. They are glad that around Gran Tesoro, so much golden powder is floating in the air. Nami tells them to collect all of the golden powder.
Shortly after they arrive in Gran Tesoro, Baccarat welcomes them as a concierge. She shows them around Gran Tesoro via Turtles-Royce. This car's motive force is "muscle turtles". Baccarat lends them 20-30 million berry. Luffy, Usopp and Chopper are gladly starts Turtle Race. During the race, Vice Admiral Chaton is playing golf and sees Luffy and co with a surprised face. Luffy and co manage to win the race, which allows them to earn 200-300 million berry. Nami is hyped at it. Tesoro hears from Mr. Tanaka that Straw Hats arrived in Gran Tesoro. He already knew Luffy defeated Doflamingo and shows a audacious smile.
Baccarat invites Straw Hats to VIP room, where people enjoy dice games. Vice Admiral Momousagi makes an appearance as cameo. In Gran Tesoro, Marine and pirates are supposed not to fight each other. The atmosphere of VIP room is similar to the traditional Edo-Era Japanese casino as opposed to the casino in general.
Luffy recklessly starts a dice game. Nami is worried about it since the bet rate is very high, but Luffy wins. Nami believes Luffy is a very lucky person today. Then, Tesoro appears and offers a gambling to Luffy. Luffy accepts it. Suddenly Baccarat takes off her glove and touches Luffy from behind. Both Robin and Nami are cautious about it and try to stop Luffy. But Luffy has already started a dice game and lost. Straw Hats complain about it, but Tesoro says those who get fooled are to blame.

Tesoro laughs and tells Straw Hats to pay him more than 300 million berry. Straw Hats reject it and provoke him that if he wants money from them, why not taking money by force. Zoro rushes toward Tesoro, but immediately gets captured. Actually the golden powder around Gran Tesoro seeps into people's skin, which enables Tesoro to control people with ease. Tesoro is an awakened DF user. He ate Goru Goru fruit (Gold Gold). He says that nobody can defeat him as long as he is on Gran Tesoro.

Straw Hats realize that they can't win against Tesoro at present and tell him that they will pay money that is necessary in order to release Zoro from custody. Tesoro says if they can't pay enough money by AM0:00, he will make a public execution of Zoro.
Despite Zoro being captured, Luffy claims he is hungry and they decide to have dinner. Carina in another outfit meets Nami. They have stolen purses from each other when they met. They have known each other ever since Nami was a thief in East Blue. Carina has secretly stolen the key of a room where 50 billion berry is hidden. Straw Hats and Carina decide to steal it from Tesoro. Nami claims that she will take 70% of the money, but Carina disagrees.
Scene changes to Marine HQ. Lucci is arrogantly orders Akainu to dispatch 10 warships to Gran Tesoro. Lucci says, "Shut the fuck up. All you have to do is to dispatch warships for us." Akaiu is pissed off and says, "How dare you speak to me with such a saucy attitude ." According to their conversation, Tesoro used to be a pirate.
Scene changes to Straw Hats. Spy action film starts here. Luffy and Franky intend to clamber up the outer wall of the 8-stars-hotel, while others intend to go straight to the room where 50 billion berry are hidden.
Nami and co manage to escape from the infrared sensors from owl-like creatures. Brook touches the sensors by accident, but the sensors don't react him since he is a skeleton rather than creature...
Luffy and Franky succeed in invading the center controlling room, but a security guard notices Luffy. Mr. Tanaka seems like a bit surprised at their invasion. Luffy's face is immediately broadcasted on many screens in Gran Tesoro. Nami and co are surprised at it.
Tesoro and Mr. Tanaka (or Baccarat) appears in front of Luffy and Franky. Luffy and Franky intend to escape, but Franky gets penetrated by a golden tentacle. Luffy rushes toward Tesoro, but he is easily defeated. Before Luffy attacks him, Luffy says, "I don't need money. Just return Zoro!" Tesoro is pissed off, saying, "You don't need money!!?"
His short flashback begins when he was young. He was poor and aspired for money. Tesoro used to be a slave of Celestial Dragons. His girlfriend named Stella seems to have been taken away by Celestial Dragons.
Tesoro makes Luffy and Franky fall into the basement. In the basement, there are many people who were forced to fall into as well. They ask Luffy if he has water or food. It is ironic that there are numerous golden ornaments around them, who were aspiring for wealth. Luffy tries finding an evacuation route, but Raise Max, a legendary gambler and a member of Revolutionary Army, tells Luffy to give up. Max also lost in gambling.
According to the people in the basement, they need to visit a pump room and bring seawater into Gran Tesoro to weaken Tesoro's power. They can wash away the golden powder on their skin with seawater, which allows them to be free from Tesoro's control. However, it is pretty dangerous due to many Golden Bats.
Luffy easily defeats those bats, but he is unable to go to the pump room due to a quickly rotating fan. Raise Max and other people make a resolution and manage to stop the fan. Luffy and Franky succeeds in invading the pump room. Suddenly, Tesoro shuts them up in the room and intends to drown them.
In the meantime, Nami and co disguise themselves as Celestial Dragon and co to invade into the room where 50 billion berry are hidden. When they opened the door of the room, Tesoro, instead of money, is waiting for them. The place is called amusement center in the sky. Zoro is constrained on a golden pillar.
Nami thinks Carina betrayed her. Carina says those who get fooled are to blame. According to Tesoro, many pirates tried to steal his money just like Straw Hats, but all of them failed.
When Tesoro is about to execute Zoro, suddenly all lights on Gran Tesoro go out. Actually it is Carina's trap to Tesoro. After that, a flood of seawater spouts from almost everywhere on Gran Tesoro, which allows Zoro to get released from custody. Luffy and Franky also appear on the amusement center.
Tesoro seems embarrassed. Zoro says to him, "Now that your hope has turned into despair, how do you feel about it!?" Tesoro gets enraged and turns himself into a giant God form, which is called Golden Tesoro in the setting illustration. He also gives a golden armour to Dice, Baccarat and Mr. Tanaka. Golden Tesoro goes on a rampage and destroys many buildings.
Meanwhile on the sea, Lucci and Marines arrives. Lucci is worried that Tesoro's rampage might destroy the ship carrying a huge amount of money which is supposed to be given to Celestial Dragons. Lucci orders Marines to fire at Tesoro even if it causes innocent citizens' victims. After fired by Marines, Tesoro makes a counterattack on them.
Sabo appears in front of Lucci. Sabo says he can't overlook it. Lucci asks him if it is his justice. Sabo denies and says, "It is for freedom." Lucci turns into Human-Beast mode and attacks Sabo, who is releasing Mera Mera DF ability.
Scene changes to Luffy. Luffy attacks Golden Tesoro through Grizzly Magnum and such. Tesoro says, "Wow, this IS the power whose bounty is 500 million berry!" , but it seems he still has a room in his mind. Luffy turns into Gear 4 mode and gives him Kong Gun, which makes Tesoro fall down.
Meanwhile, Zoro is fighting Dice. Zoro attacks him with Mutoryu Tatsu Maki and Santoryu Ul-Tora-Gari. But Dice feels good since he is a masochist. He can use CoA blackening. He attacks Zoro with Zoro's sword, but Zoro suffers no damage due to CoA blackening arm. Finally Zoro gives him Shi-Shishi- Sonson, which completely defeats Dice. Dice faints, but he shows an ecstasy face drooling from his mouth.
Mr. Tanaka points a gun at Robin. She knows the fact that he can't move freely in inorganic substance. Robin wraps him up with her giant hand which is made of her DF. Sanji gives him a finish blow, who can't even move.
Nami, Chopper and Usopp have difficulty in fighting Baccarat, whose coins cause many unlucky situations for them due to her DF ability. Usopp tries to snipe her. She says he can't hurt her due to her "good fortune". As opposed to her expectation, Usopp succeeds in sniping and defeats her. In fact, when Baccarat throws a coin, it is drawn into a slot machine covered with Pop Green. The slot machine hit the jackpot (7777) due to her DF, which is why she has already run out of her good fortune before avoiding snipe.
Scene changes to Luffy. Spandam throws a sea stone chain from behind Luffy. Spandam says, "Long time no see after Enies Lobby. Now is the time to revenge you, Straw Hat!" When Spandam is about to slash Luffy with Funkfreed, a kid has a courage to prevent him. Many people in the basement rise in revolt, which surprises Spandam.
Scene changes to Tesoro. Golden Tesoro tries to execute Carina as a traitor, but Nami saves her.　Nami recalls Carina saved her from a pirate named Mad Treasure when she was in East Blue. Tesoro tries to crush Nami in his giant hand. Tesoro says, "Become enraged, Straw Hat! Everything you tried to protect will be swallowed up by my power!!" Luffy yells, "You're exactly the kind of people I hate most!!", which surprises Tesoro so much since he stated the same thing toward Celestial Dragons (probably) in his youth. Luffy gives Tesoro Gear 4 "Gom Gom no Tiger Rex Magnum" and defeats him, which somehow reminds Tesoro of Stella's word, "I have been so happy."
Scene changes to the warship on the sea. Sabo and Lucci stops fighting. Both of them seem like unharmed. Fainted Tesoro falls onto the warship. Lucci orders Marines to conduct him away.
According to Carina, Gran Tesoro will explode in 30 seconds or so. Carina intends to pilot the ship as far as possible so that nobody gets involved in the explosion. Nami tries to persuade her, but Franky stops. When the countdown indicates 0, a large amount of fireworks go up all at once instead of explosion of the ship. In short, Carina succeeds in stealing the whole Gran Tesoro.
On Thousand Sunny, Nami finds a letter from Carina in her clothes, which says, "Girls should be smart, right? Haha!"
End of summary. Thank you for reading.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

3. As mentioned before, you are making assumptions. The "rarely" can be interpreted in both ways, referring to awakening in general, or refering to affect the environment.

It can't. Grammatically, it can't be interpreted both ways, but 1 way. That much is a fact. You can ask any grammarian, and you'd be told the exact same thing. Any argument bounced off, or following from a false premise to begin with is by default, a faulty premise and one that will lead to an inaccurate conclusion, and unequivocally so.
It would be like starting off a premise like this..."the + symbol means subtraction, therefore... 2+2=0". Once your premise is wrong, your conclusions are inherently unreliable and wrong too.

For one, Awakening in itself is not rare, more so if even the Impel Zoans can achieve it. What's rare is when it affects surroundings.

You're having to make exceptions for Zoans as if they're not classed as Devil fruits (and Joker said Devil fruits, not Paramecia fruits) which already shows the lack of consistency within your idea. The Impel Down Zoans didn't affect surroundings, therefore, the idea all Awakenings affect surroundings is moot. And more so, the basis of your premise in claiming that Joker's statement can be interpreted both ways is also wrong, therefore, everything else following with that notion is also false.

If you read it properly and understood it properly, it's rather simple what Joker is saying. He said it rare that powers awaken AND affect objects aside from the wielder. It means that Awakening is only rare when it's doing 2 things being Awakening & affecting other than the user, also meaning, Awakening usually only affects the user, those are not rare which fits in with the DFs that enhance the body or DFs like Tesoro's. Not all DFs produce innumerable quantities of something like Joker/Katakuri for one to control.

I am not rejecting your theory, I just want to make clear that so far they are no more than theories, since current evidence can be interpreted in both ways, and both ways adhere to logic.

Not really, and just because it's a theory doesn't mean it's not at this point correct. Any form of deduction can also be called a theory, but when it explains everything, it's far more likely to be true. So while you can claim this a theory, the fact is it proves everything regarding all the Awakenings and it was good enough to even predict the Awakening of Katakuri & Tesoro long before they were introduced.

It's like looking at a person with a burn and saying "I theories this person has been burnt by fire", even if it's a theory, the fact is it explains what is observed, therefore, yes, it might be a theory but it's a very highly functional one and extremely probable one with very little basis for dismissal.

The theory of evolution is called a theory too, but it's a theory that has stood the test of scrutiny to the point it's considered a fact. In fact, they don't really call it a theory in the sense that the word is generally used. While it's a theory, it's the basis for genetic engineering and many other fields of science as it's proven reliable and undisputed.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

¨It is very rare, but some powers can awaken and affect objects aside from its wielder¨
¨It is very rare, but some people can fly and travel through the skies¨
¨It is very rare, but sometimes the moon blocks the sun, and everything goes dark¨
¨It is very rare, but sometimes I get seizures and need to go to the hospital¨

All this sentences indicate that the rare event is included in the first clause, the second clause after AND is a consequence from the rare event.

Actually, your examples are flawed and you actually misunderstand 2 of your sentences. The second event is not certain to follow the first event. As one of your example doesn't follow the pattern, it's flawed; your 2 other examples follow the pattern, but you misunderstand it ironically.

This says "it's very rare, but some powers can awaken AND affect aside from the wielder":

1. First event: An ability can Awakening.
2. Second event: Affect objects aside from the wielder is a possibility, not a certainty.

An ability can awaken and affect objects aside from the wielder, and an ability can awaken and not affect things aside from the user. The second event is not certain to accompany the first event. There are 2 dimensions to the sentence.Your reasoning is clearly erroneous since we've already seen Awakenings that do not affect anything, but the user. The first event which is Awakening isn't rare, it affecting the surroundings after Awakening that is rare.

Your second examples is not at all similar to the original sentence. You said "it's very rare, but sometimes, the moon blocks the sun, and everything goes dark":

1. First event: The moon can block the sun.

Error with this example is, anytime the moon blocks the sun, it will go dark unquestionably...everytime. There's no instance where the moon blocks the sun, and there won't be darkness. The second event will ALWAYS accompany the first event. There's no uncertain event following from the first event like there is in the original example. This is a 1 dimensional statement.

Your second examples is similar to the original sentence. You said "it's very rare, but some people can fly and travel through the skies":

1. First event: People can fly.
2. Second event: Travelling through the skies is a possibility, not a certainty.

People can fly & also travel through the skies and people can fly and not travel through the skies. The second event is not certain to accompany the first event. There's 2 dimensions to this statement; It implies people are just able to fly, but it's rare when they have the skill to use flight as a means to travel to the sky. The flying isn't rare, but the ability to travel through the skies that is a rare event.

Your third examples is similar to the original sentence. You said "it's very rare, but sometimes I get seizures and need to go to the hospital":

1. First event You get seizues.
2. Second event: Going to the hospital is a possibility, not a certainty.

You get seizures and go to the hospital and you get seizures and don't need to go to the hospital. The second event is not certain to accompany the first event. There's 2 dimensions to this statement; It implies sometimes the seizures are not so severe you need to go the hospital, and sometimes it is severe enough that you need to go to the hospital, that's the rare event (the second event), the seizure (the first event) isn't.

I see the logic behind your theory, but I can also see some reasons that make me question it.

• All Zoans Awakening looks similar, including chopper´s, whose fruit abilities (increment of intelligence) are different from other Zoans.
• The only two non-Zoan awakenings that we have confirmed, have basically the same effect. Assuming Doflamingo´s statement is meant to say an awakening rarely allows you affect the environment, so far 2 out of 2 can do it.

Yes, and they're abilities that produce and allow the manipulation of substances. The Zoans do not produce or manipulate anything.

As I said, the emphasis on class is irrelevant. It's what the ability does that matters.

1. If an ability increases your strength and power originally, Awakening will enhance that further. This only becomes Zoan ability if it does so in the form of a beast and Parameica if that's not the case.
2. If an ability allows you to produce something to manipulate, Awakening will enhance that further.

Luffy: The ground became Mochi!! Is that thing Doflamingo did?
Katakuri: Of course, my powers are awakened.
Luffy mentions the floor being transformed into Mochi, and Katakuri inmediately states being awakened as a good enough explanation. If affecting the environment would be that uncommon even among Awakenings, that wouldn´t be enough of an explanation. It would be like if fighting Marco someone says: ¨oh, you can regenerate inmediately from any injure?¨ and he answers: ¨Of couse, I am a Zoan¨. It isn´t a good enough explanation, since it is extremely rare even among Zoans.

You've made a mistake here. For one, Joker and Katakuri both produce something to manipulate by hands telekinetically. It's a given that they're going to have similar awakens.

• Give me 10 abilities that produce innumerable substances and are manipulated telekinetically besides the Ito Ito no Mi and Mochi Mochi no Mi.

The other mistake you've made is Marco's ability is to regenerate. It's like saying "oh, you can make biscuits". It's nothing to do with being rare, it's to do with what the ability does. Has nothing to do with Awakening.

About awakening not being rare because of Imple Down´s Zoans. You can see that even after passing out, they remain in their monster form, and were needed to be tamed in order to keep them in control. My theory is they are the result of Vegapùnks or someone else´s experiments on forcing awakening.

You have no proof or reliable hypothesis, so this really isn't a valid argument. Point is their Awakening doesn't affect surroundings, so your point is still moot in that regard.

Tesoro´s case is different. If he was indeed awakened, your theory would be completely validated. But since it is non-canon, and the awakening is not mentioned in the movie, I am a bit sceptic about it.

He is awakened, it's stated in a Magazine that Oda released. It's like saying that because the SBS information is not stated in Manga dialoguie, then the SBS is unreliable.

So far I´d say I am 80% convinced your theory is right. But It won´t satisfy me until we get further evidence. To be honest, I think Oda leaves some points a bit ambiguous on purpose, to be able to change anything any moment he wants, without us realizing if it goes against the established logic of One Piece or not.

Fair, but 80% is inaccurate. It's 100% accurate as it explains every Awakening we've seen thus far.

Even the Zoan's Awakening which you have no working hypothesis besides choosing to reject it for the sake of it and conjuring an explanation which you have 0 basis for or to prove, I have evidence from the Manga consistent with my piece.

As I said, Awakening increases a pre-existing quality of an ability:

• What does Crocodile say? He said the Zoan's greatest strengths are their toughness and recovery speed.

Exactly as I said and implied, Zoans just increase physical attributes. Awakening enhanced that feature of the Impel Down Zoans, thus the reason they have increased toughness and durability regardless of Vegapunk or not.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The point of those sentences is to proof that Doflamingo´s ¨rare¨can be interpreted in both ways yours and mine. At this moment we simply don´t know if affecting the environment is the only outcome for non-zoan Awakenings or not.

Your sentences ironically proved you wrong because you misunderstood them and for one, one of them wasn't even in the same format at all. Speak to an English grammarian, and you'd be told the same thing.

The statement is not complex, what you're essentially implying here is that a statement cannot have an absolute meaning, and that's simply not true. The only reason people say this is because they want to believe all Awakenings affect the surroundings when the sentence itself doesn't state that.

But what about Chopper´s intelligence?

That's a part of Chopper's ability. It has nothing to do with Awakening. Name me any other Zoan ability that has points?

1. Mr.3
2. Magellan
   
3. Charlotte Cracker
4. Charlotte Perospero
5. Charlotte Opera
6. Charlotte Gallete
7. Kalifa
8. Trebol
9. Bartolomeo
10. All logia?

Some of those are not quite clear if they can control it or not.

Joker and Katakuri produce something of innumerable quantities and can manipulate it in an animated fashion.

A huge portion of that list you provide do not. Some of the characters you mentioned there, you have no idea how their abilities really function, most of it is guess work out of uncertainty, therefore, it's a unreliable list.

Mr. 3 doesn't animate what he produces for example. They're rigid in structure. Not at all similar to how Katakuri or Joker's ability functions. Even Logia do not telekinetically control, they just shoot/project out their powers for the most part, they don't animate it like Joker does his strings or Katakuri his Mochi.

The only ones remotely fitting similar description as Joker and Katakuri is Perospero and Magellan and even then, they are not really controlled similarly. Cracker's ability is also not similar to Katakuri and Joker's. It can't be controlled the way Mochi and Strings are controlled.

There aren't many abilities that function exactly like Katakuri's and Jokers or share similar properties.

He says Toughness and Recovery Speed are the greatest strengths of AWAKENED Zoan Types, reinforcig the awakening per type of fruit theory (Paramecia, Zoan, Logia). See the case of Chopper, whose fruit main ability is the increment of intelligence, and remain the same or lower during awakening.

Again, this is not accurate.

How many Zoan abilities function exactly like Choppers? Do all Zoan abilities have points? No, Chopper's ability functions differently. The only thing is it's related to some sort of creature, therefore it's Zoan.

Most Zoan abilities only turn you into a creature and enhance your physical qualities, therefore, it's exactly as I said. Awakening enhances the existing qualities of an ability. For Zoans, the originally enhance physical qualities , therefore, the fact they're enhancing physical qualities are Crocodile stated proves my point.

Kaku's ability gave him the physical qualities of a Giraffe, therefore, Awakening would enhance already pre-existing qualities exactly as those in Impel Down. It's really the same linear trend.

Even if you compare Chopper's ability to other Zoans, it's completely different. It's like comparing Luffy's ability to Blueno simply because they're Paramecia. They might belong to the same class, it doesn't mean they function the exact same way.

Awakening isn't based on class, but on what the fruit does.

And it's just a fact, not every ability benefits from turning things into their power and some powers aren't a thing, but an effect.

 

[XXGenesis]

Excerpt on Haki & logia is