American Politics

[kkck]

You are right about the republican party, they are way more united than the democrats on the issue which makes them stronger, and as you aptly said deem even Joe as "progressive",

Um, when did I say joe was progressive? I certainly did not say or believe that.

 

[hokageji]

I am aware of that, i am speaking purely of the standpoint of a progressive who would like the US and the world to improve (for which lots of Trump's policies are not helpful).

Agreed

In my opinion, it is time for democrats to embrace their left wing. What moderate democrats tried since two elections didnt seem to work all that well and they DO have a left wing that inspires people, especially the young voters that grow in size.

The problem is democratic party from its inception has been a party for everyone... All the seasoned democratic politicians are the majority and have moderate views. For them to turn progressive will take time. Most of the left members associated are independents, and people like the squad are a minority, albeit a fastly growing one. If the Democrats embrace the left, it would mean to largely alienate their voter base, even possibly lose majority of their members creating a split which will result in never gaining a majority in the house or the senate...

I dont think their moderate politics is what's wrong with the democrats... At best, its lack of a leader. Its hard to beat an incumbent and if it weren't for the Coronavirus, Trump would've won with much better margins.. Obama was not a leftist, he was a moderate. But he managed to energize the youth, make them look up to him and managed to unite the people.

Um, when did I say joe was progressive? I certainly did not say or believe that.

No, you didn't... and i dont mean that... i mean the republicans will find Biden's stance as progressive or a better word for their thoughts would be socialist considering how they unite over their issues and attack on the opposition...

 

[shionoro]

The problem is democratic party from its inception has been a party for everyone... All the seasoned democratic politicians are the majority and have moderate views. For them to turn progressive will take time. Most of the left members associated are independents, and people like the squad are a minority, albeit a fastly growing one. If the Democrats embrace the left, it would mean to largely alienate their voter base, even possibly lose majority of their members creating a split which will result in never gaining a majority in the house or the senate...

I dont think their moderate politics is what's wrong with the democrats... At best, its lack of a leader. Its hard to beat an incumbent and if it weren't for the Coronavirus, Trump would've won with much better margins.. Obama was not a leftist, he was a moderate. But he managed to energize the youth, make them look up to him and managed to unite the people.

With 'embrace the left' i do not mean to just blindly take every policy from them. This is also about communication.
It can't be that Sanders campaigns tirelessly for Biden while Biden goes to the debate stage and distances himself from Sanders.

That doesn't work. At least not without someone like Trump on the other side. There are compromises to be found, but there needs to be someone who can prevent the bad blood between the two factions. Nancy Pelosi was not able to do that. That is why, in my opinion, she should go.

There are leftist policies that are viable if democrats do a good job communicating them. You do not necessarily alienate your moderate voters by going farther left if you put effort into communicating that you will look out for their interests.

Democrats will lose some donors if they go too hard after wealth. But on the other hand: Democrats swim in money right now. but that money wasnt able to net them the house seats they wanted. They can do with less money (partially mitigated by more small donations) but more enthusiasm.

 

[xi0]

When I say this, i mean from a longterm perspective. The Iraq war was a crime, but its casualties were confined to the middle east and the US suffered debt from it. That is one (horrible) thing.

But even tho the Iraq war put american leadership of the world into question, Bush didnt completely alienate the US from its allies and didnt leave a complete and dangerous power vacuum in the world by isolationist policies.
Bush was very unpopular by the end of his term, but even he didnt divide the country quite like Trump did.

Trump's effects might not be as flashy as a full blown war, but I think they are longer lasting and potentially far more dangerous. Even if Biden would be a very competent politician when it comes to foreign policy, he would have a hard time mending the lasting damage trump has done.
Even if he'd be a very competent domestic politician, he'd have a very hard time to mend the pieces Trump has left.
Obama didn't inherit quite the mess Trump made, from international politics over BLM protests to Covid.

There's plenty of long-term effects of the Iraq War though, the entire world has been dealing with them for 15+ years now. It was easy to not consider it because we were attacked and the turmoil didn't exist here.

I don't think minimizing Bush's war crimes in order to compare them to speculation over 4 years of Trump's is a solid position. Not that I disagree that it will reverberate for a long time whether he wins the election or not. He didn't create the animus in this country, he just emboldened it.

 

[M3J]

That is not about himself, that is about what moderate democrats and republicans want.
Biden is in the senate for decades. These people have very concrete ideas about what they can get through the senate and what they cant and what will have broad approval and what wont.
That can both be a blessing and a curse.

If the whole party would be for m4a and it would be a realistic possibility in his opinion, biden would definitely be for it.
Much like if all the democratic party would be for tougher law and order laws, he'd be for them, too.
Biden always made a point of being the most centrist democrat politician throughout the times.

M4A is very popular, actually, but Biden doesn't support it....

I am comparing biden as he is now to how parties in UK are now though. I mean, sure, he might adapt in the hypothetical of him switching but that is a bit besides the point. Add to that, biden is still by all accounts a extremely corporate democrat (a tag also very much applicable to the far left wing communist socialist kamala harris). maybe this is just me but to me it's a hard sell that you can be a centrist and also a corporate democrat....

Biden absolutely is not to the left of the american average. Big issues nowadays are healthcare, economy, taxes for the wealthy.... Biden opposes Medicare for all, has promised investors nothing would change from trump, increasing taxes on wealthier people.. His stand on climate change is entirely bland and personally I don't see how it's compatible with someone that believes it's a thing. Best case scenario he manages to push through and bring back the entirely lackluster measures obama implemented back in the day (and even if given the chance wouldn't go further than that).

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 5, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 5, 2020 ---

So.... has anyone seen any information about turnout in 2020? As far as I can tell turnout was higher than 2016 but not THAT much higher. Going by the associated press (though I am not sure if I am interpreting this right) the turnout seems.... just a bit higher than 2016.

I think the voter turnout this year has been at its highest? I know Biden broke the record of getting the most votes of all time.

All I can say is.

Everyone who doesn't support Trump will be very disappointed over the next 5 years.

When they wake up and realize they've been working for the wrong side.

Your pointless blabber aside, everyone who doesn't support Trump doesn't support him because they know how shitty he is, as a leader, man, businessman, and a mature, rational adult. I know you hate USA and all, but start thinking clearly for once, and you'll see how horrible Trump is. He took Obama's booming economy and ruined that, and he's caused a deep rift among people.

The only reason why Trump has that many votes is because of racists, people who are okay with racism and have been brainwashed into being pro-Trump, and people who think they'll make enough money to be affected by Biden's tax plan.

 

[shionoro]

There's plenty of long-term effects of the Iraq War though, the entire world has been dealing with them for 15+ years now. It was easy to not consider it because we were attacked and the turmoil didn't exist here.

I don't think minimizing Bush's war crimes in order to compare them to speculation over 4 years of Trump's is a solid position. Not that I disagree that it will reverberate for a long time whether he wins the election or not. He didn't create the animus in this country, he just emboldened it.

I am not trying to minimize bush's warcrimes, but there is context. I would say that the vietnam war was an even bigger mistake than the iraq war, yet i wouldnt say that any of the presidents in that time were more incompetent or dangerous than Trump (or Bush for that matter).

This isn't about single mistakes, no matter how big. This is about pulling america out of the international community (doing lasting damage), bringing more instability to quite many places of the world (including the middle east) and (via corona, but not only via corona) screwing the country over for years to come.

Bush didnt do that. Neither did Nixon, neither anyone I would remember. None left such a shattered country for their successor. You can claim that Trump had bigger challenges than many presidents, but it is the things he did without needing to do them that really screwed things up.

In my opinion, what trump already did (not what he still might do) is already more dangerous than anything Bush did in his time, whether patriot act or iraq war. It is not that visible right now, because there is no concrete war going on. But the american power vacuum and side-taking is bound to blow up.

 

[Sanity Check]

Ballot counters delay Trump's win results. Alaska still not recognized for Trump 2 days after he officially won the state.

Ballot counters accelerate Biden's win results to give him an advantage.

Nothing strange about this at all.

"Perfect 100% legit election with no abnormalities."

 

[kkck]

Maybe it would go more smoothly if trump hadn't sabotaged the USPS...

 

[Sanity Check]

USPS is a democrat controlled left wing institution BTW.

Just like unions, the CDC, UN, WHO, WTO, IMF, CBO, federal reserve et al.

Remember when they said Trump killed the CDC preventing them from fighting corona and it didn't work because Trump only fired 1 person from the CDC. History is repeating itself.

...

Trump haters 2016: russia rigged the elections so Trump would win.

Trump haters in 2020: its impossible to rig elections, Biden won.





All people need do is look at the media refusing to give Trump credit for winning alaska.

And they can have more evidence for the 2020 elections being rigged in 2 seconds, than Robert Mueller found for the 2016 elections being rigged in 2 years.

 

[hokageji]

So ATM,
Biden is leading in:
NV by 20k votes, 13% count pending
AZ b 39k. 10% pending
PA by 14k 2% pending
GA by 2k 1% pending
MI by 60k, 1% pending, not gonna change.


If he wins PA, its over.
If he wins Nevada and AZ, its over.

Trump has to win, all these states to win the eelction, except Michigan.

Question to all of you, why is it that this country doesn't use electronic voting machines? India's done it for years without any foulplay. Do your countries have EVM, or still have ballots?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2020 ---

Trump haters 2016: russia rigged the elections so Trump would win.

Specifically, Russia was accused of fake social media accounts, and ads that influenced the election. Nobody is accusing Russia of flying to the country and interchanging the labels.

Trump haters in 2020: its impossible to rig elections, Biden won.

How about Trump prove malpractice and then acts on it. Why would he ask to stop the count in PA, when he was leading in rural counties, and ask to continue in AZ, where he was lagging behind?

I guess sanity and facts are independent for you...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2020 ---

All people need do is look at the media refusing to give Trump credit for winning alaska.

Alaska has only 50% of the votes counted, and Trump is leading there by 45k. The reason media is not talking about Alaska is simply because they all know Trump is gonna win there and unlike PA and GA, its not a swing state or too close to call....

Nevada and AZ are both states you think Trump would win, and he's lagging.

 

[Sanity Check]

If he wins PA, its over.

Trump's 700,000 lead in PA guarantees he won the state.

Overcoming a deficit that large is impossible from a statistical and scientific perspective.

Alaska has only 50% of the votes counted, and Trump is leading there by 45k. The reason media is not talking about Alaska is simply because they all know Trump is gonna win there and unlike PA and GA, its not a swing state or too close to call....

If Biden won alaska it would have been called 3 days ago.

But you wouldn't know that.

All you know is what CNN tells you.



You're not allowed to think about these topics on your own.

You could injure yourself if you tried.

 

[xi0]

USPS is a democrat controlled left wing institution BTW.

Wth does "democrat controlled left wing institution" mean? And even if that's true, what does that have to do with it's ability to do it's job? I guess this is only relevant when an election is occurring?

But you wouldn't know that.

All you know is what CNN tells you.



You're not allowed to think about these topics on your own.

You could injure yourself if you tried.

You could literally say Breitbart instead of CNN here and it would apply to you. Have some self-awareness.

 

[hokageji]

Trump's 700,000 lead in PA guarantees he won the state.

Overcoming a deficit that large is impossible from a statistical and scientific perspective.

true... overcoming that large a lead is nearly impossible, but if only Trump had a lead there and only 5% of the votes were remaining.

you dont know how math works do you? Try math with random numbers, and then bring up an argument.

All you know is what CNN tells you.

Lol, CNN is the one channel i havent watched... I am only watching what's live on youtube, and thats Fox, ABC and CBS... BUt i mainly get the numbers from google which is publishing the numbers from the associated press..

Now try the same argument with this...

In addition, i rely on polifact, factcheck.org for my information. Something a person with "Check" in their username should be doing.

You're not allowed to think about these topics on your own.

You could injure yourself if you tried.

I am not a 12 year old to get offended by a 5 year old's comments..

 

[kkck]

USPS is a democrat controlled left wing institution BTW.

Just like unions, the CDC, UN, WHO, WTO, IMF, CBO, federal reserve et al.

Remember when they said Trump killed the CDC preventing them from fighting corona and it didn't work because Trump only fired 1 person from the CDC. History is repeating itself.

...

Trump haters 2016: russia rigged the elections so Trump would win.

Trump haters in 2020: its impossible to rig elections, Biden won.





All people need do is look at the media refusing to give Trump credit for winning alaska.

And they can have more evidence for the 2020 elections being rigged in 2 seconds, than Robert Mueller found for the 2016 elections being rigged in 2 years.

That's just factually incorrect. The postmaster general is literally a trump donor. The USPS can't be both a democrat institution and also lead by a trump donor. That's not a thing.

No one said russia rigged the election... What is a fact is that russia used whatever means it could to influence the election via a number of means, many of which the trump campaign welcomed with open arms (and continued to do since). And... clearly the 2020 hasn't been rigged. Trump just lost.

 

[M3J]

Personally, I say we ignore Sanity Check because he's clearly a troll.

 

[Sanity Check]

...




If anyone's interested in the science and forensics of fraud detection in elections.


That thread is a good read.





...

 

[xi0]

If anyone's interested in the science and forensics of fraud detection in elections.

Fraud in how many states? Where's the fix for the key Senate races? Why would Dems put fixing the presidential race over those races when McConnel is poised to be even more obstructionist than he was during Obama's second term? Why did they lose seats in the House?

How did the Dems suddenly become competent enough to pull any of this off? The same group of people who just 4 years ago put forth one of the most deeply unliked candidates we've ever seen?

Conspiracy theorists have a severe allergy to Occam's Razor.

 

[kkck]

So apparently the orange looser plans to barricade himself in the white house? setting aside that this is an affront to democracy, it really is just hilarious and pathetic and sad lol. Trump has only so many tantrums left in the oval office...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 7, 2020 ---

...




If anyone's interested in the science and forensics of fraud detection in elections.


That thread is a good read.





...

Oh no, better get Rudy Giuliani on the case, he and the math police will get this sorted.

 

[FetherMan]

Election isn't going to be decided anytime soon. Too many ratings are going up for News corporations, stock markets are doing better since the Tuesday as well. Plus, both parties are literally ready to go to war for a win, nobody wants to lose at all and it's scary how this is going to pan out in the next 4 years.

Still can't believe, Kanye West managed to get 50,000 votes. I'm all for rights and freedoms, but the responsibility when it comes to voting needs to be taken seriously.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 7, 2020 ---

USPS is a democrat controlled left wing institution BTW.

The NALC is not controlled by either party. USPS isn't even really funded by the U.S. Government either, the Regular employees pay for those expensive uniforms to work in with fixed stipends and their paychecks. They make money still from selling stamps mostly and mailing packages more than delivering letter mail. Not sure why you said that.

 

[kkck]

Nah, the election is already over, biden won (fair and square and by a fraction of a hair). And if it wasn't because trump is a big baby who might barricade himself in the oval office the election would have already been called. What we are witnessing now is just the media and AP coddling the baby in chief. What follows now should be the standard suing for recounts which rarely ever flip results.