Politics American Politics

M3J

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paychecks? Defunding the police is definitely not about that. Pretty sure the police in the US isn't making cocaine amounts of money.
Did you read the whole thing or just focused on the paycheck part?
And the police are making quite a bit of money, especially the NYPD. I think part of it is due to overtime.
If it were that simple. Americans are way too polarized so any message that is anti-right is considered a democratic message and to an extent, vice-versa as well. Trump used that to attack Biden.
If you are in a neighbourhood where police are defunded, how do you expect to defend yourself from people's attacks? Lesser police means higher possibility of crime, so people are likely to buy guns. Heck, if i was in Texas or Georgia, i would've bought it too. But where i live, nobody owns one.

Biden didn't do well, that is a fact. If you check the 3rd party votes that didnt go towards Hillary, those have gone to Biden showing a bigger gap. This election was lost by Trump, not won by Biden. And defunding the police would have played a part...
Community policing and all. Lot of people say that cops don't do much and often make the whole thing worse. If you call the cops to rein in a person with mental health issues safely, the chances are they'll get violent or even kill the person. Victims of sexual assault have also said the cops don't do anything to protect them or barely do anything to apprehend the assaulters, or even protect victims of domestic violence.
 

hokageji

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Community policing and all. Lot of people say that cops don't do much and often make the whole thing worse. If you call the cops to rein in a person with mental health issues safely, the chances are they'll get violent or even kill the person. Victims of sexual assault have also said the cops don't do anything to protect them or barely do anything to apprehend the assaulters, or even protect victims of domestic violence.
I dont disagree with you completely, the point i am trying to make is, the message "defundthepolice" was a crappy statement.

Community policing wont help in case of serious offenses. The fact is that cops are in general nice and they do have a few bad apples, and the primary problem is the brotherhood which wont rat each other and point out the bad cops. Thats the bigger problem. Cops are underpaid and overworked... which other profession can you say that about, where government is involved?

If you defund the police, it will mean lesser body cams, or even lesser cops. Some counties said that defunding would result in colored cops being laid off further, and that just makes it worse. YOu cant have zero policing, you understand that right?
 

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If you defund the police, it will mean lesser body cams, or even lesser cops. Some counties said that defunding would result in colored cops being laid off further, and that just makes it worse. YOu cant have zero policing, you understand that right?
As far as I understand this I would think this bits are BS. No one has actually proposed specific policy in regards to "defunding" the police. So its absurd to suggest it'd result in them specifically losing their body cams. Or lesser cops. This is just taking the "defunding the police" thing without any context. Which of course plays into this being a shitty slogan to run on.
 

hokageji

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No one has actually proposed specific policy in regards to "defunding" the police. So its absurd to suggest it'd result in them specifically losing their body cams. Or lesser cops. This is just taking the "defunding the police" thing without any context. Which of course plays into this being a shitty slogan to run on.
I am with you that its a shitty slogan and have said that from the start. And yea, while these proposals were not made by policy makers or people in the government, they were the talks back then.
Defunding the police was an actual thing, something a lot of mayors spoke about. All these things kinda worked against Biden cos even if he doesn't support it, its whats associated with the left and people dont like that. Trump defended the cops on all occasions and even would say blue lives matter, when Biden would say things like most cops are good, but.... Biden managed to get the support of the left, but not as many as the right.
 

M3J

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I dont disagree with you completely, the point i am trying to make is, the message "defundthepolice" was a crappy statement.

Community policing wont help in case of serious offenses. The fact is that cops are in general nice and they do have a few bad apples, and the primary problem is the brotherhood which wont rat each other and point out the bad cops. Thats the bigger problem. Cops are underpaid and overworked... which other profession can you say that about, where government is involved?

If you defund the police, it will mean lesser body cams, or even lesser cops. Some counties said that defunding would result in colored cops being laid off further, and that just makes it worse. YOu cant have zero policing, you understand that right?
It really wasn't, there were good arguments for it. The problem I think was that the leaders didn't really care to defund the police, they were just pretending to for PR.

Where is that a fact? Claiming few bad apples is a pretty shitty argument when there's constant report of them being bad AND the good ones staying quiet or doing nothing about the bad cops.


Based on what? Did they do any research or is that just an assumption that defunding police means lesser stuff? And it'd be their fault if it resulted in cops being laid off, especially if some departments aren't using their money wisely.

SOme policing isn't really as effective. Not to mention, if we focused more on helping out the communities rather than giving the wealthy and corps money, then maybe we wouldn't have as much need for cops.

I am with you that its a shitty slogan and have said that from the start. And yea, while these proposals were not made by policy makers or people in the government, they were the talks back then.
Defunding the police was an actual thing, something a lot of mayors spoke about. All these things kinda worked against Biden cos even if he doesn't support it, its whats associated with the left and people dont like that. Trump defended the cops on all occasions and even would say blue lives matter, when Biden would say things like most cops are good, but.... Biden managed to get the support of the left, but not as many as the right.
Some mayors did it, but then they recently increased the funding.

Biden didn't really get the support of the left as he was still pro-cop. I think you're talking about centrists.
 

hokageji

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I am not debating the specifics about defund the police, you are probably right about that. my only comment is that a lot of people who would've voted against trump were lost because of this. Anyways, if i find that discussion again, will share, tell then i will drop it.
 

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It really wasn't, there were good arguments for it. The problem I think was that the leaders didn't really care to defund the police, they were just pretending to for PR.
The issue is not the substance of defund the police, the issue is the slogan itself. No one who hears "defund the police" will immediately know what this actually means. It doesn't convey any context regarding its intent. It takes actual research to make sense of it. Any reasonable person who hears that without context will just be baffled at the stupidity it is proposing. Imagine if the slogan was something not stupid like "Reform the police".... It'd be much easier to get the point across. But as usual the leftwing in the US can't take two steps without tripping...
 

M3J

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I am not debating the specifics about defund the police, you are probably right about that. my only comment is that a lot of people who would've voted against trump were lost because of this. Anyways, if i find that discussion again, will share, tell then i will drop it.
Then that'd mean they weren't going to vote against Trump anyway if they didn't vote for Biden because of this without doing their research.

The issue is not the substance of defund the police, the issue is the slogan itself. No one who hears "defund the police" will immediately know what this actually means. It doesn't convey any context regarding its intent. It takes actual research to make sense of it. Any reasonable person who hears that without context will just be baffled at the stupidity it is proposing. Imagine if the slogan was something not stupid like "Reform the police".... It'd be much easier to get the point across. But as usual the leftwing in the US can't take two steps without tripping...
That's because they don't want to do any research. Biden and every Democrat and progressive politicians could explain it, and people will still refuse to listen. Any reasonable person who actually has knowledge will either agree or know the benefits of defunding the police, and the issues with cops throughout the country. They won't lost their shit. Reforming the police is also inaccurate for many as they think cops can't be and refuse to be reformed.
 

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That's because they don't want to do any research. Biden and every Democrat and progressive politicians could explain it, and people will still refuse to listen. Any reasonable person who actually has knowledge will either agree or know the benefits of defunding the police, and the issues with cops throughout the country. They won't lost their shit. Reforming the police is also inaccurate for many as they think cops can't be and refuse to be reformed.
Democrats are torn between those who are against what defunding the police actually means and those who won't actually try to get their message across. Essentially, they are not on board. But that doesn't mean "Defunding the police" isn't a shit slogan. it's just an extra pile of shit on top of a turd of a slogan. Slogans are supposed to be clear and convey meaning instantly. It shouldn't require research for people to get that those behind this aren't actually trying to make the police disappear altogether (which would be stupid and indefensible). The message and slogans regarding this issue should invariably and strictly convey the message that the intention is to make the police better and make it work for everyone without needing people to do research.
 

xi0

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Any reasonable person who actually has knowledge will either agree or know the benefits of defunding the police, and the issues with cops throughout the country.
A slogan lacking any nuance that turns off pearl-clutching white people is not going to get a "reasonable" response. There are those, like abolitionists, who truly believe in defunding the police and abolishing prisons, etc. Regardless of the reason, that's not going to be a popular thing. So of course moderates and people on the right are going to focus on this sort of thing and make it into something it isn't.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I think the slogan itself is in response to the sense of futility seen when reform fails. There are an incredible amount of corrupt police departments in this country. They put protecting each other over serving and protecting. That is the kind of cancer that needs to be removed, but how do you do it? New policy with the same old faces? Not very likely. That's where defunding/replacing the police comes into the conversation.
--- Double Post Merged, ---


uh... yikes
 

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So... rather than actually take a stance and fight back against trump's attack at democracy.... biden quietly asks for money to cover something which is already covered by taxpayer dollars? No wonder wall street is ecstatic at the next 4 years of presidential inaction...
 

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Democrats are torn between those who are against what defunding the police actually means and those who won't actually try to get their message across. Essentially, they are not on board. But that doesn't mean "Defunding the police" isn't a shit slogan. it's just an extra pile of shit on top of a turd of a slogan. Slogans are supposed to be clear and convey meaning instantly. It shouldn't require research for people to get that those behind this aren't actually trying to make the police disappear altogether (which would be stupid and indefensible). The message and slogans regarding this issue should invariably and strictly convey the message that the intention is to make the police better and make it work for everyone without needing people to do research.
Not really, they aren't torn. They know what it means, and they're just performing acts to look good.

I mean, people have been saying "Abolish the Police" instead of "Defund the Police" as well, but people are dumb.

A slogan lacking any nuance that turns off pearl-clutching white people is not going to get a "reasonable" response. There are those, like abolitionists, who truly believe in defunding the police and abolishing prisons, etc. Regardless of the reason, that's not going to be a popular thing. So of course moderates and people on the right are going to focus on this sort of thing and make it into something it isn't.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I think the slogan itself is in response to the sense of futility seen when reform fails. There are an incredible amount of corrupt police departments in this country. They put protecting each other over serving and protecting. That is the kind of cancer that needs to be removed, but how do you do it? New policy with the same old faces? Not very likely. That's where defunding/replacing the police comes into the conversation.
--- Double Post Merged, ---


uh... yikes
I mean, I just looked it up, and Biden does not support defunding the police at all, so it is weird that people seem to think he does. There seems to be no point in arguing against this when they could just do simple research.

Especially abolishment. EVen after the protests few months ago, cops are still violent and useless, so people are using evidence to explain why abolishing cops is better.
So... rather than actually take a stance and fight back against trump's attack at democracy.... biden quietly asks for money to cover something which is already covered by taxpayer dollars? No wonder wall street is ecstatic at the next 4 years of presidential inaction...
This is why the election was close rather than Biden winning by thousands more, if not millions more. The further left see him as another corp Dem, and he just proved them correct.

But he is fighting back against Trump. Getting into war of words doesn't help anyone.
 

xi0

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I mean, I just looked it up, and Biden does not support defunding the police at all, so it is weird that people seem to think he does. There seems to be no point in arguing against this when they could just do simple research.

Especially abolishment. EVen after the protests few months ago, cops are still violent and useless, so people are using evidence to explain why abolishing cops is better.
It doesn't matter what Biden believes, it matters what people think his party represents

Abolitionists don't limit this to just cops though. And like I said, starting the conversation with "defund the police" instantly ends the conversation with some people lol
 

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This is why the election was close rather than Biden winning by thousands more, if not millions more. The further left see him as another corp Dem, and he just proved them correct.

But he is fighting back against Trump. Getting into war of words doesn't help anyone.
I would make the point that said war on words is important. If only to at least get a message across. It's not about being civil, it's about actually fighting for your positions and getting your message across. Biden could be doing more to get his message across, if at least only to his own party, that trump is actually trying to end democracy in the US, to steal the election. Republicans actually do this, get their bases to engage and that shifts policy, which gets them wins. In spite of the republican party being utterly unable to get a majority of people behind their president...
 

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Proof democrats are doing everything in their power to "fight" big tech.

:toc
 
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M3J

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It doesn't matter what Biden believes, it matters what people think his party represents

Abolitionists don't limit this to just cops though. And like I said, starting the conversation with "defund the police" instantly ends the conversation with some people lol
Okay, that makes sense. Biden may be against defunding, but if majority of his party supports it, then that'll rub people the wrong way.



I would make the point that said war on words is important. If only to at least get a message across. It's not about being civil, it's about actually fighting for your positions and getting your message across. Biden could be doing more to get his message across, if at least only to his own party, that trump is actually trying to end democracy in the US, to steal the election. Republicans actually do this, get their bases to engage and that shifts policy, which gets them wins. In spite of the republican party being utterly unable to get a majority of people behind their president...
Why is it important for Biden to harp on and on about something that others are already saying? Anti-Trumpers are aware of what Trump is doing, while the Trump cult are still idiotically blind and will continue to side with him. Why shouldn't Biden focus on actually coming up with good policies? Republicans don't need to do much, they can easily lie and get away with it because their bases are gullible, whereas in this case, all Biden would be doing is reiterating what others are saying. I don't remember if he's mentioned what Trump is doing, but he probably has, and he doesn't have any need to keep going.
 

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How many people in US who didn't vote, Is there any statistics out?
 

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How many people in US who didn't vote, Is there any statistics out?

Around 150 million voted.

Out of approximately 250 million eligible voters.

"Officially".
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

The area of foreign policy where Joe Biden shines is

ISIS, drug cartels and terrorists who feared Trump can come out of hiding and return to expanding their power and influence. Knowing they're safe.


Above is known.

After an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed in an apparent ambush near Tehran on Friday, former CIA Director John Brennan said that it was a "criminal act & highly reckless." He said it "risks lethal retaliation & a new round of regional conflict." Brennan said that Iranian leaders should wait until Biden is in office, and not engage with the Trump administration.


:toc
 

hokageji

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Surely Iran and USA must have better relationships. But I doubt Iran can trust the nation after backing out of the nuclear deal. Its wise to wait for Biden.


I think Biden's focus would remain on restoring the nation post covid and get everyone back on their feet.
 

M3J

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How will Biden do that? And even if he's serious about it, unless McConnell loses power, he'll just cockblock anything that'll help Americans.
 
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