American Politics

[kkck]

Do ppl really want antifa, democrats and Joe Biden running the country? ^

Nah, I am pretty sure the 78 mil million people who voted for biden did it ironically.

 

[xi0]

It's just hilarious to me that people think Antifa has taken over the DNC when they're corporatist hacks who habitually work against progressive candidates and blocked the most popular candidate from getting the nomination 2 elections in a row. The DNC is more interested in slobbering over Lincoln Project Republicans than they are anyone within their own party.

If the Biden-Socialist narrative wasn't so god damn funny it would be infuriating.

 

[M3J]

Do ppl really want antifa, democrats and Joe Biden running the country? ^

ah, typical right wing bs. Ignore the violence from their side, whine about the "violence" from the other side. ONe good thing about Trump saying shit like this is that you know there's more to it, and that he's likely not being honest or completely truthful.

 

[shionoro]

It's just hilarious to me that people think Antifa has taken over the DNC when they're corporatist hacks who habitually work against progressive candidates and blocked the most popular candidate from getting the nomination 2 elections in a row. The DNC is more interested in slobbering over Lincoln Project Republicans than they are anyone within their own party.

If the Biden-Socialist narrative wasn't so god damn funny it would be infuriating.

I think it was smart by Biden to cater to the blue leaning republicans. Like that, even among republicans they 'biden is controlled by antifa' narrative didnt work as well as it could have.
I also think he should start catering at least a little bit to the left right now, or at least very soon.

He is in an impossible situation. He is a centrist who wants to keep the left wing and the right wing relatively happy. I don't envy him.

 

[kkck]

I think it was smart by Biden to cater to the blue leaning republicans. Like that, even among republicans they 'biden is controlled by antifa' narrative didnt work as well as it could have.
I also think he should start catering at least a little bit to the left right now, or at least very soon.

He is in an impossible situation. He is a centrist who wants to keep the left wing and the right wing relatively happy. I don't envy him.

That narrative would have never worked. Who would it cater to? There are no moderate republicans for democrats to cater to. just look at the Lincoln project and how utterly ineffective they were at changing the republican party's mind. The entirety of it still voted trump and biden only won by a hair.

Nah, biden is a corporate hack who wants the party's left wing to sing him songs and praises over him not being trump. Which is far away from even the bare minimum... And biden will join the republican party while president of the US before catering to the progressive wing now that he is president. If he didn't cater to them before then now he doesn't even need them, he is already president. Heck, biden in his own brand of hillary-esk idiocy ran on working with republicans. Meaning he has placed himself in a situation where he is to some extent accountable to them while at the same time the republican party will never under any circumstances make concessions to him.

 

[shionoro]

That narrative would have never worked. Who would it cater to? There are no moderate republicans for democrats to cater to. just look at the Lincoln project and how utterly ineffective they were at changing the republican party's mind. The entirety of it still voted trump and biden only won by a hair.

Nah, biden is a corporate hack who wants the party's left wing to sing him songs and praises over him not being trump. Which is far away from even the bare minimum... And biden will join the republican party while president of the US before catering to the progressive wing now that he is president. If he didn't cater to them before then now he doesn't even need them, he is already president. Heck, biden in his own brand of hillary-esk idiocy ran on working with republicans. Meaning he has placed himself in a situation where he is to some extent accountable to them while at the same time the republican party will never under any circumstances make concessions to him.

I mean, it did work.

Biden won the election and he won by getting more white and old voters who would usually vote republican than Clinton did. He could have instead catered to the left, but I don't think that would have worked. Even if they all wanted to vote for him (and most of those who were registered did), voter suppression would not enable biden to win with just the youth vote.
Just like sanders could not win against clinton or Biden.

I think it is pretty unfair to call Biden a coprorate hack or whatever. Biden first and foremost has the aim to get the country back to at leas the smallest consensus. In his opinion (and mine too) it would be counterproductive to embrace stuff like defund the police or far left leaning tax plans right now or before the election.

The republican propaganda DID work a lot. Just not with Biden. It worked and almost lost democrats a house win, even tho they outspent their republican opponents.
It just didnt work with biden because he avoided the left the best way he could.

Biden already did a lot of things right, but his task is very, very hard. Especially should georgia not get two blue senators. Because in that case, republicans have a say about his cabinet.

 

[M3J]

Biden does not care about the left. Corps and Centrists, sure, but he does not like the left, even. He, like most Democrats, don't support defunding or abolishing the cops, and he's made that clear when he could have just been a bit ambiguous about it. Biden didn't need to cater to just the left, just promise to consider some things or lie about some things to get their support.

Trump was going to accuse Biden of being socialist one way or another, so it doesn't matter.

 

[kkck]

I mean, no sane person should support abolishing the cops. That's just absurd. Defunding the police makes sense in context (which is demilitarizing the police, retraining them and redirect money to other social services). But yeah, biden isn't likely to get behind any version of this.

 

[M3J]

Defunding the police doesn't make sense, and they've proven they can't be reformed. Hell, when Trump supporters/white supremacists lose their shit, the cops don't do anything about it like they do with BLM protesters who aren't doing anything bad. Abolishing is better.

 

[kkck]

I mean, it did work.

Biden won the election and he won by getting more white and old voters who would usually vote republican than Clinton did. He could have instead catered to the left, but I don't think that would have worked. Even if they all wanted to vote for him (and most of those who were registered did), voter suppression would not enable biden to win with just the youth vote.
Just like sanders could not win against clinton or Biden.

I think it is pretty unfair to call Biden a coprorate hack or whatever. Biden first and foremost has the aim to get the country back to at leas the smallest consensus. In his opinion (and mine too) it would be counterproductive to embrace stuff like defund the police or far left leaning tax plans right now or before the election.

The republican propaganda DID work a lot. Just not with Biden. It worked and almost lost democrats a house win, even tho they outspent their republican opponents.
It just didnt work with biden because he avoided the left the best way he could.

Biden already did a lot of things right, but his task is very, very hard. Especially should georgia not get two blue senators. Because in that case, republicans have a say about his cabinet.

Biden won the election but that doesn't mean he actually succeeded in getting votes from republicans... people showed up to vote in droves, you have historic turnout. republicans in general also showed up in historic numbers to support trump.

Biden is without an iota of a hack a corporate hack. The label is fair and well earned through every single day and through most positions he has ever taken. Biden is the "nothing will fundamentally change" candidate. That smallest consensus you mention biden should aim for.... Not gonna happen, it can't happen. It's not where the country is at. Biden right now is essentially running without an agenda and as such his success chances exist as much as his agenda. Biden could get the US back on track on the international stage, rebuild alliance and such. And that would be immensely important. But to people living in the US that means jack shit. Just like it meant jack shit when they elected trump in spite of the incredible effectiveness of the strategy against ISIS at the time (on which trump piggybagged) and even the iran deal, an actual diplomatic solution to at least several issues with iran.

I will also add that the reason biden doesn't get behind defunding the police isn't because its politically inconvenient. It's because he doesn't believe the police needs reforming.

 

[xi0]

I think it was smart by Biden to cater to the blue leaning republicans. Like that, even among republicans they 'biden is controlled by antifa' narrative didnt work as well as it could have.
I also think he should start catering at least a little bit to the left right now, or at least very soon.

There are no "blue-leaning republicans". A republican would record themselves wiping their ass with the flag before they voted for a Democrat. Democrats have some sort of weird obsession with acting like Trump's rhetoric trumps his policies. The Lincoln Project only existed for people on the right to act like they had some sort of moral objection to Trump's presidency. By and large they have no real ideological differences with him. He lost in places like Georgia because of the efforts of people like Stacy Abrams and he lost in Arizona because of his insistence on shitting on John McCain. Never-Trump Republicans did nothing more than wage a PR effort to distance themselves from him. They obviously had no interest in the Senate and House races, which were of pretty high importance to Democrats as well. I have no idea why anyone would insist on crediting them, not supporting a demonstrable piece of shit isn't worth some sort of celebration.

He'll never cater to the left, because Democrats naively think that costs them elections instead of nominating popular candidates, or supporting popular ideas, or energizing young and minority voters. The grand irony is Republicans will call you a hammer and sickle marxist even if you're a moderate. You're seeing it now.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2020 ---

Biden won the election and he won by getting more white and old voters who would usually vote republican than Clinton did.

This happened because 1) he's not Hillary Clinton and 2) he's not a woman. It's not a result of Biden catering to anyone. Don't forget, more people still voted for Hillary over Trump. Having even higher turnout and Trump's handling of COVID-19 are the main reasons he lost.

 

[shionoro]

There are no "blue-leaning republicans". A republican would record themselves wiping their ass with the flag before they voted for a Democrat. Democrats have some sort of weird obsession with acting like Trump's rhetoric trumps his policies. The Lincoln Project only existed for people on the right to act like they had some sort of moral objection to Trump's presidency. By and large they have no real ideological differences with him. He lost in places like Georgia because of the efforts of people like Stacy Abrams and he lost in Arizona because of his insistence on shitting on John McCain. Never-Trump Republicans did nothing more than wage a PR effort to distance themselves from him. They obviously had no interest in the Senate and House races, which were of pretty high importance to Democrats as well. I have no idea why anyone would insist on crediting them, not supporting a demonstrable piece of shit isn't worth some sort of celebration.

He'll never cater to the left, because Democrats naively think that costs them elections instead of nominating popular candidates, or supporting popular ideas, or energizing young and minority voters. The grand irony is Republicans will call you a hammer and sickle marxist even if you're a moderate. You're seeing it now.

There evidently are. There are swing voters who voted Trump but voted Biden this time, or rather, who often vote red but voted blue this time or stayed home because they didnt perceive Biden as the same threat they perceived clinton as.
That is just a fact.
Efforts like those of Stacy Abrams would not have been possible if Biden would have let the republicans paint him as even the slightest bit open to things like defunding the police or similar ideas that are popular on the left. Him keeping his distance from these ideas and playing the 'unity' card was the smartest thing he could have done.

This happened because 1) he's not Hillary Clinton and 2) he's not a woman. It's not a result of Biden catering to anyone. Don't forget, more people still voted for Hillary over Trump. Having even higher turnout and Trump's handling of COVID-19 are the main reasons he lost.

That is just a claim. Let's keep in mind that back when Sanders was in the race, Biden still polled better in head to head polls against Trump than Sanders did.
Let's also keep in mind that Biden was more successful than both the house and senate democrats.
Biden did better in states like georgia than the democrats in the senate race, he also did better in many states than the house democrats.

It is undeniable that Biden had a very successful strategy as a candidate.

Biden won the election but that doesn't mean he actually succeeded in getting votes from republicans... people showed up to vote in droves, you have historic turnout. republicans in general also showed up in historic numbers to support trump.

Biden is without an iota of a hack a corporate hack. The label is fair and well earned through every single day and through most positions he has ever taken. Biden is the "nothing will fundamentally change" candidate. That smallest consensus you mention biden should aim for.... Not gonna happen, it can't happen. It's not where the country is at. Biden right now is essentially running without an agenda and as such his success chances exist as much as his agenda. Biden could get the US back on track on the international stage, rebuild alliance and such. And that would be immensely important. But to people living in the US that means jack shit. Just like it meant jack shit when they elected trump in spite of the incredible effectiveness of the strategy against ISIS at the time (on which trump piggybagged) and even the iran deal, an actual diplomatic solution to at least several issues with iran.

I will also add that the reason biden doesn't get behind defunding the police isn't because its politically inconvenient. It's because he doesn't believe the police needs reforming.

How is that a fair label in the wake of american politics? Which longterm high profile politicans aside from popular leftist icons are not corporate hacks in your opinion?

Also: If Biden didnt get votes from republicans who would usually vote red but voted blue this time, why did lots of people vote Biden but not the blue senator in their state?
You cannot only explain that with Trumps unpopularity. Biden made it easy for a republican who loathed Trump to vote for him, that is why he was successful in states where the few republicans that could be swayed mattered, like pennsylvania and georgia.
I am not saying the turnout did not matter, it sure did, but so did that Biden could not be used to create a bigger republican turnout on the other side.

Had Biden done things like endorse defunding the police, a wealth tax and the complete green deal, these things could have gone very differently.
This was a close election, these votes mattered.

And it is also going to matter if the senate turns red.

 

[xi0]

There evidently are. There are swing voters who voted Trump but voted Biden this time, or rather, who often vote red but voted blue this time or stayed home because they didnt perceive Biden as the same threat they perceived clinton as.
That is just a fact.
Efforts like those of Stacy Abrams would not have been possible if Biden would have let the republicans paint him as even the slightest bit open to things like defunding the police or similar ideas that are popular on the left. Him keeping his distance from these ideas and playing the 'unity' card was the smartest thing he could have done.

Yeah but that's not a credit to Biden catering to them IMO. The "unity" card means nothing on it's own, it was just in stark contrast to Trump.

Those ideas aren't popular among Democrats though, that's right-wing media speak. It's not some smart play really, he was never going to be for those types of things unless they were popular. Which they aren't among the average Democrat. Sure, police reform might be, but if you're going to treat the expression without any nuance, of course it's not a popular concept. The effort to paint Harris as some raving socialist lunatic when she herself has a terrible anti-progressive history California or that either were just some Antifa puppet also failed. Nothing about their ticket was inspiring, it merely represented a return to "normal" and a removal of a cringe-inducing wannabe-autocrat that fumbled the response to the largest public health crisis in the last century.

That is just a claim. Let's keep in mind that back when Sanders was in the race, Biden still polled better in head to head polls against Trump than Sanders did.
Let's also keep in mind that Biden was more successful than both the house and senate democrats.
Biden did better in states like georgia than the democrats in the senate race, he also did better in many states than the house democrats.

It is undeniable that Biden had a very successful strategy as a candidate.

You've lost context there though. Biden polled better after Harris, Buttegieg, and Klobuchar dropped out and uniformly endorsed him within a week before Super Tuesday. Let's not pretend like that was accidental lol. Sanders polled better than Clinton did against Trump as well, but why was his candidacy largely ignored by the Democratic establishment? It's certainly not because he would stand no chance against Trump.

Biden was more successful than the House for sure, but not the Senate really. Democrats hoped to flip the Senate, but they still gained a seat and might gain 2 after the GA runoff. But yeah, I guess it was still it disappointing for those delusional enough to hope for a Blue Wave by marching Biden out there as the party's best hope.

 

[kkck]

There evidently are. There are swing voters who voted Trump but voted Biden this time, or rather, who often vote red but voted blue this time or stayed home because they didnt perceive Biden as the same threat they perceived clinton as.
That is just a fact.
Efforts like those of Stacy Abrams would not have been possible if Biden would have let the republicans paint him as even the slightest bit open to things like defunding the police or similar ideas that are popular on the left. Him keeping his distance from these ideas and playing the 'unity' card was the smartest thing he could have done.

How is that a fair label in the wake of american politics? Which longterm high profile politicans aside from popular leftist icons are not corporate hacks in your opinion?

Also: If Biden didnt get votes from republicans who would usually vote red but voted blue this time, why did lots of people vote Biden but not the blue senator in their state?
You cannot only explain that with Trumps unpopularity. Biden made it easy for a republican who loathed Trump to vote for him, that is why he was successful in states where the few republicans that could be swayed mattered, like pennsylvania and georgia.
I am not saying the turnout did not matter, it sure did, but so did that Biden could not be used to create a bigger republican turnout on the other side.

Had Biden done things like endorse defunding the police, a wealth tax and the complete green deal, these things could have gone very differently.
This was a close election, these votes mattered.

And it is also going to matter if the senate turns red.

Based on what? I don't really see any evidence that republicans voted for biden.

But, biden was painted as open to defunding the police, the green new deal and other such things regardless of coming out against them. Biden could have campaigned on free guns, eliminating taxes altogether and selling the government to wall street and he would still have been attacked as a tree hugging marxist. And it wasn't just trump attacking him like that, it was the entire right wing machine including media and at a minimum the vast majority of republican politicians. Democrats keep making the mistake of thinking there is something they can do in the current political climate to stop the opposing party from calling them communists. And there just isn't.

So, biden isn't a corporate hack because of the environment he is in? That's nonsense. And sure, this plays out to how cartoonishly corrupt politics in the US are when it comes to money in politics.... But Biden has been one of the more influential US politicians from the past few decades. He isn't one of the better democrats in this regard. Going further, kamala wasn't elected as VP because she will fight corporate power in the government.

Welp, if the senate stays red then biden can at least pretend he has an agenda which republicans won't let pass...

 

[M3J]

All evidence points to Biden being a corporate hack and centrist.

Anyway, how many cities defunded the police few months ago but are now increasing their funding? I've heard of different cities like Minneapolis (?) and LA doing that....

 

[hokageji]

If not for defund the police, Trump wouldn't have been so close either... that was a bullshit narrative... even if the idea wasn't to cut funding, people only read hashtag and that's the message that comes out.

If police would be defunded, 2nd amendment would be much more important and that's scarier.

 

[M3J]

It wasn't defunding the police, but Trump accusing Biden of wanting to abolish it, I believe. Police being defunded wouldn't really make the 2nd Amendment that much more important, it'd just mean the paychecks wouldn't be as big or them getting so many unnecessary equipments. Trump would have come close either way.

 

[kkck]

It wasn't defunding the police, but Trump accusing Biden of wanting to abolish it, I believe. Police being defunded wouldn't really make the 2nd Amendment that much more important, it'd just mean the paychecks wouldn't be as big or them getting so many unnecessary equipments. Trump would have come close either way.

paychecks? Defunding the police is definitely not about that. Pretty sure the police in the US isn't making cocaine amounts of money.

 

[hokageji]

It wasn't defunding the police, but Trump accusing Biden of wanting to abolish it, I believe. Police being defunded wouldn't really make the 2nd Amendment that much more important, it'd just mean the paychecks wouldn't be as big or them getting so many unnecessary equipments. Trump would have come close either way.

If it were that simple. Americans are way too polarized so any message that is anti-right is considered a democratic message and to an extent, vice-versa as well. Trump used that to attack Biden.
If you are in a neighbourhood where police are defunded, how do you expect to defend yourself from people's attacks? Lesser police means higher possibility of crime, so people are likely to buy guns. Heck, if i was in Texas or Georgia, i would've bought it too. But where i live, nobody owns one.

Biden didn't do well, that is a fact. If you check the 3rd party votes that didnt go towards Hillary, those have gone to Biden showing a bigger gap. This election was lost by Trump, not won by Biden. And defunding the police would have played a part...

 

[kkck]

Well, to be fair biden has won the election by about 6 million votes so far. Beating trump by over 3% of the votes in such a polarized environment is respectable at least. Biden's mandate isn't.... overwhelming so to speak but its more solid than what he has been given credit for. If trump completed 4 years while having lost the popular vote by 3 million votes then biden can do fine with having won by 6 million votes. The only reason this was even a contest is because the electoral college, anti democratic institution which USA folk have been brainwashed into using and keeping, is a thing in the 21th century... It's absurd to have a electoral college for presidential elections and the US already has a senate which gives individual states more than adequate representation.