American Politics

kkck

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There is a factor beyond how popular obama's policy was or wasn't: Obama actually cooperated with US allies on the international stage. Legitimacy through cooperation, no unilateral action... In that sense, policy during his time wasn't exclusively obama policy

I will also make the point that none of obama's wars were ones he started. The bulk of those conflicts would have happened whether Obama got the US involved or not. There is a case to be made that obama shouldn't have gotten involved in those wars but it's not like obama has 3-4 Iraqs under his belt.

And the US and allies should continue to fight ISIS wherever it might be...
 

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US sucks at human rights, that's a fact. Might not even top 5 worst, but it's bad.


fuck
lol one of my students brought that up today, and all i was like was...silence, like no relevant sight mentioned that.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

republicans have got to be so embarrassed by their leaders

 

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since this forum is heavily liberal, or left wing oriented, i'd like to specifically ask you guys, what would you rate as a positive about Trump's presidency?
Everyone can answer of course...
You can take a partial positive from something as well, just looking to see if people find anything...

Here are a few for me:
I got my GC during Trump's presidency, and one additional thing was an interview. Me and my wife had to give it which people before didnt have to, they just received a mail. To me, this is a positive, even though it associates additional paperwork.
Work-wise, h1b visa has beome a little chaotic, but they have hunted down fake visa venues effectively. Lots of universities popped up which offer work authorization on student visa on day 1, which otherwise for legit students need to complete their degrees to get for a year. Trump admin has hunted those more...
Again, there's a lot of negatives which i am choosing not to write of course...

really need to scratch my brain for me, but yea, stopped certain companies getting bought by China. I think those were good moves... cant think of others..
 

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Republicans are not embarrassed, they're too busy feeling like they got cheated to be aware of how bad they look. Ironically, given Dems werent' any better with their Russia obsession.
 

kkck

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I would still argue the "russia obsession" back at 2016 was more than warranted. Democrats weren't saying the votes at the time were invalid or illegal. The concerns at the time were over whether the trump campaign was collaborating with russia and the subsequent investigation. Trump literally told russia to hack his political enemies, and they did. The mueller report could not prove trump's campaign colluded with russia but they did prove trump's campaign was more than willing to embrace all the help foreign agents could provide them with (add to that a way too many indictments, destroyed evdence, cover ups and all the disturbing stuff in the report). Which is not something people can be charged with a crime for but at a minimum is grossly unethical, undemocratic (in the sense of democracy, not the party obviously) and unamerican. . It's an entirely different situation from trump making up with zero evidence that there were millions of illegal votes or that the election was in any way stolen from him.
 

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but how did that help? What did it do, other than let Trump be known as an impeached president who remained president and was somehow able to run for presidency again?
 

kkck

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but how did that help? What did it do, other than let Trump be known as an impeached president who remained president and was somehow able to run for presidency again?
I mean, the substance is there. That democrats are too weak to even try to fight to make their case and their audience has a a mashed potato brain that can't grasp any nuance is a different issue...
 

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Republicans forgetting to sign into their fake accounts getting caught (by their other colleagues, lol)
 

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stopped certain companies getting bought by China. I think those were good moves... cant think of others..

I should have made a list. There are many things I forgot.

Short list of Trump's achievements

  • Investigating and prosecuting the Sackler family for causing the opioid / painkiller crisis
  • Reduced the cost of insulin and other medication
  • Negotiated the return of american soldier remains from north korea
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed human trafficking networks bringing kingpins like Jeffrey Epstein to justice
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed terrorist groups like ISIS
  • Record economic growth, record low unemployment, record low americans on welfare and food stamps, record job creation
  • Reformed horrible trade deals like NAFTA
  • Forced china into an equal trade relationship with america, rather than the previous abusive one
  • Demanded other members of NATO and the UN to pay their fair share, rather than the USA pay for everything
  • Returned many manufacturing jobs to america, strengthened america's ability to compete in global markets
 

kkck

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I should have made a list. There are many things I forgot.

Short list of Trump's achievements

  • Investigating and prosecuting the Sackler family for causing the opioid / painkiller crisis
  • Reduced the cost of insulin and other medication
  • Negotiated the return of american soldier remains from north korea
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed human trafficking networks bringing kingpins like Jeffrey Epstein to justice
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed terrorist groups like ISIS
  • Record economic growth, record low unemployment, record low americans on welfare and food stamps, record job creation
  • Reformed horrible trade deals like NAFTA
  • Forced china into an equal trade relationship with america, rather than the previous abusive one
  • Demanded other members of NATO and the UN to pay their fair share, rather than the USA pay for everything
  • Returned many manufacturing jobs to america, strengthened america's ability to compete in global markets
The sackler family lawsuits weren't due to trump.... The family/company has been under scrutiny for nearly 20 years and has been dealing with lawsuits over oxycoting for at least that long. States, cities, attorney generals from states had been after them for years. Not only was this not a trump thing, trump's justice department let them go easy with a 200 million dollar fine.

According to pretty much the entire internet but trump, the price of insulin has not gone down. Trump's executive orders won't even kick in until 2021...

Trump has nothing to do with the case against jeffrey epstein... Other than him being besties with him some time ago.

ISIS has not been destroyed.

Trump definitely has not had record economic growth.

Trump's deal is 99% identical to NAFTA. That 1% is but a minor improvement for the US...

The trade war is still ongoing and hasn't yielded any positive results for the US...

That's literally not how nato or the UN works. No one is making payments of any sort because that literally can't happen.

Trump hasn't returned jobs to the US. Heck, trump's negotiations with companies early in his presidency to have them stay in the US in exchange for tax incentives largely backfired. The companies took the money and then still left at least partially. Hence why trump stopped talking about this. I will point out that there are companies that have gone back from china BUT the main reason for that is automation, since it changes the company's cost structure by making labor weight less, rather than whatever policy trump pretended to implement.
 

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since this forum is heavily liberal, or left wing oriented, i'd like to specifically ask you guys, what would you rate as a positive about Trump's presidency?
Moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It's a policy move long overdue.
 

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Short list of Trump's achievements

  • Investigating and prosecuting the Sackler family for causing the opioid / painkiller crisis
  • Reduced the cost of insulin and other medication
  • Negotiated the return of american soldier remains from north korea
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed human trafficking networks bringing kingpins like Jeffrey Epstein to justice
  • Cracked down upon and destroyed terrorist groups like ISIS
  • Record economic growth, record low unemployment, record low americans on welfare and food stamps, record job creation
  • Reformed horrible trade deals like NAFTA
  • Forced china into an equal trade relationship with america, rather than the previous abusive one
  • Demanded other members of NATO and the UN to pay their fair share, rather than the USA pay for everything
  • Returned many manufacturing jobs to america, strengthened america's ability to compete in global markets
I think the cost of insulin isnt true, here's factcheck denying the claim. This is from September but i doubt its changed....
Regarding jobs, i want to disagree but i couldnt find numbers pre covid, and its not fair to discredit him for manufacturing jobs post covid.

If there are numbers that show an increase in manufacturing jobs from 2017 to 2019, which is more that the average growth of jobs the country has seen these years, we can credit him.

I somewhat agree with the China part, but honestly that benefited other nations more and will continue to do so. But I do agree that his administration was ready to talk about China's issues. Dont think he spoke enough in specific terms but more than others for sure.

I doubt you can give him credit for Epstein. Rest of things are opinion based and my aim isnt to disagree, just to hear and discuss. THanks for sharing.



Moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It's a policy move long overdue.
Yea, i think you are right about that. Now there's an argument to be made whether its good or bad, but the fact that he achieved it should be credited.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Israel has never once had any intention of foregoing its claim over Jerusalem and the Palestinians are a hopeless cause. The decision is long overdue in recognizing this reality. Also, the decision hardly pissed anyone off. Israel has gained relations with 3 countries (UAE, Bahrain, Kosovo) in the last month. Serbia has also agreed to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Mauritania, and Oman are probably the most likely next candidates to normalize relations with Israel. Pakistan too if the Pakistani army has its way over the current Islamist Populist government. Saudi's apparently are still hesitant to do it directly but they still approved of Bahrain normalizing relations with Israel too. (Bahrain is a Saudi vassal state and occupied currently by Saudi soldiers.)
I think the Palestine - Israel issue itself is way too complicated to address with just one sentence, but i must say that there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to islamic nations addressing issues.
 

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I am actually a bit worried still. Since I can remember, no American government is actually much liked for their foreign policy here and Obama's actually costed him his reputation here.

When he first got elected, people were wearing Obama t-shirts even here in Germany, compelled by his promises of change and because Bush was heavily disliked here for, well his foreign policy, mainly the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But when Obama's second term ended he was only still liked here for what Biden is liked now, because he is not Donald Trump.
The Civil Wars in Ukraine and especially Syria and spying on our Chancellor essentially put an end to our optimism regarding America even long before Trump got elected.

The general consensus here about Biden regarding questions like economic relationships with the EU or the future foreign policy of the US in the Middle East is that it is "very likely getting better because Biden is not Trump". That leaves a lot of question marks.
Reputation and reality are very different kinds of beasts.
It doesnt matter a lot what german citizens think of obama. Under Obama, there never were serious divisions between Europe and the Us.
Even the spy scandal was a scandal for the public, but not for politicians.
Merkel was not angry about american espionage organs (as germany strongly benefits from them), she was angry about the incompetence of the story getting out. Because then she had to deal with it and never heard the end of it, being pushed to 'a reaction' and other unnecessary stuff.

Its not about small questions like this. It is about the big ones.
Will there be a united front against climate change or not?
Will there be a united western front against chinese/russian aggression or not?
Will America be a force of consensus and stability or not?

Under Obama, the answer was clear. not always the way the Europeans wanted it, but still, it was clear that america was an ally. Under Trump, that just was not true. It was unthinkable before that the US and Eu would engage in tradewars. Now it is reality.
Both Obama and Biden would obviously have some things in which the american interests clash with the european ones. That is normal and such disputes can be settled and a consensus can be found, ideally behind closed doors.
That is a very different thing from a guy who destroys american influence and endangers european safety interests by pulling troops just because of personal petty anger issues.
 

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According to CNN.

Women turned out in "record numbers" to vote for a candidate who is world famous for sniffing women and girls.



Nothing unbelievable about this?


:toc
 

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The cartoonist and people showing the cartoons have exactly zero blame for this. They were victims of unhinged lunatics who think their silly religious interpretation stands above basic human rights. People have a right to draw, depict, wear or shit on whichever religious figure they please.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



TBH to me this straight up terrifying. It completely changed my view of the muslim world as a whole... To me it looks like about 40% of the muslim world actually believes the rest of us, even when we specifically don't belong to their religion, still have to follow their laws. I could buy their most extreme fanatics and their most insane leaders being this unhinged but if a percentage that huge of their culture as a whole stands by a believe THAT monstrous and barbaric...
I mean, it seems a lot of religious people are that much of fanatics. Didn't some Hindus kill Muslims in India because they claimed the Muslim killed a cow or something? The current climate in India is that if you're not pro-Hindu, you're Hinduphobic and deserve to get beaten up.

According to CNN.

Women turned out in "record numbers" to vote for a candidate who is world famous for sniffing women and girls.



Nothing unbelievable about this?


:toc
To kick out a president who encourages sexual assault, was accused of rape by his ex-wife, is a serial cheater, and has been in the company of a known pedophile sex ring runner or leader. Oh, and Trump has also been accused of walking through beauty pageants' dressing room without warning as they were getting ready, though I don't remember if they were of age or under.
 

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To kick out a president who encourages sexual assault, was accused of rape by his ex-wife, is a serial cheater, and has been in the company of a known pedophile sex ring runner or leader. Oh, and Trump has also been accused of walking through beauty pageants' dressing room without warning as they were getting ready, though I don't remember if they were of age or under.

I watched almost all of Hunter Biden's sex tapes that were leaked. That guy is a freak and a savage. But I don't think anything negative about him. He has videos of him banging his own niece, but whatever man. Who am I to judge. Its been claimed the lead actress of disney's new Mulan movie, Liu Yifei, is in some of Hunter's sex videos. There are interesting poltiical implications surrounding that, with some claiming Liu Yifei works for the chinese communist party.

I seem to remember Stormy Daniels confirmed for attending NXIVM parties. Which could be a conflict of interest as far as her accusations on Trump go. There are so many different angles and unknowns. I don't know how people can treat these topics as if they were validated by peer reviewed science. There's just so much that we don't know, that can't be explained by watching the news or reading an article.
 

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Israel has never once had any intention of foregoing its claim over Jerusalem and the Palestinians are a hopeless cause. The decision is long overdue in recognizing this reality. Also, the decision hardly pissed anyone off. Israel has gained relations with 3 countries (UAE, Bahrain, Kosovo) in the last month. Serbia has also agreed to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Mauritania, and Oman are probably the most likely next candidates to normalize relations with Israel. Pakistan too if the Pakistani army has its way over the current Islamist Populist government. Saudi's apparently are still hesitant to do it directly but they still approved of Bahrain normalizing relations with Israel too. (Bahrain is a Saudi vassal state and occupied currently by Saudi soldiers.)
But the thing is, all these countries were de facto no longer real enemies, as they are all allies of the US. And they all had an aligning anti-Iran agenda before.

The general consensus here is that this is just symbolism that Trump was able to get because his son-in-law Kushner is best friends with Netanyahu.

Also if the Palestinians are to be given up (do you actually support ethnocide here?), then that's also a declaration of bankruptcy for the Israeli democracy. It has been 25 years now since Rabin got murdered.

Fortunately, Netanyahu's time is limited now and this is something where I hope that the Biden administration will capitalize on to bring forward actual progress towards peace in the region.


Reputation and reality are very different kinds of beasts.
It doesnt matter a lot what german citizens think of obama. Under Obama, there never were serious divisions between Europe and the Us.
Even the spy scandal was a scandal for the public, but not for politicians.
Merkel was not angry about american espionage organs (as germany strongly benefits from them), she was angry about the incompetence of the story getting out. Because then she had to deal with it and never heard the end of it, being pushed to 'a reaction' and other unnecessary stuff.
Merkel must have been really angry as she is a profound transatlantic herself. Obama and Merkel wanted to negotiate a free trade agreement, TTIP, which faced massive criticism among the population here even before Trump closed any windows on it.

A lot of this criticism was justified, but a lot also came from general mistrust.

The one that mainly benefited from the spy scandal was Russia. The perfect fuel for their conspiracy theory bullshit stuff.

The problem is, the memory of the public lasts longer than the daily topics in politics. Before the NSA scandal, there was the lie around the Iraq War and other stuff before and this creates permanent damage of mistrust.

Mistrust on which right-wing populists capitalized. We still got like a dozen of "Trumps" left in Europe.

So as far as foreign politics go, I think this is actually a pretty big question.

The Biden administration will have its hands full with fixing just the damage caused by Trump but I also hope they get that there has already been damage present before.


Will there be a united front against climate change or not?
Everyone here expects Biden to rejoin the Paris Agreement but otherwise to just tackle it moderately.

This could become interesting here as many expect the Green Party to form a coalition with the CDU after the next election in 2021. By their nature they would get the Minister of the Environment and as the junior partner in a coalition likely the Minister of Foreign Affairs as well. More and stronger international agreements regarding climate change are one of their main promises to their voters so it would be interesting to see wether the EU and the US are willing to put something up together. The chances will likely be there.

Will there be a united western front against chinese/russian aggression or not?
No, and honestly I have no idea what the plan is here.

The interests of the US and the EU are already conflicting too much here.

For Russia it is obviously because it is a part of Europe. Granted, with Merkel you have someone that is strongly opposed to Putin but the limits of reality in Europe might be much tighter than the US would want them to be.

Even within the EU this is a dividing topic.

And for China, I can only say what is the case for Germany but China makes us rich.
But I also think that no one has any good idea on what to do with China and there might be none at all.

Will America be a force of consensus and stability or not?
Hopefully.
 
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