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Pat

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But also, tax cuts often don't help, do they? I think companies got tax cuts and still laid off people after giving out bonuses few years ago.
According to the site I quoted, they help under certain circumstances like recessions but Trump's tax cuts came out of nowhere and was highly counterproductive in terms of offsetting the lost revenue. Apparently it will expire for individuals in 2025, convenient timing when Trump's possible second term would potentially end at the time whereas they remain permanent for corporations despite the data that indicate the reverse would be more cost-effective in creating jobs.

Apparently many large corporations even said they didn't need the money from Trump's tax cuts and instead of increasing production, creating more jobs, or raising wages, the money mostly went to using the extra cash to pay dividends to shareholders, buying back shares of stock and increasing CEO salaries. (More info here)

Ok. Would anyone be interested in explaining why china utilizes tax cuts if they don't work?
Disclaimer: I'm not a financial expert, I tell what I see but my assumptions may not be accurate.

From what I gather, the Chinese subsidize certain key sectors, namely transportation, construction and manufacturing in an attempt to fight a potential recession which is a direct consequence of the pandemic and US-China trade war. Whether or not it will work remains to be seen and I reckon the tax cuts will be temporary.

If the tax cuts was a solution to everything every time, we would completely abolish taxes and be done with it but then the government would be nonfunctional. And if this is not an option and we need to draw the line somewhere, this is the point we are trying to make by evaluating the data in hand. If you think Trump reduced taxes for the greater good, I certainly disagree with you, he thinks of nobody but himself and all economical data, all budget deficits that flow into his own pocket is an evidence of that.

Sorry if I can't reply to you anymore since I don't check the posts regularly, just wanted to put in my two cents but to each their own.
 

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Small government conservatives are called libertarians, not republicans. They're still horribly deluded individuals who don't understand the point of a country or civic obligations in general, but at least they have principles. Republicans want tax cuts in order to funnel money to existing top earners or starve government programs they take exception with. You know, like poor women having access to pap smears or regulatory bodies that exist to prevent full economic collapse or environmental disasters. That kind of useless shit. :rolleyes:
 

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According to the site I quoted, they help under certain circumstances like recessions but Trump's tax cuts came out of nowhere and was highly counterproductive in terms of offsetting the lost revenue. Apparently it will expire for individuals in 2025, convenient timing when Trump's possible second term would potentially end at the time whereas they remain permanent for corporations despite the data that indicate the reverse would be more cost-effective in creating jobs.

Apparently many large corporations even said they didn't need the money from Trump's tax cuts and instead of increasing production, creating more jobs, or raising wages, the money mostly went to using the extra cash to pay dividends to shareholders, buying back shares of stock and increasing CEO salaries. (More info here)
Permanent tax cuts for corporations is horrible, especially considering that major corps pay little to no tax.

I'm not shocked at all that's what they used the money for. Companies don't put money to good use, and I hate that they keep getting breaks and are allowed to exploit loopholes when smaller businesses and poor people could benefit more from lower taxes. It's so shitty, and just another reason why the right should never have any say in economic operations.
 

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Disclaimer: I'm not a financial expert, I tell what I see but my assumptions may not be accurate.

From what I gather, the Chinese subsidize certain key sectors, namely transportation, construction and manufacturing in an attempt to fight a potential recession which is a direct consequence of the pandemic and US-China trade war. Whether or not it will work remains to be seen and I reckon the tax cuts will be temporary.

If the tax cuts was a solution to everything every time, we would completely abolish taxes and be done with it but then the government would be nonfunctional. And if this is not an option and we need to draw the line somewhere, this is the point we are trying to make by evaluating the data in hand. If you think Trump reduced taxes for the greater good, I certainly disagree with you, he thinks of nobody but himself and all economical data, all budget deficits that flow into his own pocket is an evidence of that.

Sorry if I can't reply to you anymore since I don't check the posts regularly, just wanted to put in my two cents but to each their own.
Its not about level of experience or competence. Its about learning. Supporting the correct policy on economic and finance is important to society and affects millions of lives. Its important that people discuss these topics and are informed so they can support the right things. That's how I see it anyway. I'm certain everyone has their own ideas and agendas for things.

It seems to me that Trump passed tax cuts in 2016, which boosted economic growth and job markets in the USA. A few years later china observed this success and tried to emulate it with their own series of tax cuts to remain competitive versus the US.

"Trump only thinks about himself." That sounds more like projection to me than anything else. Senators and congressman who have net worths of $100 million are the opposite of everything Trump has done or stood for.

Small government conservatives are called libertarians, not republicans. They're still horribly deluded individuals who don't understand the point of a country or civic obligations in general, but at least they have principles. Republicans want tax cuts in order to funnel money to existing top earners or starve government programs they take exception with. You know, like poor women having access to pap smears or regulatory bodies that exist to prevent full economic collapse or environmental disasters. That kind of useless shit. :rolleyes:
I support tax cuts as I believe individuals and the private sector will make better use of capital/cash.

Than the government can.

The US government wasted more than $6 trillion dollars on war in the middle east that benefited no one. Imagine what Elon Musk could have achieved with $6 trillion. That money is better utilized in the hands of individuals and corporations than it is by governments.

Companies don't put money to good use
Based on ______?

Space X builds rockets, NASA does not.
 

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I support tax cuts as I believe individuals and the private sector will make better use of capital/cash.

Than the government can.

The US government wasted more than $6 trillion dollars on war in the middle east that benefited no one. Imagine what Elon Musk could have achieved with $6 trillion. That money is better utilized in the hands of individuals and corporations than it is by governments.
But surely there is government funding that needs to happen as industry simply wouldn't handle those things. Such as any kind of oversight or instrument of public welfare.

Still, this seems like a hop, skip, and jump away from libertarianism, taxation is theft, the government shouldn't exist, etc.

Space X builds rockets, NASA does not.
SpaceX build rockets with government subsidies. They would not be doing what they're currently doing without them. Tesla was propped up by government money during the last recession.
 

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Sanity Check said:
Attacking a person's character.

To avoid addressing a topic.

Isn't that what is known as a straw man fallacy on your part?
That's not what a straw man fallacy is. A straw man is when you intentionally misrepresent someone's argument because your "fake" version of their argument is easier to defeat than their actual argument is. He didn't even address your argument, so you can't claim he's misrepresenting your argument.

On Topic: Tax cuts for any demographic other than the rich and corporations seem to be preferable... and tax cuts for corporations can be justified in SOME occasions... like Pat is saying. It's a "sometime it's okay, but only in some occasions, and only for certain sectors."
 
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I think tax cuts for corps COULD be acceptable if they ensure that the corps won't use the money to line their top people and investors' pockets and will put it towards the actual business or employees, whether increasing pay or hiring more. It's incredibly frustrating to see them be so greedy with the money and people who aren't even wealthy or entrepreneurs defend that shit.
 

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That's the thing though: We can't ensure they won't do things like that. In fact we can be sure they WILL do things like that if they can, based off of what they've done in the past. That's why we should limit the occasions where they can exploit tax cuts to very few, very distinct situations IMHO.

That seems to be the safest bet.
 

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Well, I was thinking more like penalties if they didn't, yanno? But otherwise yeah, that's why I'm rarely ever in favor of tax cuts for them, when it's poor people that need more assistance.

Also, I did a quick research on why voter ID laws are racist because of a conservative friend on FB saying it's horseshit, and I learned something new. It is racist especially since republicans know people of color are more likely to vote for Dems.
 

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Yeah. And it's not anything new either. Analysts find out how POC are most likely to vote, and if it isn't favorable they'll do seemingly miniscule alterations to their voting means to make sure they're less likely to vote. For example:


I hope beyond all hope that we destroy the electoral college some day.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

On another note: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/us-gun-ownership-black-americans-surge

Conservatives in favor of comprehensive gun reform in 3...2...
 
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If someone said its very important for people in 2021 to be skeptical. Educate themselves. And look at both sides of the debate.

Would anyone agree with that?

Does anyone research both sides of issues. Or is it safe to say: its better to simply look at only one side and never the other.

I follow a lot of right wing personalities on social media. And I also follow enough left wing to know what they're saying. It seems to me that most are too afraid to look at both sides or challenge their knowledge. And simply prefer to live inside partisan echo chambers. Which is bad for civilization and society.
 

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Skepticism is important, but that doesn't mean you have to follow both left wing and right wing media in order to get both sides of the story, it just means you need to withhold your belief until you have sufficient enough evidence to believe it's accurate. Subjecting yourself to both sides of the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't stow your confirmation bias, because it means you'll go into media you agree with expecting to agree with it and won't be as skeptical as you think you are... while going into the media you expect to disagree with and subconsciously search for any little pedantic thing that will give you an excuse to dismiss it.

Basically, apply the same level of skepticism to every form of media regardless of where it comes from.

Another thing that helps me with my political views is political streamers. Admittedly, I only follow leftist and left-leaning streamers like Vaush, Destiny, Denims, Contrapoints, Sam Seder and the like... but, I get to see these content streamers debate and debunk conservative media point-by-point on their videos, or even live on debate panels so they both get to bring their evidence to the argument, which is then gone over on stream or in later vids (and I can fact check along with them since I'm watching on my comp or have my phone in my hand while listening to the content at work lol). And since the streamers usually stream daily they focus on breaking news, and usually go through multiple different sources.

It's also important to determine whether the person you're getting your news from is a grifter or not.
 

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I'm guessing none on the left will criticize Biden for building Trump's "racist" wall to keep illegal immigrants out?

Maybe in Biden's case, the wall is being built to keep americans in?


:toc
 

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He's not building Trump's racist wall (it's already mostly built). He's removing certain sections of it and focusing on electronic surveillance instead.


Trump's wall was just a more racist and overtly virtue-signally version of previous border control ideas. And no, I don't agree with the wall, but I do agree with the changes Biden is attempting to do to it.
 

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Another thing that helps me with my political views is political streamers. Admittedly, I only follow leftist and left-leaning streamers like Vaush, Destiny, Denims, Contrapoints, Sam Seder and the like... but, I get to see these content streamers debate and debunk conservative media point-by-point on their videos

I try to pay attention to both sides. Its very common for political commentary to lie or quote things out of context to push their agendas.





Like they did with this guy who apparently won his $250 million dollar lawsuit due to fake news being reported on him.
 

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Skepticism is important, but that doesn't mean you have to follow both left wing and right wing media in order to get both sides of the story, it just means you need to withhold your belief until you have sufficient enough evidence to believe it's accurate. Subjecting yourself to both sides of the argument doesn't mean anything if you can't stow your confirmation bias, because it means you'll go into media you agree with expecting to agree with it and won't be as skeptical as you think you are... while going into the media you expect to disagree with and subconsciously search for any little pedantic thing that will give you an excuse to dismiss it.
I agree, but it all boils down to your source. I think its important to get the story from both sides...... When both sides claim its factual, they are still narrating half of the story... Take the texas power cut for example. Dan Crenshaw had an elaborate tweet explaining why wind mills failed and renewables are not feasible making some justifiable points... However, he failed or selectively omitted that natural gas plants had a much higher shut down rate. This is because of water vapor in natural gas which froze making them unusable... Even the left failed to articulate this (most of them atleast) just calling him anti environment and blaming texas for not implementing proper protocols....

Gavin Newsom's road tax initiative was hailed by the left and moderates in california for generating revenue. But some conservative pundits pointed out that the taxation actually helped the rich and hurt the middle class, as its the middle class that stayed away from the cities and commuted into, thereby bearing the burden.

It all boils down to facts, but the narrative is always one sided. Getting the facts from both sides is always good, the real challenge is understanding where to get it.



I'm guessing none on the left will criticize Biden for building Trump's "racist" wall to keep illegal immigrants out?

Maybe in Biden's case, the wall is being built to keep americans in?


:toc
That's a click bait article.... Biden has never proposed open borders and any practical person will agree that having a secure border is important. Its just that a wall itself isnt a solution for it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

also, did anyone get their vaccines yet?

I got the first one this saturday, i must say the setup here in california was amazingly smooth. It took us just an hour, which was quite fast considering there were around 1000 people and social distancing had to be practiced....
 

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If someone said its very important for people in 2021 to be skeptical. Educate themselves. And look at both sides of the debate.

Would anyone agree with that?

Does anyone research both sides of issues. Or is it safe to say: its better to simply look at only one side and never the other.

I follow a lot of right wing personalities on social media. And I also follow enough left wing to know what they're saying. It seems to me that most are too afraid to look at both sides or challenge their knowledge. And simply prefer to live inside partisan echo chambers. Which is bad for civilization and society.
Judging from your posts, you are lying and don't follow any left wing, or you have bad comprehension skills. Majority of the right wing I've seen talk about the left have been so wrong it was embarrassing.

Funnily, I've looked at both sides and often saw the right lie or misinform more than I have the left.
 

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hokageji said:
also, did anyone get their vaccines yet?

I got the first one this saturday, i must say the setup here in california was amazingly smooth. It took us just an hour, which was quite fast considering there were around 1000 people and social distancing had to be practiced....
I get my first moderna shot tomorrow. They're giving it out at my job. Coulda waited later to get it done at the pharmacy but I'm sure there'll be tons more people there and thus make it take much longer to get.
 

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also, did anyone get their vaccines yet?
My mom and I did, mine a day earlier. Took me about 30 minutes, 5-10 if you're talking about waiting in line to right after the shot. No line and we were moving quickly, took my mom a bit longer.
 

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also, did anyone get their vaccines yet?
My stance on COVID vaccines is.

I would rather be kicked in the balls(by an unathletic woman), than take an untested vaccine that only lasts 6 months. Intended to immunize against an illness that is dangerous to less than 0.3% of the population.

The cure is worse than the disease.


:invalid

Judging from your posts, you are lying and don't follow any left wing, or you have bad comprehension skills. Majority of the right wing I've seen talk about the left have been so wrong it was embarrassing.

Funnily, I've looked at both sides and often saw the right lie or misinform more than I have the left.

Evidence?
 
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