American Politics

[kkck]

Nah, I don't think it's crocodile tears.... This is clearly a situation where stupid clashed with stupid and shit got worst. On one hand you have this stupid stupid child who thought he'd go around playing hero... who runs into a homeless person which evidence suggest wasn't entirely stable... Then he shots... And of course people see the guy with the gun and assume murderer (because that's the actual reasonable thing to assume when you see someone with a gun) and they chased him... And then of course this stupid child had to "defend" himself. There is no scenario where this shitshow isn't rittenhouse's fault along with every death in it but the law is on his side. He felt he was threatened and took his shots. This is all so infuriatingly stupid. there is no lesson, there is no silver lining, and even if rittenhouse goes to jail not a modicum of justice will have been served. This is just a shitshow and the only outcome is a stupid child that has to live with having meaninglessly taken multiple lives and a bunch of broken families. I hope I never hear of this case again.

 

[xi0]

This is just a shitshow and the only outcome is a stupid child that has to live with having meaninglessly taken multiple lives and a bunch of broken families.

Yeah... except the part where there's literally no reason to believe he regrets any of what happened or his role in it. He's been propped up by many conservative figures and the moment the case is over it'll get even worse. He was a "hero" to them the night he killed those people without any details, and now when he beats a murder rap? There's zero chance this is the last we see/hear from him.

 

[M3J]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle gets book deals and movies where he's painted as a not-so-bad guy.

 

[kkck]

Yeah... except the part where there's literally no reason to believe he regrets any of what happened or his role in it. He's been propped up by many conservative figures and the moment the case is over it'll get even worse. He was a "hero" to them the night he killed those people without any details, and now when he beats a murder rap? There's zero chance this is the last we see/hear from him.

I disagree, there is a shitty reason. Setting aside that the prosecution is stupid enough to ask video game questions you still have a presumption of innocence. And rosembaum and the other guy aren't around to testify against rittenhouse. Other witnesses aren't making a case against rittenhouse like that. You are probably right about this not being the last we hear of him but I still have trouble believing he won't get away with murder.

 

[xi0]

I disagree, there is a shitty reason. Setting aside that the prosecution is stupid enough to ask video game questions you still have a presumption of innocence. And rosembaum and the other guy aren't around to testify against rittenhouse. Other witnesses aren't making a case against rittenhouse like that. You are probably right about this not being the last we hear of him but I still have trouble believing he won't get away with murder.

Oh, I'm not say he won't walk. I'm saying that I think painting this entire thing as a stupid kid having to live with himself over what he did would only apply to a sane person put in an impossible position. Neither of those things apply here. He's going to be a very rich and very loud advocate for doing exactly what he did, the wheels were already in motion the night it happened.

 

[kkck]

Oh, I'm not say he won't walk. I'm saying that I think painting this entire thing as a stupid kid having to live with himself over what he did would only apply to a sane person put in an impossible position. Neither of those things apply here. He's going to be a very rich and very loud advocate for doing exactly what he did, the wheels were already in motion the night it happened.

ok, fair enough. We really have no certainty on whether the guy has any amount of remorse over what he did. I was thinking this could be the case as the people he shot weren't black and were mostly pretty much randos who weren't out destroying stuff. They were just there and one of the victims thought he was simply stopping a murderer.... But given the state of a certain portion of the gun crazed (and racist) part of the population what you suggest is entirely feasible.

 

[xi0]

ok, fair enough. We really have no certainty on whether the guy has any amount of remorse over what he did. I was thinking this could be the case as the people he shot weren't black and were mostly pretty much randos who weren't out destroying stuff. They were just there and one of the victims thought he was simply stopping a murderer.... But given the state of a certain portion of the gun crazed (and racist) part of the population what you suggest is entirely feasible.

Yeah but they're "antifa", and there's been a concerted effort to bring the dead's own criminal records into the conversation even though it clearly had nothing to do with what transpired that night and has no bearing on whether it was justified or not. But yeah, whether he shot black people or anteefers, he'd still be hanging out with Proud Boys and having drinks bought for him.

 

[kkck]

Yeah but they're "antifa", and there's been a concerted effort to bring the dead's own criminal records into the conversation even though it clearly had nothing to do with what transpired that night and has no bearing on whether it was justified or not. But yeah, whether he shot black people or anteefers, he'd still be hanging out with Proud Boys and having drinks bought for him.

I suppose that's true... It's a shame that witnesses don't actually provide more context regarding how the events played out that night in regars to the rosembaum bit. Is rittenhouse going to be prosecuted for the illegal weapon and crossing state lines with it? Or is that already done with?

 

[M3J]

Plus Kyle has the judge on his side as well, so even if he is guilty by some miracle, the judge will likely save his ass

 

[kkck]

I've read some stuff about the judge but I am not convinced that he is on rittenhouse's side per say. There was the bit about not being able to refer to the people to died as victims. But... isn't that reasonable? Isn't the point of the trial to determine whether or not they were victims? Add to that it's apparently common in cases to not refer to people as victims.

 

[Sanity Check]

500 National Guard troops on stand-by in Wisconsin for Rittenhouse

Governor Tony Evers announced that the guardsmen will be stationed outside Kenosha, ready to support local police in the event of unrest over the weekend and next week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Newkerzy]

I've read some stuff about the judge but I am not convinced that he is on rittenhouse's side per say. There was the bit about not being able to refer to the people to died as victims. But... isn't that reasonable? Isn't the point of the trial to determine whether or not they were victims? Add to that it's apparently common in cases to not refer to people as victims.

Yeah, pretty much this. Someone with a law degree would agree this would be the case as the court’s role is there to uncover what happened. So, at the early stages of the prosecution, they can’t really refer to them as victims unless the premise was pre-determined.

That said though, the judge is polarizing, I’ll give you that. I certainly have questions about his credibility, although it’s not so clear-cut either.

 

[kkck]

Yeah, pretty much this. Someone with a law degree would agree this would be the case as the court’s role is there to uncover what happened. So, at the early stages of the prosecution, they can’t really refer to them as victims unless the premise was pre-determined.

That said though, the judge is polarizing, I’ll give you that. I certainly have questions about his credibility, although it’s not so clear-cut either.

After thinking about it, I don't really care about the judge. What has been polarizing about him so far is only polarizing because of the attention the case has. And in the end the judge does not determine guilt. The judge can at the most give leniency. I also had a laugh learning that apparently saying "oriental food" is racist (the judge didn't say it but it also turned up in some commentary about this). It's amazing how a portion of the internet just wants the silliest nonsensical things to be racist. In the end guilt is not up to the judge but to the jurors... And in the US if you instigate violence against someone and then that someone "threatens" you are allowed to use lethal force to defend yourself. It's amazing how comically easy it is to get away with murder in the US.

 

[xi0]

I also had a laugh learning that apparently saying "oriental food" is racist (the judge didn't say it but it also turned up in some commentary about this). It's amazing how a portion of the internet just wants the silliest nonsensical things to be racist.

Where was that? It's my understanding that the use of "oriental" is generally only appropriate when referring to objects but not people.

 

[kkck]

Where was that? It's my understanding that the use of "oriental" is generally only appropriate when referring to objects but not people.

Nah, the judge didn't say oriental food. He made some joke about backlogs at some port and food that could be coming from those... But going through some articles and twitter some people were going "at least he didn't say oriental food" or something to that effect.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 15, 2021 ---

The new infrastructure bill feels like a huge loss tbh. Republicans don't like it basically because it's biden's bill. And democrats don't like it because biden bailed on major campaign promises without the appearance of putting up much of a fight and that against people in his own party. Bipartisanship for the win? At this point biden ending up being less popular than trump soon is not that far fetched.

 

[M3J]

Isn't the judge obviously biased? I saw people saw how his ringtone is Trump's anthem or something

 

[kkck]

Isn't the judge obviously biased? I saw people saw how his ringtone is Trump's anthem or something

At least as far as I have read any bias he might have won't have an impact on the result of the trial. The judge's political affiliations for the time being are not relevant. Right now it's up to the jury.... In the end the primary issue IMO is that the law and the facts are on rittenhouse's side. Because the law is twisted...

 

[M3J]

At least as far as I have read any bias he might have won't have an impact on the result of the trial. The judge's political affiliations for the time being are not relevant. Right now it's up to the jury.... In the end the primary issue IMO is that the law and the facts are on rittenhouse's side. Because the law is twisted...

But also, he can words things in a way to make KYle look like a victim, if not just innocent, and give him a lenient punishment.

 

[kkck]

But also, he can words things in a way to make KYle look like a victim, if not just innocent, and give him a lenient punishment.

But... how? He is a judge... He has control over some of the narrative but ultimately it's up to the prosecution here to make their case. What the judge has an actual effect on is a possibly lenient sentence but that's a non issue yet since the jurors are still deliberating (and IMO the law and the facts are or rittenhouse's side anyways).

 

[M3J]

But... how? He is a judge... He has control over some of the narrative but ultimately it's up to the prosecution here to make their case. What the judge has an actual effect on is a possibly lenient sentence but that's a non issue yet since the jurors are still deliberating (and IMO the law and the facts are or rittenhouse's side anyways).

Some of the narrative can be enough to help Kyle.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---