American Politics

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No, Trump will end up making America worse. America is getting worse with all the conservative values that are being pushed upon it, and we don't need that. This country needs to be far more liberal if it is to advance and become better, with some conservative values mixed in.

Affordable Care Act seems to be incredibly effective, though I've read that quite a few people haven't had good experience, my mom included.


Also, Trump's tweets on the Orlando Shooting are disgusting and shows what a scumbag he is. Also a clear sign we need to do something about gun control, as all politicians can do is offer prayers adn thoughts.
Conservative values help every be more moral and live better lives. America's greatest times were when it focused on improving the family and business. During Obama's times with his liberal agenda the country has gotten significantly worst, little to no laws pass in his administration, his promises continually be broken (where is the bringing the troops home Mr. Obama, you promised!), mass shootings have become routine apologies offered by him and he does little to do anyhing than issue a public prayer, and worst, Ive had to pay more taxes under him. Its not right.

I dont see how its a gun control issue, where the strict laws democrats imposed were legally followed in the events. Guns dont need more control people need more anger management and control. Significant breakdowns in the following of laws under the Obama administration is to blame, similar to how people keep breaching the white house mall with firearms causing panic, or how the TSA, under the Obama administration, has faced heavy fire and scrutiny with blatant failures to keep airports safe.
 

xi0

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I dont see how its a gun control issue, where the strict laws democrats imposed were legally followed in the events.
This is a gun control issue. But it's not even about enacting stricter laws for the average citizen. Why should someone who has been investigated twice and interviewed three times by the FBI in connection to comments made and links to a suicide bomber be allowed to own guns?

or how the TSA, under the Obama administration, has faced heavy fire and scrutiny with blatant failures to keep airports safe.
When has there been an incident that shows a failure to keep airports safe?
 

SharkBait

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This is a gun control issue. But it's not even about enacting stricter laws for the average citizen. Why should someone who has been investigated twice and interviewed three times by the FBI in connection to comments made and links to a suicide bomber be allowed to own guns?


That seems like another issue with personal and leadership abilities for the system. Who signed off on him passing interviews and investigations? Obama administration or the future president needs to conduct a full review.



When has there been an incident that shows a failure to keep airports safe?
The TSA failure rate http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/tsa-failed-undercover-airport-screening-tests/
TSA doesnt screen airplane employees http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/8/only-three-us-airports-require-security-checks-for/

Both incidents lead to unsafe airports.
 

xi0

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That seems like another issue with personal and leadership abilities for the system. Who signed off on him passing interviews and investigations? Obama administration or the future president needs to conduct a full review.
No, the laws need to be changed. If it is somehow legal for someone on a terrorist watch list to own a firearm license in a state only because state laws say so, then that cannot continue to be allowed. This shooter legally bought the guns he used within the past week from what I read. If the state laws of Florida somehow trump the FBI, then that is the laws that are being a failure, not personnel or leadership or any such nonsense.

I'm not a fan of the TSA, but I'm saying there hasn't been any incidents to speak of. The major acts of violence in this country are mass shootings in places with little to no security at all - schools, shopping malls, nightclubs. Terrorists aren't targeting airports for a reason.
 

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People can control themselves. Banning doesnt fix an issue when the recreational devices are harmless in the hands of competant sentient beings. If one is going to champion better control than limiting abortions which kill people as well as cars which kill people is needed. Have you seen the number of people killed by cars?
 

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Trump is trying to take credit on being right about radical Islam.

I guess the incident gives Trump bit of an advantage because of his past remarks.
More people criticized Trump because he made it about him and claiming he was right when he's actually completely wrong. Not only that, but this was clearly an attack on the LBGTQ community, not an attack by radical Islamist.
Conservative values help every be more moral and live better lives. America's greatest times were when it focused on improving the family and business. During Obama's times with his liberal agenda the country has gotten significantly worst, little to no laws pass in his administration, his promises continually be broken (where is the bringing the troops home Mr. Obama, you promised!), mass shootings have become routine apologies offered by him and he does little to do anyhing than issue a public prayer, and worst, Ive had to pay more taxes under him. Its not right.

I dont see how its a gun control issue, where the strict laws democrats imposed were legally followed in the events. Guns dont need more control people need more anger management and control. Significant breakdowns in the following of laws under the Obama administration is to blame, similar to how people keep breaching the white house mall with firearms causing panic, or how the TSA, under the Obama administration, has faced heavy fire and scrutiny with blatant failures to keep airports safe.
Conservative values aren't really that morale or about better lives. Conservatives are the same people who want to ban same sex marriage, take away women's rights, and basically take away rights and freedom of people who aren't white or wealthy. Unless you're saying same sex marriage is immoral and bad, which wouldn't shock me.

When was that? As far as I recall, America has had a history of women getting abortions or dads or even moms leaving the family, parents abusing their kids, etc.

You can't blame OBama for that when other politicians in the government oppose everything Obama wants. Hard to pass laws when your own government is so childish that they'd rather see the people suffer, which in this case would be mainly the republicans/conservatives. Actually, Obama did do something about mass shootings, but you gun loving conservatives bitched about it. And all politicians are doing the same thing, not just Obama (who actually made it harder to get a gun if I recall). Why are you criticizing Obama for issuing public prayer but excuse your republican/conservative politicians who do the same and shrug off gun violence? Hypocrite.
You should be happy because it means more money goes to defense and killing people.

According to stats, there have been more gun violence in states where gun control laws were lax as opposed to states with strict control laws. Guns definitely need more control when anyone can get guns regardless of his or her history, and they can get guns quickly as opposed to waiting. Anger management and control won't help because people can still snap. It is a gun control issue, and you'd have to be blind to say otherwise.

Sure, let's blame Obama for everything and not the conservatives and gun lovers who fight against gun control and want more people to have guns no matter how dangerous they are. The waiter in your restaurant forgetting your credit card after you insulted him for being "lazy"? OBAMA'S FAULT! Impoverished people not being able to afford college education? OBAMA'S FAULT! You living a comfortable life where you don't know anything about reality? OBAMA'S FAULT!

FUCK OBAMA!!!!1
 

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People can control themselves. Banning doesnt fix an issue when the recreational devices are harmless in the hands of competant sentient beings. If one is going to champion better control than limiting abortions which kill people as well as cars which kill people is needed. Have you seen the number of people killed by cars?
Fetuses aren't sentient or competent. Cars are needed for transportation. I don't even get where you see the parallels between guns and this.

I'm not even against the owning of a gun or changing what people can own. I think people owning AR-15s might be going over the top. But why was this person allowed to purchase a gun? You don't even need a license to own a gun in Florida. How does that make any sense?
 

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People can control themselves. Banning doesnt fix an issue when the recreational devices are harmless in the hands of competant sentient beings. If one is going to champion better control than limiting abortions which kill people as well as cars which kill people is needed. Have you seen the number of people killed by cars?
This is better. Going on what you mention, it is true that car deaths occur more often than gun deaths.


Source: Violence Poverty Center

When you dig deeper into the numbers, however, a different story is told. VPC found that guns killed more people in 21 states (and DC) than car deaths did in 2014. Gun deaths are almost equal to total car deaths, and it's only a matter of time before gun deaths eclipse car deaths.

There are at least three fundamental differences between the two. One is regulations. Nobody disputes forcing drivers to obey speed limits, forcing them to attend driving school, requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, etc. But guns? It's the exact opposite. Background checks? Organizations like the NRA do their utmost to make it impossible to keep guns out of the hands of people guilty of crimes like domestic violence. Closing the gun show loophole? Yep, they're doing their best on that too. This is normal for them. Historically gun control laws were used to harass undesirable populations (e.g. blacks) but that isn't so much the case these days. Even laws that are designed to keep gun shops 500 feet away from schools are now constitutionally suspect. On a side note, death threats are not unheard of when you lead a gun-safety group.

A second is the distinctions between car deaths and gun deaths. Most car deaths are the result of accidents. Most gun deaths, however, are suicides and murders. The best means of prevention is keeping guns out of the hands of people who are at risk to themselves and/or to others. Going with the Israel example, they reduced the suicide rate of their soldiers by 40 percent by prohibiting them from bringing their guns with them when they went home on weekends. Different problems require different solutions, hence why car deaths require different solutions than gun deaths.

A third distinction lies in myths surrounding gun ownership vs. car ownership. Why do people buy cars? To get from Point A to Point B. Social status too. Why do people buy firearms? One of the big reasons is for the sense of control it brings people, or where people think the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy who has a gun. Too bad though it's a myth.

I can go on and on about this, but long-story short: Gun control addresses gun violence and stricter gun control laws would lessen gun violence as it did in other countries.
 

SharkBait

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Fetuses aren't sentient or competent. Cars are needed for transportation. I don't even get where you see the parallels between guns and this.

I'm not even against the owning of a gun or changing what people can own. I think people owning AR-15s might be going over the top. But why was this person allowed to purchase a gun? You don't even need a license to own a gun in Florida. How does that make any sense?
Cars like guns are used for recreation, Cars, like guns, cars end up killing people when people participate in drunk driving which is currently being a major killer. Until drinking is better regulated, I dont see why one needs to stress that gun control has an issue. Lets not forget people that have run over people during parades and other events in 2016 already.
 

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Cars like guns are used for recreation, Cars, like guns, cars end up killing people when people participate in drunk driving which is currently being a major killer. Until drinking is better regulated, I dont see why one needs to stress that gun control has an issue. Lets not forget people that have run over people during parades and other events in 2016 already.
How is drinking not regulated? For the past decade, drunk driving has mandated sentencing and harsher criteria in many cases. What the hell is with you and this false equivalency? What, so because people need knives to prepare food but people sometimes stab people, kitchen utensils should be regulated more strictly as well? But never guns, right?
 

M3J

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How the fuck can you compare drunk driving to guns? GUNS ARE USED TO MAIM OR END LIVES, CARS ARE USED TO GET FROM ONE DESTINATION TO ANOTHER!! Guns are clearly part of the problem, and I don't get why people are so blind to understand this.

And last I heard, cars didn't kill 30+ people, nor do people use cars to go on a killing spree. Guns can take lives quickly and is far more dangerous.
 

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More people criticized Trump because he made it about him and claiming he was right when he's actually completely wrong. Not only that, but this was clearly an attack on the LBGTQ community, not an attack by radical Islamist.
But isn't Trump taking congrats on being right about Radical Islam issue?

Trump thinks Obama is tactically rooting terrorist attacks in America :rofl
http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/trump-obama-orlando-interviews-1.3632561

Interesting article
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-chris-christie-manservant-mcdonalds

 
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M3J

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Yeah, it's pretty shitty of him to say 'I'm right lulz" in wake of this tragedy.
 

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Yeah, it's pretty shitty of him to say 'I'm right lulz" in wake of this tragedy.
He's unabashed about doing so, but most politicians use things like this to their advantage if it furthers their agenda.
 

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But he appreciates the congrats! And then says we should focus on the threat!!!

I think. I forgot the specifics.
 

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But he appreciates the congrats! And then says we should focus on the threat!!!

I think. I forgot the specifics.
What he was actually saying is "I was right, ban the Muslims". And this incident gives him the chance to support his Muslim ban policy even more.
 

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but the way he said it was what got him criticized the most, feeling smug and all.
 

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If Trump's allowed to get away with that, then Obama sure as hell can too. Remember that a couple of weeks ago he said he's just had several names pop up on his desk. But he can't do jack shit about them getting guns for an attack. All he's gotta do is just say his (the shooter) name came up on his desk, but they can't do anything about his gun purchases.
 

SharkBait

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You can't blame OBama for that when other politicians in the government oppose everything Obama wants. Hard to pass laws when your own government is so childish that they'd rather see the people suffer, which in this case would be mainly the republicans/conservatives. Actually, Obama did do something about mass shootings, but you gun loving conservatives bitched about it. And all politicians are doing the same thing, not just Obama (who actually made it harder to get a gun if I recall). Why are you criticizing Obama for issuing public prayer but excuse your republican/conservative politicians who do the same and shrug off gun violence? Hypocrite.
You should be happy because it means more money goes to defense and killing people.
That is Obama's fault. If legislation proposed was what people wanted then he could get things passed. Since he lives in a fantasy world where he's proposing things no one wants, he shouldnt be shocked that nothing passes fast enough or even at all.

-

What money is going to defense and killing people? I want more money sent to military to make our country a mighty super power and ready for any future wars on terrorism. Spending money on gun control reform is a waste of money that is going away from military spending.

I also dont see any democrat politicians actually getting meaningful gun control measures passed. In fact I see the opposite, guns allowed on college campuses and dorms, etc seem to be gaining traction.

Anger management and control won't help because people can still snap. It is a gun control issue, and you'd have to be blind to say otherwise.
Who is snapping though? All of these major gun events are people who planned these things out. They didn't snap. It is clearly a people issue. Gun opponents ought to propose more in the way of teaching acceptance and peace, not on teaching a ban on guns.
But why was this person allowed to purchase a gun? You don't even need a license to own a gun in Florida. How does that make any sense?
Wasn't he a bodyguard, he would have had a gun anyway?

There are at least three fundamental differences between the two. One is regulations. Nobody disputes forcing drivers to obey speed limits, forcing them to attend driving school, requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, etc. But guns? It's the exact opposite. Background checks? Organizations like the NRA do their utmost to make it impossible to keep guns out of the hands of people guilty of crimes like domestic violence. Closing the gun show loophole? Yep, they're doing their best on that too. This is normal for them. Historically gun control laws were used to harass undesirable populations (e.g. blacks) but that isn't so much the case these days. Even laws that are designed to keep gun shops 500 feet away from schools are now constitutionally suspect. On a side note, death threats are not unheard of when you lead a gun-safety group.
I dont understand the point of this. Millions of gun owners are perfect law abiding citizens. There is no need to do any of this legislation.

A second is the distinctions between car deaths and gun deaths. Most car deaths are the result of accidents. Most gun deaths, however, are suicides and murders. The best means of prevention is keeping guns out of the hands of people who are at risk to themselves and/or to others. Going with the Israel example, they reduced the suicide rate of their soldiers by 40 percent by prohibiting them from bringing their guns with them when they went home on weekends. Different problems require different solutions, hence why car deaths require different solutions than gun deaths.
But people use cars to kill people either being distracted by text messaging and fiddling with music or passengers or getting drunk. If we use your logic, then the best means of prevention of car deaths is to keep cars out the hands of people who are at risk to themselves and others. Meaning, no cars for anyone that is a cell phone user, a person who may have passengers including their family, and lastly, anyone who has a radio or gps unit in their car. You see how silly this is, its the same for how silly it is to prevent access to guns to people.

A third distinction lies in myths surrounding gun ownership vs. car ownership. Why do people buy cars? To get from Point A to Point B. Social status too. Why do people buy firearms? One of the big reasons is for the sense of control it brings people, or where people think the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy who has a gun. Too bad though it's a myth.
I disagree people buy these recreational devices for fun on shooting grounds or other places for game and inland fishieries. No one in their right mind buys a gun to shoot people.
And last I heard, cars didn't kill 30+ people, nor do people use cars to go on a killing spree. Guns can take lives quickly and is far more dangerous.
Theres numerous cases and stories in which people have ran over people with cars at parades.
 

M3J

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That is Obama's fault. If legislation proposed was what people wanted then he could get things passed. Since he lives in a fantasy world where he's proposing things no one wants, he shouldnt be shocked that nothing passes fast enough or even at all.

-

What money is going to defense and killing people? I want more money sent to military to make our country a mighty super power and ready for any future wars on terrorism. Spending money on gun control reform is a waste of money that is going away from military spending.

I also dont see any democrat politicians actually getting meaningful gun control measures passed. In fact I see the opposite, guns allowed on college campuses and dorms, etc seem to be gaining traction.



Who is snapping though? All of these major gun events are people who planned these things out. They didn't snap. It is clearly a people issue. Gun opponents ought to propose more in the way of teaching acceptance and peace, not on teaching a ban on guns.
How is it Obama's fault if what he proposed gets blocked only because republicans don't like black presidents or democrats? From certain researches, the things Obama has proposed are popular or the same thing republicans have suggested (I think Affordable Care Act was one of them?), but because it's Obama, republicans will oppose it. It's funny that you bring up Obama living in a fantasy world though as you're the one who lives in a fantasy world, based on the stuff you've said in this thread. I'm pretty sure Obama could propose a popular legislation that's good for the country, but the politicians would oppose it and then blame Obama.

The money that's being spend on defense and warfare are being used to kill people and put arms in the hands of terrorists, or future terrorists that are on our side for now because of similar interests. If you want to waste more money on military, then you shouldn't whine about paying more taxes. Spending money on gun control reform would be a better use of money as it'd keep Americans safer from Americans. It scares me you think spending money to stop murder is waste.

Likely because many of them are in the pockets of the gun/weapons industry and because republicans/conservatives get too crazy about wanting more guns. Though, I'm sure many democrats regardless love guns too.

A lot of these mass shootings haven't been planned out that well, people snapped and decided to murder people. This may be a people issue, but guns are clearly part of the problem. I don't get why gun lovers are so blind to the fact that guns make it easier to kill multiple people. I'd like to see someone try to kill multiple people with knives or fists or bats as opposed to a gun.

But people use cars to kill people either being distracted by text messaging and fiddling with music or passengers or getting drunk. If we use your logic, then the best means of prevention of car deaths is to keep cars out the hands of people who are at risk to themselves and others. Meaning, no cars for anyone that is a cell phone user, a person who may have passengers including their family, and lastly, anyone who has a radio or gps unit in their car. You see how silly this is, its the same for how silly it is to prevent access to guns to people.

I disagree people buy these recreational devices for fun on shooting grounds or other places for game and inland fishieries. No one in their right mind buys a gun to shoot people.

Theres numerous cases and stories in which people have ran over people with cars at parades.
They don't use cars to kill people, those are accidents. But there's a fundamental difference that you're overlooking: CARS ARE USED TO TRANSPORT PEOPLE, GUNS ARE USED TO HURT OR END LIVES

But yes, that's a great way to reduce fatalities from cars. People who have a history of breaking rules or something should not be allowed to drive, at least drunk drivers and reckless drivers. Your comparison and examples are sillier than preventing bad people from getting guns.

No, many people get guns to shoot living things, whether deers, humans, or even foxes. Many may use it for recreational devices, but plenty people use it to hurt or end lives.

And how many of those people have died? And how often have drivers ran over people at parades or in general?
 
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