American Politics

[GrySun]

Eh not much happening lately other than the Colorado delegate scam. The outcome of New York in 4 days should be unsurprising.

And no, I wasn't going to vote for McCain in 2008 or Mitt Romney in 2012. I don't see how any Trump supporter could criticize someone for voting for Obama instead of Romney.

I was asking if you were supporting someone other than Obama during the primaries back then. Of course Romney is a mess.

If you spend any amount of time looking into what would need to happen in order for it to built, you'd see that whatever symbolic use you think it has isn't worth it. How much of his success or failure is actually going to hinge on building a 2k mile long wall where 350 million legal border crossings happen annually? How much private property does he need to take away from American citizens in order to build his useless wall? How many courts does he need to tie up with pending litigation over it? How much of our tax money is going to go to building it once Mexico refuses to give a dime towards it? How is he going to seize Mexican citizens' assets when the Mexican government refuses to pay for it? How much will need to go towards repairing it after the drug cartels inevitably compromise it?

You're looking at it far too pessimistic. There's no way to tell all the details at this moment, and there are both positive and negative predictions in regards to the wall. A businessman with tons of capable people working for him should know the value and effort of going through with such a project the best. I believe the wall can be made without too many problems if everything is planned out well. Oh and please allow me to quote you if Mexico actually ends up paying for it. Just envision it, 20 years from now that wall could be a beautiful landmark of the US.

 

[Claver]

How much of our tax money is going to go to building it once Mexico refuses to give a dime towards it?

You don't know who you are dealing with if you think Trump can't make Mexico put money for the wall.

Tump: Mexico, pay for the wall

Mexico: No cabron fuck you

Trump: Alright, sure. From now on not a single cent in foreign aid goes to Mexico. Also, here is your first row of truck filled with hundreds of illegal immigrants. Good luck dealing with them.

Mexico: Oh...wait...hold on...that not what...

Trump: Here is your second row of trucks with thousand of illegal immigrants. this are the most criminal, unemployed troublesome we had. Have fun dealing with them!

Mexico: Wait wait what are you...

Trump: Here is your third row of truck with thousands of illegal immigrants. They have no jobs, skills, education and many have criminal and drug problem. Have fun reintegrating them in your cities!

Mexico: welp.....

If you think someone like Trump can't make Mexico play ball you have no idea who you are dealing with. This is a guy who build an empire by negotiating form a position of power. Also, if there is anyone who can build the wall cheaply is Trump. He knows the construction business perfectly andd he will be ablt to work with the private sector in a cheap an efficient way not the stupid way politicians do.

 

[kkck]

You don't know who you are dealing with if you think Trump can't make Mexico put money for the wall.

Tump: Mexico, pay for the wall

Mexico: No cabron fuck you

Trump: Alright, sure. From now on not a single cent in foreign aid goes to Mexico. Also, here is your first row of truck filled with hundreds of illegal immigrants. Good luck dealing with them.

Mexico: Oh...wait...hold on...that not what...

Trump: Here is your second row of trucks with thousand of illegal immigrants. this are the most criminal, unemployed troublesome we had. Have fun dealing with them!

Mexico: Wait wait what are you...

Trump: Here is your third row of truck with thousands of illegal immigrants. They have no jobs, skills, education and many have criminal and drug problem. Have fun reintegrating them in your cities!

Mexico: welp.....

If you think someone like Trump can't make Mexico play ball you have no idea who you are dealing with. This is a guy who build an empire by negotiating form a position of power. Also, if there is anyone who can build the wall cheaply is Trump. He knows the construction business perfectly andd he will be ablt to work with the private sector in a cheap an efficient way not the stupid way politicians do.

Lol, this made me laugh.

The US gives mexico 500 mil or so in foreign aid. The wall would cost somewhere upward of 20 bil to build and god knows how much more to maintain. Even if trump manages to do it at a fraction of the cost mexico would still be better off not receiving aid. It would literally be cheaper. Of course, trump could threaten to simply use the foreign aid money to build the wall... but it would only pay for a small fraction of it. Considering the wall wouldn't even work to begin with, as in it would literally not stop the flow immigrants, the wall would basically be a monument to shame.

As for the criminals you suggest the US would be returning... Well, it would be a logistical nightmare. Not only trump is gather immigrants, he is gathering specifically criminals, even though immigrants are less prone to crime than the native population. Of course, he could simply round them up somehow and send them back. Of course, unlike the last time something like this was done, immigrants have twitter. If it vaguely resembles it the world will get a pretty quick and close look at it...

 

[Dragoon]

Lol Claver went from making good points to gushing over trump . You realize he's declared bankruptcy 2-3x times now, no?

 

[kkck]

I think he was siding with trump from the start, he was simply less overt about it.

On another note, kasich is an idiot....Well, more than an idiot a dinosaur... And I bet his fellow republicans can't even tell what is wrong with what he said.

 

[Claver]

Lol Claver went from making good points to gushing over trump . You realize he's declared bankruptcy 2-3x times now, no?

Please don't tell me you don't see the difference between going bankrupt and having 2-3 of your hundreds of business go bankrupt.

The US gives mexico 500 mil or so in foreign aid. The wall would cost somewhere upward of 20 bil to build

I know, it is mostly a symbolic thing. The logistical nightmare would be for Mexico, and a position from which Trump could push for a deal. And somebody like Trump could get creative. Start from there to negotiate something like "ok so mexico provides construction workers to work on the wall at low wage, but they get paid in dollars and they live in mexico side." And he saves tons in costs by paying less. Mexico would win with this deal because it would generate employment for many of their low skill workers. And maybe he opens an amnesty program for illegal immigrants in the US where they can work cheaply on the wall for one year and they get a path to legality. Since he is deporting a visible number of illegals many of them they scared and decide to take this chance. This also lowers the cost a lot and improves the unemployment and illegal immigration situation.

The point is someone with trump business skills can work out deals like that a politician never gets things done efficiently.

And the wall will work it strongly will reduce the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants.

 

[GrySun]

You realize he's declared bankruptcy 2-3x times now, no?

So? You should go and read up more on that topic I believe.

 

[kkck]

I know, it is mostly a symbolic thing. The logistical nightmare would be for Mexico, and a position from which Trump could push for a deal. And somebody like Trump could get creative. Start from there to negotiate something like "ok so mexico provides construction workers to work on the wall at low wage, but they get paid in dollars and they live in mexico side." And he saves tons in costs by paying less. Mexico would win with this deal because it would generate employment for many of their low skill workers. And maybe he opens an amnesty program for illegal immigrants in the US where they can work cheaply on the wall for one year and they get a path to legality. Since he is deporting a visible number of illegals many of them they scared and decide to take this chance. This also lowers the cost a lot and improves the unemployment and illegal immigration situation.

The point is someone with trump business skills can work out deals like that a politician never gets things done efficiently.

And the wall will work it strongly will reduce the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants.

Well, it would certainly be trouble for mexico , millions are sent back. If coherence means anything then trump shouldn't use mexican labor to build the wall. He has already complained about a trade deficit with Mexico (which isn't really a problem but that isn't the point), it's absurd that he would use mexican labor to build the wall, it would only increase the deficit. And how would mexicans even built it? The wall would have to be within US territory, is he giving mexicans work visas to make the wall? The complains around immigrants is that they drive wages down and take jobs from US citizens... So the alternative is to use mexicans to build the wall for cheap? Of course, trump is a racist liar cares about truth and coherence as much as he cares about his spray tan looking real but the whole thing is just increasingly absurd. It's one thing that trump lies on a campaign consistently, it is another that he would actually do this sort of thing...And what you are suggesting about scaring immigrants sounds like straight up extortion.

And even then, the whole thing is pointless and moronic. The wall will not work... Most immigrants do not cross that border into the US. The wall is an astoundingly stupid idea...

 

[M3J]

I dont know he keeps saying this when if it was truly a "peoples" campaign wouldnt he have more votes than the other candidate? He doesnt.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...linton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

You living under a rock? It's a people's campaign because without the people, he wouldn't have been as big as he is now, despite the lack of attention from media and democrats. No one expected him to make Hillary sweat the way he did.

Because the other candidate has the name recognition and the support of the entire establishment and media buying votes for her.



It doesn't matter if you like them or not the point is without them and their money the US would have gone bankrupt a long time ago and Sanders wants to scare them all away.

Yeah, that's the wealthy's fault. If the wealth was more evenly distributed, then the US would be in a much better shape.

 

[GrySun]

Well, it would certainly be trouble for mexico , millions are sent back. If coherence means anything then trump shouldn't use mexican labor to build the wall. He has already complained about a trade deficit with Mexico (which isn't really a problem but that isn't the point), it's absurd that he would use mexican labor to build the wall, it would only increase the deficit. And how would mexicans even built it? The wall would have to be within US territory, is he giving mexicans work visas to make the wall? The complains around immigrants is that they drive wages down and take jobs from US citizens... So the alternative is to use mexicans to build the wall for cheap? Of course, trump is a racist liar cares about truth and coherence as much as he cares about his spray tan looking real but the whole thing is just increasingly absurd. It's one thing that trump lies on a campaign consistently, it is another that he would actually do this sort of thing...And what you are suggesting about scaring immigrants sounds like straight up extortion.

And even then, the whole thing is pointless and moronic. The wall will not work... Most immigrants do not cross that border into the US. The wall is an astoundingly stupid idea...

He doesn't want Mexicans themselves to build it, but to fund it. And what do you know about walls to judge their usefulness? If the next POTUS says the US needs a wall, then the US needs a wall.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2016 ---

Yeah, that's the wealthy's fault. If the wealth was more evenly distributed, then the US would be in a much better shape.

Evenly distributing wealth doesn't work and can't work. There are always those who will try to achieve more wealth and those that are content with what they have.

 

[kkck]

He doesn't want Mexicans themselves to build it, but to fund it. And what do you know about walls to judge their usefulness? If the next POTUS says the US needs a wall, then the US needs a wall.

Evenly distributing wealth doesn't work and can't work. There are always those who will try to achieve more wealth and those that are content with what they have.

Every single bit of actual information about the wall suggests the idea is objectively stupid and can't wall. The wall simply doesn't even address the problem. Most immigrants don't actually cross the border that way and even then only about half of immigrants are mexican. If the next POTUS says the US needs a wall then the next POTUS is a dumbass. I am not sure if the prospect of the president of the US being once again a meme for stupid is nostalgic or sad... Maybe it will be worth it, trump is so much more meme-able than GW ever was....

No society has ever succeeded in trying create completely equal wealth distribution however economists in general do agree that wealth concentration in one segment of the population is objectively bad for the economy and people. Which is what has been happening at the US for the last couple of decades (and people are obviously worse of for it).

 

[M3J]

doesn't have to be even, just more even.


Also, if I recall, despite security and all, Mexicans are still crossing the border. Walls won't stop them in the long-term, just short term. It's a dumbass idea.

 

[Claver]

Yeah, that's the wealthy's fault. If the wealth was more evenly distributed, then the US would be in a much better shape.

People: Hey democrats, we have x problem. How do we solve it?

Democrat: The way we solve every problem: more government spending!!

People: but we are already spending more than we get.

Democrat: Easy, we just tax the rich more!!

Flashfoward 5 years. Most of the rich people left due to high taxes. Many companies moved their fabrics overseas. Lots of entrepreneurs decided to start their business elsewhere because of the high taxes. The place is actually less wealthy and the problems are bigger.

Democrat: This is terrible! IS ALL RICH PEOPLE'S FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder the US economy is doing so terrible under Obama. when your first instinct is to blame the rich for everything. The US is consistently spending more than it gets and Obama thinks he can print and borrow money indefinitely.

Just look at this to see how catastrophic Obama administration has been regarding debt:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/h...esident-leave-for-the-country/article/2560220

Look at how the debt/GDP ratio is always around 40 and then with Obama it just skyrockets over the 70's. The ratio is almost as bad as it was under Roosevelt and he had to win World War 2.

The US economy is not even growing on top of that. And you have 50 million people who can't even feed themselves without government handouts. The country is going to hell, and you guys want more of the same?

 

[xi0]

I was asking if you were supporting someone other than Obama during the primaries back then. Of course Romney is a mess.

In 2008? No, not really. The coverage wasn't the same as it is now. I only remember stuff like Howard Dean going crazy on his microphone and John Edwards shitting the bed. I wasn't "supporting" anyone really. Like most things it most often comes down between choosing for the lesser of two evils. That's why I would vote for Sanders before I did for Clinton.

You're looking at it far too pessimistic. There's no way to tell all the details at this moment, and there are both positive and negative predictions in regards to the wall. A businessman with tons of capable people working for him should know the value and effort of going through with such a project the best. I believe the wall can be made without too many problems if everything is planned out well. Oh and please allow me to quote you if Mexico actually ends up paying for it. Just envision it, 20 years from now that wall could be a beautiful landmark of the US.

I think you're confusing pessimism with realism. No idea why you continue to give this clown so much benefit of the doubt. The President isn't a CEO. He doesn't simply do whatever he wants with whatever resources he thinks he commands just because he thinks it's a good idea. If a CEO does a bad job, he loses a lot of people a lot of money and then gets fired. If a president does a shitty job, you're at the mercy of his competition or his party somehow miraculously decided not to support him (which never happens, anyone who shouldn't run for a second term usually forgoes reelection). The wall is an objectively bad idea by all accounts. At this point it just seems as if you're trolling because you think it'll be funny if he gets elected or something without actually paying any attention to the stakes.

 

[M3J]

From what I've read, a lot of the debt Obama Administration has carried over from Bush Administration. But why get mad at democrats increasing government spending but not at republicans for spending more on military so unnecessarily?

 

[xi0]

From what I've read, a lot of the debt Obama Administration has carried over from Bush Administration. But why get mad at democrats increasing government spending but not at republicans for spending more on military so unnecessarily?

The debt is a problem that transcends political affiliations really. GWB started us down a path and Obama inherited a mess, but nothing has really been done to solve that problem since then.

 

[M3J]

What do you mean? I thought that really got started under Wilson or FDR.

 

[SharkBait]

He gave so little compared to all the other candidates, Hillary Clinton donated over 10% to charity. If he was so concerned with helping the poor and others surely he would give significant amounts to charity.

 

[Dragoon]

Lol she has more money to give plus you're STILL using fox news as if they are a reliable source and not at all biased >_>

 

[SharkBait]

How is an image in which they are just showing the exact numbers with no opinion rendered *biased*.