American Politics

[shionoro]

they poll registered voters, usually....

 

[Josef]

1. If you want to bring in general political topics in don't do it here, make another thread for the specific topic.
2. Give more backing to your claims, not just: GOGOGO Trump ot BOBOBOOO Hillary for example ect.

3. Recently the media was beginning to sound a lot like 2000, from the footage I've seen, as well as 2008, every "close" race ex: Bush/Gore and Clinton/Obama sparks this debate of: Are we gonna do the primaries and elections in the future like this again? This is such an unsubstantial debate as there can't actually be a mandate on how to do the election, from what I know it's all up to the states and the local Republican and Democratic parties there? Both Sanders and Trump have brought up the "system is rigged" thing, so I wanna ask, is there actually a way to change it? Instead of leaving it to the state parties is there any way to make some Election Law that is more fair and makes the process more "fair"? Campaign Finance Reform is one of those things, right? But I fail to see how it can change the whole system, but it might be a leap forward.

 

[M3J]

Well i sure hope Clinton will send him a flower basket once he helped her win.

I doubt she'll beat Trump at this point. Maybe earlier she had a chance, but given many Bernie supporters don't like Hillary, and her fishy history is being brought up, I dunno. Downside to Trump is that no matter how much he flip flops or has shady/dirty history, his fans won't stop supporting him, unless maybe he backtracks on barring Muslim immigrants or building a wall.

In any case, I still fail to see how most of Bernie's "socialist" solutions are bad. Definitely better than Trump's as he wants more people to make ends meet and not pay out of their ass for college and the likes. It baffles me how many people have issues with this, namely conservatives.

 

[shionoro]

I doubt she'll beat Trump at this point. Maybe earlier she had a chance, but given many Bernie supporters don't like Hillary, and her fishy history is being brought up, I dunno. Downside to Trump is that no matter how much he flip flops or has shady/dirty history, his fans won't stop supporting him, unless maybe he backtracks on barring Muslim immigrants or building a wall.

In any case, I still fail to see how most of Bernie's "socialist" solutions are bad. Definitely better than Trump's as he wants more people to make ends meet and not pay out of their ass for college and the likes. It baffles me how many people have issues with this, namely conservatives.

Why do u think she can't? Trump is not better off when it comes to shadyness.
And i dont think the bernie supporters will stick by their word (and the hardcore berns are not that many people to begin with in my opinion).

 

[M3J]

Why do u think she can't? Trump is not better off when it comes to shadyness.
And i dont think the bernie supporters will stick by their word (and the hardcore berns are not that many people to begin with in my opinion).

He's not that much better, but I've seen more people and media focus on Hillary's shadiness than Trump's, and more of the people I know point out Hillary being untrustworthy... though some of them were republicans, but still. I've seen enough vocal anti-Hillary people that I have a huge doubt she'll win against Trump. Her main advantage against Bernie is the Clinton name being well known, and two other advantages are independents (many who got pissed off at Bernie supporters protesting Trump and disrupting lives) and accusations that Bernie is a socialist.

They probably will. I guess it depends on if Bernie tells them to vote for Hillary over a republican, but I don't see them wanting to vote for someone who's likely on the corporations' side. Although I'm not a hardcore Bernie supporter, I don't want to vote for Hillary if I can help it, to the point that I might even sit out this election if Bernie doesn't beat her.

 

[shionoro]

He's not that much better, but I've seen more people and media focus on Hillary's shadiness than Trump's, and more of the people I know point out Hillary being untrustworthy... though some of them were republicans, but still. I've seen enough vocal anti-Hillary people that I have a huge doubt she'll win against Trump. Her main advantage against Bernie is the Clinton name being well known, and two other advantages are independents (many who got pissed off at Bernie supporters protesting Trump and disrupting lives) and accusations that Bernie is a socialist.

They probably will. I guess it depends on if Bernie tells them to vote for Hillary over a republican, but I don't see them wanting to vote for someone who's likely on the corporations' side. Although I'm not a hardcore Bernie supporter, I don't want to vote for Hillary if I can help it, to the point that I might even sit out this election if Bernie doesn't beat her.

That is kinda the problem with only having two parties
I never understood it when people didnt vote the smaller evil, tho.

Bernie's and Clinton's politics would not have ended up very much different, because half of the things sanders wanted wouldnt go through senate.
It is not a difference like day and night.
And the biggest reason why sanders didnt have as much baggage as clinton is because he was not involved in high profile politics for as long as she was.

I wish every person in the US not liking either of the two candidates would vote for a third party.

 

[M3J]

I'm sure Bernie doesn't have as much baggage because he's not a shady person, not to the degree that Clinton is. I do think Hillary would have gotten more done, in a shady way or not, whereas Bernie would be cockblocked just as Obama was in getting a lot of things done, no matter how good they are for the society or economy.

 

[kkck]

I'm sure Bernie doesn't have as much baggage because he's not a shady person, not to the degree that Clinton is. I do think Hillary would have gotten more done, in a shady way or not, whereas Bernie would be cockblocked just as Obama was in getting a lot of things done, no matter how good they are for the society or economy.

I think that point is kinda hard to make considering bernie sanders simply didn't have much notoriety until rather recently. Well, at least outside the US I am pretty sure that sanders was at least relatively unheard of until the democrat primaries started. What do you even mean about shadyness in this context? As in, getting things done through shady means? As far as shadyness goes that is hardly the issue with hillary... Her supposed shadyness concerns allegations of her speeches to wall street or taking the side of big companies when deciding on policy, or perceived dishonesty when speaking, not her getting stuff done through shady means, whatever that means... I mean, are you implying he is sending people to offer republicans "offers they can't refuse" unless they vote for her bills and whatnot?

 

[M3J]

His fame and notoriety came from people who saw Bernie as a good person who could improve the lives of people, from racial equality and feminism to increasing minimum wage and free college. From what I've seen and heard, the support he gets is due to the kind of good person he is, and even some conservatives I know agree with that. Though, one says Obama is a good guy but shits on him hard, so....

Shadiness as suspicious activities, like Benghazi or dealings with certain industries and the likes. I'm not sure what to believe with the whole thing though, given some democrats defend Hillary being grilled for the emails and all.

What/

 

[shionoro]

I'm sure Bernie doesn't have as much baggage because he's not a shady person, not to the degree that Clinton is. I do think Hillary would have gotten more done, in a shady way or not, whereas Bernie would be cockblocked just as Obama was in getting a lot of things done, no matter how good they are for the society or economy.

So why would he still be the better candidate?
The only reason clinton is perceived as shady is because she knows that you have to play the game to get stuff done.

 

[kkck]

His fame and notoriety came from people who saw Bernie as a good person who could improve the lives of people, from racial equality and feminism to increasing minimum wage and free college. From what I've seen and heard, the support he gets is due to the kind of good person he is, and even some conservatives I know agree with that. Though, one says Obama is a good guy but shits on him hard, so....

Shadiness as suspicious activities, like Benghazi or dealings with certain industries and the likes. I'm not sure what to believe with the whole thing though, given some democrats defend Hillary being grilled for the emails and all.

To the best of my knowledge hillary is not really guilty of anything regarding the bhengazi thing. It's only pundits and extreme conservatives that really blame her of anything. The emails are a slightly different matter but her being indicted does not seem to be the most likely scenario at this point. It is plausible, just not likely.... Here is a washington post article on the issue (though it takes a harder stance than my own):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...t-going-to-be-indicted-they-just-cant-say-so/

Also worth noting, if hillary does have greater ability than sanders to get things done then that should be by any rational measure an immediately disqualifying factor. Voting for someone whom you believe has less ability to get things done really makes no sense at all. In the end of the day everyone would be better off with hillary getting more of a less ambitious agenda done than bernie with an ambitious agenda of which didn't move forward.

 

[Dragoon]

So basically: Voting for hillary= She'll be able to get some things done that benefit those who vote democrat at least- regardless of your dislike for her.

Voting for Bernz= Sounds nice but if he's never allowed to work towards his goal in full as he wishes- then what even is the point?

 

[M3J]

So why would he still be the better candidate?
The only reason clinton is perceived as shady is because she knows that you have to play the game to get stuff done.

Because Bernie seems to give a shit about people instead of industries?

To the best of my knowledge hillary is not really guilty of anything regarding the bhengazi thing. It's only pundits and extreme conservatives that really blame her of anything. The emails are a slightly different matter but her being indicted does not seem to be the most likely scenario at this point. It is plausible, just not likely.... Here is a washington post article on the issue (though it takes a harder stance than my own):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...t-going-to-be-indicted-they-just-cant-say-so/

Also worth noting, if hillary does have greater ability than sanders to get things done then that should be by any rational measure an immediately disqualifying factor. Voting for someone whom you believe has less ability to get things done really makes no sense at all. In the end of the day everyone would be better off with hillary getting more of a less ambitious agenda done than bernie with an ambitious agenda of which didn't move forward.

I think you mean conservatives, not just extreme conservatives. Republicans nowadays are silly doo-doo heads that love to lie or be hypocrites.

That is true, but many people think she won't get anything done or won't be positive for the country.

 

[xi0]

Republicans nowadays are silly doo-doo heads that love to lie or be hypocrites.

Yeah, that's some constructive criticism bound to win hearts and minds.

 

[Dragoon]

Aren't most republicans either filthy rich/well off or religious people? So I doubt you'll be converting any of them any time soon. You're more likely to convert a democrat to republican than vice versa but... agreed

 

[shionoro]

I really do not think we know anything about the inner stance of the candidates towards humanity or society.
Both clintons started out as idealists, too.

The only thing we know is that donald trump screwed over people without reason. That can be used to tell how much he cares about other people.

But clinton? I wouldnt know if she has taken any decision which cannot be interpreted as the smaller evil.

 

[xi0]

But clinton? I wouldnt know if she has taken any decision which cannot be interpreted as the smaller evil.

I'm of the mind that voting for someone simply as an act of protest against Trump isn't a substantial enough reason to endorse her. As a Democrat, it has already been proven that my primary vote didn't matter, as it has in many other states. Clinton doesn't deserve the office any more than Trump. I'm not voting for either of them.

 

[z.5]

It is somewhat of a sorry state of affairs when a candidate no longer needs to earn your vote - but rather will receive it purely due to fear of the alternative...

 

[kkck]

I'm of the mind that voting for someone simply as an act of protest against Trump isn't a substantial enough reason to endorse her. As a Democrat, it has already been proven that my primary vote didn't matter, as it has in many other states. Clinton doesn't deserve the office any more than Trump. I'm not voting for either of them.

Why didn't your vote matter? I do think the whole electoral college thing along with democrat and republican primaries being messed up but pretty much all the information out there suggests clinton has in fact gotten significantly more votes than sanders. It's not a situation where sanders is getting the votes but clinton is getting the nomination....

 

[xi0]

Just make your own conclusions after watching this. She's really no different from Trump; she'll say whatever she needs to in order to hold public office. The only difference is what Trump said in the primary is a bit more distasteful because he was appealing to a republican base. It only sounds "uglier".

Not even mentioning the Clinton Foundation...

--- Double Post Merged, May 25, 2016, Original Post Date: May 25, 2016 ---

Why didn't your vote matter? I do think the whole electoral college thing along with democrat and republican primaries being messed up but pretty much all the information out there suggests clinton has in fact gotten significantly more votes than sanders. It's not a situation where sanders is getting the votes but clinton is getting the nomination....

Because of how the convention system works, especially for Democrats. I'm not a fan of the Electoral College for the general election either, but it's miles ahead as far DEMOCRACY goes.