American Politics

[M3J]

Even you hadn't made that up right now, it still does not answer my question. At worst it would change to "well, how did they know?" (add infinitum until they run out of people to ask that and get to the source I guess). Talking to some supporters wouldn't necessarily give him that information either. At least not in a way which would be statistically relevant. It's not like he michael moored his way across trump country to figure this out specifically (as far as I know, feel free to prove me wrong).

It could very well be dumb luck.... I am just not comfortable with that scenario.

Make what up? You're there, you'd know? Are you like Hannibal Psyche who somehow knows everything Oda will do? It's possible Trump or his people knew. Organization and all can help.

 

[kkck]

So apparently trump's campaign is going to double down on the whole voucher program thing. I kinda hope this works (it won't, but hope is free) but with this it seems quite clear public education at the US is going to get gutted. So trump has not even started his term but it is more than clear that obamacare is getting gutted, public education is getting castrated and a significant bunch of the progress the US made on climate change is simply getting undone. And note that this is merely before the start. Imagine once trump is the most powerful man on the planet. What do people who thought hillary was as bad as trump say about this?

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Looks like Jill Stein is dropping the recount on Pennsylvania. But whether this made a difference or not, I'm really curious about how her voters would feel about someone who'd be considered a "sell-out".

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2016 ---

What the fuck were they expecting? Of course he lied to them. Hope these morons are proud to hold their titles "Deplorables" since it's fitting.

 

[shionoro]

Looks like Jill Stein is dropping the recount on Pennsylvania. But whether this made a difference or not, I'm really curious about how her voters would feel about someone who'd be considered a "sell-out".

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2016 ---

What the fuck were they expecting? Of course he lied to them. Hope these morons are proud to hold their titles "Deplorables" since it's fitting.

I HATE THEM!!! I HATE THEM!
I am sorry, but i had to caps that short outburst.

On a more rational note: People like that make me really angry.
On another board, i read someone reacting to 'draintheswamp' (he was an outspoken trumpsupporter before) by saying 'Oh well, at least we tried, this just shows that our vote is meaningless'.

I almost had to shout at my PC screen when i read that. You tried what? Being stupid. That is what you tried.
Not listening to people telling you that every highprofile politician will have, in some shape or form, contacts to wallstreet because those contacts are important.
You didnt want to listen to experts or just people with common sense telling you that some things were not going to happen.
And now you have the audacity to say that you...tried to do the right thing by letting someone lie to you?
What? Really?
Say about Clinton what you want but at least she didnt make lunatic promises and the direction was clear.

This election does not show that votes don't count.
It just shows why it is so goddamn tempting for politicians to lie, since the masses eat it no matter how much factchecking occurs.

And then they are not even brave enough to admit that they were being mistaken.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

On a more rational note: People like that make me really angry.
On another board, i read someone reacting to 'draintheswamp' (he was an outspoken trumpsupporter before) by saying 'Oh well, at least we tried, this just shows that our vote is meaningless'.

This is the same shit that happened with Brexit: we had people who voted for Leave without even knowing what the fuck were they leaving for, and it only took a simple research to learn their fuck up and instantly regret their vote. It's as DJ Khaled said: You played yourself.
Funny thing is that this is the same thing that Ann Coulter Cuckter said. To simply say "our vote is meaningless" is pure idiotic.

I almost had to shout at my PC screen when i read that. You tried what? Being stupid. That is what you tried.
Not listening to people telling you that every highprofile politician will have, in some shape or form, contacts to wallstreet because those contacts are important.
You didnt want to listen to experts or just people with common sense telling you that some things were not going to happen.
And now you have the audacity to say that you...tried to do the right thing by letting someone lie to you?
What? Really?
Say about Clinton what you want but at least she didnt make lunatic promises and the direction was clear.

This election does not show that votes don't count.
It just shows why it is so goddamn tempting for politicians to lie, since the masses eat it no matter how much factchecking occurs.

And then they are not even brave enough to admit that they were being mistaken.

It sure is going to be the a great start of a disgusting Trump Administration: Fucking the people, and see if they loved getting fucked or realizes their biggest fuck up. If his Administration has proven to be disastrous, then the Democrats would have a perfect opportunity to at least take the Presidency by 2020. However, that's assuming the Democrats learned their lessons and provided the American people with a candidate who's at least likeable (someone like Sanders). Maybe Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson could be a candidate (he is considering in running for President by 2020, assuming what he says is true).

But yeah, it's very unlikely there would be enough Trumpers to admit they made a mistake in backing someone like Trump. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Trump's voters still supports him even if he personally enters their houses and fucks them in the ass.

 

[shionoro]

This is the same shit that happened with Brexit: we had people who voted for Leave without even knowing what the fuck were they leaving for, and it only took a simple research to learn their fuck up and instantly regret their vote. It's as DJ Khaled said: You played yourself.
Funny thing is that this is the same thing that Ann Coulter Cuckter said. To simply say "our vote is meaningless" is pure idiotic.



It sure is going to be the a great start of a disgusting Trump Administration: Fucking the people, and see if they loved getting fucked or realizes their biggest fuck up. If his Administration has proven to be disastrous, then the Democrats would have a perfect opportunity to at least take the Presidency by 2020. However, that's assuming the Democrats learned their lessons and provided the American people with a candidate who's at least likeable (someone like Sanders). Maybe Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson could be a candidate (he is considering in running for President by 2020, assuming what he says is true).

But yeah, it's very unlikely there would be enough Trumpers to admit they made a mistake in backing someone like Trump. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Trump's voters still supports him even if he personally enters their houses and fucks them in the ass.

The thing is that people will still hate the government.
That is what they do, it is their modus operandi.

Like all the morons who voted obama for 'change' and were surprised that he is not jesus and then went all 'OBAMA BETRAYED US!!!' and instead picked trump this time (and we in fact know that many of obama's strongholds went red this time), we will see them hating the trump administration.

But they won't hate it for the right reasons, oh no. They won't hate it for their attack on homosexual rights or whatever the fuck they will else do.
They will hate it because someone who makes money of hating against the government will tell them to hate it by any other excuse (WALLSTREET! WAAALLSTREET!).
And they will follow it.
But they won't admit they were wrong. They will say trump is like 'all the other politicians' and still go by the narrative of them being the poor weak people who were fucked over without having a chance to retaliate.

This is not about right or wrong.
This is also not about people who necessarily want change.
This is about people who hate the establishment for oftentimes rather petty reasons.
And before anyone says it: No, i am not talking about people who are desperate and lost their jobs.
If only they had voted trump, he would have had had nowhere near 20% of the vote (also...are we ignoring obama brought down the unemployment rate after the financial crisis to the normal levels it has always been since the 90s? Are we still going by the narrative that unemployment got a huge problem suddenly?).
The kind of people who have no fucking clue what they are talking about but like to buy lies because obviously everything different from what the 'establishment' says must be true.

And i don't think they are able to change that stance. If they are stupid enough to think facebook posts are more credible than actual sources, then they cannot comprehend their own mistakes.
They will simply try to rationalize it the worst possible way: By using it as an excuse for lethargy.
Oh ya sure, now you say you will vote third party. Until the next motherfucker who deceives you comes along and you let yourself be lured into the van by candy.

 

[xi0]

This is the same shit that happened with Brexit: we had people who voted for Leave without even knowing what the fuck were they leaving for, and it only took a simple research to learn their fuck up and instantly regret their vote.

That's a bit of a false narrative though, isn't it? The buyer's remorse sentiment seems to mostly come from people who were never leavers in the first place. Theresa May still might have a bit of a honeymoon effect going on with approval ratings, but she said she'll respect the will of the people and won't go against the referendum and from what I can tell it hasn't hurt her or the Conservatives really. So to say that droves of people were drooling on their ballot and instantly regretted it doesn't really line up with reality (From what I can tell anyway, I could be wrong). I think a safer generalization is to say that it happened because turnout wasn't high enough, especially among younger voters. And I mean, who's to blame for that really?

If only they had voted trump, he would have had had nowhere near 20% of the vote (also...are we ignoring obama brought down the unemployment rate after the financial crisis to the normal levels it has always been since the 90s? Are we still going by the narrative that unemployment got a huge problem suddenly?).

Republicans like to bring this issue up because a decrease in unemployment doesn't necessarily mean more have entered the workforce than left it . It's not really the be all end all when it comes to the strength of the economy. It's not necessarily a negative thing either though.

 

[Newkerzy]

This is the same shit that happened with Brexit: we had people who voted for Leave without even knowing what the fuck were they leaving for, and it only took a simple research to learn their fuck up and instantly regret their vote. It's as DJ Khaled said: You played yourself.
Funny thing is that this is the same thing that Ann Coulter Cuckter said. To simply say "our vote is meaningless" is pure idiotic.



It sure is going to be the a great start of a disgusting Trump Administration: Fucking the people, and see if they loved getting fucked or realizes their biggest fuck up. If his Administration has proven to be disastrous, then the Democrats would have a perfect opportunity to at least take the Presidency by 2020. However, that's assuming the Democrats learned their lessons and provided the American people with a candidate who's at least likeable (someone like Sanders). Maybe Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson could be a candidate (he is considering in running for President by 2020, assuming what he says is true).

But yeah, it's very unlikely there would be enough Trumpers to admit they made a mistake in backing someone like Trump. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Trump's voters still supports him even if he personally enters their houses and fucks them in the ass.

Off-topic note: I've always believed that if Dwayne grew out his hair and dyed it blonde, he could pass off as All Mght in the live-action MHA movie if it ever happened. And if you've stalked around tumblr, there's a good ol' pic of All Might punching that orange tub of lard with a good ol' SMASH to the face (which I would pay him the money to do so if I had some). Of course, the irony here is a Japanese embodies the American Spirit more than any of those who voted Drumpf into office.

 

[kkck]

Looks like Jill Stein is dropping the recount on Pennsylvania. But whether this made a difference or not, I'm really curious about how her voters would feel about someone who'd be considered a "sell-out".

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2016 ---

What the fuck were they expecting? Of course he lied to them. Hope these morons are proud to hold their titles "Deplorables" since it's fitting.

It seems more like a change of strategy rather than dropping the whole thing now. They couldn't gather the funds for the recount... Honestly, I don't know what to feel about stein herself though.

What bothers me is that the whole thing is being played out as "voting does not matter". Even though trump should be irrefutable proof of the opposite, that voting absolutely works and absolutely matters (a clinton win would also have proven that though). Though I can somewhat understand why they would get to this result. As you said, they voted for the guy conning them. So their ever important vote went for the idiot who does not give two consecutive craps about them thus making their vote in a way actually not matter. Not in a way relevant to what they are saying though. In a way, democracy was sabotaged by trump.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

That's a bit of a false narrative though, isn't it? The buyer's remorse sentiment seems to mostly come from people who were never leavers in the first place. Theresa May still might have a bit of a honeymoon effect going on with approval ratings, but she said she'll respect the will of the people and won't go against the referendum and from what I can tell it hasn't hurt her or the Conservatives really. So to say that droves of people were drooling on their ballot and instantly regretted it doesn't really line up with reality (From what I can tell anyway, I could be wrong). I think a safer generalization is to say that it happened because turnout wasn't high enough, especially among younger voters. And I mean, who's to blame for that really?

Oh, I'm sure that people who voted for Leave knew what they had coming (be it for the greater good or not). I'm just saying that those who voted for Leave without knowing its impact (or what to expect if they left the EU) should have known what they were voting for.
But now that I think about it, that wasn't really a good comparison, because at least Brexit's Leave and Remain could either be a benefit or a drawback; Trump, on the other hand, is just extremely risky.

Off-topic note: I've always believed that if Dwayne grew out his hair and dyed it blonde, he could pass off as All Mght in the live-action MHA movie if it ever happened. And if you've stalked around tumblr, there's a good ol' pic of All Might punching that orange tub of lard with a good ol' SMASH to the face (which I would pay him the money to do so if I had some). Of course, the irony here is a Japanese embodies the American Spirit more than any of those who voted Drumpf into office.

Sadly, you're right. They know how to be American Patriots than the Patriots we have here.

It seems more like a change of strategy rather than dropping the whole thing now. They couldn't gather the funds for the recount... Honestly, I don't know what to feel about stein herself though.

What bothers me is that the whole thing is being played out as "voting does not matter". Even though trump should be irrefutable proof of the opposite, that voting absolutely works and absolutely matters (a clinton win would also have proven that though). Though I can somewhat understand why they would get to this result. As you said, they voted for the guy conning them. So their ever important vote went for the idiot who does not give two consecutive craps about them thus making their vote in a way actually not matter. Not in a way relevant to what they are saying though. In a way, democracy was sabotaged by trump.

I can definitely assume that her supporters made it sound like she wants to help Hillary. Granted, a recount is a good way to verify, but at the same time, it would kinda be similar to Sanders endorsing Hillary (although at least with the endorsement, he used common sense in the Political Race; endorsing a third party candidate would guarantee a loss to begin with).

Now those *specific* Trumpers know that they fucked up, but it's far too late to undo the damages he'll do. He can get impeached, but that won't solve any problems he left.
I don't think it was necessarily that Trump sabotaged democracy. I think it's more that Trump's [void] "ideology" is what sabotaged these voters in supporting him, regardless if he had policies or not.

 

[Newkerzy]

Sadly, you're right. They know how to be American Patriots than the Patriots we have here.

#AllMight2020 yo.

EDIT: Is Chris Evans an American citizen? If Drumpf doesn't get impeached, would be really nice if he could run for office while showing up in full Cap'n America gear for each debate. Then proceed to punch him (you know what I'm referring to here). And everybody would cheer for it, anyways!!

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

#AllMight2020 yo.

#RocktheWhiteHouse2020

 

[xi0]

Oh, I'm sure that people who voted for Leave knew what they had coming (be it for the greater good or not). I'm just saying that those who voted for Leave without knowing its impact (or what to expect if they left the EU) should have known what they were voting for.

The same thing could be said for a shitload of things. I think that's sort of why it's a bit weird when representative democracies pick and choose what issues to leave up to referendum and what isn't.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

The same thing could be said for a shitload of things. I think that's sort of why it's a bit weird when representative democracies pick and choose what issues to leave up to referendum and what isn't.

Fair point.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 6, 2016 ---

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/o...r-donald-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Oh boy, there goes another EC refusing to vote. First was the one from Washington State (who refuses to vote for either Hillary or Trump), now this one refuses to vote for Trump as well.

 

[GrySun]

It really doesn't matter.. Trump stomped her 306 to 232 lol.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Assuming if those two are the only ones who refuses to vote that is. If it's going to become a Domino effect where Electoral Colleges refuses to vote for Trump, then this could be a historical moment where EC actually showed its importance.

 

[kkck]

Assuming if those two are the only ones who refuses to vote that is. If it's going to become a Domino effect where Electoral Colleges refuses to vote for Trump, then this could be a historical moment where EC actually showed its importance.

Well, there is a genuine movement among electoral college voters to actually deny trump the 270 votes he needs.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/06/the...tor-goes-rogue-saying-he-wont-vote-for-trump/

The whole thing is obviously a longshot but if you think about it it's not impossible at all. Trump won the election with a very thin margin in the end. There are a few people who are making the point they will not vote for trump.... And for trump to not be president he needs to loose enough votes to not reach 270.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-rogues-trump-clinton-232195

Going by this though, there is the detail that the electoral college won't necessarily vote for clinton. But rather, since the people voted republican they are gathering people to vote for another republican rather than trump. 8 of hillary's electoral college voters seem to have already agreed to that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.fc15b23d2ba1

And according to that... the movement itself is planning to actually get all of the democrat votes to another republican. With that they only need to convince about 40 republican voters to change their mind.

Of course, the whole thing remains a longshot. But the fact that there is even a possibility that the electoral college could actually perform it's duty for the first time in history is astounding. At least there already are an unusual amount of faithless electors....

So the current US situation is this:

- Hillary won the popular vote but she won't be president
-Trump won the electoral college but there is a chance, however small, that he might not be president
- The alternative to either candidate would be someone whom either candidate already beat. Or worst, someone who wasn't even in the competition anyways.

For fucks sake the US needs to get rid of the electoral college.... This whole thing is asinine and should make everyone in the US feel insulted. In my mind the US constitution right now is literally telling every US citizen to go fuck him/herself with broken glass and if they don't like it more glass will be provided.

 

[shionoro]

What a shame mcmullin didnt get an electorial vote

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Well, there is a genuine movement among electoral college voters to actually deny trump the 270 votes he needs.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/06/the...tor-goes-rogue-saying-he-wont-vote-for-trump/

The whole thing is obviously a longshot but if you think about it it's not impossible at all. Trump won the election with a very thin margin in the end. There are a few people who are making the point they will not vote for trump.... And for trump to not be president he needs to loose enough votes to not reach 270.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-rogues-trump-clinton-232195

Going by this though, there is the detail that the electoral college won't necessarily vote for clinton. But rather, since the people voted republican they are gathering people to vote for another republican rather than trump. 8 of hillary's electoral college voters seem to have already agreed to that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.fc15b23d2ba1

And according to that... the movement itself is planning to actually get all of the democrat votes to another republican. With that they only need to convince about 40 republican voters to change their mind.

Of course, the whole thing remains a longshot. But the fact that there is even a possibility that the electoral college could actually perform it's duty for the first time in history is astounding. At least there already are an unusual amount of faithless electors....

So the current US situation is this:

- Hillary won the popular vote but she won't be president
-Trump won the electoral college but there is a chance, however small, that he might not be president
- The alternative to either candidate would be someone whom either candidate already beat. Or worst, someone who wasn't even in the competition anyways.

For fucks sake the US needs to get rid of the electoral college.... This whole thing is asinine and should make everyone in the US feel insulted. In my mind the US constitution right now is literally telling every US citizen to go fuck him/herself with broken glass and if they don't like it more glass will be provided.

If there is a good chance that the EC decides to pick a different Republican Candidate and the Democrats decides to help them out (with the ability to prove that Trump is going to endanger the nation, like what happened with Taiwan), then 2016 is going to become one historical moment we're living in.
But it's like you said, the odds are unlikely to happen, but nothing is impossible. This could also prove that the EC does work, or at least in a sense where it prevents a dangerous candidate from being the nominee anyways.

IF everything goes through and Trump doesn't receive enough EC to be president, then I suppose the House of Representatives will do their job. Only problem here is that they might still pick Trump as the nominee (which is likely to happen, unless they have a grudge against him or aren't insane like Ted Cruz).
But at this point, anyone is better than Trump (except Ted Cruz).

 

[kkck]

If there is a good chance that the EC decides to pick a different Republican Candidate and the Democrats decides to help them out (with the ability to prove that Trump is going to endanger the nation, like what happened with Taiwan), then 2016 is going to become one historical moment we're living in.
But it's like you said, the odds are unlikely to happen, but nothing is impossible. This could also prove that the EC does work, or at least in a sense where it prevents a dangerous candidate from being the nominee anyways.

IF everything goes through and Trump doesn't receive enough EC to be president, then I suppose the House of Representatives will do their job. Only problem here is that they might still pick Trump as the nominee (which is likely to happen, unless they have a grudge against him or aren't insane like Ted Cruz).
But at this point, anyone is better than Trump (except Ted Cruz).

Regardless of the scenario, it is going to be insane. In one scenario you have trump for president, in another you have democrats colluding with republicans to elect another republican. I think the main issue with this plan though is democrats actually signing up to this. They are switching trump for.... another republican. Trump is actually unintelligent. Trump is incredibly ignorant of the world. He has no idea whatsoever regarding policy, government or any of the things he generally speaks of. He has capacity to cause untold damage and effectively ruin obama's legacy.

BUUUUT......

What about 4 years from now? Imagine what the country will look like 4 years from now.

-Obamacare gutted
-4 years of carson incompetence in US housing department
-4 years of trump glorifying crony capitalism.
-4 years of trump doing the most extreme opposite of draining the swamp
-4 years of trump trying to screw over muslims, and other minorities

Democrats lost the election one way or the other. So in this case democrats would have to make a bet regarding which is preferable for the incoming elections: To compete against trump or to compete against another republican (presumably John Kasich). The best case scenario for democrats is avoiding carson in the US housing department (assuming they care about this) and avoiding the whole issues with minorities and perhaps a more sensible foreign policy. But still vastly more aggressive than anything any hillary ever proposed (they are gonna bomb the enemies until they are so scared they will never even think of attacking the US even though Bush tried exactly that for 8 years and failed miserably). Granted a few things would be avoided.... But why would democrats go so out of their way to supposed someone who is merely 10% better than trump?