American Politics

[xi0]

Four presidents who succeeded after him. IF I was talking about Jr., I'd say two. Either way, he's still seen as a war criminal during his presidency, even if he was a war hero when he served.

You didn't answer my question about who sees him that way though. Ba'athists? Supporters of Noriega?

 

[zetsu banned]

It's sort of jarring to see people blatantly reveling in his death, as if it rights any wrongs his policies may have caused. Even the dipshit that's currently in office had the decency to keep his mouth shut and sit in a pew to pay respects, and he's no fan of the Bush family. He even shook both of the Obama's hands, which I was sort of shocked by, given what Michelle has said recently.

You could tell he was just seething in anger at being coerced into doing the absolute bare minimum of public expression of respect. Being quiet and shaking hands. He was just sitting there arms folded, shoulders hitched up, pouting. Even when doing that bare minimum he still manages to look like an elderly toddler before nap time.

 

[xi0]

You could tell he was just seething in anger at being coerced into doing the absolute bare minimum of public expression of respect. Being quiet and shaking hands. He was just sitting there arms folded, shoulders hitched up, pouting. Even when doing that bare minimum he still manages to look like an elderly toddler before nap time.

I was actually pretty surprised there wasn't any drama surrounding him and the service. It's like the GOP got to him and he decided to not be a moron about it somehow. Because we all know he had nothing nice to say about the Bush family prior to him being elected.

 

[zetsu banned]

You didn't answer my question about who sees him that way though. Ba'athists? Supporters of Noriega?

I mean it is pretty easily googleable. Way before Jr. lied about WMDs, 41 pulled some serious bullshitting of his own to get us into the first Gulf War, massacred civilians and their infrastructure to gain leverage over Saddam, and then there's Iran/Contra. The apple didn't fall very far from the tree when it comes to war crimes.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2018 ---

I was actually pretty surprised there wasn't any drama surrounding him and the service. It's like the GOP got to him and he decided to not be a moron about it somehow. Because we all know he had nothing nice to say about the Bush family prior to him being elected.

"Donald it'll only be an hour. We'll have all the chicken nuggets and juice boxes and tv sets in the world for you when you get out. You can go right back to tweeting, just do this one thing for me, okay sweetie?"
-whoever in the GOP that hasn't been thrown under the bus yet

 

[M3J]

You didn't answer my question about who sees him that way though. Ba'athists? Supporters of Noriega?

People who are left and not blind to Bush's bullshit.

 

[kkck]

So, trump backed from the government shutdown... Seriously, trump needs to stop threatening democrats with government shutdowns that would hurt him politically. Doesn't he have ONE advisor that could have told him that the shutdown would hurt him, politically, than it would democrats?

And on other news, US apparently withdrawing from siria? My first impression on the headline was that that seemed like a good thing but I am not familiar enough with the conflict to know if that is the case. Any thoughts?

 

[xi0]

Doesn't he have ONE advisor that could have told him that the shutdown would hurt him, politically, than it would democrats?

He has a bunch, but they usually end up quitting

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2018 ---

And on other news, US apparently withdrawing from siria? My first impression on the headline was that that seemed like a good thing but I am not familiar enough with the conflict to know if that is the case. Any thoughts?

A good thing for Russia and Turkey, sure. I mean, there are still troops stationed in Iraq, so perhaps the necessity to keep troops in Syria isn't that high. But it does seem to come from nowhere.

 

[kkck]

He has a bunch, but they usually end up quitting

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2018 ---

A good thing for Russia and Turkey, sure. I mean, there are still troops stationed in Iraq, so perhaps the necessity to keep troops in Syria isn't that high. But it does seem to come from nowhere.

Ah, right, silly me.Of course, advisers are more punching bags than people nowadays.

Yeah, at least on what little I know on the issue it seems like a victory for Russia in that area as they get to keep their influence in Siria. Then again this is not merely a geopolitical power struggle between the US and Russia, there are lives at stake here. The US being there did not help remove Assad and it leaving does not appear to guarantee the end of the civil war either. I guess on that end we can't do much more than hoping this helps reduce the violence...

 

[M3J]

So, trump backed from the government shutdown... Seriously, trump needs to stop threatening democrats with government shutdowns that would hurt him politically. Doesn't he have ONE advisor that could have told him that the shutdown would hurt him, politically, than it would democrats?

And on other news, US apparently withdrawing from siria? My first impression on the headline was that that seemed like a good thing but I am not familiar enough with the conflict to know if that is the case. Any thoughts?

What makes you think he'd listen to his advisors? If he did that then Trump would probably in way less shit than he is now. Trump does what he does to please his supporters and make it look like he's doing something, including blaming Democrats and scapegoating them for everything. He knows that as long as he has his supporters, he's safe enough.

 

[kkck]

So, the shutdown starts.... On one hand, democrat should be ecstatic that trump is shooting himself in the foot over this. Democrats would even have pressure from their base and then some to not yield. On the other hand, both parties are ultimately controlled by their donors and they hate shutdowns so both democrats and republicans will be pressed to find a solution so to speak. Even though politically it makes more sense for democrats to just let trump keep digging... This seems like an easy win for democrats (not for government workers though) but I am afraid they just might be incompetent to cave.... On an issue where the majority of the country opposes trump.

 

[M3J]

The Democrats shouldn't be happy about this, if they truly care about people. The ones who will suffer from this are government employees, just because Trump is being even more of a shithead than usual. Another problem is that he'll keep blaming the Democrats for this, and his supporters will believe his bullshit as usual.

 

[Reebi]

So, the shutdown starts.... On one hand, democrat should be ecstatic that trump is shooting himself in the foot over this. Democrats would even have pressure from their base and then some to not yield. On the other hand, both parties are ultimately controlled by their donors and they hate shutdowns so both democrats and republicans will be pressed to find a solution so to speak. Even though politically it makes more sense for democrats to just let trump keep digging... This seems like an easy win for democrats (not for government workers though) but I am afraid they just might be incompetent to cave.... On an issue where the majority of the country opposes trump.

Trump has shot his foot many times; his ass more times and dig himself a huge ass hole I’m sure it reached China and back. Yet, somehow he is still running the country and has support

 

[zetsu banned]

The Democrats shouldn't be happy about this, if they truly care about people. The ones who will suffer from this are government employees, just because Trump is being even more of a shithead than usual. Another problem is that he'll keep blaming the Democrats for this, and his supporters will believe his bullshit as usual.

Democrats won the mid-terms in LARGE part because nobody wants a damn wall except Trump's relatively small base. The country shouldn't have a gun to it's head because of a symbolic wall. Anyway, a bi-partisan funding bill was already passed and McConnell shot it down for his master. The ball is entirely in Trump/McConnell's court and they're content just shitting on the concrete and taking the ball home.

There's a reason the shut-down happened just as Dems entered power. He's manufacturing a crisis to establish he can get anything he wants by holding the whole damn government ransom. There's a lot more going on here than the suffering of a shit ton of people. It's the potential for there to be a WHOLE lot more suffering later on when he demands more and more by just doing this over and over.

This precedent is incredibly dangerous. It's not just a battle of 'who's right'.

 

[SharkBait]

Democratic leaders should just approve the Steel Fence and reopen the gov't. They are more likely to budge than President Trump is, unlike them and their future political careers, he doesnt have anything to worry about and clearly doesnt care about how bad he looks.

We need to stop hurting federal workers and their family, and reopen the gov't.

 

[kkck]

Democrats won the mid-terms in LARGE part because nobody wants a damn wall except Trump's relatively small base. The country shouldn't have a gun to it's head because of a symbolic wall. Anyway, a bi-partisan funding bill was already passed and McConnell shot it down for his master. The ball is entirely in Trump/McConnell's court and they're content just shitting on the concrete and taking the ball home.

There's a reason the shut-down happened just as Dems entered power. He's manufacturing a crisis to establish he can get anything he wants by holding the whole damn government ransom. There's a lot more going on here than the suffering of a shit ton of people. It's the potential for there to be a WHOLE lot more suffering later on when he demands more and more by just doing this over and over.

This precedent is incredibly dangerous. It's not just a battle of 'who's right'.

I am not sure if the wall specifically is that important to the blue wave but you have a good point on your second paragraph. If democrats cave they will have compromised their own agenda for the next two years by validating a shutdown as a way for trump to get what he wants in spite of congress.... Add to that the political damage either side would suffer with the bases they are trying to appeal to if they budge. I think you are correct about the ball being in trump/mcconnell's court but I also get the impression democrats aren't doing enough to get public opinion to further turn on trump. Neither side has motivation to budge so far but if public opinion turns further from trump then the ones feeling the pressure would be senate republicans. And IF they take a budget proposal for a vote and it pases the senate then its over for trump... Unless trump is in the mood to fight democrats and republicans on this.

 

[zetsu banned]

I am not sure if the wall specifically is that important to the blue wave but you have a good point on your second paragraph. If democrats cave they will have compromised their own agenda for the next two years by validating a shutdown as a way for trump to get what he wants in spite of congress.... Add to that the political damage either side would suffer with the bases they are trying to appeal to if they budge. I think you are correct about the ball being in trump/mcconnell's court but I also get the impression democrats aren't doing enough to get public opinion to further turn on trump. Neither side has motivation to budge so far but if public opinion turns further from trump then the ones feeling the pressure would be senate republicans. And IF they take a budget proposal for a vote and it pases the senate then its over for trump... Unless trump is in the mood to fight democrats and republicans on this.

The old guard are doing their stale routine (seriously Pelosi and Schumer at that clown car podium was pretty cringey), but the new guard is slowly blooming in this swamp. Time for the old dems to give them more of a spotlight in moments like this that could sway public opinion. Unfortunately, Trump's base is invincibly ignorant, dems have no choice but to stay banded together with other dems they don't like quite as much as their guy, and the remaining third of the country will seemingly never give a shit about having a voice or even a passing knowledge about wtf is going on. I can't count how many times IRL I've heard the phrase "I just don't do/pay attention to politics" in the last two years. Apathy is still the worst part of american politics and this shutdown ain't changing it until tax season doesn't happen.

Unfortunately even the corrupt af Senate can and has passed budget bills (even unanimously) as recently as today iirc, and it's all dust in the wind to McConnell. Dude is content being the congressional equivalent of kingsguard for Trump and there ain't much the rest of the country can do. Two old dudes can just burn everything down and there's little anyone can do to stop it.

 

[kkck]

The old guard are doing their stale routine (seriously Pelosi and Schumer at that clown car podium was pretty cringey), but the new guard is slowly blooming in this swamp. Time for the old dems to give them more of a spotlight in moments like this that could sway public opinion. Unfortunately, Trump's base is invincibly ignorant, dems have no choice but to stay banded together with other dems they don't like quite as much as their guy, and the remaining third of the country will seemingly never give a shit about having a voice or even a passing knowledge about wtf is going on. I can't count how many times IRL I've heard the phrase "I just don't do/pay attention to politics" in the last two years. Apathy is still the worst part of american politics and this shutdown ain't changing it until tax season doesn't happen.

Unfortunately even the corrupt af Senate can and has passed budget bills (even unanimously) as recently as today iirc, and it's all dust in the wind to McConnell. Dude is content being the congressional equivalent of kingsguard for Trump and there ain't much the rest of the country can do. Two old dudes can just burn everything down and there's little anyone can do to stop it.

Heh, Pelosi and Schumer are too busy doing the exact opposite of giving the spotlight to a potential new guard... Which is perhaps why they seem so inept at swaying public opinion further on this.

I'd say dem's have to band together regardless of trump supporters invincible ignorance. Hillary tried to appeal to conservatives during the 2016 election and look at all she has to show for it. Shame, regret and she will die knowing she is at a minimum partially responsible for a trump presidency. And even before the 2016 election, I am not aware of a single instance of democrats making a concession to republicans and republicans making a concession in return.

If republicans in government won't ever make a concession to democrats, and trump supporter ignorance does not find its kryptonite and standard republican voters won't ever under any circumstances vote democrat then the only reasonable course of action for democrats is to plant their feet and appeal to democrats, liberals/progressives and independents exclusively. Who make up the majority of the country anyways.

 

[M3J]

How to argue like a Trump supporter:

Call everything fake news or call the person you're arguing with brainwashed from mainstream media
Resort to "what-about" even when the "what about this" you're referring to is different/has no relation to the topic at hand
Link to obviously biased or dumb videos to back up your point
Ironically use fake news to back up your point

 

[SharkBait]

Still waiting for democratic leaders to meet the president so we can get the shutdown ended. With wh staff furloughed trump is sitting there alone waiting.

I have a flight this weekend. I'd honestly hope I dont have insanely long TSA wait times.

 

[xi0]

I'd gladly wait in insanely long TSA lines if it meant preventing funding for a nonsensical wall and property not being taken from American citizens.

Now, if I was a federal employee depending on a paycheck maybe I'd think differently. However, complaining about wait times at the airport seems like the definition of first-world problems and not a life or death situation.