American Politics

xi0

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You cant have it both ways. Either Antifa is an organization that exist and have selfdescribed members. Or they are not an organization that exist. If an Antifa is just a person that believe himself to hate fascist then that is even worse as then almost all leftist violence is Antifa violence.

Have white supremacists really killed that many? In the last 25 years? By people who call themselves white supremacists as opposed to being called that by their opponents? Its not that I say your lying. But my memory is hazy. Please remind me.
This isn't a binary thing really... unless of course you think Antifa is some sort of monolithic body. For example there are anarchists in antifa, but to say that all antifa are anarchist would probably be incorrect. The rise of antifa in the US is a direct response to the rise of nationalism.

It's not just a person who is anti-fascist as their are obvious shared beliefs, but that doesn't justifiably earn them a terrorist designation. At least, not any more than any number of far-right groups that have existed for far longer.

And yeah, regardless of the actual hard numbers, far-right groups are responsible for far more deaths in the US. At least Barr cared to mention the Boogaloo Boys in his own writings, but you definitely don't get that kind of even-handedness on this topic anywhere else in the Trump administration. It's a political football to them and nothing else.

Actually I watched stream where they took up that argument, so I can lay your fears to rest. Apparently 18 years is for handguns. For long guns open carry is 16 years. He was using a long gun. (This rule actually exist so that young people can go out and hunt. But whatever.)
It is a illegal for you to possess an armed weapon while being under 18 in Wisconisn. The long gun provision is for the purpose of hunting and not much else. Any legal analyst worth a damn would say this law wouldn't apply to him given the sheer amount of evidence regarding his motives on that night.
 

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Those "studies" only look at income taxes and are extremely flawed and agenda based.

Americans pay the highest collective taxes in the world if one sums all assorted taxes to define the true tax rate.
So you want a study that measures subjective happiness of individuals based on taxes they don't pay?

Also... highest collective taxes? You mean as in the total taxes collected from the entirety of the US population is more than that of other countries?
 

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Division at this point is a massive understatement in the US. It's a full on ideological war where people just throw any term they want. The conventions for both parties made it exponentially worse and the mainstream media is not too far away either.

I know this is nothing new but it''s gotten much worse recently if you ask me.
 

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Division at this point is a massive understatement in the US. It's a full on ideological war where people just throw any term they want. The conventions for both parties made it exponentially worse and the mainstream media is not too far away either.

I know this is nothing new but it''s gotten much worse recently if you ask me.
Agreed, and I think Trump made it infinitely worse. Not the only culprit, but he's probably the worst.
 

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And most of the taxes we pay are wasted on the wrong things, like defense and warfare. If you look at Denmark, for example, the main reason why their happiness measures high is because they know they're getting something in return for their taxes, that they're taken care of. For US, we have politicians fighting against giving us our tax money back or taking care of us while giving corporations more money to spend recklessly.



How would the european union and the rest of the world defend itself if the US shut down american bases currently protecting them to cut costs?


According to this, America isn't even in the top 5 in terms of how much taxes we pay:
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[/QUOTE]
Also... highest collective taxes? You mean as in the total taxes collected from the entirety of the US population is more than that of other countries?

They don't add US income taxes to internet/telecom taxes to gas taxes to alcohol excise taxes to tobacco excise taxes to sugar excise taxes to road taxes to water taxes to property taxes to all the other taxes to derive the true tax rate.

They only look at income taxes.


So you want a study that measures subjective happiness of individuals based on taxes they don't pay?

Residents taxed at 20% of income are happier than residents taxed at 10% of income.

Is identical to.

Workers making $10 an hour are happier than workers making $20 an hour.
 

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Those "studies" only look at income taxes and are extremely flawed and agenda based.

Americans pay the highest collective taxes in the world if one sums all assorted taxes to define the true tax rate.
That's not entirely correct, checking the OECD data, "The United States ranked 33rd out of 36 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2018. In 2018, the United States had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 24.3% compared with the OECD average of 34.3%."

Also there is "substantially higher revenues from taxes on personal income, profits & gains" and "a lower proportion of revenues from taxes on corporate income & gains" which shows where the priorities of the US government(s) lie.

IMHO a state should provide basic health care for its citizens, that's why a state should be collecting taxes, health care, education, infrastructure, etc. In a study I read, it seems Americans tend to visit hospitals less often than Europeans fearing absurdly high costs they'll face. For some reason, even essential drugs for common diseases like insulin are overpriced in the US, I guess the commercial minds think "if the sick don't get it, they'll die, so they'll pay any price for it", that's inhumane IMHO.

As stated, the US also spends a lot more than European countries for military, is it a gesture of goodwill so these countries can be protected or is it for political leverage, that's a subject for another long discussion.
 

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They don't add US income taxes to internet/telecom taxes to gas taxes to alcohol excise taxes to tobacco excise taxes to sugar excise taxes to road taxes to water taxes to property taxes to all the other taxes to derive the true tax rate.

They only look at income taxes.

Residents taxed at 20% of income are happier than residents taxed at 10% of income.

Is identical to.

Workers making $10 an hour are happier than workers making $20 an hour.
Other countries have those too (or get that money from higher taxes on other areas including income)... Gas taxes specifically are very much on the low end in the US for that matter.

The situation clearly is more complicated like that. Workers who won't be bankrupted by healthcare are happier than those who will.
 

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Agreed, and I think Trump made it infinitely worse. Not the only culprit, but he's probably the worst.
Trump is definitely the main antagonist in terms of division. His tweets and interviews don't help and when the opposition calls him out for it and/or criticize him, his hardcore fan-base come rushing in to defend his every word.

Similarly with the Democrats, they say stupid things as well that create division (Biden most of the time) and that's when Republicans come to criticize it.

It also doesn't help when terms like "Bolshevik" and "Fascist" get thrown around like it's nothing. No, Republicans, the Democrats aren't Marxist and even the most far left candidate (Bernie, AOC) aren't close to being Marxists either.
 

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How would the european union and the rest of the world defend itself if the US shut down american bases currently protecting them to cut costs?
They don't need us to defend them, and we do far more damage than good, at least in the ME.

Pretty sure US still pays the least collective taxes out of most nations. Either way, US is still one of the least happiest countries despite its wealth, and that's because the taxes we pay barely come back to us when it should be used to benefit us, not wealthy people, corporations, or violence.
Other countries have those too (or get that money from higher taxes on other areas including income)... Gas taxes specifically are very much on the low end in the US for that matter.

The situation clearly is more complicated like that. Workers who won't be bankrupted by healthcare are happier than those who will.
Can confirm that US's gas taxes are lower. I think if we switched to liters like other countries, we'd still pay far less than they do.
Trump is definitely the main antagonist in terms of division. His tweets and interviews don't help and when the opposition calls him out for it and/or criticize him, his hardcore fan-base come rushing in to defend his every word.

Similarly with the Democrats, they say stupid things as well that create division (Biden most of the time) and that's when Republicans come to criticize it.

It also doesn't help when terms like "Bolshevik" and "Fascist" get thrown around like it's nothing. No, Republicans, the Democrats aren't Marxist and even the most far left candidate (Bernie, AOC) aren't close to being Marxists either.
Yep, and call me a hypocrite, but it's sad to see how divisive all sides are.
 

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Yep, and call me a hypocrite, but it's sad to see how divisive all sides are.
That's politics for ya.
 

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How the hell did you reply so quickly?

But yeah. When I was a centrist, I saw republicans mostly do a lot of that dividing and identity politics, and it pushed me further left, especially with the way they defended guns, cops, and whatnot. Didn't help that whenever I fact checked most things they said, it was often not true. Even Dems didn't lie that much.
 

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How the hell did you reply so quickly?

But yeah. When I was a centrist, I saw republicans mostly do a lot of that dividing and identity politics, and it pushed me further left, especially with the way they defended guns, cops, and whatnot. Didn't help that whenever I fact checked most things they said, it was often not true. Even Dems didn't lie that much.
I'm a quick reply. I should get a badge.

I'm going to assume you're a SocDem from the way you talk.
 

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Division at this point is a massive understatement in the US. It's a full-on ideological war where people just throw any term they want. The conventions for both parties made it exponentially worse and the mainstream media is not too far away either.

I know this is nothing new but it''s gotten much worse recently if you ask me.
It's a positive feedback loop with seemingly no escape. It might as well be a battle for the soul of a nation that just ends up splitting it up Soviet-style.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

What have you been smoking? Zero deaths from Antifa? You do realize that there is an Antifa fueled riot that has been going on for months by now and have killed 32 people right? I mean it is hard to tell if the people were killed by real Antifa or just a normal deranged leftist that believes the same things. (Antifa have no member rolls) But at least some of the deaths are definitely Antifas doing. Like the shootings in the CHAZ, Seattle. At least two black people were killed by the leftist occupants. The first one, the murderer is unknown. But the second one was definitely killed by Antifa. He was a 16 year old black kid who had stolen a car with his brother and was driving it to CHAZ because he though he would be safe there from the cops. Unfortunately, the John Brown Gun Club (A branch of Antifa) that handled security for the CHAZ though that the high speed car was an enemy attack and shot more than 300 bullets at the car. Killing the driver and heavily injuring the younger brother. He might yet survive the five bullets that hit him. Maybe. But its also possible that Antifa have killed more black people in the last months than the police have. So who should BLM have beef with again?

Remember when you hear from leftists that they want to defund the police and replace them with community policing. These are the kind of community police that they have in mind. That shoots with machine guns at anything that looks scary and takes responsibility for nothing.

Also, lets not forget the big cahuna himself, Connor Betts. He is an Antifa member who went on a killing spree murdering 17 people! https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/dayton-shooter-may-be-antifas-first-mass-killer/

I could probably find a lot more if I googled it. These are just the ones from the top of my head. How is it you state that they have 0 kills? Because of fake news obviously. You need to find less biased news sources.


No! Horse shoes, not even once! You completely missed my point. Sargon's stupid Horseshoe theory states that left and right are like a ring and meets in the extremes. I on the other hand think the entire left-right mental construct is stupid as hell. Its more like a haystack or an amorphous blob where many political ideologies relates to one another in a myriad of ways. Unfortunately, with a two part system these ideologies have to make unholy alliances with one another in order to squeeze in to one or both of the parties. And outside observers may be led to think that everyone in a party is there for the same reasons. If one party have one misbehaving group in it then the other party will make its best to paint that group as being representative of the whole part.



Wait? Why are you both using the argument that he traveled across state lines to pick a fight? Thats a very strange line to come up with independently?

Look I know whats happening here. You people are being lied to! It is true in the most technical sense that he did travel across state lines. But you must also understand that the city of Kenosha lies right at the border between Wisconsin and Illinois. This guy technically lives in Illinois, but its just 20 minutes between his home and the place the shootings took place and Kenosha is the closest town to were he lives so he is probably there all the time. So why does leftist media make a fuss about him crossing state lines? I'm not a lawyer so I dont know if there are any special laws preventing legal weapons from moving between states with their owners. I've never heard of it. But no, I think they make a fuss about it in order to fool their readers in to thinking that this guy came from far away maybe from a racist enclave in the south? This is called a "lie by omission". They only tell you part of the truth in order to make you deliberately misunderstand. And then they dont correct the mistake.

And about fear of looting. I think you both gravely misunderstand how much looting and destruction is actually going on. Again its because leftist publication lie by omission and dont explain it. Here is an article from a local paper in Minneapolis that describes the damages from the riots there up until July 13. They counted 1500!!! different companies that had been vandalized and looted! And they even have a map over it! And this is just the looting in one city! The riots have been ongoing all over the country for another 46 days since!

Also, have you maybe considered that the people that runs and work and shop in these companies dont want to see them gone? That they sympathize with the victims being attacked by fascists and want to protect them? And if the looters really dont want to get shot they could just stop looting and destroying and just go home you know. There would not not even be a conflict if one side did not move up and attack the defenders. If they had just gone home he militia would just stand there and talk about football or something. No one would be harmed.


There are people on the right out there that might fit this description. But not me. I'm always very deliberate in my use of words. And I even wrote a long definition of what is and is not socialism up above. Please read it if you missed.
I did not know that he lived this close, Kenosha being his community and after having read his lawyer's statement things have become at least in part more clear. The "state-crossing" certainly came across as in " he travelled there from afar to fight". Wouldn't be anything new seeing how many Antifa rioters get arrested far away from where they supposedly live.

Regarding the fear of looting I certainly don't sympathize with the rioters. Insurances don't cover riots as they are "higher power" and these poor people lose everything with no chance of restitution or justice since those assholes who burned down their shop will not be held accountable, more likely bailed out by "insert celebrity" and then set back on the streets again. I absolutely understand the need to protect your property even if it is by force, deadly if necessary.
 

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I'm a quick reply. I should get a badge.

I'm going to assume you're a SocDem from the way you talk.
No idea, but I don't like Democrats, I see them as almost the same as Republicans but with the awareness that pretending to care about social issues is what'll get them support, whereas Republicans can openly screw America and still get support.

Regarding the fear of looting I certainly don't sympathize with the rioters. Insurances don't cover riots as they are "higher power" and these poor people lose everything with no chance of restitution or justice since those assholes who burned down their shop will not be held accountable, more likely bailed out by "insert celebrity" and then set back on the streets again. I absolutely understand the need to protect your property even if it is by force, deadly if necessary.
In some cases, protesters have set up GoFundMes for business owners affected by riots and have even volunteered to clean up the affected stores. From the videos and BLM protesters' own accounts, the riots are usually committed by people not related to the protests, and often done by white people.

Some business owners have said that they're okay with their property burning up if it means preventing Black lives from being lost to police violence.
 

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No idea, but I don't like Democrats, I see them as almost the same as Republicans but with the awareness that pretending to care about social issues is what'll get them support, whereas Republicans can openly screw America and still get support.
Those Democrats that you're talking about are corporate Democrats.

People like AOC, Bernie and such are SocDem. It's what the Nords practice. Capitalism with heavy regulation, social programs, and has a bit of leftist influence.
 

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No idea, but I don't like Democrats, I see them as almost the same as Republicans but with the awareness that pretending to care about social issues is what'll get them support, whereas Republicans can openly screw America and still get support.



In some cases, protesters have set up GoFundMes for business owners affected by riots and have even volunteered to clean up the affected stores. From the videos and BLM protesters' own accounts, the riots are usually committed by people not related to the protests, and often done by white people.
Nobody said anything about black people being the only ones who destroy stuff. The country is 63% white while the black population makes up only 13%. If it was only black people protesting it would be a drop in the bucket. You can not say riots are unrelated to the protests if those protests become riots and you have BLM activists explicitly excusing the looting in interviews as some form of reparations. Also so many rioters getting bailed out again and again.

Some cases of GoFundMe's do not fix the tens of millions of dollars in damage per city (Chicago alone 60million+). Also from people donating money to getting anything up and running again, there are a lot of steps in-between and many of these people absolutely depend on their businesses after months of Corona shutdown. Not to mention the emotional pain that this loss can mean. Always makes me remember this tragic video.




Some business owners have said that they're okay with their property burning up if it means preventing Black lives from being lost to police violence.
To me, that is absolutely batshit crazy. How in the world does their basis for income being destroyed prevent violent felons from resisting arrest and getting shot? This is some crazy amount of brainwashing that I just can not fathom.
 

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Those Democrats that you're talking about are corporate Democrats.

People like AOC, Bernie and such are SocDem. It's what the Nords practice. Capitalism with heavy regulation, social programs, and has a bit of leftist influence.
Yes, didn't I mention Denmark had one of the highest happiness rate in the world? Most of the money paid by taxpayers go back to them in some ways, whereas in the US that rarely happens.

Main thing that separates me from SocDem though is that I'm okay with the concept of billionaires, but only if no one is homeless, goes hungry, or struggles to make ends meet.

i thought you were a hardcore democrat!
eww no, I'm an independent leftist

Nobody said anything about black people being the only ones who destroy stuff. The country is 63% white while the black population makes up only 13%. If it was only black people protesting it would be a drop in the bucket. You can not say riots are unrelated to the protests if those protests become riots and you have BLM activists explicitly excusing the looting in interviews as some form of reparations. Also so many rioters getting bailed out again and again.

Some cases of GoFundMe's do not fix the tens of millions of dollars in damage per city (Chicago alone 60million+). Also from people donating money to getting anything up and running again, there are a lot of steps in-between and many of these people absolutely depend on their businesses after months of Corona shutdown. Not to mention the emotional pain that this loss can mean. Always makes me remember this tragic video.






To me, that is absolutely batshit crazy. How in the world does their basis for income being destroyed prevent violent felons from resisting arrest and getting shot? This is some crazy amount of brainwashing that I just can not fathom.
Out of curiosity, are you Black? I'm not but I'm basically repeating what I've seen Black activists and protesters say.

It's more batshit crazy to justify Black people being shot just because of their past. Since when were cops executioners? The only time they should shoot anyone is if the person is an actual danger, not because they're scared. No one is going to feel bad for someone who gets shot by a cop because he lunged at the cop or whipped out a gun.

Er, no one ever brings up white rioters or looters doing anything, they just blame BLM protesters for any and everything but ignore anything good they do. And if the Black population makes up 13%, then that's even worse as there's a higher % of them being killed by cops. There are videos of cops trying to calm down dangerous white people who have weapons while they have no problem shooting Black people.

BLM activists as far as I know excused looting anti-Black stores or stores with history of racism, like Gucci. Otherwise more often than not, the only relation riots have to protests is that rioters are using protests as smokescreen, whether undercover cops to undermine BLM protests and make it look bad or rioters and looters just wanting to cause damage and get free stuff.

As I mentioned, the media for the most part don't want to cover the protests fairly, they try to make it look bad or undermine it.
 

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Yes, didn't I mention Denmark had one of the highest happiness rate in the world? Most of the money paid by taxpayers go back to them in some ways, whereas in the US that rarely happens.
Yea the Nords have the highest rates of happiness and living standards in the world.

Main thing that separates me from SocDem though is that I'm okay with the concept of billionaires, but only if no one is homeless, goes hungry, or struggles to make ends meet.
Billionaires still exist under SocDem. Switzerland has more billionaires per capita than the US.
 

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Yea the Nords have the highest rates of happiness and living standards in the world.



Billionaires still exist under SocDem. Switzerland has more billionaires per capita than the US.
Yes thank you for reconfirming that.

Bernie and I believe few others want to get rid of the billionaire class though. I'm not against or for the idea, I just want their and the government's priority to help the most vulnerable and poor before anything else. Not to mention, they benefit more from doing that as it means more money can move.
 
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